Author Topic: Fun Finds v5.0  (Read 314361 times)

Offline TiaC

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Re: Fun Finds v5.0
« Reply #100 on: October 16, 2013, 01:14:52 AM »
Menta cyclopeans (Dragon 323, p95) get a similar ability.  In an inversion of the normal function of augery, it works on others and not on yourself.  You get it three times a day, but you can only use it on any given creature once each day.
They're also a LA +0 giant, and so allow for a LA +0 Primordial Giant character.

Offline Mithril Leaf

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Re: Fun Finds v5.0
« Reply #101 on: October 16, 2013, 02:11:52 AM »
Menta cyclopeans (Dragon 323, p95) get a similar ability.  In an inversion of the normal function of augery, it works on others and not on yourself.  You get it three times a day, but you can only use it on any given creature once each day.
They're also a LA +0 giant, and so allow for a LA +0 Primordial Giant character.

Actually, despite being much more giant blooded than the Half-Giant, they are in fact humanoids.

Offline Lunarambling

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Re: Fun Finds v5.0
« Reply #102 on: October 16, 2013, 02:55:02 PM »
Is there an online source for the Menta Cyclopean?

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Fun Finds v5.0
« Reply #103 on: October 16, 2013, 05:38:55 PM »
It says AS THE SPELL for that feat. Here is the exact wording:

Unseen [General]
Provided you remain perfectly still you can hide in plain sight. Through some perplexing trick of the light or the mind, other creatures seem to simply overlook you.
Prerequisites:

Skill Focus Bluff, Skill Focus Hide.

Benefit: Whenever you are not being observed, you can conceal yourself as a free action, making yourself invisible as though effected by the spell Invisibility. You can take no actions while concealed, including moving or talking. The effect lasts as long as you take no actions. This is an extraordinary ability, though See Invisibility, True Sight, and similar spells will reveal your presence. In all other respects this ability it is treated as a glamer, and may be disbelieved.

So. Somehow it acts like a spell. But isn't a spell. And can be used in an Anti-Magic Field. Very Interesting.

... kinda like the 2nd level psi power Cloud Mind.
But way better.
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Offline Mithril Leaf

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Re: Fun Finds v5.0
« Reply #104 on: October 16, 2013, 10:27:20 PM »
The Hallowed Witch from Van Richten's Arsenal is interesting in that it advances the caster level of all your other classes. The features are kinda boring, but you can get awaken as an SLA which is kinda fun.

Also, the Philosophical Alchemy is pretty much really awesome as an entire subsystem, primarily for E6. The earlier mentioned Enlightened Child can be the recipient of a soul, and is a solid route to immortality. You get a permanently young body of one of many corporeal types, and it acts as if you were reincarnated into it. In E6, it's one of the cooler ways to raise the dead. And of course, the cheaper Ice Assassin stuff.

Offline JaronK

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Re: Fun Finds v5.0
« Reply #105 on: October 17, 2013, 11:11:31 AM »
Ugh, people keep calling that spell Ice Assassin.  It's not.  It lasts 1 round per caster level.  A good spell?  Yes.  But nothing like ice assassin!  I swear, it's like calling Alter Self "a low level Planar Binding".

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Offline Mithril Leaf

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Re: Fun Finds v5.0
« Reply #106 on: October 17, 2013, 12:19:01 PM »
Ugh, people keep calling that spell Ice Assassin.  It's not.  It lasts 1 round per caster level.  A good spell?  Yes.  But nothing like ice assassin!  I swear, it's like calling Alter Self "a low level Planar Binding".

JaronK

I called no spell Ice Assassin. I called a ritual in Van Ritchen's Arsenal that lets you create a templated copy of something that's totally under your control for a few thousand gold cheaper Ice Assassin. Ravenloft, not your beloved KoK Jaron, don't worry.

Offline JaronK

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Re: Fun Finds v5.0
« Reply #107 on: October 17, 2013, 01:14:25 PM »
I called no spell Ice Assassin. I called a ritual in Van Ritchen's Arsenal that lets you create a templated copy of something that's totally under your control for a few thousand gold cheaper Ice Assassin. Ravenloft, not your beloved KoK Jaron, don't worry.

Ah!  Yes, I thought this was that Out of the Mirror spell again.  So is Enlightened Child the ritual you meant?  That wasn't clear... I don't actually have this book.

I don't know why everyone thinks I love KoK though.  I just found a few neat spells I liked in it and objected to the idea that it's so much worse (balance wise) than any other setting.  This is going to be like the "JaronK loves Factotums above all other classes!" thing again, isn't it?

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Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Fun Finds v5.0
« Reply #108 on: October 17, 2013, 01:31:20 PM »
This is going to be like the "JaronK loves Factotums above all other classes!" thing again, isn't it?
Things are what you choose to make them appear to be.

Offline JaronK

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Re: Fun Finds v5.0
« Reply #109 on: October 17, 2013, 01:46:45 PM »
Things are what you choose to make them appear to be.

Nah, it's just that some folks see the world in black and white.  If you defend something and say it's not literally the worst ever, you must love it.  If you criticize something and claim it's not the best, you must hate it.  I was only said to love Factotums above all things because I disagreed with the claims that they were incredibly weak... as I recall, I was disagreeing with Ubernoob's claims that Rogues were far stronger and that Factotums were terribly weak, a statement that now is considered absolutely foolish.  And I showed at the time why it was foolish (seriously, you have flexible spell casting, the ability to play havoc with the action economy, and on demand skill use!). 

Same deal here, really. I have never claimed to love KoK, not once.  I simply said it wasn't the most unbalanced setting ever to the point of unusability (I believe I said most of it was pretty weak, but there were a few really powerful things in it, and that I thought it was like most settings in that regard).  And I think that's still true... some of it is stupidly good (the surprise spell is I think the winner there for most ridiculous option).  Other bits are cool and worth using (I like that they have a martial weapon Pike, for example, and some of the spells are pretty neat.  The scalable spells have a lot of potential).  Other bits are basically trash (most of the PrCs).  The same can be said of most settings.

But since one person claimed it was basically the setting that showed that non WotC sources are terribly balanced and that using it at all is lazy optimization, and I said that wasn't the case, I must love it.  In actuality, I think it's just another source of material worth considering a look at.

Basic black and white thinking.

JaronK

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Fun Finds v5.0
« Reply #110 on: October 17, 2013, 05:31:36 PM »
I think it's just the way "I love KoK" rolls off the tongue ...  :P ... (inappropriate smiley face)
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Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Fun Finds v5.0
« Reply #111 on: October 17, 2013, 05:36:10 PM »
The Hallowed Witch from Van Richten's Arsenal is interesting in that it advances the caster level of all your other classes.
Huh, a few levels could be useful in a CL build
like Bauglir's unfinished CL guide back at BG.
At least 1 level with a major bloodline (of course).

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The features are kinda boring, but you can get awaken as an SLA which is kinda fun.
My kitty avatar don't usually work that cheap, but ...
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Offline Maat Mons

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Re: Fun Finds v5.0
« Reply #112 on: October 17, 2013, 05:40:27 PM »
I was quite surprised when I found this item (in Dungeon 126, on page 95). 

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Torque of Lucid Raging

Crafted by savage shamans for use by barbarian commanders, these thick metal chokers allow raging wearers to retain a measure of control despite their battle frenzy. This magic item only aids characters with the rage extraordinary ability. Those that rage while wearing this item are not restricted in the use of skills, feats, or abilities they possess. Thus, a barbarian who rages while wearing a torque of lucid raging can use all skills, any feat, and any ability requiring patience or concentration, as well as can cast any spell and activate any magic item (as long as he possesses such skills, feats, or abilities) as if he were not raging. A torque of lucid raging uses the same space as a magic necklace.

Moderate enchantment; CL 7; Craft Wondrous Item, calm emotions; Price: 9,000 gp; Weight 1 lb.

Finally, a way to cast spells while raging.  This is perfect for rage cleric (Dragon 333, p86). 

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Fun Finds v5.0
« Reply #113 on: October 17, 2013, 05:48:37 PM »
... or Rage Mage.
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Offline TiaC

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Re: Fun Finds v5.0
« Reply #114 on: October 17, 2013, 05:50:03 PM »
Menta cyclopeans (Dragon 323, p95) get a similar ability.  In an inversion of the normal function of augery, it works on others and not on yourself.  You get it three times a day, but you can only use it on any given creature once each day.
They're also a LA +0 giant, and so allow for a LA +0 Primordial Giant character.

Actually, despite being much more giant blooded than the Half-Giant, they are in fact humanoids.
Well, damn. I guess I'll have to stick to dropping out of the Half-Giant racial class from CompPsi after the first level to get my LA +0 giant.

Offline JaronK

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Re: Fun Finds v5.0
« Reply #115 on: October 17, 2013, 07:39:33 PM »
I think it's just the way "I love KoK" rolls off the tongue ...  :P ... (inappropriate smiley face)

Well, that's fair.

JaronK

Offline TuggyNE

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Re: Fun Finds v5.0
« Reply #116 on: October 18, 2013, 12:49:44 AM »
You run into the invisible guy, thus triggering the will save.

But... invisibility does not work that way, was my point. Its save is not "Will disbelief (if interacted with)" but "Will negates (harmless) or Will negates (harmless, object)", which is entirely different.
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Offline Bauglir

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Re: Fun Finds v5.0
« Reply #117 on: October 18, 2013, 01:54:57 AM »
You run into the invisible guy, thus triggering the will save.

But... invisibility does not work that way, was my point. Its save is not "Will disbelief (if interacted with)" but "Will negates (harmless) or Will negates (harmless, object)", which is entirely different.
Aye, but the feat adds additional rules, likely because the author doesn't know how the spell works and thought it was clarification. So now its save is "Will negates (harmless) or Will negates (harmless, object) or Will disbelief (if interacted with)".

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Fun Finds v5.0
« Reply #118 on: October 18, 2013, 12:26:10 PM »
Nah, it's just that some folks see the world in black and white.  If you defend something and say it's not literally the worst ever, you must love it.  If you criticize something and claim it's not the best, you must hate it.
Far from it. Recall you jumped into defending KoK's content. Then in humor of the attempt to optimize KoK material you posted a whole thread dedicated to it. to which I quickly requoted what's been said before and each and every single one of those were rebuttal or ignored because you couldn't find a way to comment about them. That's not optimizing KoK content, that's trolling to defend. And just now you read the words "The Hallowed Witch from Van Richten's Arsenal" & "Philosophical Alchemy" and instantly jump in citing KoK's Off the Mirror isn't broken as all fracking get out because Ice Assassin. Like that's some how an excuse, like you need to defend KoK, like what the hell are you even doing? Randomly poping into threads to continue a KoK defense, that's what.

And I don't know if you're aware of this or not, but you've always been like that. You argue the finest strawman across multiple threads because you think that if one of those elements (IC>OtM, ps it's not) some how utterly invalidates the main scope of things (OtM is the f'ing shit). And you do this to such an extent that three or four pages of threads later you still cannot even bring your self to comment that OtM is even a decent Spell, it's weaker than Ice Assassin is your only comment and you will randomly pop into threads just to argue that.

The devision of black and white comes from you.

I think it's just the way "I love KoK" rolls off the tongue ...  :P ... (inappropriate smiley face)
:lol

And in that I'm reminded of offering people jobs planting tulips...

Offline JaronK

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Re: Fun Finds v5.0
« Reply #119 on: October 18, 2013, 02:26:27 PM »
Nah, it's just that some folks see the world in black and white.  If you defend something and say it's not literally the worst ever, you must love it.  If you criticize something and claim it's not the best, you must hate it.
Far from it. Recall you jumped into defending KoK's content.

I defended against the claim that it was so bad as to make it lazy optimizing to ever use anything from it.  I defended against the claim that it was so bad that it was the very reason why third party material isn't trusted.  That's not saying you love something.  I then went on to say it was kinda like most other settings, with some broken stuff and a lot of weak stuff.  I said it was a lot like core that way.  That's... true.

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Then in humor of the attempt to optimize KoK material you posted a whole thread dedicated to it. to which I quickly requoted what's been said before and each and every single one of those were rebuttal or ignored because you couldn't find a way to comment about them.   That's not optimizing KoK content, that's trolling to defend.

You clearly hadn't read much of what you just copypasta'd.  Much of it didn't work as claimed.  Some things did, which I left to stand.  If you put up simply wrong material, don't get surprised when someone just tells you as much.  And a lot of what you copied wasn't nearly as strong as implied in addition to being wrong, like that feat chain that just lets you force will saves or enemies flee... at a really low DC, and it was mind affecting, making it nearly useless at higher levels.

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And just now you read the words "The Hallowed Witch from Van Richten's Arsenal" & "Philosophical Alchemy" and instantly jump in citing KoK's Off the Mirror isn't broken as all fracking get out because Ice Assassin. Like that's some how an excuse, like you need to defend KoK, like what the hell are you even doing? Randomly poping into threads to continue a KoK defense, that's what.

Again, I never said it wasn't powerful, I said it wasn't ice assassin (because it's nothing like that).  I even straight up said that comparing it to ice assassin is like saying Alter Self was like Planar Binding... notice how those are both overpowered spells.  And since the last thing we'd been talking about where someone vaguely mentioned ice assassin was that spell, it's natural to assume when someone does the same thing that they're also talking about that spell.

It's not defending Kalamar to say that Off the Mirror is overpowered but not like Ice Assassin, any more than it's defending core to say that Alter Self is overpowered but not like Planar Binding or that Planar binding is overpowered but not like Shapechange.  Face it, they're dramatically different spells, and your original claim about Ice Assassin only came about because you read it online somewhere and had never seen the spell itself.

Quote
And I don't know if you're aware of this or not, but you've always been like that. You argue the finest strawman across multiple threads because you think that if one of those elements (IC>OtM, ps it's not) some how utterly invalidates the main scope of things (OtM is the f'ing shit). And you do this to such an extent that three or four pages of threads later you still cannot even bring your self to comment that OtM is even a decent Spell, it's weaker than Ice Assassin is your only comment and you will randomly pop into threads just to argue that.

And now you've actually lost track of reality.  Look at what you're saying... that I cannot bring myself to comment that OtM is even a decent spell.  Here's the last thing I said about it:

"Ugh, people keep calling that spell Ice Assassin.  It's not.  It lasts 1 round per caster level.  A good spell?  Yes.  But nothing like ice assassin!  I swear, it's like calling Alter Self "a low level Planar Binding"."

I stated right there that it's a good spell, just not like ice assassin.  Did I say it was weak?  No.  I said it was good.  I compared it to another overpowered spell, in fact.  And before that, I said it was like a very expensive Dominate Monster or a low level Ethereal jaunt.  Which, you know, it is.  And both of those are powerful spells.  I'm not even saying it's weaker than Ice Assassin... I'm saying it's simply not ice assassin... it does completely different things.  Ice Assassin gives you permanent minions.  Ice Assassin is similar to spells like Animate Dread Warrior or Simulacrum, and at lower level Animate Dead.  This spell gives you a short term ability to duplicate one off magic items (such as scrolls) or to create a temporary dominated enemy clones, which could be very powerful when combined with material component cost reductions or the usual Astral Projection item duplication tricks.  Powerful?  Yes.  But nothing like Ice Assassin in its usage.

Hey, let's do this: can you ever quote me, even once, saying Off the Mirror isn't a powerful spell?  Go for it.  If you can't... it's just you.  Or are you going to go for the excuse of "I didn't read that because it's too long" or something like that?  If you can't show me ever saying it's weak, then this is all in your head.

JaronK