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Gaming Discussion => D&D 5e => Topic started by: Amechra on December 17, 2014, 01:32:34 AM

Title: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Amechra on December 17, 2014, 01:32:34 AM
Yeah, I know we only have a few books right now... but someone should get started!

Charger and Mobile have really nice synergy. When you Dash, you ignore difficult terrain and get to make an attack as a Bonus Action at the end of it. If you do it right (i.e. move 10' in a straight line before you hit), you get +5 to the damage roll AND you don't provoke from the guy for the rest of your turn. It's Skirmisher-in-a-Can!

Ritual Caster turns any character into a spellcaster. I kinda like that.

Polearm Master and Sentinel are kinda a nasty combo. People provoke when they come within your reach as well as when they try to move more than 5' away from you, your Opportunity Attacks set people's movement to 0, and attacking someone else while standing next to you provokes.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Shadowhunter on December 17, 2014, 01:22:47 PM
This isn't my find, but I think it's worth pointing out once more. I saw it in caelic's thread "Bowman the Bard" (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=14434.0 since I've apparently forgotten how to make smooth hyperlinks). When the Bard learns new spells from someones spell list through "Magical Secrets", it has to be the same level or lower than what he can already cast. The thing is, 5th level spells are available to Bards at level 10. They're available for Paladins and Rangers at level 17. So Bards learning two 5th level Paladin/Bard spells can use them 7 levels ahead of their base classes. Which means they get access to things that might be balanced around endgame in the midgame, as evident of Swift Quiver.
I haven't seen any other archer-based class pumping out 4 attacks at level 10, not many character regardless of fighting style actually.

It's a neat feature and makes it well worth checking those 2 spell lists instead of the Wizards'.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: sambojin on December 17, 2014, 05:28:47 PM
Super-skill-monkey dumps are available depending on party make-up or multi-classing.

A rogue 11 with auto-10, expertise in that skill, a bard inspiration die and guidance cast on him gets 10+8+d6+d4 minimum on that skill check. That's without your stat modifier for the thing you're doing. If it's +5, you auto DC25. Only uses up a bard die.

If multi-classing is allowed: Rogue (whatever) 11, Cleric (knowledge) 2, Bard (lore) 3 with Sage as a background can pretty much do anything or learn anything all by himself. DC20 is an auto for anything he has expertise in, DC25 a likely hood. Although, at level 16, it should be.

You're at 1/2 proficiency for everything (Jack of All Trades), full proficiency for lots of things (skillz), double proficiency for quite a few things (rogue/lore bard/sage/knowledge cleric expertise), auto-10+ everything (reliable talent), +d4 or advantage on anything you can spend a turn on (Guidance or Enhance Ability spells) and can learn to do anything else that you actually need training for (Channel Divinity). Plus you know plenty of languages and can track down info about stuff. You can also inspire other people to not be hopeless at stuff (Guidance or Enhance Ability and Bardic inspiration die). If you wanted more random gubbins, go for arcane trickster as rogue subclass. Super skill monkey+, but with a bit of MAD.


ps. Guidance is a horribly open ended cantrip. Use it for EVERYTHING. That is the whole reason the cleric class exists (it's not for healing or anything now). It's so he can ask god to help you tie your own shoelaces in the morning.

edit 2: Outlander, sailor, or soldier might be a better minmax option for the build below. It adds athletics as a proficiency, and something else good. You lose a language, but you gain something good (tracking down info isn't that great). Probably Outlander or Sailor. Either get what you can't do well and eat for free, or switch in/out perception for something but with boats and free travel. Soldier's intimidation is pretty much covered by persuasion and deception.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: sambojin on December 17, 2014, 08:09:35 PM
Example character. This is a character sheet, not an attempt to bust WotC's copyright or trademarks. It's spoilered because it is long.

Next level it goes up to +3 on every skill, and can tool/artisan train for anything else. The spells are just the possibilities, not those chosen. It has too much gear, it's just an example. DC15 auto everything except athletics (low Strength character), DC20 auto some things, DC25 is doable and given for dex based things. Guidance cantrip on all skills of course :)
Auto-10 is awesome.
Another level of cleric wouldn't be horrible (more lvl 2 gubbins). It's at 6d6 sneak attack from Rogue levels, which is a useable amount.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: sambojin on December 21, 2014, 07:30:06 AM
Conjure Animals is an awesome spell for lvl 3. Just summon swarms with it. 8x 1/4CR swarms are amazing at character level 5 and can stack damage to pretty silly degrees. Cast it as a level 5 spell for 16 swarms(!), and it scales more from there. 1 action to cast, 1 hour(!) concentration duration, and they follow orders, so you can auto-pilot them. Bards, especially Lore Bards (level 6 cross-class spell? This is the one you pick, every time) can sneak the spell in as a class spell too. Here's some options:

Swarm of Ravens: 2d6 damage, +4 attack, 50' flying, reasonable perception. The best all-rounder for higher damage.

Swarm of Bats: 2d4 damage, +4 attack, blindsight, 30' flying. Nice for anti-invisibility work. Eeeeee! Thump!

Swarm of Rats: 2d6 damage, +2 attack, darkvision, smell. Mmmm, smellovision. And darkvision. Might be worth some research time to try and work out how to conjure terribly poisonous or diseased rats.

Swarm of Insects(Beetles): 2d4, +3 attack, burrowing speed 5'. It's at 1/2CR, so you only get 4 of them, but burrow is handy sometimes. If you know they're coming, set land mines. Or just dig through stuff after giving "reasonable" orders. Beetles are dumb though.

Apes: 2x 1d6+3, +5 attack, 30' climb. 1/2CR, so only four of them per upgrade. Well, apes have hands, so they can carry things. They can also throw things. Like rocks. Or poo. Damn dirty slave ape army.
--------------
4x rocks-to-the-head followed by ape-grappling or punching is nice. They do come with 2d4 rocks in theory (MM thrown ammo amounts for creatures), so you can plink with them if needed. But having hands makes them BEASTS for whatever you need done. They're not dumb, so cast Speak With Animals before you conjure them and speak to them in their own language. Then, they'll do whatever. They have to anyway, but no misunderstandings with certain swear words.

Riding Horse or Warhorse. 8 horsies or 4 war-gee-gees are sometimes very handy to have on-call at a moment's notice.  It's only for an hour, but at least you've got a getaway vehicle whenever you need one, for the entire party. Also handy for pack mules. When you loot a place, you take EVERYTHING!
--------
Remember the Warhorses' abilities. Move 20' then attack with at least 1 of the herd. It can put lighter enemies into prone/trample lock. They're good fighters, and they're Large beasts, so they can carry heaps. Maybe fey warhorses like carrying treasure? I think they do :)


Anyway, the spell is amazing and versatile enough for virtually any situation. Starting at a potential 8x2d6 attacks on anything (ravens) with plenty of resistances and immunities, you're laughing. It scales beautifully, lasts ages, and can get some really cool buffs as well. It also works as battlefield control in the sense that once you've swarmed something, they end up with plenty of AoO against them if they move, but they die if they don't anyway (ravens have 5' reach, but can only attack in their own square). Flying pseudo-damage-wall in a way, but one that can concentrate its damage, move it, or disperse it as needed.

Works with a Conjuration Wizard's lvl 14 bonus (8x45+ HP minions? Nice...) and basically breaks the action economy. There's other creatures to summon, but swarms are probably the best. You can't get the temp HP on swarms, but everything else does. It's like having a backup party of animal slaves, whenever you need them, for any task.

Conjure minor elementals is good for getting around resistances, but this scales quicker when that's not a problem, and has plenty of cool options anyway. Oh, and they'll always release more Monster Manuals, with more under-CR'd swarms and creatures in them, so this spell will keep getting better as 5th Edition matures.

ps. Don't forget Dinosaurs. They're beasts too, and need some love. Because a one action "make dinosaurs" spell is funny. Hopefully there will be more dinos in future MMs. A flock of Pteranodons is cool. Just for giggles really.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: sambojin on December 21, 2014, 09:17:53 AM
Quasits are ridiculously good for a familiar. It's almost worth dipping 3 levels of Warlock (chain) for any class, just for what it gives you. With Voice of the Master invocation, you end up as a better scout than virtually anyone.

An invis, stealth, polymorphable, flying scout.

For a minmax'y example with the above spell, go for say a druid 5 (or lore bard 6), warlock 3. Pact of the Chain (Quasit Familiar), Beast Speech, Voice of the Master and get Conjure Animals as a spell.

Cast Speak with Animals. Cast Conjure Animals (Swarm of Ravens). Polymorph your Quasit into flying mode, and invis him.

You now have a long range bomber force for the next ten minutes, that can fly miles out of range and still hit pretty hard. Command and control can be done by your Quasit, with you seeing through its' eyes and giving orders. After about 9 1/2 minutes, either give them a longer term order, or send them back home. 95 rounds of 40' movement (3800' or a bit over 1km) is pretty damn good for a strike range at level 8.

You probably don't even need Speak with Animals, that was just for pre-flight and situational briefing (they follow your verbal commands normally anyway), which gives you up to 600 rounds of 40' flying (the invis Quasit C&C slows them down from 50' flying), so 24000 feet. A bit over 7.3km, call it 7km, so there's some fighting time leftover on the other end. Then you just fly or teleport your Quasit back home. Cook him a kipper :)

The magic resistance only stacks on you within 10', but if a spell hits the Quasit with AoE (the best way of destroying swarms) while he's in the same "square" or area as a super-stacked swarm, they may get advantage to resistance. It's best to disperse the airforce a bit though, so AoE isn't as big a problem anyway. You can pocket dimension him if it all turns brown, or teleport him back home when necessary.

To take it to its logical maximum you could dip some Sorceror in there as well. A Druid 14, Warlock (chain) 3, Sorcerer 3 could Extend Conjure Animals for two hours flight time as a level 7 spell (24 Swarms of Ravens), and have a strike range of over 14km against anything. Unless you get attacked in your fortress o' doom while you're raven bombing something or your Quasit dies, you'll never lose concentration on the swarms or your satellite uplink to them. The lazy man's way of settling mage disputes. Air power wins wars people :)

Quasits are great. An imp might add bombing range, but they can't swim at all. And you've got schools of fish whenever necessary. Quasits are where it's at. There is something to be said for a 18km bombing range with Imps and the right animals, but Quasits are more disgustingly cute.

(now to co-opt an army of gnomes to build me clockwork toys and firelighters. Then it's just a matter of flammable oil and exacting timing. Muhahahahaha!)
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on December 22, 2014, 05:05:29 PM
So the Warlock Invocation is going in at level 3 as a retrain?  I like it.
I noticed the Blade'lock one had a level 5 prereq, but wondered what the difference was for the Chain/Book ones without the level prereq.

Lower down the board, I posted a Barb 6 Eagle + Warlock 2 for Devils Sight + Observant feat, but had assumed Warlock 5 was necessary to get the Chain skirting around.  So now it can be Warlock 3.  That's just about workable.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: linklord231 on December 23, 2014, 02:31:00 AM
The Lucky feat turns Disadvantage into Super Advantage.  It says "Whenever you make an attack roll, an ability check, or a saving throw, you can spend one luck point to roll an additional d20.  You can choose to spend one of your luck points after you roll the die, but before the outcome is determined.  You choose which of the d20s is used for the attack roll, ability check, or saving throw.
So, say you have Disadvantage and roll a 3 and a 17.  You decide to spend a luck point, and roll a 5 on the luck die.  Since you can choose which d20 to use, you can pick the 17. 

The Halfling racial trait called "Lucky" is similarly abusable, but not quite as widely applicable.  It says "When you roll a 1 on an attack roll, ability check, or saving throw, you can reroll the die and must use the new roll." 
So, again you have Disadvantage, and roll a 1 and a 5.  You can reroll the 1 into a 17, and "must" use the new roll of 17. 
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Captnq on December 23, 2014, 06:10:15 AM
The Lucky feat turns Disadvantage into Super Advantage.  It says "Whenever you make an attack roll, an ability check, or a saving throw, you can spend one luck point to roll an additional d20.  You can choose to spend one of your luck points after you roll the die, but before the outcome is determined.  You choose which of the d20s is used for the attack roll, ability check, or saving throw.
So, say you have Disadvantage and roll a 3 and a 17.  You decide to spend a luck point, and roll a 5 on the luck die.  Since you can choose which d20 to use, you can pick the 17. 

The Halfling racial trait called "Lucky" is similarly abusable, but not quite as widely applicable.  It says "When you roll a 1 on an attack roll, ability check, or saving throw, you can reroll the die and must use the new roll." 
So, again you have Disadvantage, and roll a 1 and a 5.  You can reroll the 1 into a 17, and "must" use the new roll of 17.

I knew that advantage/disadvantage crap had some sort of mechanical problem with it but I couldn't put my finger on it.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Raineh Daze on December 23, 2014, 09:43:52 AM
The Lucky feat turns Disadvantage into Super Advantage.  It says "Whenever you make an attack roll, an ability check, or a saving throw, you can spend one luck point to roll an additional d20.  You can choose to spend one of your luck points after you roll the die, but before the outcome is determined.  You choose which of the d20s is used for the attack roll, ability check, or saving throw.
So, say you have Disadvantage and roll a 3 and a 17.  You decide to spend a luck point, and roll a 5 on the luck die.  Since you can choose which d20 to use, you can pick the 17. 

The Halfling racial trait called "Lucky" is similarly abusable, but not quite as widely applicable.  It says "When you roll a 1 on an attack roll, ability check, or saving throw, you can reroll the die and must use the new roll." 
So, again you have Disadvantage, and roll a 1 and a 5.  You can reroll the 1 into a 17, and "must" use the new roll of 17.

I knew that advantage/disadvantage crap had some sort of mechanical problem with it but I couldn't put my finger on it.

To be fair, the advantage/disadvantage stuff on its own doesn't.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on December 23, 2014, 04:55:09 PM
Kasz made a thread on that a short time ago.  I doubt they have any specific plan to deal wtf they thought r.a.i. was/is supposed to be.


Shadowhunter's Bard comment ... yeah Valor at level 10 should have some specific Pally/Ranger combo, and better at level 14 though not by much.  Lore >> some silly Wiz 10 / Druid 10 type combo, or worse an X 5 or 6 / Y 14 or 15 caster.  Remains to be seen how thoroughly the unique spell lists will be gone over.  Bards only have like 5 class unique spells.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: sambojin on December 24, 2014, 05:41:28 AM
Resistance is a particularly nice cantrip considering the form that many of these rolls take. They tend to either be "save, but with two chances, or die", "save three times before you fail three times, or die", or "keep saving every round and the problem will go away when you succeed".

So the moment saves start being taken by someone, damn well start casting Resistance on them. The average of +2.5 to any chosen save is quite a lot extra in pseudo-character-levels worth of resistance.

Even better, stack it with an inspiration die, a Lucky die, advantage from Enhance Ability or anything else you can. They do stack, and it's a massive boost for a character's anti-BC or save-or-die stuff. Plus, Resistance is available whenever you want it, although it's touch range, which is annoying. From what I can see, mostly once the more hazardous sorts of saves start getting taken, they'll keep getting taken even if you kill the creature that caused them, so Resistance is literally a life saver.

I'm actually starting to think that a 1 or 2 level dip in cleric or druid gets more power from the Resistance and Guidance cantrips than they do from anything else. Always useful at any level.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Darkcouch on December 24, 2014, 09:24:08 AM
Halfling's ability to hide behind any creature larger than them pairs nicely with the 2nd level Rogue ability to take a bonus hide action every turn.  As a ranged rogue, you can pretty consistently get advantage and sneak attack dice by sniping from behind your resident warlock or wizard.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: sambojin on December 24, 2014, 03:20:31 PM
Pairs even more nicely with the Skulker feat. Once there, you can just keep plinking away.

The cleric's Trickster domain power makes all kinds of stealth possible as well. On-call advantage on stealth for anyone. Invoke Duplicity is really nice too, almost dip-worthy for any rogue, should melee become needed.

Combined with the above, a cleric and a rogue can make for a nice little turret team with cantrips and arrows flying everywhere, and all kinds of melee shenanigans available when necessary. Guidance for any skill monkey work rounds it out nicely. Yay teamwork!

"We stand there and shoot more. As a team!"
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Necrosnoop110 on December 30, 2014, 06:51:28 PM
A small one ... get "second-hand/quasi-first hand" Blindsight 60ft as 1st Level Wizard through the Find Familiar spell and 10gp worth of components and choose bat.   
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: sambojin on December 30, 2014, 10:56:51 PM
Do the same thing as a lvl 3 Warlock with Voice of the Chainmaster invocation. See the bat, be the bat, speak as the bat. Bring terror to the streets of anything on the same plane.

You are not Batman!
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Necrosnoop110 on December 31, 2014, 12:13:20 PM
(http://1.media.collegehumor.cvcdn.com/66/63/405d21dc5402b1123bd1ed2e33d490ed.jpg)
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on December 31, 2014, 02:46:39 PM

Ritual Caster turns any character into a spellcaster. I kinda like that.

... DMG lets a level 3 character with this, make Magic Items ; i.e. "turns any character into a crafter" too.

(some, not all)
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: SorO_Lost on January 04, 2015, 10:59:05 PM
Contagion
Melee touch to inflect them with Slimy Doom, each time the inflected victim takes damage he is Stunned until the end of his next turn (no save). The subject needs three successful and consecutive Constitution Saves to remove the condition.

Finger of Death
Killed subjects raise as a Zombie permanently under your control. Zombieapoclypse no longer requires delegating the job to a Commanded lieutenant.

Guards and Wards
Is now freaking fantastic.

So picture two curved bannisters leading to the second floor in a fancy house, except with some walls nicely placed to not make it so obvious. Under G&Ws you immediately have a 50% chance of not picking the flight of stairs you wanted to climb. And you're webbed for trying to walk up them. You finally get to the top and a Gust of Wind shoves you over the banner-less edge onto some spikes. While your down there you're hit with the suggestion that you should have tried climbing the other stairs and if you become aware what's happening you realize you never could be sure if you ever climbed the other stairs. Best TPK ever.

Magic Missile
Do we have clarification Ability-to-Damage applies to a single missile or all nine?

Mind Blank
Can now be shared, it negates Psychic Damage and it doesn't require concentration either. Bear Barbarians will love you.

Modify Memory
Mind Rape is core now, but it's a Ritual that requires several days to perform ;)

Simulacrum
It says it doesn't recover Spell Slots, but Sorcerers use Sorcery Points to create new Slots  :smirk

Tomes & Manuals: The first 5th edition TO
They regain their power after 100 years and increase your maximum limit so an Elf can just keep the same book and use it again and again over their 700 year lifespan for a +14 Bonus & cap increase.

Interestingly enough due to the wide range of value, each Tome can cost as low as 5,001gp. Reddit's WBL (http://www.reddit.com/r/dndnext/comments/2r8kci/deconstructing_5e_typical_wealth_by_level/) page means you can own hundreds of them. 163 to be specific.

So theoretically there is a very old Elf out there with an Intelligence score of 2,302.
And if you're a Sorcerer, you know for all those Simulacrums of your self, you should take advantage of Wild Magic's 35~36 result as often as you can using the Lucky Feat to tweak the odds in your favor. That's right. I found NI Ability Scores in less than 24 hours of caring to read the books.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: oslecamo on January 05, 2015, 07:20:09 AM
Finger of Death
Killed subjects raise as a Zombie permanently under your control. Zombieapoclypse no longer requires delegating the job to a Commanded lieutenant.

Nitpick, but considering that at best you may be able to cast Finger of Death four times a day, that hardly counts as a Zombieapocalypse. Even a full year of work would get you a bit over a thousand zombies, which is gonna have an hard time making society crumble and stuff. :p
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Amechra on January 05, 2015, 02:31:28 PM
Cantrips-wise, Shillelagh is actually pretty nice if you are playing a Wisdom*-focused class, thanks to how it lets you make attacks with Clubs/Staves using your spellcasting modifier. Oh, and it turns them into 1d8 weapons, so there's that. It's actually pretty decent for Human monks at earlier levels.

* Yeah, it says spellcasting modifier, but the only ways you can currently get it (Druid, Cleric w/ Nature Domain, and Magical Affinity) leave you using your Wisdom modifier.



I can't find the actual stats for Monk Weapons anywhere in my book. Printing error?



Blade Ward is both awesome and terrible simultaneously. It gives you Resistance to Bludgeoning, Slashing, and Piercing damage for a turn, but takes your action. It's just plain awesome for Sorcerers who have the Sorcery Points to burn, though.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: sambojin on January 05, 2015, 03:14:25 PM
Actually, you can also get Shillelagh as a bard. Either a Lore Bard at 6th or any Bard at 10th. Charisma based attack/damage isn't a horrible thing to have. I wonder if a lute or a big drumstick could fill in for a club at a pinch?
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: SorO_Lost on January 05, 2015, 04:23:24 PM
I can't find the actual stats for Monk Weapons anywhere in my book. Printing error?

Quote from: PHB78
At 1st level, your practice o f martial arts gives you mastery o f combat styles that use unarmed strikes and monk weapons, which are shortswords and any simple melee weapons that don’t have the two-handed or heavy property.

Basically you can choose Shortwords (1d6/finesse) for a Dex-based build or Quarterstaff (1d8/versatile) for Str-based until your Unarmed is higher.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Amechra on January 05, 2015, 04:57:02 PM
I am blind.

So Shillelagh just went into "YES" mode for either Human Monks or Monks with a dip in Druid (or Cleric with Nature Domain; CHOICES!); it lets you skip 10 levels of Martial Arts damage bonuses and use Wisdom for attack, damage, and (thanks to Unarmored Defense) AC.

For a simple build, a Human Monk could grab Magical Affinity (Druid), pick up Guidance, Shillelagh, and Jump/Longstrider, dump Strength and Dexterity, and could get by with just a high Wisdom. I think it could work out reasonably well.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on January 05, 2015, 05:07:56 PM
Polearm Master feat works with Shillelagh = d8 on the other end too (wotc thinks so anyways).
Also Book'Lock 3 can put Shillelagh on Cha.
edits


...  Reddit's WBL (http://www.reddit.com/r/dndnext/comments/2r8kci/deconstructing_5e_typical_wealth_by_level/) page ... 

Awesome post SorO, and thanks for that link.
Contagion is well rated back at wotc too.


WBL does have some more stuff to work out, but that guy is a good start.
a) ... average distribution of monsters from 1-20 levels
b) ... the ~walking around money per monster is easy , but then a*b
c) ... guesstimate distribution about how many how much magic items
d) ... the selling magic items table is an easy enough calculation, I'll do it soon, maybe tonight
e) ... some rough in guideline for crafting
f) ... some pre-rough in guideline for what items you'd really or mandatorily (!) want , 'course this is standard wotc C.O. work

a , c , and  e , are A LOT of work
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Amechra on January 05, 2015, 05:46:59 PM
Contagion is nasty.

Though I'm also a fan of Compelled Duel; give someone Disadvantage on all attacks made against anyone but you, and prevent them from moving more than 30' from you!
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: SorO_Lost on January 05, 2015, 07:51:35 PM
The paladin has some good Spells this time around, very defensive and party friendly.

Probably deals more than the Barbarian too in the higher levels. It appears to be a very solid higher ranked class.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Amechra on January 05, 2015, 08:57:22 PM
The Paladin has some incredibly solid spell choices. Most (if not all) of their "Smite" spells are pretty damn good (and are bonus actions to cast), Circle of Power gives advantage on a ton of saves, Compelled Duel keeps monsters off your allies' backs, and Aura of Vitality is pretty beautiful; sure it only heals 2d6 damage... but it does so as a bonus action, and it lasts up to a minute.

Dip Life-Domain Cleric, and the spell heals 2d6 + 5 HP.

EDIT: Yeah, Paladins at 11+ can drop a 1st level slot to add 2d8 damage to their attack's damage. They get a base +1d8 thanks to Improved Divine Smite. They can drop 2d6 + 3d8 + Str onto attacks pretty consistently - that's an average of 20.5 + Str. If they really want to pull out the big guns, they can drop 2d6 + 5d8 + Str for attacks, before factoring in bonuses from the Smite spells.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: SorO_Lost on January 06, 2015, 04:46:36 PM
Today's fun find, Durable.
Quote
When you roll a Hit Die to regain hit points, the minimum number of hit points you regain from the roll equals twice your Constitution modifier (minimum of 2).
5th, like 3rd, uses Specific beats General so if your minimal recovery value exceeds your hit point maximum then Durable's forced minimum holds a level of priority over any other general rule. Wait, found it yes they are lost. Damn.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: sambojin on January 07, 2015, 12:07:08 AM
The potion of Animal Friendship (DMG pg 187) is kind of oddly worded.

"When you drink this potion, you can cast the animal friendship spell (save DC 13) for 1 hour at will."

I know what they mean, you can cast the spell for the next hour at will. But it could almost be read as you now permanently have the ability to cast the spell at will, and the spell lasts for an hour when you do.


Also, the Ring of Air Elemental Command (DMG pg 190) is a wonderful all rounder for an item. Free unlimited feather fall, unlimited flight, and a few spells to cast per day. Just help beat up a summoned air elemental once you have it and all these powers and more are yours.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: sambojin on January 07, 2015, 02:12:49 AM
Unseen Servant is a very versatile Ievel 1 spell, if only for its' breakage of action economy and it being a non-concentration spell. It's pretty much up to you on how to break it, but torches and flaming oil (or holy water) are kind of gimmes. Trap disposal is nice too.

It stacks with a level 14 conjuration wizard's bonus, so it can have 31 HP. It also lasts an hour, so you can have plenty of them doing stuff at once. And it's a ritual, so it doesn't necessarily blow a spell slot that you want for "actual" magic.

It's not super good killy, but it's versatile. The RP options between unseen servant, minor illusion and prestidigitation are almost unlimited in annoyance, novelty, or dumb-stuff potential. You will never again need to scratch an itch. Any of them. No matter where they are....
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: SorO_Lost on January 07, 2015, 11:23:52 PM
Quote
Illusory Reality
By 14th level, you have learned the secret of weaving shadow magic into your illusions to give them a semireality. When you cast an illusion spell of 1st level or higher, you can choose one inanimate, nonmagical object that is part of the illusion and make that object real. You can do this on your turn as a bonus action while the spell is ongoing. The object remains real for 1 minute. For example, you can create an illusion of a bridge over a chasm and then make it real long enough for your allies to cross.
The object can’t deal damage or otherwise directly harm anyone.
Also it appears to have no size limitation so combine it with Mirage Arcana to make your chosen terrain real. Like suffocating doesn't deal damage and being trapped in superglue doesn't directly harm you.

Dream is a 5th level Illusion that alters someone's dreams so technically you can also make dreams come true.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: SorO_Lost on January 07, 2015, 11:43:16 PM
DMG's Evil Paladin addition is a new Oath choice. It includes this;
Quote from: DMG97
Control Undead.
As an action, the paladin targets one undead creature he or she can see within 30 feet of him or her. The target must make a Wisdom saving throw. On a failed save, the target must obey the paladin's commands for the next 24 hours, or until the paladin uses this Channel Divinity option again. An undead whose challenge rating is equal to or greater than the paladin's level is immune to this effect.
Aura of Hate also gives everyone nearby your Charisma Modifier to damage and adds both Animate Dead and Contagion to your Spell List.

Team Evil is back.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: sambojin on January 08, 2015, 12:42:34 AM
Quote
Illusory Reality
By 14th level, you have learned the secret of weaving shadow magic into your illusions to give them a semireality. When you cast an illusion spell of 1st level or higher, you can choose one inanimate, nonmagical object that is part of the illusion and make that object real. You can do this on your turn as a bonus action while the spell is ongoing. The object remains real for 1 minute. For example, you can create an illusion of a bridge over a chasm and then make it real long enough for your allies to cross.
The object can’t deal damage or otherwise directly harm anyone.
Also it appears to have no size limitation so combine it with Mirage Arcana to make your chosen terrain real. Like suffocating doesn't deal damage and being trapped in superglue doesn't directly harm you.

Dream is a 5th level Illusion that alters someone's dreams so technically you can also make dreams come true.

Isn't Mirage Arcana pretty real anyway? Even if they see through the illusion, they're still effected by it in the sense of the "terrain" and difficult terrain being real to them regardless of belief?

Is this a "Rock falls from the ceiling" thing? Because you know the DM can do that sort of stuff back to a PC......... Lol

But yes, a 1x1 mile illusion makes this an amazing ability. Especially with an "I don't care, my illusion is stronger than your disbelief" spell. Then add real stuff. Or shadowy real stuff. Or stuff stuff. It's pretty vague on just how close this is to a Wish spell, but your DM probably has well-founded "views" on things. Argue away.

Rocks and ceilings.......
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Amechra on January 08, 2015, 12:49:57 AM
You are forgetting the best use - Minor Illusion means infinite booze. And infinite booze means you never have to say you're sorry.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: sambojin on January 08, 2015, 02:00:52 AM
It has to be a lvl 1+ illusion, so that won't work. So you have to say sorry WoTC, you knew it would happen.

"I can't Mend your broken McGuffin with my cantrips bro! I was too busy making real bar wenches with my mind with lvl1+ illusions. And then putting them on slow-mo replay later to show my friends with Minor Illusion. I even made a weavepage for this junk! You understand don't you dog? It's like they're real, man. Real-real. Yeah!?! There ain't no Unseen Servants in my house. We got bitches you can see!!! Bitches you can touch!!!!! But I'll get you one of dem "unseen" ones for the kinky stuff....."

And so on and so forth.....
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on January 08, 2015, 05:44:11 PM
I'm looking at Rogue Thief 13 UMD, and thinking:  "Hand me a Ritual Book and some Scrolls, and heck even a (knocked out) Tome'Lock's  book."  Might need some fine tuning.


Quote
Illusory Reality
By 14th level, you have learned the secret of weaving shadow magic into your illusions to give them a semireality. When you cast an illusion spell of 1st level or higher, you can choose one inanimate, nonmagical object that is part of the illusion and make that object real. You can do this on your turn as a bonus action while the spell is ongoing. The object remains real for 1 minute. For example, you can create an illusion of a bridge over a chasm and then make it real long enough for your allies to cross.
The object can’t deal damage or otherwise directly harm anyone.
Also it appears to have no size limitation so combine it with Mirage Arcana to make your chosen terrain real. Like suffocating doesn't deal damage and being trapped in superglue doesn't directly harm you.

** Dream is a 5th level Illusion that alters someone's dreams so technically you can also make dreams come true.

Oh that's just ridiculously good PC Fiat !!
Take that mister Rule Zero.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on January 08, 2015, 06:01:13 PM
Selling Magic Items ... there's 6 paragraphs for it.


Gateway 1) ... have to find a City or dmfiat
1a ... ho hum lets go to the "market" today, again

Gateway 2) ... Investigation DC 20 check for each magic item ; dm ought to keep this secret
2a ... Rogue 11 with Cha 14, Prof, Expertise = dc 20

Gateway 3) ... bonus to d100 roll with Persuasion DC X for each magic item ; dm ought to keep this secret , alters the numbers below
3a ... Rogue 11 / X 5 with Cha 20, Prof, Expertise = dc 27 before extra dice roll buffs get added

Gateway 4) ... average amount below cost for sale
4a Common ................. 66%
4b Uncommon ............. 52%
4c Rare ......................... 38%
4d Very Rare ................ 29%
4e Legendary + Artifact sales require adventure or quest, with no guidelines (dmfiat)

Gateway 5) ... flat chance that a +25% cost "Shady" is available

Gateway 6) ... Shady results may (dmfiat) cause Legal Problems


So it's a minigame with side adventures, maybe 50% is a random median guesstimate for magic item sales.
Interesting that that's how it shakes out.
My 1st glance opinion , is to sell Uncommons and Rares for more crafting material as necessary.
Gygaxian DM sense, is you can choose to Not Sell, but "S"omebodies know you have the goods, and might be mad or have connections.


EDIT EDIT --- started a thread just for this, and am monitoring things/sites around this topics.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Amechra on January 11, 2015, 03:02:28 PM
So, I looked through the MM to see if I could find some good Ranger Companions, and I found some pretty crazy stuff:

First off, Giant Owls possess their own language. I repeat, Giant Owls possess their own language. Now I have to see if I can get the whole party to pick up Giant Owl as a language so that we have some secret communication.

Secondly, Elk, Giant Poisonous Snakes, and Panthers are pretty clear winners - Giant Constrictor Snakes especially, since their attack becomes:
+[6 + Proficiency] to hit, reach 10 ft., one target. Hit: 1d4 + [4 + Proficiency] piercing, and then the target has to make a DC 11 Strength save or take 3d6 + Proficiency poison damage on a failed save, or half of that on a successful one.

Ranger Companions make pretty excellent mounts if you read Ranger Companion as trumping the normal action limitations on unintelligent mounts. Because if they do, anything with Charge (Hi Mr. Elk!) is a winner. If it doesn't, stuff like Giant Wolf Spiders or Giant Lizards can net you a mount that can carry you all-terrain inside a dungeon, replaced with stuff like Giant Owls if your campaign is mostly out in the open. Did I mention Giant Owls don't provoke opportunity attacks for moving away from enemies?

Giant Owls would also probably fall under the "intelligent mounts" heading, given that they have Int 8.

Oh, and as a side note: you can get Swarms of Bats, Rats, or Ravens as a Ranger Companion.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Nunkuruji on January 11, 2015, 03:05:19 PM
Any that produce poison with the poison condition?
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Amechra on January 11, 2015, 03:36:33 PM
Giant Centipedes do; it paralyzes anyone it reduces to 0 HP for an hour.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: SorO_Lost on January 11, 2015, 05:34:32 PM
I think you mixed the names there, Giant Constrictor Snakes with Giant Poisonous Snakes.
The Constrictor is CR 2 & Large, but the Poisonous one is legal and has +6 melee 1d4+4 +3d6 poison making it awesome.

Speaking of pets, the expanded Familiars in the MM grant their master Magic Resistance (advantage on saves vs magic). The Imp is probably the best Familiar choice, like the Quasit it has Invisibility & flight for spying but the "advanced" Familiars can quit their jobs. The Quasit can stop being your Familiar at any time for any reason and the Psudodragon isn't much better, the Imps are noted to be loyal and cannot leave unless you violate the contract.

And if you go back and read the Find Familiar Spell, you can retype the Imp into a Celestial. :)

Edit - Oh, and flip to page 44 of the MM and read the entry. Then the Necromancer's quote.  :smirk
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Amechra on January 11, 2015, 06:25:59 PM
Dude, I got the name right the first time, and then typo'd.

And mentioned the 3d6+Proficiency Poison damage.

Because Ranger Companions add your Proficiency to all of their attack rolls, damage rolls, AC, proficient saves, and proficient skills. And the Poison is a separate damage roll.

That's why they can get so crazy-awesome; they also get boosted HP.

But still, Giant Owl. Has it's own language. (And the quotes are some of the best things in the MM. The Rust Monster entry has a great one.)
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: SorO_Lost on January 11, 2015, 09:15:55 PM
...Yes, anyway;

With the heads up I poked around and according to the MM the following languages exist.
Abyssal, Aquan, Auran, Blink Dog, Bullywug, Celestial, Common, Deep Speech, Draconic, Druid, Dwarvish, Elvish, Giant, Giant Eagle, Giant Elk, Giant Owl, Gith, Gnoll, Gnomish, Goblin, Grell, Hook Horror, Ignan, Infernal, Modron, Orc, Otyugh, Primordial, Sahuagin, Slaad, Sphinx, Sylvan, Terran, Thieves, Thri-kreen, Troglodyte, Umber Hulk, Undercommon, Winter Wolf, Worg, and Yeti. And the PHB has Halfling bringing the count up to 42.

Two special notes, Primordial allows you to speak Auran, Aquan, Ignan, and Terran (and apparently primordial?). The secret languages "Thieves Cant" & Druid can both be learned with DM permission.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Necrosnoop110 on January 11, 2015, 10:25:10 PM
Extra Dimensional Storage
(1) Find Familiar Spell (PHB p240)
(2) Have familiar hold item (Carrying capacity is Strength Score x 15, PHB p176)
(3) Dismiss familiar as per spell "As an action, you can temporarily dismiss your familiar. It disappears into a pocket dimension where it awaits your summons." (PHB 240)

This could be useful for storing your spellbook (3 lbs) or other highly valuable item(s) of limited weight and size.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Nunkuruji on January 12, 2015, 10:42:40 AM
In going through the magic items, there are a good number of crowd control items that would be useful to have familiars use their action on, assuming its all legal... I've not looked into what they can/can't do.

---

The point of inflicting the poisoned status, and not just poison damage, aside from any specific paralysis/slow/etc is for the juicy disadvantage on attack rolls.
Basic poison, which can be cheap/infinite depending on what items you craft, doesn't seem to cause the status
Granted I think the immune types are most celestials, elementals, fiends, contructs and undead, so as usual, it's not universally useful.

A number of potential animal companions only trigger poisoned status on poison damage to 0hp, which is near useless, unless you intend to capture.

Quasit and Pseudodragon has inherent poison claws that inflict poisoned status.
Also seems like one could create a Homunculus

Non-0hp poisoned status natural attack or special attack (non weapon/ammo)
Carrion Crawler
Chuul
Couatl
Dretch
Hezrou
Quasit
Vrock
Yochlol
Bearded Devil
Bone Devil
Pit Fiend
Ettercap
Flumph
Ghast
Grell
Homunculus
Myconid Sovereign
Otyugh
Pseudodragon
Thri-Kreen
Troglodyte
Death Dog
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Nunkuruji on January 13, 2015, 10:01:51 AM
One thing I want to simply point out is the magic item Insignia of Claws from Horde of the Dragon Queen

This item makes natural attacks magical, and it's uncommon, making it well within reason to craft.

Given the large number of creatures that are either resistant or immune to non-magical attacks, this is rather important for anyone who wants to try and build a natural attacker (see Lycanthrope template). That said, if you want to be a tormenting DM, don't ever give your players access to magic weapons :fu.


Paladin, War Domain Cleric, Wizard have Magic Weapon on their list. Magic Weapon doesn't explicitly state whether natural attacks are a valid target.
Monk 6 grants Ki Empowered Strikes.
Magic Fang does not exist.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: sambojin on January 14, 2015, 02:30:51 AM
@Necrosnoop

With the ingame functionality being:
"I'm sure(!) this isn't a Bag of Holding! But I'll check for sure. Hey Quasit, hold onto this for me for a sec, could you?"

Tests......
......

"We're here guys!"

Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on January 14, 2015, 04:13:51 PM
SorO's Language list ... wow that's a lot longer than 3e or 4e. 

Improves the value of Comprehend Languages for sneaking, and Tongues or Telepathy in general.  Good thing every party has a Wizard  :tongue
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: sambojin on January 14, 2015, 08:25:07 PM
Makes the great old one patron for warlocks seem a fair bit better too.

"I spend my non-adventuring days speaking to the elks. The big ones."
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: SorO_Lost on January 14, 2015, 09:28:19 PM
idk, if I were to play a Warlock I'd make a pact with Cthulhu (which incidentally is mentioned by name as a choice).
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Necrosnoop110 on January 15, 2015, 11:59:48 PM
@Necrosnoop

With the ingame functionality being:
"I'm sure(!) this isn't a Bag of Holding! But I'll check for sure. Hey Quasit, hold onto this for me for a sec, could you?"

Tests......
......

"We're here guys!"
:)  :lmao Bat of Holding
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: sambojin on January 16, 2015, 02:26:38 AM
The poor man's banishment.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on January 17, 2015, 02:39:02 PM

"I spend my non-adventuring days speaking to the elks. The big ones."

idk, if I were to play a Warlock I'd make a pact with Cthulhu (which incidentally is mentioned by name as a choice).

 :twitch ... my kitty avatar's Tail finds this to be rather insulting ; I haven't figured out why, though.

 :)
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: SorO_Lost on January 19, 2015, 08:23:30 PM
Why?
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: SorO_Lost on January 20, 2015, 03:43:28 PM
Do you how things are written, it appears a Paladin can double to triple (or more) Smite.

* X Smite Spells have a Casting Time of 1 Bonus Action and set up your next attack to additional do X.
* Divine Smite has no action, simply expend a Paladin Slot for bonus damage on each hit. No limitation on usage per round.

So at the second level (sadly once per day :p) the Paladin can nova both his Slots for +2d8+1d6 Fire/Psychic. It's not much but by level 20 this grows to +5d8+5d10 on the first hit with a second Divine Smite on his Extra Attack at +4d8 which is worth a total +68 damage.

Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: altpersona on January 20, 2015, 04:59:48 PM
what is the strongest familiar?

i think familiars make really good thieves now, if they can just pop back to their pocket and chill w/ the loot.

EDIT: to me, it looks like Pseudodragon w/ a 6 strength, x15 carrying capacity =90lb? can your familiar take you to its 'special place'? (if you are light enough)
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on January 20, 2015, 05:43:13 PM
Owls got a lot of attention back at wotc, even it's own thread.

**

After talking to my kitty avatar's Tail last night ... it speaks to Cthulhu, and made a Pact with an Elk.

It's like that old star trek episode where the White/Black face aliens were racist toward the Black/White face aliens.

I don't get my kitty avatar's Tail sometimes.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: SorO_Lost on January 20, 2015, 06:59:07 PM
EDIT: to me, it looks like Pseudodragon w/ a 6 strength, x15 carrying capacity =90lb? can your familiar take you to its 'special place'? (if you are light enough)
Sure, history has recorded the disappearance of countless Wizards that vanished into an extraplanar space only to realize than upon summoning their Familiar can only appear beside them, trapping them for all eternity.

Did the materiel really run through a playtest? o.o
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: altpersona on January 20, 2015, 09:40:45 PM
EDIT: to me, it looks like Pseudodragon w/ a 6 strength, x15 carrying capacity =90lb? can your familiar take you to its 'special place'? (if you are light enough)
Sure, history has recorded the disappearance of countless Wizards that vanished into an extraplanar space only to realize than upon summoning their Familiar can only appear beside them, trapping them for all eternity.

Did the materiel really run through a playtest? o.o

Pseudodragon has to gather treasure somehow... and it can 'keep you safe' forever
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Amechra on January 20, 2015, 10:03:45 PM
EDIT: to me, it looks like Pseudodragon w/ a 6 strength, x15 carrying capacity =90lb? can your familiar take you to its 'special place'? (if you are light enough)
Sure, history has recorded the disappearance of countless Wizards that vanished into an extraplanar space only to realize than upon summoning their Familiar can only appear beside them, trapping them for all eternity.

Did the materiel really run through a playtest? o.o

What makes you think this wasn't intentional  :D.

(Now, as a way to sneak the Halfling Rogue past the guards and into the castle... Real question is whether or not you need to breath in there...)
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: sambojin on January 21, 2015, 02:14:13 AM
What's the "strongest" familiar? Well, evil is strong, good is stupid. They implicitly designed a horrible outcome for pocket dimensional thieves....

EDIT: to me, it looks like Pseudodragon w/ a 6 strength, x15 carrying capacity =90lb? can your familiar take you to its 'special place'? (if you are light enough)
Sure, history has recorded the disappearance of countless Wizards that vanished into an extraplanar space only to realize than upon summoning their Familiar can only appear beside them, trapping them for all eternity.

Did the materiel really run through a playtest? o.o

Pseudodragon has to gather treasure somehow... and it can 'keep you safe' forever

But imps are more inherently evil. Plus they like making their "masters" do evil things. They're like horrible little poisonous succubi, just waiting for you to try it. Then you're trapped, forever. Until you kill the imp. Then you get bored and summon another imp. It's evil too. Eventually you'll go down the dark path of summoning sheep familiars for lamb chops and "kiwi hospitality". Wherever familiars go when they're not around, don't go there with them. Even within a day or two, even with Planar Travel as a spell, you know the DM is going to put you into a compromising situation with your familiar. It's their house. Bad things happen to adventurers that go there.

Don't ever go to a magical squid's house. There is a reasonably large amount of anime describing why you shouldn't.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Captnq on January 21, 2015, 05:06:20 AM
Don't ever go to a magical squid's house. There is a reasonably large amount of anime describing why you shouldn't.

(http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8xqkg3RkO1ro7x6c.jpg)
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: SorO_Lost on January 21, 2015, 11:49:27 AM
I still wouldn't advise going to that place.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: altpersona on January 21, 2015, 12:03:12 PM
still, having your familiar gank 90lb of treasure while you distract the boss is probably gonna be a nice haul
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: SorO_Lost on January 22, 2015, 02:56:53 PM
Just some quick crunch for benchmarks. Assumes starting 15 primary (typically strength) with applied ABIs, no Race or Magical Items factored, very few Feats (if any, and noted when used). Just to give you a vague idea on things.

Default Ranger (it's pretty much the paladin minus the d8 so let's do TWF style)
1: +4 (1d6+2) & +4 (1d6) = 8
5: +6/+6/+6 (1d6+3) = 19.5
10: +8/+8/+8 (1d6+4) = 22.5
15: +10/+10/+10 (1d6+5) = 25.5
20: +11/+11/+11 (1d8+5) = 28.5 with the dual wielder feat
Hunter: gets +1d8 per round means up to 42 dmg before hunter's mark.
Beast Master: panther, @lv3 14 then 27/31/35/43 before hunter's mark.

Default Barbarian (using a greatsword)
1: +4 (2d6+2/2d6+4) = 11 while raging
5: +6/+6 (2d6+3/2d6+5) = 24 while raging
10: +8/+8 (2d6+4/2d6+7) = 28 while raging
15: +10/+10 (2d6+5/2d6+8) = 30 while raging
20: +11/+11 (2d6+5/2d6+9) = 32 while raging
Path of the Berserker: 22/36/42/45/48 damage while raging respectively.
Polearm Master Totem(any): 9.5/31.5/37.5/40.5/43.5 damage with a halberd while raging respectively.

Default Paladin (also greatsword using)
1: +4 (2d6+2) = 9 with great weapon style (gws)
5: +6/+6 (2d6+3) = 24 gws
10: +8/+8 (2d6+4) = 26 gws
15: +10/+10 (2d6+5+1d8) = 37 gws
20: +11/+11(2d6+5+1d8) = 37 gws
Oath of Vengeance: reaction to attack again, 55.5/rnd excluding smite
Oathbreaker: +5 charisma modifier to damage, 47/rnd excluding smite

Default Monk (using quarterstaff as needed)
1: +4 (1d8+3) & +6 (1d4+3) = 13 when using martial arts
5: +6/+6 (1d8+3) & +6/+6 (1d6+3) = 28 when using flurry of blows
10: +8/+8 (1d8+4) & +8/+8(1d6+4) = 32 when using flurry of blows
15: +10/+10/+10/+10 (1d8+5) = 38 when using flurry of blows
20: +11/+11/+11/+11 (1d10+5) = 42 when using flurry of blows
Way of the Open Hand: 17th+ every other round replace your attack with 10d10, 2 rnd figure of 77 (vs 84 default monk)
Way of Four Elements: fire snake nova, X/50/54/60/64 respectively.

Default Fighter (using a greatsword)
1: +4 (2d6+2) = 9 with great weapon style (gws)
5: +6/+6 (2d6+3) = 24 gws, Action Surge for 48
10: +8/+8 (2d6+4) = 26 gws, Action Surge for 52
15: +10/+10/+10 (2d6+5) = 42 gws, Action Surge for 84
20: +11/+11/+11/+11 (2d6+5) = 56 gws, Action Surge for 112
Champion: requires factoring crits.
Battle Mastery: it appears you can use the same maneuver multiple times; X/66/74/106/138 without Martial Adapt.
Eldritch Knight: no direct dpr gain through spells can alter it.

Default Rogue (using shortsword for finesse as a dex based build)
1: +4 (1d6+2 +1d6) = 9
5: +6 (1d6+3 +3d6) = 17
10: +8 (1d6+4 +5d6) = 25
15: +10 (1d6+5 +8d6) = 36.5
20: +11 (1d6+5 +10d6) = 43.5
Thief: 17th+ reflexes for two attack actions in a single round, 87
Assassin: 17th+ failed save for x2 damage (87), 3rd+ surprise round auto-crit (x2 damage, includes SA dice), total 174
Arcane Trickster: no direct dpr gain through spells can alter it.

I think I may do Spellcasters as well, Cantrip-level only.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: SorO_Lost on January 23, 2015, 12:18:15 AM
While doing the Rogue there I found something cool.

Quote
Assassinate
Starting at 3rd level, you are at your deadliest when you get the drop on your enemies. You have advantage on attack rolls against any creature that hasn’t taken a turn in the combat yet. In addition, any hit you score against a creature that is surprised is a critical hit.
Quote
Critical Hits
When you score a critical hit, you get to roll extra dice for the attack’s damage against the target. Roll all of the attack’s damage dice twice and add them together. Then add any relevant modifiers as normal. To speed up play, you can roll all the damage dice at once. For example, if you score a critical hit with a dagger, roll 2d4 for the damage, rather than 1d4, and then add your relevant ability modifier. If the attack involves other damage dice, such as from the rogue’s Sneak Attack feature, you roll those dice twice as well.
So dipping Rogue 3 can lead to a very powerful opening in combat.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: TenaciousJ on January 23, 2015, 12:34:43 AM
What are you getting out of turning into a brown bear if you're using a belt to set your strength?  There's no size increase to weapons and you have to flurry with unarmed strikes, so you're on the monk damage chart no matter your form.

Also throw Half-Orc into that mix and use a Greataxe so you get an extra d12 on those auto-criticals.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: SorO_Lost on January 23, 2015, 12:41:37 AM
What are you getting out of turning into a brown bear if you're using a belt to set your strength?  There's no size increase to weapons and you have to flurry with unarmed strikes, so you're on the monk damage chart no matter your form.
Gear is the easy part.
Quote from: Wild Shape
You choose whether your equipment falls to the ground in your space, merges into your new form, or is worn by it.
You can simply continue to wear the belt, if you want to push that the belt is the wrong size DM ban! Then buy one designed to fit a large creature (which doesn't appear that you need to anyway). Trivial really.

There is a prevailing argument that Natural Weapons are Unarmed Strikes in 5th. 5th != 3rd, there is no text saying no but...
Quote from: Alter Self
Natural Weapons. You grow claws, fangs, spines, horns, or a different natural weapon of your choice. Your unarmed strikes deal 1d6 bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing damage, as appropriate to the natural weapon you chose, and you are proficient with your unarmed strikes. Finally, the natural weapon is magic and you have a +1 bonus to the attack and damage rolls you make using it.
There is at least one effect that treats them as the same exact thing. Such has been abused on WotCs forums and even has it's own thread here (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=14512.0).

Brown Bears have a 2d6 Claw for a Natural Weapon, and so you use that for your Unarmed Strike.



There's no size increase to weapons
Quote from: DMG 278
Big monsters typically wield oversized weapons that deal extra dice of damage on a hit. Double the weapon dice if the creature is Large, triple the weapon dice if it's Huge, and quadruple the weapon dice if it's Gargantuan. For example, a Huge giant wielding an appropriately sized greataxe deals 3d12 slashing damage (plus its Strength bonus), instead of the normal 1d12.
Actually there are Weapon Sizes so it deals even more ^_^
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: TenaciousJ on January 23, 2015, 12:55:22 AM
I personally view that reading of alter self to be specific to alter self.  Does the DMG give natural attacks any broad rulings?  Natural attacks aren't even in the index.

I didn't dispute the bear wearing the belt btw.  It's still 2 levels of druid to gain an average 1.5 damage over 2 attacks.  2 more rogue levels would get you an extra 1d6 to every attack in your specific scenario.  I do question the bear wielding a greatsword without a mouthpick enchantment in 5th edition.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: TenaciousJ on January 23, 2015, 12:58:02 AM
Also wild shape makes no reference to alter self, so I think you need a broader rule to make that RAW.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Amechra on January 23, 2015, 01:03:45 AM
Dude, you're referencing a portion of a spell that fluffs changing the damage type and amount of your Unarmed Strike as growing claws and stuff. A Bear doesn't even have Natural Weapons, it has Claws. They are even labelled as such.

So sure, you can use Natural Weapons as Unarmed Strikes! Too bad the only times the game references natural weapons, it does so as fluff, not as a rules term.

Like you said, 3.x =/= 5e; in 3.x, Natural Weapons were a rule term. In 5e? They aren't.

It's like if I wrote a spell that had the FX of setting you on fire, and said that it let you use the Dodge action as a Bonus action; it would be really silly if you looked at that and went "whelp, being set on fire lets you take Dodge actions as a Bonus action."



Hunter's Mark is only on the Ranger's list (and you can't get it with either dipping Ranger or 6/10 levels of Bard)... so how are you casting it? Also, are you assuming you have it pre-cast on the guy you are slaughtering, or are you taking into account that you need to spend an Action to fire it off?



You also need to reduce the damage dealt a bit to account for AC (not by much, though; you do have +15 to hit and Advantage, after all (unless Oathbreaker boosts attack rolls too).)

Other than that, it looks pretty fine for "spike" damage.



Funnily enough, though, Rogue and Barbarian is a nice combination, even if you aren't trying to break the game. After all, you can use Relentless Attack to get a Sneak Attack off every round, regardless of whether or not you have anyone backing you up.

Also, you can get some good jumps with a good Strength, Expertise, and Rage.



TenaciousJ, Sneak Attack is 1/Round in 5e.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: SorO_Lost on January 23, 2015, 01:14:26 AM
2 more rogue levels would get you an extra 1d6 to every attack in your specific scenario.
Quote
Sneak Attack
Beginning at 1st level, you know how to strike subtly and exploit a foe’s distraction. Once per turn, you can deal an extra 1d6 damage to one creature you hit with an attack if you have advantage on the attack roll.
Sadly Sneak Attack only applies once and is only increased by +1d6 yielding +7 damage during a Critical. Comparatively the two Unarmed Strikes at 1d4 deal a total of 10 damage on a Critical, but two 2d6 "Claws" deal a total of 28 on a Crit. Net gain is +18 damage.

Can a smart bear use Weapons? Grizzles do (http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/grizzly-bears-can-use-tools-study-shows-1.2743906) and you keep your Mental Scores using Wild Shape, so questionable but possible.

You may be right on Natrual/Unarmed, it is one of the things that they need to address. I found a link to an Author Blog on WotC before but lost it, they may have something there with a little digging. I'll worry about it tomorrow.

@Amechra, yes apparently Scrolls are limited to your List, this is new. But guess what, I didn't add in Battle Master because it's 12am in the morning. So I can drop Hunter's Mark (56) for Battle Masters +6d8 (54) and still not care. And to scale it by hit chances I'm going to need an average AC by looking at every single example. Guess what I'm not doing anytime soon.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Amechra on January 23, 2015, 01:16:56 AM
Eh, that works.

Still, you have no legs with the Natural Attacks (could we get another thread for this and other general high optimization Shenanigans?) - using it as part of your build distracts from the other parts of it, which are mostly damn fine.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: TenaciousJ on January 23, 2015, 01:25:58 AM
Yeah I forget that about Sneak Attack.  I haven't DMed for a rogue yet or been able to play a character of my own.

I like the build, even though I wouldn't let the Claws = unarmed strikes thing fly at my table without a clarification in errata or by a developer.  I think it would be interesting to stick 2 levels of warlock in there instead for Devil's Sight shenanigans to make it very reliable.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Amechra on January 23, 2015, 01:29:08 AM
More on topic than arguing with SorO... Haste gives you a whole 'nother action. I repeat, it gives you another action.

Sure, it's restricted to a few specific actions... but it can still let Eldritch Knights turn one extra action into ten of them. Just pick up Haste as your 14th level spell, and you're set.

You get three Actions the first round (Action Surge: Cast Haste/Normal Action/Haste Action), then two for the next 9 rounds - pulling off 6~8 attacks per round is pretty nice... I mean, I guess.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: TenaciousJ on January 23, 2015, 01:32:08 AM
You get three Actions the first round (Action Surge: Cast Haste/Normal Action/Haste Action), then two for the next 9 rounds - pulling off 6~8 attacks per round is pretty nice... I mean, I guess.

The extra attack on Haste is limited to 1 weapon attack, unfortunately.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Amechra on January 23, 2015, 02:37:37 AM
Eh, thought it was too good to be true. Oh well.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: sambojin on January 23, 2015, 09:24:12 AM
Longstrider got a nice buff for a lvl 1 spell. It's now +10 movement (it doesn't say what sort, so all forms of movement I guess), 1 hour duration with no concentration, and can effect multiple creatures with higher spell levels (not just yourself, anyone).

It might not sound like much, but it's in the "might as well buff with it" category now. Especially good for those with bonus dash actions, full climb speeds (thieves) or all kinds of movement speeds (druids/imps/quasits/alter selvers/polymorphers or just a buff to the fly spell). Gaseous Form might carry the buff as well.

It's hard to say if things like Unseen Servants or Flaming Spheres can be buffed, but you probably wouldn't want to anyway.

It's considerably better than it was, and is perfect for a druid. Not great, but it's fairly versatile in it affecting any movement speed. No concentration is golden on any spell that actually does *something* for an hour. Might be a good stepping stone spell for researching proper high level movement boosters.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: sambojin on January 23, 2015, 10:37:18 AM
Heat Metal is one of the best anti-BBEG spells in the early game. No save, just drop the weapon or take off the armour or take damage every turn. As well as being at disadvantage in attacks and skill checks. Sure, they can pass the Constitution save, but that still means damage/disadvantage. It's pretty much win/win, either no armour or bad fighting. Great against many, many enemies.


Slightly off-topic, but.....
My top 5 spells for a Lore Bard's 6th lvl bonus spells would have to be:

Conjure Animals. There is nothing this spell can't do. It's combat'y, transport'y, carry'y and much, much more. Super scalable and will keep getting better with more MMs. Such a good spell.

Fly. Can you have too much flying in your group? No, you can't.

Resistance. Nope, it probably doesn't stack with a cleric's or druid's cantrip, but sometimes you're the only one close enough to cast it quickly enough. But it does stack with inspiration die, so it makes it very hard to whiff the roll. +d8+d4 to resistance is huge, and it gets better as you get bard levels for bigger die. Literally the biggest lifesaver in the game in save or suck, or save or die scenarios. Unlimited mini-bonus inspiration die are great (you'll probably have 3-4 inspiration die per short rest already, but more resistance is amazing in the small ballpark these saves get taken in). That's why this cantrip almost as good as a level 3 spell and on the list regardless. It saves lives even at lvl 20.

Enlarge/Reduce. Enbiggening things is a great buff. While your fighters do their stuff, you've already done yours. Shoot stuff or viscously insult the thing they're fighting. Or play some music and faff about. Whatever. You've already done what you needed to do. You made the BSF really, really big. It's air guitar time as far as you're concerned.

Crusaders Mantle. It's more damage for everyone. But it's only for a minute and it needs concentration. Still quite nice though.


What's the top of other people's lists for Lore Bard 6 bonus spells?

Oh, and a Linky of all the bestiary for the test material and adventures published for Next/5.0 (not my work). Just in case there's some nice druid shapes or Conjure Animal things hidden in there:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0AnRnFgA_yyEAdDh4SkVyTDRQWHQxQUtQMTlCam9WQlE&type=view&gid=0&f=true&colid0=2&filterstr0=Beast&sortcolid=-1&sortasc=true&rowsperpage=250

Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on January 23, 2015, 04:20:30 PM
Lore Bard 6 ... and I'm playing this.
Animate Dead and Conjure Animals.
But yeah, the various guides back at wotc, have rather extensive spell comparos, and Lore is a great way to cross list spell combos.


Fighter 2 / Assassin 3 / X Y ... has an entire guide for this alone back at wotc.
Alert feat, expertise in Stealth and Deception.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: SorO_Lost on January 23, 2015, 05:27:44 PM
Fighter 2 / Assassin 3 / X Y ... has an entire guide for this alone back at wotc.
I'd bet, it's pretty powerful. You can use Shortswords to make it Dex based to keep your Initiative pretty high and that Alert Feat you mentioned is worth another +5 too. :)

Speaking of
Quote
Initiative
At the beginning of every combat, you roll initiative by making a Dexterity check. Initiative determines the order of creatures’ turns in combat, as described in chapter 9.
Guess what was kept from 3rd. :)

It makes Guidance really useful and Enhance Ability / Foresight can be used for an Advantage on Initiative Checks too.

ROFLMAO
Quote
Jack of all Trades
Starting at 2nd level, you can add half your proficiency bonus, rounded down, to any ability check you make that doesn’t already include your proficiency bonus.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: sambojin on January 23, 2015, 07:05:30 PM
Plus another use for those inspiration dice.

+d8+d4+5+half proficiency is some very nice initiative for the use of one pretty renewable resource. Even nicer with a bit of assassin in there.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Kerrus on January 24, 2015, 05:30:10 PM
Unless I'm misreading things, Warlocks can use their 'make a weapon their pact weapon' ritual to make ANY type of magic weapon their pact weapon, even if it isn't melee. The weapon is of a melee type when they create it/summon it, but it doesn't have to be melee when they attune it. Not sure if this actually does anything though.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Nunkuruji on January 25, 2015, 03:36:49 PM
Unless I'm misreading things, Warlocks can use their 'make a weapon their pact weapon' ritual to make ANY type of magic weapon their pact weapon, even if it isn't melee. The weapon is of a melee type when they create it/summon it, but it doesn't have to be melee when they attune it. Not sure if this actually does anything though.

Pact Weapon seems like a pretty big letdown compared to the familiar option. If pacting a weapon actually granted a scaling enhancement bonus, and even then, it'd be a situation where you're hoping to bind a flametongue or some such weapon that has an auxiliary.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: sambojin on January 26, 2015, 04:15:43 AM
Depending on the group you're adventuring in, a kick-arse familiar isn't really that good either. Someone will have one, or long-term summonables. If it's a dippy warlock boon, go extra cantrips. Even without the big book of ritual stuff, it's nicer than "get a weapon, or get a super familiar". It just is. Even without every ritual ever made, I'd rather the big-book-o'-cantrips. As a dippy thing, it's good. If you claim the ritual thing, it's better.

But not as good as +Charisma damage and push when you want it on Eldritch Blast. Hex, Scorching Ray, Fireball, do what you want. But a pushy cantrip with good damage is golden. You can pay for all the rituals you want later. Unless you need a scout, Chain isn't that good. Unless you have plenty of long-term summons (10min-1 hour). Then it's great with Voice of the Master. Until then, meh. After then, long-range-attack-force-of-doom. There's a lot of things you can command with your voice through a good familiar. Otherwise, it's pointless. Grab the free Guidance, Resistance and *whatever* from the Book. They don't stack, but it means you've got two party members with them if you already have a druid or cleric in the party. At worst, +d4 initiative to two people in your party, with a wisdom caster alongside you.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: SorO_Lost on January 26, 2015, 10:34:02 AM
Then it's great with Voice of the Master. Until then, meh.
You get a Voice of the Master (+1 luck to skills and +5% XP gain) in D&D 5th? Do you need to complete Delera's Tomb for it?

I think you mean Voice of the Chain Master.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Nunkuruji on January 26, 2015, 10:56:12 AM
In my opinion, one of the biggest advantages of a familiar is that while they can not (normally) take the attack action, they can use their action to activate wands (many don't require attunement by spellcaster), as well as activate other magic items with very useful BFC effects and use their concentration if need be.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on January 27, 2015, 04:27:07 PM
If I'm reading the DMG right, you can Train to add on feats just like you can languages, skills and tools. 



Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: SorO_Lost on January 27, 2015, 04:51:49 PM
Yeah, you can choose it in place of a financial reward. It's right before the Epic Boons. And speaking of, Boon of Planar Travel is perfect for a Neowalker themed game and it's not too powerful just to hand to a 1st level character.

Quote from: DMG
Have snacks. Decide before a session who will bring food and drink. This is often something the players can handle.
Heh.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Nunkuruji on January 27, 2015, 05:10:49 PM
Pretty much like magical locations...
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: SorO_Lost on January 30, 2015, 12:32:23 PM
White Dragon Mask (legendary) [Rise of Tiamat]
+Charisma to AC (appears to stack with unarmored defense)
1/2 Cold Damage dealt to you heals you.
Darkvision 60ft.
Grants the Draconic Language.
1/day auto succeed on a Saving Throw.
When at 1/2 HP or lower, +1d8 Cold damage with all melee attacks.

Very very nice.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: SorO_Lost on January 30, 2015, 07:30:24 PM
Eladrin Race [DMG286]
Elven subrace but only gains +1 int, elf weapon proficiency, & misty step 1/rest.
DMG claims misty step is 2nd level and thus so powerful they don't need much.

Aasimar Race [DMG286]
Medium, spd 30ft, common/celestial languages, +1 Wis, +2 Cha, darkvision, resistant to necro/radiant, learns to cast light/lesser restoration/daylight 1/day as they level.
Not a bad race.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: SorO_Lost on February 12, 2015, 01:25:50 PM
Speaking of Horde of the Dragon in another thread, Hazirawn is a +1 Greatsword that deals an extra +1d6 Necrotic damage per hit. When Attuned those bonuses double (+2/+2d6) making it currently the highest damaging weapon printed.

The same source also released Insignia of the Claw (+1 unarmed/natural).
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Nunkuruji on February 12, 2015, 03:08:09 PM
Speaking of Horde of the Dragon in another thread, Hazirawn is a +1 Greatsword that deals an extra +1d6 Necrotic damage per hit. When Attuned those bonuses double (+2/+2d6) making it currently the highest damaging weapon printed.

The same source also released Insignia of the Claw (+1 unarmed/natural).

Yeah, the upper Legendary tier items have lots of cool effects, but, they're nearly impossible to create, so you're at the DMs whim whether its ever seen.

I wouldn't look any further than Rare in terms of what you can expect to get a for a particular character/build.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: SorO_Lost on February 12, 2015, 11:06:04 PM
Yeah, the upper Legendary tier items have lots of cool effects, but, they're nearly impossible to create, so you're at the DMs whim whether its ever seen.
New* fun find!
Not at all new.

SorO doesn't give a crap!
Oh, and...
Quote from: DMG 133
Over the course of a typical campaign, a party finds treasure hoards amounting to seven rolls on the Challenge 0- 4 table, eighteen rolls on the Challenge 5- 10 table, twelve rolls on the Challenge 11- 16 table, and eight rolls on the Challenge 17+ table.
Table 17 has a 20% chance of 1d4 Magic Items on an almost pure legendary list (the +2 armors are only very rare). So in a typical campaign the party averages one legendary item for each player (so just trade for the one you want)
Not as part of quest rewards but as part of randomly generated loot.
In a game that already has built-in Epic progression so you can just keep snagging more items anyway.

So if you're creating a 20th level build and want to slap some Legendary items on them. Do it. Essentially people like Nunkuruji are jumping in this threads to rain on your good fun because they A) Assume all DMs are dicks. B) Quests to not give out rewards (horde of the dragon queen gives 3 before the party even hits lv8) and C) All games ever will be below WotC's standard. So by all means, list the Legendary items you wish in your level 20 build suggestions and just ignore the naysayers like they deserve.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: sambojin on February 13, 2015, 10:07:46 AM
Oh, Ok. Umm. That made every build ever easy. Thanks.

Fully legit build coming right up then.....
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Nunkuruji on February 13, 2015, 10:48:40 AM
I'm not trying to rain on the parade. I'm just pointing out that you can't necessarily rely on acquiring specific higher than Rare tier items.

A natural attacker NEEDS to have an Insignia of Claws to be worth a shit past mid game (or some other method of making their attacks magical), just as one would need even the most basic magic weapon.

The Paladin would love to have a Holy Avenger, but he isn't gimped without one.


On HotDQ, the Legendary items are not quite guaranteed
If you're into spoilers,

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on February 13, 2015, 04:38:40 PM
I think wotc did quite a job muddying the waters about Magic Items, with Basic having almost nothing.

So yeah WBL-ish wise there should be on average those 4 Legendary items.  I don't think trying to sell them is a good idea at all.

Crafting a Legendary, is live-like-an-elf-forever long ... but that Formula side-bar is optional, and strictly for DMs that are channeling Stuart from SNL.


back edit to Bhu's post ...
Magic Items for DMs a little lite in the cakes ---> linky (http://www.medical-tools.com/shop/male-dog-scrotal-castration-neuter-kit.html)
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: bhu on February 13, 2015, 04:41:49 PM

So if you're creating a 20th level build and want to slap some Legendary items on them. Do it. Essentially people like Nunkuruji are jumping in this threads to rain on your good fun because they A) Assume all DMs are dicks. B) Quests to not give out rewards (horde of the dragon queen gives 3 before the party even hits lv8) and C) All games ever will be below WotC's standard. So by all means, list the Legendary items you wish in your level 20 build suggestions and just ignore the naysayers like they deserve.

They probably say that due to experience.  That description above is every single DM I've ever met in real life ever.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: TenaciousJ on February 14, 2015, 02:36:27 AM

So if you're creating a 20th level build and want to slap some Legendary items on them. Do it. Essentially people like Nunkuruji are jumping in this threads to rain on your good fun because they A) Assume all DMs are dicks. B) Quests to not give out rewards (horde of the dragon queen gives 3 before the party even hits lv8) and C) All games ever will be below WotC's standard. So by all means, list the Legendary items you wish in your level 20 build suggestions and just ignore the naysayers like they deserve.

They probably say that due to experience.  That description above is every single DM I've ever met in real life ever.

Wow I feel bad for you there.  I'm going out of my way as DM to pick items that are good for my players.  I've been converting some 3.5 enhancements up to 5th just so magic weapons feel a bit more meaningful.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on February 25, 2015, 04:47:11 PM
[not quite a tangent]

I'm liking Rogue Thief 13 UMD more and more.
Consider the elchealpo rate of adding spells,
each separate Wiz specialty does. 
UMD can do all of them. 
And the Ritual goodies from Book'lock.

If a DM is handing out the DMG listed treasure
there "should" be some random magic items
up in the Very Rares and Legendaries, that
are NOT usable by anyone in a party ... except UMD.

Say you get the 6 VR's and 4 Lej's, why would
they all be direct hand outs to a specific class?
It's hard to sell a VR and get your moneys worth.
UMD handles this instead.  You can't sell Lej's,
so the UMD guy makes do with a yes/no situation.

Throw in that early game In-combat healing,
and I'm liking the Rogue Thief.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: sambojin on March 20, 2015, 09:54:20 PM
For the evilest way to kill a BBEG: Disable him (even a grapple by someone else would work), wildshape into a Rot Grub, then eat him from the inside out.

It's a CR1 beast from Against the Slave Lords. Sure, you've only got 1 HP. Sure, you only move 5 feet. But you've got blindsight. Oh, and this:

Melee Attack—Bite: +1 to hit (reach 0 ft.; one living creature). Hit: By the start of the grub’s next turn, it burrows under the host’s skin. Any missed attack against the grub during this time Strikes the host. A creature can use a single Melee Attack against up to five grubs that have yet to burrow Into one host by also damaging the host with the attack. If a grub burrows Into a host, at the start of each hour, the creature’s hit point maximum is reduced by 5. Any effect that cures disease kills the burrowing grubs.


You might have to have plenty of aid actions to help you hit him, or you might have to completely incapacitate the BBEG before you turn into the grub, but this is made of Win. The best thing is, if he slaps you as you attack, you just unwildshape. You may even be able to unwildshape from inside your host if you take damage after you've burrowed. So if you get in, they're dead. Slowly, or quickly (you could wildshape again into a giant eagle or plesiosaur from inside their skull if you wanted).

You may even be able to take a short or long rest inside your victim to regain spells. And as a level 18 druid, you could actually cast spells from their innards. Lightning bolt out the jacksie? Literal heart burn? Witch Bolt someone's testies from the inside? You've got blindsight. You'll find them eventually.

I can't believe no one has mentioned this before. Hell, get Fly cast on you, cast Invisibility on yourself as a Grasslands Druid, then wildshape into your silent death form. They have exactly 1 attack-chance to survive if you hit them.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: 8wGremlin on March 21, 2015, 06:51:37 PM
The Aarakocra (easy find) Flight 50' at 1st level.

http://media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/dnd/EE_PlayersCompanion.pdf (http://media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/dnd/EE_PlayersCompanion.pdf) (page 3)

Dex + 2, Wis +1

Flight. You have a flying speed of 50 feet. To use this speed, you can’t be wearing medium or heavy armor.

Talons. You are proficient with your unarmed strikes, which deal 1d4 slashing damage on a hit.

Language. You can speak, read, and write Common, Aarakocra, and Auran.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: sambojin on March 22, 2015, 01:20:19 AM
Whirlwind: the ultimate item stealing and party annoyance tool. Sweep up everything before anyone else has a chance to claim it. Then they have to decide if the chance of death is worth it for that +3 sword.

Not bad for those times when you have to protect an item or area either.

But hoovering up the items that you want is way better than its actual damage potential. It's like mage hand for REAL men.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: 8wGremlin on March 26, 2015, 04:37:18 PM
Just some quick crunch for benchmarks. Assumes starting 15 primary (typically strength) with applied ABIs, no Race or Magical Items factored, very few Feats (if any, and noted when used). Just to give you a vague idea on things.

Default Ranger (it's pretty much the paladin minus the d8 so let's do TWF style)
1: +4 (1d6+2) & +4 (1d6) = 8
5: +6/+6/+6 (1d6+3) = 19.5
10: +8/+8/+8 (1d6+4) = 22.5
15: +10/+10/+10 (1d6+5) = 25.5
20: +11/+11/+11 (1d8+5) = 28.5 with the dual wielder feat
Hunter: gets +1d8 per round means up to 42 dmg before hunter's mark.
Beast Master: panther, @lv3 14 then 27/31/35/43 before hunter's mark.

Default Barbarian (using a greatsword)


I think I may do Spellcasters as well, Cantrip-level only.

SorO_Lost, did you ever do this for spellcasters
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: SorO_Lost on March 26, 2015, 10:17:37 PM
I got distracted but I can.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: sambojin on March 27, 2015, 04:12:31 AM
Warlock with +char damage comes out about the same at lvl 20 with eldritch blast.

4x(1d10+5)=42'ish average.

More if you hex a single target. More for all sorts of reasons (splitting blast attacks so you don't waste damage, giving other characters AoOs from repelling, whatever), but the basic figures work pretty similarly across a wide range of classes if all the attacks hit and you're optioning for damage with your "basic attack" form in a single class, without feats or gubbins.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: majicwalrus on March 27, 2015, 02:41:48 PM
EB with repelling is awesome.  With 4 rays you can easily control a field over a couple of rounds.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: SorO_Lost on March 27, 2015, 03:29:53 PM
Meh, 5th isn't 3rd.

You can freely move up to your Speed before, in between, or after your movement. It's like "Agonizing/Repelling Blast is awesome, I'm level 2 and watch me solo this CR 1/2 bear that just popped out under the bush! AAAWWWWWW GOD MY FACE whyisheeatingmyface!" Trivial fact, the MM is full of monsters that are faster than PC races, and many of them have their own ranged attacks meaning you need a massive empty field and lots of time to try and shove them to the limits of your range (and assume their range is shorter).

You also have the problem that Repelling Blast isn't awesome to begin with. Even if you are at the tip of your range hitting your opponent, you have three friends. What if even one of them wanted to play melee? You either hog single-opponent encounters or shoving your opponents outside of your party's melee range. Well, if you're level 20, and by that time everyone has cooler tricks than "push only 40ft". But anyway, it's either trivial for your opponent not to care or detrimental to the party unless the entire party is also hit-and-run is the point. It's also worthless if your raining death from above by using the current master-race with flight which leads into the point that the Eldritch Spear has a more consistent mechanical advantage than Repelling if you really are into optimization.

Repelling blast is not "awesome", it's "useful" and when I say useful I mean "not even as good as 4th's Slide" seeing how you cannot zig-zag them in and out of long area effects for extra damage. Please don't go full WotC on us.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Nunkuruji on March 27, 2015, 10:48:55 PM
Sounds like teamwork is required  :tongue
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Halinn on March 28, 2015, 08:19:13 AM
Repelling blast is awesome if your DM is into dramatic cliff-side battles.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: sambojin on March 28, 2015, 08:45:31 AM
It's awesome. Nice to shove monsters away from you and often at other PCs, thus helping Mêléer's, it boosts the amount of AoO's your party gets each round which ups DPR by a nice amount (it gets silly when your doom-stacked swarm that just attacked from Conjure Animals all get an extra attack in against an enemy each round due to AoOs), with the best part being that it's optional. I can choose to just leave blast as a damage cantrip if I want, or just push once or twice, or go the whole hog and be super-Mr-knockback.

Sure, you won't use repelling every round. But do you use every feat/cantrip/spell or invocation every round anyway?

It's also occasionally handy in BFC situations, for keeping things in difficult terrain or spell effects.

I'd be inclined to say it's a mêlée characters best friend. Everything a monster can do, they can do as well, move/attack/move/etc. But you regularly give them extra AoOs by knocking people out of their 5' zone, from almost anywhere on the battlefield. The monster moved, not them, so they get the AoO. Mêlée characters adore the invocation.

Trying to keep things out of range is one one of its least used abilities. But it's multifaceted enough that it gets used regularly, to good effect, and gives a party quite a bit more flexibility when desired. It's a good invocation, to be used optionally, whenever you want.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: SorO_Lost on March 28, 2015, 10:40:49 AM
I'd be inclined to say it's a mêlée characters best friend. Everything a monster can do, they can do as well, move/attack/move/etc. But you regularly give them extra AoOs by knocking people out of their 5' zone, from almost anywhere on the battlefield. The monster moved, not them, so they get the AoO. Mêlée characters adore the invocation.
This is exactly what I'm talking about.

Quote from: PHB195, fyi it's the second paragraph on Opportunity Attacks
You can avoid provoking an opportunity attack by taking the Disengage action. You also don’t provoke an opportunity attack when you teleport or when someone or something moves you without using your movement, action, or reaction. For example, you don’t provoke an opportunity attack if an explosion hurls you out o f a foe’s reach or if gravity causes you to fall past an enemy.
Repelling Blast's movement does not provoke AoOs. So how can you gauge something's worth when you know little about the rules and have been houseruling it to be significantly stronger than what it actually is?
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Wilb on March 28, 2015, 12:09:24 PM
I'd be inclined to say it's a mêlée characters best friend. Everything a monster can do, they can do as well, move/attack/move/etc. But you regularly give them extra AoOs by knocking people out of their 5' zone, from almost anywhere on the battlefield. The monster moved, not them, so they get the AoO. Mêlée characters adore the invocation.
This is exactly what I'm talking about.

Quote from: PHB195, fyi it's the second paragraph on Opportunity Attacks
You can avoid provoking an opportunity attack by taking the Disengage action. You also don’t provoke an opportunity attack when you teleport or when someone or something moves you without using your movement, action, or reaction. For example, you don’t provoke an opportunity attack if an explosion hurls you out o f a foe’s reach or if gravity causes you to fall past an enemy.
Repelling Blast's movement does not provoke AoOs. So how can you gauge something's worth when you know little about the rules and have been houseruling it to be significantly stronger than what it actually is?

Not even with Polearm master`s weird AO interaction?
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: sambojin on March 28, 2015, 02:02:54 PM
Well, I'll be....

It seemed to good to be true. We've been playing it wrong all this time. My other points stand, but the main reason I've been taking repelling is now pointless. Now it's just an average, but occasionally useful and optional invocation.

I'll have a read up on polearm master this afternoon and ask my DM. Since we've played it wrong to begin with, he'll probably let it work.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: SorO_Lost on March 28, 2015, 04:09:25 PM
Not even with Polearm master`s weird AO interaction?
5th still uses Specific > General.

Mindful Polearm Master AoOs when they enter your Reach, not exit or move within it.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Kremlin K.O.A. on March 30, 2015, 01:08:49 PM
Some things I noticed.
An average human only needs to be fed every 5 days.
PHB 185
Average con  = 10 = +0 con mod
therefore 3 days without food has no ill effect
On day 4, you suffer 1 level of exhaustion
On day 5, feed the peasant. and let them get a good night's sleep. That food and sleep both reset the starvation timer, and heal 1 level of Exhaustion   :twitch
Of course if you only want to keep the best peasants you can make working them even cheaper.
To kill off any peasants with Con less than 12, feed them once every 6 days.  :plotting
Or feed them once a week to only keep the Con 14+ peasants.  :smirk

Thus Lawful Evil societies have a major economic advantage over Good societies.  >:(
What is worse, the 'survival of the fittest' method means that over several generations... The LE society can expect healthier and more resilient soldiers, and conscripts.... by starving them...   :???

Also, if you spreadsheet out the running a business rules in DMG p129, you will find that the most profit per day, on average, comes from running the business for a day, then taking a day off, then rinse and repeat.
Thus the best profit boosting item any businessperson can have, is a fishing rod.  :banghead
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: DDchampion on March 30, 2015, 03:11:37 PM
Thus Lawful Evil societies have a major economic advantage over Good societies.  >:(
What is worse, the 'survival of the fittest' method means that over several generations... The LE society can expect healthier and more resilient soldiers, and conscripts.... by starving them...   :???
Spartans kinda tried that with their whole "kill weak babies and then keep the youths starving so they'll be forced to steal and mug to ensure their survival, ensuring only the fittest remain."

They ended up running out of population before any significant advantage was gained, simply because not enough of their children were reaching adulthood. Turns out that quantity does have a quality of its own, and a mixed population of weaker and stronger beings has a clearer advantage over a smaller "fittest" population. There's always some kind of task you can give to the weak dudes to make them productive, and due to the funky ways genetics work, "unfit" parents can give birth to "fit" children.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on March 30, 2015, 05:26:17 PM
Niice.
This is the kind of emergent stuff, buried within the rules, that's super entertaining fun horrible dark ages brutality.

And of course this is how all high Con races and economic Royalists developed their cultures.  Duh!
 :D
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: linklord231 on March 30, 2015, 09:10:40 PM
Have 2 businesses, and run them on alternating days?
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Kremlin K.O.A. on March 31, 2015, 01:33:09 PM
Doubles your gold per day for the cost of doubling your investment amounts.
Good call there.


Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: sambojin on April 04, 2015, 12:45:37 AM
Sort of explains why Genasi are vaguely considered to still be the slave keeping bastards that their Genie parents were. If they can go for almost a week with just a quick feed and a nap, be sure that their servants will as well. Or worse.

It explains the Dwarven seige-mentality as well. "We have 8 cows and 4 dogs. We'll be here all year."
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Kremlin K.O.A. on April 05, 2015, 06:19:32 PM
You know, a System that has Warlock as a class in the main book, doesn't have a strong understanding of contracts.
An unskilled hireling is 2sp per day
A skilled hireling costs 2gp per day
Training costs 1gp per day, therefore a skilled person can train 2 students at once
250 days of training turn an unskilled hireling into a skilled one.
Consider the nature of 3 year, and 5 year contracts.
Hireling is hired on a 5 year contract.
Contract is binding.
Contract states that hireling gets 2sp per day during their training period, then 5sp per day afterwards. Plus room and food.
Buy a few farms to supply food, and some cooks (Count as untrained as there is no cooking skill)
Build a boarding house near your farms for your workers
Have some trained in survival (and possibly 2 other skills if you use the feat option) they gather herbs and other alchemical raw materials
Have others trained as alchemists. They refine what the gatherers get into refined alchemical reagents.
Sell some of the Reagents to alchemists across the land, and use others to make lots of potions.
every 6 workers should be producing 5gp per day of reagents, after selling enough to pay for all expenses.
This is pretty expandable. Make sure enough of your peiople are training more people to keep the staff numbers growing and you can have a self sustaining potion and money engine.

That's when you begin to work on the potion mixing rules

after all, now that you have potions to burn, you can start trying to mix them (train some people in the Magic initiate feat, make them learn Mage Hand, Prestidigitation, and Identify.)
You will get many vials of poison to sell to assassins guilds and adventurers
You will get some explosions that will kill the mage hands... oh wait.
You will also get some half strength potions to use for whatever.
Some of the potions will come back at double strength, consider what that does to potions of strength.
The important part is the permanent potions... you will only get a handful, but they will be amazingly useful.
Permanent max HP increases, Permanent 42 strength. Permanent climb and fly speeds. Permanent +6 weapons...
GM wants me to make a business? Fine, I will go into the power business.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on April 06, 2015, 05:27:46 PM
iirc the 250 days also goes for training in a Language or a Skill.
So there's a reasonable pile of stuff to keep training.
PCs are super awesome, so they train faster (like between class level).
Sucks to be not a PC, ha ha suckers.

Survival has a thingy, about what #gp a lifestyle you can maintain foraging around.
You could easily not use all of that lifestyle, and spend that ~money elsewhere.
Like supporting your small horde of trainees.

Perform has a better #gp earner clause, but the local authorities would take note.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: druid91 on April 12, 2015, 11:27:08 PM
True Polymorph can let a player continue advancing beyond 20th level. Depending on DM of course.

Party hit's 20th level. Everyone starts shaking hands and going "Yeah, well maybe I'll roll up a bard next time." And then the wizard goes "Wait, I have a plan. We don't have to end here!"

And then the plan goes something like this.

True polymorph replaces your game statistics entirely with the transformed form with the exception of alignment and personality. If concentrated on for the full duration, the target form becomes your base form. So your old character sheet becomes worthless. You turn your party into a CR 20 monster of their choice. Ancient Brass Dragons are nice for everything except Rangers, Rogues, and Monks, for reasons to be explained later.

Ok. Everyone is monsters forever. Now what? Well. You start over as a first level character. A first level character who happens to be a CR 20 monster. Since XP doesn't scale, you'll breeze through the first levels. But wait, monsters can't take class levels can they? Well. There's no real reason why not. According to the Multiclassing rules, in order to gain levels in a class you either need natural aptitude (A 13 or higher in the chosen classes required ability score) or years of training that was presumed to have happened before first level.

Since you chose a monster form conducive to your new chosen class, And first level requires 0 XP, which you have. You then take first level in whatever class you were before. An Ancient Brass Dragon has high enough scores to pass muster in everything but Dexterity, which is why they can't be Rangers, Rogues, or Monks. But I'm sure there's another critter around for those who need dexterity.

And then you just play from there. When you hit 20th level again? Do it again. Switching over to a BETTER dragon.

For wizards this trick is especially good if you set aside your spellbook prior to transformation. As you keep your original spells in your spellbook, but you also get another two every level. Meaning after enough cycles you'll have all the spells you could ever want.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: linklord231 on April 13, 2015, 02:34:45 AM
You start over as a first level character.

[citation needed]
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: druid91 on April 13, 2015, 09:02:44 AM
You start over as a first level character.

[citation needed]

Your game statistics are replaced with those of the monster manual entry. Which has no levels, which are different from CR, and thus in order to 'multiclass' into a new class, they just need to meet the attribute requirement and have 0 XP.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Amechra on April 13, 2015, 12:54:42 PM
The real question is whether or not monsters can have class levels by RAW. I know they can if the DM is building a custom monster, but I don't think it is called out in the MM.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: druid91 on April 13, 2015, 03:12:24 PM
The real question is whether or not monsters can have class levels by RAW. I know they can if the DM is building a custom monster, but I don't think it is called out in the MM.

Yep. I fired the question over to the sage advice thing. Maybe we'll get an answer. Maybe not. Who knows?

Still, so far as I can tell, there's nothing to say they can't. And the idea that a DM can give one levels indicates that they're capable.

Because otherwise True Polymorph is actually worse than killing them. Kill them, and they can be raised. True Polymorph them into a frog or something and they're fucked. You can't even use it to turn them BACK because it would lock their CR at 0, meaning the only other things they could be turned into would be equally weak.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on April 13, 2015, 05:55:01 PM
hmm ... couple of things

DMG does have provisions for playing past level 20.  Feels kinda like E6 adapted.

Monsters can have class levels, but idk wtf those rules work.  (no MM yet)
iirc - that gets figured on the CR system, not something like an "ECL".
Also if True Poly had a function that did this, it'd be in the spell description.

But you've definitely found a gray zone in the rules.
If you True Poly into say a Level 1 Elf with stats like the PHB does it ...
you could assume/rule you really are starting again a level 1 (with lots more loot).
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: druid91 on April 13, 2015, 06:18:04 PM
hmm ... couple of things

DMG does have provisions for playing past level 20.  Feels kinda like E6 adapted.

Monsters can have class levels, but idk wtf those rules work.  (no MM yet)
iirc - that gets figured on the CR system, not something like an "ECL".
Also if True Poly had a function that did this, it'd be in the spell description.

But you've definitely found a gray zone in the rules.
If you True Poly into say a Level 1 Elf with stats like the PHB does it ...
you could assume/rule you really are starting again a level 1 (with lots more loot).

Actually, I just decided to poke around and see if I could find anything on it in the DMG. Since the MM is litterally a MM, very little rules, quite a lot of stat-blocks for monsters. Even human-oid opponents are simple fiat blocks of stats. No commoner class in 5e, there's a commoner monster!

But anyway, DMG has rules for monsters with class levels. Only change is...

- The Monster doesn't gain the starting equipment of the class.
- For each class level it has, it gains one hitdie of it's normal type. (For ex, the Ancient brass would replace wizard hit die with the Dragon d20)
- It's proficiency Bonus would be based off it's CR.

Which makes this plot even more potent.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: SorO_Lost on April 18, 2015, 05:37:00 PM
I feel out of the loop.

Has WotC printed Phaerimm or Sharn stat blocks yet?
Is Eberron still 1.0 alpha buried-on-the-site?
Is there an FR-equivalent alpha-test document yet?
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Kremlin K.O.A. on May 09, 2015, 03:09:09 PM
Couple of fun things I worked out, that I forgot to put here.
But since I referenced them in the Monk thread, I should point them out.

Deep Gnome Wizard: Abjurer. Stats 15,14,13,12,10,8. Giving you 17 int, 14 dex and con, 12 wis and you pick whether to dump str or cha.
At level 4, take the feat Svirfneblin Magic. At level 8 take observant, and at level 12 take +2 int
So you have the guy with huge passive perception, and temporary HP.
This is a wizard with fighter level HP, who can use their at-will Nondetection to refill the Temp HP supply between every fight.
Additionally can use their reaction to have their ablative HP used as preventative damage reduction on allies.
Using average HP this guy, at level 14, has 86 HP and 33 ablative HP (so effectively 119HP with lots of bonus healing)
A fighter of the same level has 88hp + 14x con bonus. So at con 14 (human w/ 3 feats) you get 116 hp, at con 16, you get 130, and at con 18, you get 144.
This means that the gnome in question has comparable HP to the fighter.


Secondly, the strength dump Barbarian, or the "I am played by Orlando Bloom in the movie" build.
Variant human, 15 (becomes 16) in each of dex and con. 8 in str. other stats as you see fit (say wis and cha 12 and int 10)
Human feat. either 2 weapon fighting for a bit of extra damage, or sentinel for extra stickiness.
Totem Barbarian, either Bear/Eagle/Bear (if you expect lots of magic damage in the campaign) or Wolf/Eagle/Bear (if there are multiple other melee in the party)
Your weapon of choice is the Rapier, paired if you went TWF, or with a shield otherwise.
This starts you with an AC of 18 at level 1, and by using your levelling stats on dex and con, you can end up with an AC of 21 by level 14, more, with a magic shield. (1 les AC in the TWF build)
You also end up with 159 hp (if you maxed dex out first) or 173 HP (if you maxed out con first) and half damage from some things while raging.
You lose the bonus rage damage.... at first.
You see, part of this trick is triggering the DM's twitch reaction. Many DM's will see Barbarians as played by Arnold Schwartzenegger, not Orlando Bloom. So you are very likely going to see far more gauntlets of Ogre might, or belts of Strength in loot than pure random chance would indicate. Best of all, if such an item does drop, you get more benefit out of it than any other melee, so it is more likely to go to you.

These two builds are each fun on their own, but get nice synergy if played together.
You have a sticky as hell, rapier and shield rager. Then you got the arcane caster adding even more HP to the rager, saving healing hit dice and ensuring a much longer survival time.

Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on May 09, 2015, 03:34:22 PM
I like Dex Barbs.
They are a little tough to multiclass 'cause you still need the Str 13 to get out.
The DM is being mean ...  :bigeyes  :plotting ... if they don't allow crafting.

... This is a wizard with fighter level HP, who can use their at-will Nondetection to refill the Temp HP supply between every fight.
Additionally can use their reaction to have their ablative HP used as preventative damage reduction on allies ...

Oh niice.
Strictly superior to using Warlock 2 for the same spam.
Non Deep Gnome Wiz is still stuck with Alarm ritual.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: sambojin on May 09, 2015, 06:13:22 PM
Happy 5000th post awakened.  :clap

Mariner: The climbing man's fighting style. It actually opens up all kinds of weird when combined with wildshape.
"How the hell did a warhorse get up into the crow's nest?"
"Neigh."
"Sir! We have a giant eagle porpoising off the port bow!"
"Goddamned mariner druids!"


Being physically able to do something is a fairly broad definition. I mean, it's possible, right? If the horse was good at climbing. And eagles can probably swim to a certain degree anyway....

This will make being a rhinoceros or elephant so much more fun. As a draw card, if your DM complains about all the silly stuff, it's honestly hard to determine what dinosaurs could and couldn't do physically. Records from the time are sketchy at best. Thanks Wizards!
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Kremlin K.O.A. on May 09, 2015, 08:09:33 PM
Saw something in Evokers
The 14th level ability lets you max damage on a spell of 5th level or lower. First time a day is free, after that you take unresistable damage.
Damage amount you take is multiplied by spell level.
Cantrips are level 0
0 is less than 5
anything multiplied by 0 is 0.
After your big AOE maxxed spell of the day, get maxxed cantrips for the rest of the day, which synergizes with your "my cantrips save for half" and "I add Int to my spell's damage."
at 17th level, with int 20 (easily doable) your best scorers are poison spray for 53 damage to a single target, or Acid splash for 29 damage each to 2 targets. Save Fire Bolt and Chill touch for those vulnerable to fire, or necrotic, respectively.

Edit: And then I topped it
Evoker 16, warlock 2. (EV 15, lock 2 if you are using rolled stats and got 2 stats higher that 15 (that sum to 32 or better))  Variant Human, spell sniper
Invocations, agonizing blast, eldritch spear.
Now you throw 4 spell attacks a round that do 20 points of damage each (10 for maxxed d10, +5 cha bonus + 5 int bonus.) 80 DPR in cantrip mode.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: NumberKruncher on May 10, 2015, 03:11:37 PM
You also end up with 159 hp (if you maxed dex out first) or 173 HP (if you maxed out con first)

I thought you calculated CON into HP as if you always had the same CON.

For instance, a fighter increasing his CON from 10 to 12 at level 4 gains 4 bonus HP.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Kremlin K.O.A. on May 10, 2015, 04:17:25 PM
You do, but at level 14, you will either end up with 20 con and 18 dex, or 20 dex and 18 con depending n which one you max to 20 first
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: adamnsm1 on May 12, 2015, 01:31:16 AM
Edit: And then I topped it
Evoker 16, warlock 2. (EV 15, lock 2 if you are using rolled stats and got 2 stats higher that 15 (that sum to 32 or better))  Variant Human, spell sniper
Invocations, agonizing blast, eldritch spear.
Now you throw 4 spell attacks a round that do 20 points of damage each (10 for maxxed d10, +5 cha bonus + 5 int bonus.) 80 DPR in cantrip mode.

My understanding is that all of those evoker bonuses apply specifically to WIZARD spells, and therefore would not work with eldritch blast, as it is a warlock spell. They still combo together pretty neatly in the previous part of the post.

EDIT:
It does however stack with the sorcerer's Elemental Affinity, as that applies to all spells with a given damage type, not just a specific spell. With a fire type draconic origin (6 levels in sorc) and 14 levels in evoker you can cast a 5th level Scorching Rays for a total of 132 damage. Overchannell the spell so all bolts do the max of 2d6 (12), and each bolt gets your cha and int modifiers bonus. As a bonus you also get access to metamagic options such as quicken and twin.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Kremlin K.O.A. on May 12, 2015, 06:12:10 AM
Damn, missed that one. Oh well, the evoker is stuck with firebolt for superpowers.

Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Kremlin K.O.A. on May 13, 2015, 02:46:09 PM
And here is another one.
Nondetection beats all Divination spells  :)
Meaning Nondetection stops someone using 'Contact Other Plane' to get info about you.  :P
In other words, nondetection either prevents the Greater Gods knowing what you are up to   :lol
Or, it prevents the Greater Gods letting anyone else know what you are up to.  :fu  :lmao
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on May 13, 2015, 03:50:39 PM
2nd-ing Adamnsm
The basic tactic is the 1st Overchannel goes on a spell,
then use it for spamming cantrips.  Note that casting
a spell is almost always >>> even a boosted cantrip.
If a DM is going to ~@#$ about it, show them the
average damage a level 14 fighter is doing.

Firebolt is perhaps not the choice at level 14+ though.
Cantrip rider effect gets more important at high levels.
Fire is the #1 resisted energy by far.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: NumberKruncher on May 13, 2015, 04:22:39 PM
Saw something in Evokers
The 14th level ability lets you max damage on a spell of 5th level or lower. First time a day is free, after that you take unresistable damage.
Damage amount you take is multiplied by spell level.
Cantrips are level 0
0 is less than 5
anything multiplied by 0 is 0.
After your big AOE maxxed spell of the day, get maxxed cantrips for the rest of the day, which synergizes with your "my cantrips save for half" and "I add Int to my spell's damage."
at 17th level, with int 20 (easily doable) your best scorers are poison spray for 53 damage to a single target, or Acid splash for 29 damage each to 2 targets. Save Fire Bolt and Chill touch for those vulnerable to fire, or necrotic, respectively.

Edit: And then I topped it
Evoker 16, warlock 2. (EV 15, lock 2 if you are using rolled stats and got 2 stats higher that 15 (that sum to 32 or better))  Variant Human, spell sniper
Invocations, agonizing blast, eldritch spear.
Now you throw 4 spell attacks a round that do 20 points of damage each (10 for maxxed d10, +5 cha bonus + 5 int bonus.) 80 DPR in cantrip mode.

RAW: you're trying to modify cantrips with an ability that effects spells.

Cantrips aren't 0 level spells in this game, they're not spells at all; they're cantrips.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Kremlin K.O.A. on May 13, 2015, 04:39:02 PM
Quote from: PHB page 201. Section on Cantrips
CANTRIPS:
A cantrip is a spell that can be cast at will, without using a spell slot and without being prepared in advance. Repeated practice has fixed the spell in the caster's mind and infused the caster with the magic needed to produce the effect over and over. A cantrip's spell level is 0.

Actually, yes, cantrips are spells. Yes, they are also level 0.


Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: NumberKruncher on May 18, 2015, 11:37:44 PM
Dang, missed that one.  Thanks!

I'm in a series of games that allows for one uncommon magic item of your choice, and you start at 5th level.

The unarmored barbarian with maxxed DEX/CON and gauntlets of ogre power is always on my mind.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Kremlin K.O.A. on May 19, 2015, 02:17:26 AM
Well if you can start with the Gauntlets... go sentinel feat and get a polearm
Also raise Con with your level 4 stat up
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on May 19, 2015, 04:30:26 PM
Quote from: NumberKruncher

Baruk Khazâd! Khazâd ai-mênu!


So hey, what language is this, and what does it say?
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Gnomes2169 on May 19, 2015, 04:52:59 PM
Dang, missed that one.  Thanks!

I'm in a series of games that allows for one uncommon magic item of your choice, and you start at 5th level.

The unarmored barbarian with maxxed DEX/CON and gauntlets of ogre power is always on my mind.
I'd think the wis 19 item would be a bit better for a barb, given how the barbarian is likely going to max their str and con anyway, and it's always good to be wise and thus less fear/ dominate-able.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: sambojin on May 19, 2015, 05:23:31 PM
Not to mention instant awesome perception and saves (as well as potentially some other skills).
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Nunkuruji on May 19, 2015, 05:37:23 PM
Raw crunch: magic weapon, cloak of resist, stat19
Utility: Winged Boots, Bag of Holding
Fun: Bag of Tricks, Alchemy Jug (mayonnaise, iz good 4 u), Robe of Useful Items
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: SorO_Lost on May 19, 2015, 06:26:45 PM
Actually, yes, cantrips are spells. Yes, they are also level 0.
Very nice.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: NumberKruncher on May 19, 2015, 09:43:09 PM
Quote from: NumberKruncher

Baruk Khazâd! Khazâd ai-mênu!


So hey, what language is this, and what does it say?
It's one of Tolkiens dwarven languages. It's a dwarven battle cry: "axes of the dwarves, the dwarves are upon you."
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: sambojin on May 20, 2015, 12:35:53 AM
Khazâd

Meaning: As tall as they are wide. Probable beard regardless of gender. Alcohol problem in progress.

Used in a sentence:
"Yo' mumma was as Khazâd as she was Khazâd. Dat biatch gave me some damn job. Couldn'a been a blow job, coz now you're here little man. And ain't dat a pity to your poor, fat little mumma."

Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Kremlin K.O.A. on May 20, 2015, 05:33:23 AM
Dang, missed that one.  Thanks!

I'm in a series of games that allows for one uncommon magic item of your choice, and you start at 5th level.

The unarmored barbarian with maxxed DEX/CON and gauntlets of ogre power is always on my mind.
I'd think the wis 19 item would be a bit better for a barb, given how the barbarian is likely going to max their str and con anyway, and it's always good to be wise and thus less fear/ dominate-able.

NK was referencing my 'Orlando Bloom' build from earlier in the thread.
That build dumps str for high grade tanking options.
But if you can start with the gauntlets, you can get the best of both worlds.
Actually, yes, cantrips are spells. Yes, they are also level 0.
Very nice.
*exaggerated bow*
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on May 20, 2015, 03:52:29 PM
NK Tolkien aha.  Always a good touchstone for d&d.

Sambojin ... wtf is that some Orc-ish propaganda?
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Kremlin K.O.A. on May 21, 2015, 11:53:52 PM
Warlock + Warcaster + Dissonant Whispers = Target fails save and runs away on their turn, letting you cast EB as an attack of opportunity.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Gnomes2169 on May 22, 2015, 02:33:10 PM
Yup, it works... but isn't the best of combos, as you can typically spend that time either stabbing the creature with your blade pact weapon (thus justifying you being in melee) or eldritch blasting them from the safety of "not melee." :P

If you get cornered, then it works wonderfully however.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on May 22, 2015, 02:54:45 PM
... but let your party Non-casters ~surround
the target first, tag with DW, it runs away,
drawing an OA from all of them.
Tasty very tasty, per encounter on Warlock.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Gnomes2169 on May 22, 2015, 03:17:01 PM
Per-encounter-ish. If you cast hex, which is a biiiiiiig chunk of a warlock's damage, then you will only have 1 spell slot afterwords to spend on any of the warlock's spells until the later mid and late game... which takes a loooong time to get to in practice, and by then you will have better spells for those slots than DW. Seeing as there are typically 2-3 encounters/ short rest, using DW will only really give you a benefit one round of one encounter, which is likely going to be a bit less useful than most of your other options (which are either potentially long-term buffs, or potential encounter-winners like Hunger of Hadar, Fireball or Evard's Black Tentacles).
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Halinn on May 23, 2015, 03:27:41 PM
Per-encounter-ish. If you cast hex, which is a biiiiiiig chunk of a warlock's damage, then you will only have 1 spell slot afterwords to spend on any of the warlock's spells until the later mid and late game... which takes a loooong time to get to in practice, and by then you will have better spells for those slots than DW. Seeing as there are typically 2-3 encounters/ short rest, using DW will only really give you a benefit one round of one encounter, which is likely going to be a bit less useful than most of your other options (which are either potentially long-term buffs, or potential encounter-winners like Hunger of Hadar, Fireball or Evard's Black Tentacles).

At least you can keep that Hex up for 8 hours when you get 3rd level slots. But yeah, I agree that there are better options than Dissonant Whispers for a Warlock. It's better on a Bard, in my opinion.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Childe on June 19, 2015, 06:58:27 PM
Elves live to be ~750 and mature by ~100. The Manual of Gainful Exercise & co. refresh every 100 years. Elves who begin adventuring as adults could theoretically get +12 to every stat if they find the books within their first 50 years of adventuring.

If they also manage to find a Rod of Security, they can avoid aging for 20 out of every 21 days, leaving the books somewhere secure while they hide away in an extraplanar space. The books not only boost their current stats but also increase the maximum on stats. As a result, an elf can get ~300 in all stats by the time they die.

Take that, Tiamat.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on June 20, 2015, 02:42:57 PM
Hey it's a Childe sighting  :)

What's the youngest age a 5e Elf goes out adventuring?
And yeah good combo.

F- :fu -ing Elves  :pout
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Kremlin K.O.A. on July 08, 2015, 03:15:08 AM
Oops I did it again.
I looked at the rules, and found some bro-ken.

It takes 500gp to make the Robe of useful Items.
If you hire 40 guys to work on it, they can make it in a day, and the total cost comes up to 600gp
If you do this 10 times your expenses run to 6,000gp.
Assuming average rolls on the properties of the robes you end up with:
20 Daggers
20 Bullseye lanterns
20 Steel Mirrors
20 10ft poles
20 50ft hempen ropes
20 sacks
800 gp
7 Silver coffers (value: 3,500gp)
7 Iron Doors (Value: Freely make doors in 10 vaults)
80 gems (Value: 8,000gp)
7 riding horses with saddlebags (Value 553gp)
36 potions of healing (value 1800gp)
8 portable pits (value: unknown)
7 rowboats (Value: 350gp)
8 spell scrolls of level 1-3 spells (value: 400-4,000gp average 2,800gp)
14 mastiffs (value: 700gp)
6 Instant windows (value: enter another 6 vaults)
4 portable rams (value: 16gp)
10 robes (value: 10gp)


Just the CashMoney treasure options (Gems COffers and Gold) you get 12,300gp out of your initial 6,000gp investment
Then take into account the sheer number of dungeon shortcuts, work animals, adventuring gear, and spell scrolls? then remember it is all really light until pulled off the robe.

Hello near infinite wealth.

EDIT: FOrgot the potions
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Nunkuruji on July 08, 2015, 01:15:49 PM
I realized that about the Robe a while ago, but didn't realize it was so good to double your investment on just the treasure alone.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on July 08, 2015, 04:02:17 PM
Oh that's just ridiculous- ...  :plotting  -ly AWESOME !!



"8 spell scrolls of level 1-3 spells (value: 400-4,000gp average 2,800gp)"

Independent of all the other juicynesses,
this is a way to acquire random 3rd level spells
for Wiz Spellbook or Tome'Lock rituals.

1s via phb scroll purchase.
2s via phb ~spellcaster services.
3s via craft the robe = something interesting happens.

Now the party Lore Bard can breathe a little easier.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: sambojin on July 08, 2015, 07:00:26 PM
Artificers from the UA:Eberron also get one a month, for free!

Which doesn't really change the profitability much. But it does let you write into your character's backstory that they know every spell ever, up to level 3, if you start at character level 14+.

"Gizmo the Artificer then spent the next 15 years making fashionable apparel, learning stuff and finding campaign destroying items in his pocketses. He is still considered quite young for an elf. He has a horse farm, a dog kennel, a shipping company, a heap of money, and a siege warfare supplies division. He knows every spell 3rd level or lower. He has over 400 healing potions and more scrolls than he'll ever need. The horses carry them all. He then decided to go to the tavern where he met you guys."
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Nunkuruji on July 27, 2015, 09:24:04 AM
Looks like this will be the next player & DM splat

http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/news/scag
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: sambojin on July 27, 2015, 10:40:58 AM
Interesting to note for a general idea of "development time".

UA: Waterborne Adventures came out with the Swashbuckler trial rules a while ago, and this'll be that for realsies now. So, ummm, 3 months or so, including printing, shipping and distribution times? Around May 5th-> Now'ish actual development time? (a bit more, because they probably spend at least a bit of time developing UA stuff, even if we do mock their Mystics).
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on July 28, 2015, 02:33:43 PM
Looks like this will be the next player & DM splat

http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/news/scag

Huh.  So this is officially Splat #1 ;  by the traditional definition.

(and at the ~18th month mark)
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Childe on August 09, 2015, 10:34:51 PM
Elves live to be ~750 and mature by ~100. The Manual of Gainful Exercise & co. refresh every 100 years. Elves who begin adventuring as adults could theoretically get +12 to every stat if they find the books within their first 50 years of adventuring.

If they also manage to find a Rod of Security, they can avoid aging for 20 out of every 21 days, leaving the books somewhere secure while they hide away in an extraplanar space. The books not only boost their current stats but also increase the maximum on stats. As a result, an elf can get ~300 in all stats by the time they die.

Take that, Tiamat.

So, I know what some of you are thinking. "300 Strength is all well and good, but what if I want to do more than push over dainty flowers? What if I want to actually be strong?"

Be a druid!

At 18th level, your aging slows to 10% with Timeless Body. Now you can get nearly 3,000 in all your stats! (Since presumably it will take some years of your life to get to level 18, I'm erring on the low end here under 3,000.)

*This is different from the Monk ability with the same name, which is completely useless for the almighty elven librarian, because it's a Monk and what did you expect?

At this point you can also watch ALL THE CIVILIZATIONS rise and fall, as you get to live through ~140,000 years of actual time passing on the material plane.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on August 10, 2015, 03:55:32 PM
F -  :fu - ING  ELVES !!!!

 :clap


Timeline wise this falls between:
One of the oldest of tanar'ri, Turgalas was spawned by the Abyss a million years ago.  Sources: Fiendish Codex I: Hordes of the Abyss, page 156 (possibly Dragon #312 also)

... and Grand History Of The Realms which puts the progenitor races at ~37 000 years ago (including a certain Sarrukh race ?! )


Your Elf Druid 18 saw Pun-pun's pimp, be born.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: SorO_Lost on August 11, 2015, 09:25:02 AM
Tomes & Manuals: The first 5th edition TO
They regain their power after 100 years and increase your maximum limit so an Elf can just keep the same book and use it again and again over their 700 year lifespan for a +14 Bonus & cap increase.

Interestingly enough due to the wide range of value, each Tome can cost as low as 5,001gp. Reddit's WBL (http://www.reddit.com/r/dndnext/comments/2r8kci/deconstructing_5e_typical_wealth_by_level/) page means you can own hundreds of them. 163 to be specific.

So theoretically there is a very old Elf out there with an Intelligence score of 2,302.
And if you're a Sorcerer, you know for all those Simulacrums of your self, you should take advantage of Wild Magic's 35~36 result as often as you can using the Lucky Feat to tweak the odds in your favor. That's right. I found NI Ability Scores in less than 24 hours of caring to read the books.
That's not an underline. Enhance!

And if you're a Sorcerer, you know for all those Simulacrums of your self, you should take advantage of Wild Magic's 35~36 result as often as you can using the Lucky Feat to tweak the odds in your favor. That's right. I found NI Ability Scores in less than 24 hours of caring to read the books.

But Druid is a nice addition to the trick.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: TenaciousJ on August 11, 2015, 12:19:44 PM
The DMG on pg. 275 mentions a cap of 30 on an ability score for monsters but I cannot find a reference to such for players.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: adamnsm1 on August 11, 2015, 01:25:56 PM
Elves are all well and good, but they aren't necessary. Githyanki live in the astral plane, where time doesn't pass, but have outposts on the material plane, where it does. They can stash their manuals in their outposts and revisit them every time they refresh, getting infinite stats. Really any character that can visit the Astral plane can do this, but Githyanki would more naturally be able to.

Additionally there's the epic boon of immortality, which is a really easy way to get infinite stats.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Childe on August 11, 2015, 08:07:23 PM
Tomes & Manuals: The first 5th edition TO
They regain their power after 100 years and increase your maximum limit so an Elf can just keep the same book and use it again and again over their 700 year lifespan for a +14 Bonus & cap increase.

Interestingly enough due to the wide range of value, each Tome can cost as low as 5,001gp. Reddit's WBL (http://www.reddit.com/r/dndnext/comments/2r8kci/deconstructing_5e_typical_wealth_by_level/) page means you can own hundreds of them. 163 to be specific.

So theoretically there is a very old Elf out there with an Intelligence score of 2,302.
And if you're a Sorcerer, you know for all those Simulacrums of your self, you should take advantage of Wild Magic's 35~36 result as often as you can using the Lucky Feat to tweak the odds in your favor. That's right. I found NI Ability Scores in less than 24 hours of caring to read the books.
That's not an underline. Enhance!

And if you're a Sorcerer, you know for all those Simulacrums of your self, you should take advantage of Wild Magic's 35~36 result as often as you can using the Lucky Feat to tweak the odds in your favor. That's right. I found NI Ability Scores in less than 24 hours of caring to read the books.

But Druid is a nice addition to the trick.
The Druid route is a lot more stable. I'd even go so far as to say the Wild Magic approach is unreliable and statistically unworkable. Wild Magic relies on a 3.96% chance to trigger {35-36} when you get a Surge (factoring in Controlled Chaos), which is purely DM determined. But we'll set that aside. (Because so is magic item acquisition, though even 1 of the 6 books is enough for shenanigans (and the Rod of Security--while delicious icing on the cake--isn't truly necessary with Druid 18 an option). Plus there are guidelines for crafting the books between adventures in DMG.)

If you get the 35-36 result, you then have to roll a d10, for which Controlled Chaos doesn't apply (because rolling on the table is referring to the d100 roll), and which statistically ages you more than it reverses (ages 2, 4, 6, 8 or 10 years; de-ages 1, 3, 5, 7 or 9 years). So, on average, it ages you 0.5 years.

EDIT:
TenaciousJ: There is a cap of 20 stated somewhere in PHB. But these books raise the cap each time you use them too.
adamsnm1: What I'm hearing is we need to ask Mearls to make a playable Githyanki. LALALALALALA I can't hear you.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: TenaciousJ on August 12, 2015, 11:38:59 AM
The 20 cap in the PHB is specific to the ASIs in class levels, feats, and (I think) racial ability score adjustments.  There's a cap of 30 on the ASIs from alternative epic boons on pg. 230 of the DMG.  I was thinking there was an absolute cap mentioned somewhere but I cannot find it, though I suppose the specific rules of the tomes would beat general rules about a cap anyway.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on August 12, 2015, 03:09:50 PM
Barb and uncommon DMG items break through the 20 cap,
while the epic 30 cap is just for those specific alt boons. 

I wanna vote specific over general, but that's natural inclination on my part.
 :D :smirk


WBL ... don't forget selling all sorts of gear to get even more Tomes.
Tomes definitely are craftable (relative to DM crankiness).

Heck, your party has a solid chance at getting a Legendary
that no one can use, and although normally you won't get
your moneys worth, here's a corner case you would.
(the alternative is a golf bag lol)
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: SorO_Lost on August 12, 2015, 10:54:12 PM
The 20 cap in the PHB is specific to the ASIs in class levels, feats, and (I think) racial ability score adjustments.
Yep, they already printed magical items that take your ability scores over 20, like the strength belt which goes up to 29.

Tomes increase the cap through.

@Childe, Wild Magic is a theoretical point. If you're complaining how unlikely something is, you've missed the point everyone else already got. Also, seriously you complained you couldn't get magical items as part of your point, guess what the Tome is.  :rolleyes
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Childe on August 12, 2015, 11:52:01 PM
@Childe, Wild Magic is a theoretical point. If you're complaining how unlikely something is, you've missed the point everyone else already got. Also, seriously you complained you couldn't get magical items as part of your point, guess what the Tome is.  :rolleyes

The much bigger point was it actually backfires and accelerates your aging.

And I acknowledged they're items. Where did I say otherwise? I specifically said they are.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: TenaciousJ on August 13, 2015, 11:34:24 AM
The 20 cap in the PHB is specific to the ASIs in class levels, feats, and (I think) racial ability score adjustments.
Yep, they already printed magical items that take your ability scores over 20, like the strength belt which goes up to 29.

Tomes increase the cap through.

Yeah I have given out both the belt of storm giant strength and a tome to each player in my current game.  For some reason I was convinced 30 was an absolute cap for the system but I think I'm just misremembering the caps from the epic boons and the monster rules.  I guess the tomes will be the first thing where I have to say no to a TO strategy in 5e.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on August 14, 2015, 04:17:15 PM
I get your point, and agree in general.
It's probably a corner case though,
and not a particularly useful one.

100 years is enough time for a party
to go from 0 to 20+ levels and be done.
And even die, so the Elf can twiddle away.

100 years of Crafting is a mighty large golf bag.
So perhaps the T.O. use of Tomes collides with
what are otherwise much more powerful items.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: altpersona on August 14, 2015, 07:52:44 PM
now i need to look up the 5e crafting rules...

seems like a couple druish elves could build it after all :p

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=150.0
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Kasz on August 20, 2015, 05:33:54 AM
This is less of a find and more of a clarification that a strong tactic works as intented.

Dissonent Whispers combos well with any summon spell.
Conjure Beasts/Fey/Elementals and animate objects gives you lots of minions held up by concentration. 
Dissonant Whispers forces them to run away and provoke attacks. 
 
You can have 8+ minions, so you can position them to get at least 8 attacks of opportunity. 
 
Recently got clarification on Twitter that this is working as intended.

https://twitter.com/ngryGod/status/633979657491214336
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on August 20, 2015, 05:55:03 PM
Niiiiice.
Even with the recent tweet-rata (twat'rata?)
that the DM controls which things
show up for a Summons, DW still
makes good use generating OAs.

And the Summons'er doesn't have
to try to coordinate with grumpy and
recalcitrant Front-liners, anymore.
 ;)  :D
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: sambojin on August 21, 2015, 10:03:08 PM
It's why the "can you summon swarms?" with Conjure Animals, usually results in a "No. You damn well can't summon swarms" response. It's not because they're great in combat. It's because of 8 stacked swarms attacking a "person" is pretty good, and if they try and move, 8 AoOs for their effort. From a lvl 3 spell.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: SorO_Lost on September 02, 2015, 11:44:42 AM
Orcus
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: sambojin on September 02, 2015, 06:09:45 PM
Nice. Looks good.  :clap


Another dumb find from another thread:

The Giant Octopus, Plesiosaur and Killer Whale aren't great forms on land because they're slow, but they do have many cool things. 15' reach and restrain, 10' reach, or 120' blindsight respectively.

As a Moon druid, you can take Magical Initiate (Wizard or Sorcerer) with Expeditious Retreat as your spell, and can cast Longstrider naturally. Sure, it's two slots used for giggles, but that's not a lot. Cast spells, then wildshape into one of the above.

All of a sudden you're moving 20' normal/20' bonus movement (about as fast as any "normal" character on land) and get to use all your funky attacks for the next ten minutes. Or the whale can go 10'/10' and can keep singing away any invisibility problems, and never air-drowns at all.

Giant Badgers get 20'/20' burrow if you want that too. 40' through earth, in six seconds from a large target, is better than most modern mining machinery. Turbo digger ftw!

More dumb options, but fast aquatics could be fun to use (or super burrowing). Bonus points if you get someone else to cast Fly, Invisibility or Spider Climb on the whale :)
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: TenaciousJ on September 02, 2015, 08:04:19 PM
The giant octopus is a pretty good summon too if you're playing with a DM who will let you choose what comes out.  They're good at controlling the battlefield with their tentacle restraints, and you get 2 with a 3rd level conjure animals.  Since they can hold their breath for as long as the duration of the spell, it should be ok to summon them on land.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: sambojin on September 03, 2015, 01:57:35 AM
Would make for a nice little firebase to be a cantrip turret from. You'd probably have to do it at least once anyway, so you could see what they looked like, so you could wildshape into one later if you wanted to (an often overlooked feature of Conjure Animals).

Hmmmmm..... In theory, a Giant Octopus Druid could use a Quarterstaff if it knew how (tentacles are about as good as hands at many things). So while you might not be able attack at your reach with it, the second part of the Polearm Master feat should apply if you had it, because you could certainly wield the Quarterstaff while attacking normally. You've got 8 tentacles and only 1 attack, so holding a stick while hitting them with tentacles isn't hard.

Tada! 15' reach anti-movement reaction attacks.

Giant Octopi also have weird synergies as an AniMonk. Flurry of Blows, Way of the Open Hand and Fists of the Firesnake all do pretty cool things when wildshaped into one. Extra reach attacks, knockback or proning, or 25' reach flaming restraining attacks. And now that you don't have to be hella slow in movement, perhaps worthwhile considering.

Of course, a Longstridered, Barkskinned Killer Whale is a tank and a half with flurry of blows. It might be slow, but when it gets there, kaboom! Not bad at lvl 11 anyway (15d6+12 damage potential, +6 to-hit, 16AC, 90 HP, 10' movement on land, 120' Blindsight).

It gets better if the Monk's Unarmoured Movement transfers over to Wildshape forms. Did they ever clear that up, or is it still standard "DM decides" (which is always in effect anyway)? Because it doesn't look like much until the weirdness of a super-turbo-digger 30' burrow G.Badger or 30' land movement G.Octopus turns up..

Longstridered, Killer Whale AniMonk of Doom! (20' movement of doom, anyway. DM decides "No. That's Stupid." So you get someone to cast Fly on you. Then it's Stupid.)

Hell, does Unarmoured Defense transfer? Say goodbye to Barkskin if it does.

Don't even ask about Wood Elf movement, no matter how physically able a G.Octopus is to have its base speed increased to 35'. That one's a no, and I'm not even your DM.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: sambojin on September 06, 2015, 10:51:38 PM
Here, just for the ultimate in Killer Whale related dumbness:

Moon Druid 9/Monk 2/ Eagle Totem Barb 6. Wisdom 20.

Cast Longstrider. Cast Barkskin. Wildshape into a Killer Whale.

30' movement, 16AC, 1 MILE BLINDSIGHT (yes, I know echolocation shouldn't work like that, but as long as you're not deaf it might), with bonus action attacks or rage movement, plus Flurries when needed.

Why?

Ummmm...... I still haven't worked that out yet.

Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: bhu on September 07, 2015, 02:41:09 AM
Why doesnt matter so long as you name this guy Sea Panda.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: TenaciousJ on September 07, 2015, 08:02:27 PM
Sambojin, how are you getting 22 AC out of that?  You'd be at 16.  Unarmored Defense doesn't stack with anything.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: sambojin on September 07, 2015, 08:48:22 PM
Dammit. I thought they did (essentially adding both Con and Wis to your 16AC Barkskin). Then I bothered to read the Barkskin spell properly (for some reason, I had natural armour in my head for it). Will edit.

Would a Draconic Sorcerer's Origin stack with Barb/Monk UD?
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: TenaciousJ on September 07, 2015, 10:19:58 PM
Nope.  Both versions of unarmored defense are alternate AC calculations with conditions.  The draconic sorcerer ability is an alternate AC calculation with a condition.  If you have both, you choose one calculation or the other.

The only things I can think of that stack with such abilities are items like Bracers of Defense that explicitly add onto existing AC instead of offering a different calculation.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: sambojin on September 07, 2015, 11:35:25 PM
Well...... A 16AC, 30' land movement killer whale is still pretty funny. And kind of combat'y with flurry and rage movement. Not good, just funny.

ps. Best. Avatar. Ever. TenaciousJ
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on September 08, 2015, 04:54:36 PM
Mobile feat too, uncommon item crafted at level 3 for Flight.


Why doesnt matter so long as you name this guy Sea Panda.

... or the Nehwon Behemoth.
Also there's the latest Geico Kraken golf course thing.
I think the 9-iron will do fine as a d4 improved weapon.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on September 08, 2015, 04:56:51 PM
Nope.  Both versions of unarmored defense are alternate AC calculations with conditions.  The draconic sorcerer ability is an alternate AC calculation with a condition.  If you have both, you choose one calculation or the other.

The only things I can think of that stack with such abilities are items like Bracers of Defense that explicitly add onto existing AC instead of offering a different calculation.

Yeah they've been quite clear about almost No Stacking.
Annoyingly so.
Using a Shield and with the Shield Spell still works.
(crosses fingers hopes for no tweet-rata)
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: SorO_Lost on September 11, 2015, 02:52:54 PM
New Ranger Variant: http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/ranger (direct pdf link (http://media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/dnd/DX_0907_UA_RangerOptions.pdf))
It's not just variant path choice but a variant class. The first five levels were released too. :D

Quote
Ambuscade
Rangers strike first and strike hard. When you roll initiative, you gain a special turn that takes place before other creatures can act. On this turn, you can use your action to take either the Attack or Hide action.

If more than one creature in an encounter has this feature, they all act first in order of initiative, then the regular initiative order begins. If you would normally be surprised at the start of an encounter, you are not surprised but you do not gain this extra turn.
Surprise Rounds are back as a Class Feature! Now imagine a Fighter 11 / Rogue 3 / Ranger 1, double dice, triple attack, and a total of three Attack Actions before it's opponent acts if it wins Initiative.

Guardian benefits also have no listed duration, instead lasting until used. So once per day the Ranger can grant up to 10 Creatures 2d6+WisMod Temp HP that lasts until it's depleted. So that's actually pretty nice, I mean who really includes the mules pulling the cart? Alternatively, you can choose to the same as bonus slashing damage on a Creature's next attack. This really can crank up the potential outcome (+20d6+50) but I don't expect a lot of parties to have ten combat worthy creatures in it. :p

Also this
Quote
Hit Points Hit Dice: 2d6 per ranger level
Hit Points at 1st Level: 12 + your Constitution modifier
Hit Points at Higher Levels: 2d6 (or 7) + your Constitution modifier per ranger level after 1st
Quote from: It's not a typo
Wanderers
Rangers are the ultimate survivors. They can wander a barren wilderness alone for months, living only on what they find. A group with a ranger has a significantly easier time surviving in the wilds.
Key Mechanics: Natural Explorer, 2d6 Hit Dice. The Natural Explorer mechanic from the Player’s Handbook makes the ranger the best character to have along on wilderness adventures. Upgraded Hit Dice make rangers as durable as barbarians, even as they gain a more reliable number of hit points compared to the barbarian’s d12. In addition, having a higher total number of Hit Dice means a ranger can more efficiently heal with short rests, providing finer control over how much healing to shoot for when spending Hit Dice.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: TenaciousJ on September 11, 2015, 03:59:14 PM
Guardian benefits also have no listed duration, instead lasting until used. So once per day the Ranger can grant up to 10 Creatures 2d6+WisMod Temp HP that lasts until it's depleted. So that's actually pretty nice, I mean who really includes the mules pulling the cart? Alternatively, you can choose to the same as bonus slashing damage on a Creature's next attack. This really can crank up the potential outcome (+20d6+50) but I don't expect a lot of parties to have ten combat worthy creatures in it. :p

First paragraph of Spirit Companion says this is a once per short rest ability.  You're right about no duration listed though.  Invoking the spirit guardian like that is separate from actually summoning it.  It doesn't have to be out.  I made the same mistakes on my first few reads.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: SorO_Lost on September 11, 2015, 08:27:17 PM
First paragraph of Spirit Companion says this is a once per short rest ability.
Oooh yeah Short Rest is like an hour sitting around doing nothing. So it's more than once per day.

Also it appears I'm two days late, there is already another thread on the subject.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: atnorman on October 03, 2015, 06:19:24 PM
I could be wrong, but I think a straightforward reading of Pact of the Blade leads to the following interaction:

Warlock finds super pumped up dagger.

Warlock binds it as a pact weapon.

The warlock gets to choose what form of weapon it appears as each times he summons it, so summons it as a greataxe.

Warlock has super pumped up greataxe.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: sambojin on October 04, 2015, 09:17:28 PM
Or a cross/bow, sling, or even a net. Shunt it off into dimensional space and bring it back as anything I guess. Might have some synergy with a sling and the Magic Stone cantrip (EEPC). It should in theory add to-hit plus of the sling to the pebble, but not to damage. Maybe. It doesn't say it removes the weapon's bonus, but it does say it's a ranged spell attack, so would the launcher + count?

It seems like Magic Stone would ignore the launcher's properties all together. So no Flame Tongue or Frost Brand sword/*Sling* and Magic Stone combo. Probably. It's a DM decides job, that one.


Might also be a nice way of getting mêlée-only mods onto a ranged weapon if 5th ever goes down that path. Flame Tongue/Frost Brand should work fine as bows or slings by their wording without the combo above. Could make for a pretty scary amount of damage with Hex on top of it all. Lots of +d6 :)

Actually, are there any really weird nets with binding features that you could rather dubiously bring back as mêlée/ranged/thrown weapons? I can't find any in the DMG, but maybe in the play test or published adventures.

Dwarven Thrower could be nice as a larger weapon.

There's also the chance to do SA damage or to use things as Monk weapons that you normally couldn't use (just change them to the biggest finesse weapon you can).

Or polearm/two-hand anything for the Polearm Master/Great Weapon Master feats.

I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned more often as a benefit of Pact of the Blade, now I think about it.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: TenaciousJ on October 04, 2015, 10:31:11 PM
I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned more often as a benefit of Pact of the Blade, now I think about it.

Because it doesn't work.  When you perform the ritual to make a magic weapon into your pact weapon, you are not creating a weapon anymore.  You are moving the existing magic weapon between an extra dimensional space and your location.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: sambojin on October 04, 2015, 11:04:26 PM
It depends on how you read it. You are creating your weapon again when you resummon it, even if it was a originally magic weapon at one point. And when you create your pact weapon, it says it can be in any weapon form you want (and that you're proficient with it).

Then again, assuming you're bipedal, if you get one foot chopped off and sent overseas, then dimensional space your weapon, then you break your bond to it, where does it end up? It specifically says feet, not foot.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: SorO_Lost on October 04, 2015, 11:32:50 PM
It depends on how you read it.
Quote from: Text in question
You can then dismiss the weapon, shunting it into an extradimensional space, and it appears whenever you create your pact weapon thereafter.
Really there is only two ways to read it, it replaces your "creation" or it's resummoned along side your pact weapon.

And since it becomes you're pact weapon in the preceding text, one of those is obviously incorrect.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Nunkuruji on October 05, 2015, 05:37:41 PM
Regardless of the best interpretations of Pact of the Blade, I'm of the opinion that taking a Warlock into melee is a big mistake.

Greatsword (2d6 + str(5) + cha(5) +enh(3))*2 = 40 avg
Polearm Master Glaive (1d10 + str(5) + cha(5) +enh(3))*2) + (1d4 + str(5) + cha(5)) = 49.5
Eldritch Blast (1d10 + cha(5))*4 = 42 avg
Single Target Greenflame Blade Greatsword (2d6 + str(5) + cha(5) +3d8) = 30.5 avg

Some numbers. It takes a hell of a lot of investment to catch up with the straightforward EB.

In just the most vanilla comparison, there is little to no reward for risking melee combat. Warlock does not have the armor, shield or saving throw proficiency of what you need facing melee 5e monsters. I think if hex is factored in, its an even worse case for pact weapon warlock.

In terms of magic items

Rod of the Pact keeper is an obvious choice for progressing EB.
Pact of the Blade can take any of the coolest BSF weapons, staff of magi/power, rods, etc. and the damage potential might just catch up.

I would have liked to see that Warlocks could take advantage of weapons like Flametongue to the effect that the mystic does. That is, flametongue has no flat enhancement bonus of +1/2/3, and just adds 2d6 fire. Mystics can still add an enhancement bonus of +1/2/3, and it would help out Pact Weapon Warlocks if Pact Weapon granted enhancement, either automatically or via another invocation. Either that, or Pact Weapon needs rider effects like what EB has options for, in order to debilitate their enemies in melee.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: 8wGremlin on October 05, 2015, 07:14:12 PM
Shrieking Bolt (Complex Property) from the Pennant of the Vind Rune is interesting on the Radar Barbarian character.

Damage a target up to a mile away... not great, but interesting.

Shrieking Bolt (Complex Property). As an  action, you scribe this rune in the air between you  and a creature you can see while you expend a  spell slot. The creature must make a Strength  saving throw (DC 12 + the spell slot’s level). On a  failure, it takes 2d8 bludgeoning damage plus 1d8  bludgeoning damage per level of the expended  spell slot, and is pushed in a straight line directly  away from you for 10 feet per level of the  expended spell slot. On a successful saving throw, the creature takes half as much damage and is not pushed away from you.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Wilb on October 05, 2015, 07:29:54 PM
Nunkuruji, you believe that a 2 level dip into sorcerer for quicken would make the cantrip viable, at least?
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Nunkuruji on October 05, 2015, 11:30:16 PM
Nunkuruji, you believe that a 2 level dip into sorcerer for quicken would make the cantrip viable, at least?

I'm not saying its not viable, it has its situational use. It's probably also reasonable on a mid-level Eldritch Knight. I'm just pointing out that it is not the savior of the Pact Weapon Warlock.

Dipping is always a matter of opportunity cost of what alternate options you are giving up. Certainly it works. Could do just as well to go the EB route and spend the quicken on another EB.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on October 06, 2015, 06:00:29 PM
8wG , niice.  Int on a Barb is kinda shaky.
But yeah, range = sight, is utterly ridiculous/awesome.
So what about using your senses through a Familiar or Chain'Lock Familiar ?!

Barb eagle 6 / Chain'Lock 3 / semi-rai Rune 1 
mixes all this together, but MAD as all get out.
Might have to ditch Dex and wear armor.

Yunru has a Dex Barb guide ported to ENWorld.
Somebody previous to me, called something Radar.
I suppose I ought to come up with a new/better name.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: sambojin on October 06, 2015, 10:45:43 PM
Ok. Umm, more dumb stuff. With the new UA for Rune Scribes and Radar builds. It's pretty convoluted. Yes, I know echolocation doesn't work like that. But you don't really need it anyway. That's just for funsies and rules-laywering. Cast a spell, kill the hell out of someone. But when you don't cast the spell, most stuff within a mile of you can be killed the hell out of. It's good either way.

Make an Eagle Barb 6/ Moon Druid 9 thing for wildshape radar. But make sure you find a Pennant of the Vind (Air Rune) and become a Rune Scribe as well. Even one level will do.

Cast Scry on your target (the BBEG, but anyone really). You now see them.

Wildshape into a Killer Whale (so you have 1 mile eagle barb blindsight through the scrying sensor). It's now very hard for them to hide. Echolocation doesn't work like this, but if you're not deaf, it might. It's not definitely sonar (you may not have to sound "ping" them for a report), you can still passively "see" with the sound others make, and you can hear them through the scrying sensor.

Use the Shrieking Bolt complex property of your rune (with your tail or flipper) with as high of a spell slot as you can to assassinate your target. Do it repeatedly. Until they're dead. Push them off a cliff or something if the opportunity presents itself.

Have a drink and a rest. You just killed the BBEG in under an hour. Without having to go anywhere. Job's a good'un, you deserve it.

Yep. Plane wide assassination range. You don't even really need the barb/wildshape radar. Just the Scry spell and a Pennant of the Vind and a level of Rune Scribe. Everyone's a potential target. You can see them, you can kill them.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on October 07, 2015, 03:27:54 PM
Niiiice.

Got an idea for a name.
If you can see around a whole frickin plane, that's more like AWACS.
(though with wildshape, you could go with the animals NASA or the Soviets tossed up in space)
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Wilb on October 07, 2015, 07:48:11 PM
Ok. Umm, more dumb stuff. With the new UA for Rune Scribes and Radar builds. It's pretty convoluted. Yes, I know echolocation doesn't work like that. But you don't really need it anyway. That's just for funsies and rules-laywering. Cast a spell, kill the hell out of someone. But when you don't cast the spell, most stuff within a mile of you can be killed the hell out of. It's good either way.

Make an Eagle Barb 6/ Moon Druid 9 thing for wildshape radar. But make sure you find a Pennant of the Vind (Air Rune) and become a Rune Scribe as well. Even one level will do.

Cast Scry on your target (the BBEG, but anyone really). You now see them.

Wildshape into a Killer Whale (so you have 1 mile eagle barb blindsight through the scrying sensor). It's now very hard for them to hide. Echolocation doesn't work like this, but if you're not deaf, it might. It's not definitely sonar (you may not have to sound "ping" them for a report), you can still passively "see" with the sound others make, and you can hear them through the scrying sensor.

Use the Shrieking Bolt complex property of your rune (with your tail or flipper) with as high of a spell slot as you can to assassinate your target. Do it repeatedly. Until they're dead. Push them off a cliff or something if the opportunity presents itself.

Have a drink and a rest. You just killed the BBEG in under an hour. Without having to go anywhere. Job's a good'un, you deserve it.

Yep. Plane wide assassination range. You don't even really need the barb/wildshape radar. Just the Scry spell and a Pennant of the Vind and a level of Rune Scribe. Everyone's a potential target. You can see them, you can kill them.

So is this the semi-official return of the scry'n'die (slowly) of old, it seems. NOICE! :clap
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: sambojin on October 07, 2015, 11:02:18 PM
Well, you can see/hear someone/some place specific on the entire plane with Scry. The barbdruid radar is just for 1 mile blindsight from that point or from your current location (blindsight isn't necessarily that much better than darkvision/normal vision, except for anti-invis). But plane wide assassination is go!

Vind'ed, Vidi, Vici.
I found a Vind rune, I Saw, I Conquered.



Some not very useful dumb stuff from Sword Coast Adventurer Guide Preview.

The mimic thing from the Mastermind rogue path seems crappy. Until you have Voice of the Chainmaster to use it with. Maybe even with the Rot Grub loudspeaker ideas from the Familiar Handbook (or literally have a frog in your throat). Pass anyone off as a local with your awesome voice. Maybe link it with scry spying so you can get the sound capture you need, but invisible imps are just as good for that.

Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on October 17, 2015, 03:36:20 PM
The Beastlands has a ditty that if you kill an animal,
you have to save to Not turn into that animal.
So you fail your save(s) = 8 8 8 15 15 15 gets viable.

Mind you, the normal course of action would be:
Planeshift plus "run from the angry authorities".
However this could be done at level 1.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: sambojin on October 18, 2015, 05:11:21 PM
So no fishing, ever? The risks are simply too large.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on October 19, 2015, 05:06:03 PM
 :lol

Ha.

Beastlands ... Vegan or Polymorphed !!

The Plant Liberation Front wants an audience with a Guardinal.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: SorO_Lost on October 23, 2015, 12:45:09 AM
I found something on Reddit.

(click to show/hide)

If you cross-index the Contents (http://media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/dnd/SCAG_ToC_2k33.pdf), Blandsinger is a Wizard's choice which makes all those Int bonuses pretty nice.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Gnomes2169 on October 23, 2015, 02:49:14 AM
Huh, all of the cantrips are literally the at-will powers of the 4e Swordmage... but with more dice eventually and int mod only as part of Greenflame Blade. Well alright then I suppose.

Also, I feel I should point out that eldritch knight loves all of these spells, and can get them because they get all wizard spells. So much more use out of War Magic now...
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on October 23, 2015, 04:36:19 PM
Niice.
edit ------ commenting on SorO's post previous page.
Curious the expansion release schedule of classes = what 4e did.



Performance is worth a smidge of down time money = crafting.
2nd --- worth one spell and slot, then a decent pile, you could still use Shield spell but you don't need to, Grapple resistance, Conc boost might be a dip target
6th --- gish standard, no better no worse
10th --- massive Conc boost >> the sketchy version of Warding Bond
14th --- 'Lock gets this at level 2, snore, but useful anyway

I'd rather play this than Favored Soul, but that's just me.
Only the 2nd level abiilties seem to be power creep.
Probably drives a hard wall between FiEK 11 / Wiz 9 builds
and gished out straight Wiz 20.  Fighter 6 / Abj 14 feels weaker.
Lore Bard 18 squeezing in a 2 level dip, is a little weird but maybe decent anyway.
Could see 'Lock 3 dip to power the level 10 ability, but overlaps some other stuff (??).
Does this target a Sword +Staff 2 weapon build, or say Polearm Master with Shillelagh dip?
etc

This'll get lots of play + attention.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: SorO_Lost on October 26, 2015, 07:24:19 PM
Partial SCAG review.

(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: SorO_Lost on October 28, 2015, 11:08:05 AM
btw, with the new Monk class making you so excited to play it. I feel now is a great time to mention the Tinderstrike from Princes of the Apocalypse. It's not quite a Hazirawn, but it is a +2 Magic Weapon that deals an extra +2d6 Fire per hit. As a monk weapon it can also benefit from the Monk's damage, or up to 1d10+2d6+2+Str/Dex per hit (23.5 with belt).

I also really really really like the Boomerang, I just wished it worked more often. Once per Short Rest can bring Link-style characters to the table.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Ras F on October 30, 2015, 04:54:23 AM
The Monk's Way of the Dark Soul is also pretty mediocre, it's a shame his damage heal only works on exactly 0 HP instead of less than.

I may have missed it, but nothing is covered between 0 and "instant death", in the combat section of the PHB relative to hit points. This suggests to me that there is no such thing (only regarding hit points mind) as "less than" 0 hp. If this is correct, does that alter your view of the Long Death's abilities?
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: NumberKruncher on October 30, 2015, 07:46:54 AM
The Monk's Way of the Dark Soul is also pretty mediocre, it's a shame his damage heal only works on exactly 0 HP instead of less than.

I may have missed it, but nothing is covered between 0 and "instant death", in the combat section of the PHB relative to hit points. This suggests to me that there is no such thing (only regarding hit points mind) as "less than" 0 hp. If this is correct, does that alter your view of the Long Death's abilities?
You are correct. There are no negative HP in 5e.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: SorO_Lost on October 30, 2015, 12:28:24 PM
You are correct. There are no negative HP in 5e.
Oh. Well, thats awesome!

Actually, it's more complicated than that. They stole 4th's idea that healing should instantly bring you into positives, but instead of doing that they wrote this.
Quote from: PHB
Instant Death
Massive damage can kill you instantly. When damage reduces you to 0 hit points and there is damage remaining, you die if the remaining damage equals or exceeds your hit point maximum. For example, a cleric with a maximum of 12 hit points currently has 6 hit points. If she takes 18 damage from an attack, she is reduced to 0 hit points, but 12 damage remains. Because the remaining damage equals her hit point maximum, the cleric dies.
You may have "0" HP instead of "-12", but you still track the damage. Essentially you can go to your max HP in the "negatives" from a single attack, through it implies you're supposed to track the remaining damage. Because that's not confusing at all right?  :rolleyes

And while we're at it,
Quote from: SCAG
Mastery of Death
Beginning at the 11th level, you use your familiarity with death to escape its grasp. When you are reduced to 0 hit points, you can expend 1 ki point (no action required) to have 1 hit point instead.
vs
Quote from: PHB
Relentless Rage
Starting at 11th level, your rage can keep you fighting despite grievous wounds. If you drop to 0 hit points while you’re raging and don’t die outright, you can make a DC 10 Constitution saving throw. If you succeed, you drop to 1 hit point instead.

Each time you use this feature after the first, the DC increases by 5. When you finish a short or long rest, the DC resets to 10.
Also kind of sucks, at least copypasta it for consistency or come out and say the Monk's ability is supposed to be a better than the Barbarian's.

It's not the best way to go about things.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Kremlin K.O.A. on October 31, 2015, 04:08:36 AM
SorO, the instant death rule is referencing a single attack.
So if a single attack has you at 0, and has spare damage of at least your max hp, you die.
But you can't nickel and dime up to that amount.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: SorO_Lost on October 31, 2015, 10:21:43 AM
But you can't nickel and dime up to that amount.
Maybe, misread your post. Need more coffee real quick.

Quote from:
Damage at 0 Hit Points. If you take any damage while you have 0 hit points, you suffer a death saving throw failure. If the damage is from a critical hit, you suffer two failures instead. If the damage equals or exceeds your hit point maximum, you suffer instant death.
3 Failures at any point on time since you hit 0 HP = death. So you can "nickle and dime" someone to death, but not in the Massive Damage sort of way.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: SorO_Lost on October 31, 2015, 12:29:32 PM
D&D's 1st~4th to 5th conversion manual is out (link (http://media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/dnd/DnD_Conversions_1.0.pdf)). It's mostly a 'just rebuild your character' or 'see making new race/classes in the DMG' deal.

More importantly through it lays down some quick conversion rules for monsters.
Quote
In third edition, you can use monster statistics included in an adventure as a guide. Monster distribution in this edition is fairly close to the distribution in fifth edition. As in earlier editions, such creatures often deal lower damage and have fewer hit points than their fifth edition counterparts. Most statistics in third edition include the creature’s ability scores. Use the following parameters:
• Armor Class can be an average of touch AC and actual AC, or 20 percent lower than in third edition. The upper limit is 22.
• Attack roll modifiers are the appropriate ability score modifier + 3.
• Saving throw DCs are 10 + the appropriate ability score modifier.
• If a creature has to make a check or saving throw, use its ability score modifiers. Grant it a +3 bonus if it should be good at the roll.
Monster Groups. If a group of monsters has 7 or more members, it should be evaluated to see if numbers should be reduced. Such a reduction is especially important for player characters of lower than 5th level.
Spells. For spells, use the most closely matching spells from the fifth edition Player’s Handbook. You can assign spellcasters cantrips, but doing so is optional. Third edition’s 0-level spells can be used as guidelines for such selections.
Traps. For traps, improvise by using the guidelines in chapter 5 of the Dungeon Master’s Guide. Your best tools are the Trap Save DCs and Attack Bonuses and Damage Severity by Level tables from that chapter. Keep copies of those tables handy. Also, keep falling damage in mind.
Treasure. Adventures in previous editions often contain more treasure than is common in fifth edition. In third edition, NPCs were especially rich sources of magic items. When improvising, give out only the treasure you’re happy with the characters acquiring.
So you can easily port in your favorite splat monster from 5th, except for damage figures. All well, play it in hard (easy?) mode and run it directly.

And I like the direct port on every 3rd Edition Cantrip/Orison. That opens a ton of "new" content to mess with.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Lokiyn on October 31, 2015, 01:30:41 PM
Huh, has anyone ever charted out the monsters by type and Hit dice to determine the "average" monsters in 3.5; like i know mathematically skill DC's should be roughly [2.5*X+15] where X is the level you want the player to have access to the DC, but i've never seen a charting out of monster stats across the levels.
Hmm sounds like a weekend project.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: SorO_Lost on October 31, 2015, 02:18:54 PM
Optimization by the Numbers (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=3472)
There has also been extensive charting for 5th's DPR curve, many of them make false observations but are close enough you can use them as a guideline.

And if you need a calc: Click Here (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=13046.msg231325#msg231325), through it's technically for 3rd edition.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on October 31, 2015, 03:55:07 PM
Good find SorO, I'm pleasantly surprised
they've done this ... even as thin as it is.

Certainly behind the scenes, they've got
much more detailed hard maths for 4e.

Wonder if the late wotc 4e C.O. board guys
decamped to ENWorld, are up for detailed
conversions, or are too demoralized to bother.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: SorO_Lost on October 31, 2015, 04:42:04 PM
idk, from my experience 4th was not a system you said the word "optimize", "math", or "logic" without someone getting a temper.  :P

But yeah, they finally fulfilled their promise even if it is a little thin. They would make a great politician.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Childe on October 31, 2015, 05:06:18 PM
And I like the direct port on every 3rd Edition Cantrip/Orison. That opens a ton of "new" content to mess with.
I don't think that's what it's saying at all. I think it's saying "based on what 0th level spells they had in 3.5, choose similar cantrips for them in 5e."
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: SorO_Lost on October 31, 2015, 05:34:11 PM
I don't think that's what it's saying at all. I think it's saying "based on what 0th level spells they had in 3.5, choose similar cantrips for them in 5e."
Maybe.

Yeah I see what you're meaning, but
(I seriously wish I had more than four seconds to spare a thought to any one subject today)

Read this for me

Quote
Spells
Pick spells known as if creating a new character of the appropriate level. You can base the choice of spells known on those from previous editions. Similarly, you can base your choice of cantrips on at-will powers the character knows in fourth edition.
The DM is the arbiter of whether and how a spell that doesn’t exist in fifth edition can be converted.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Childe on October 31, 2015, 05:49:20 PM
I don't think that's what it's saying at all. I think it's saying "based on what 0th level spells they had in 3.5, choose similar cantrips for them in 5e."
Maybe.

Yeah I see what you're meaning, but
(I seriously wish I had more than four seconds to spare a thought to any one subject today)

Read this for me

Quote
Spells
Pick spells known as if creating a new character of the appropriate level. You can base the choice of spells known on those from previous editions. Similarly, you can base your choice of cantrips on at-will powers the character knows in fourth edition.
The DM is the arbiter of whether and how a spell that doesn’t exist in fifth edition can be converted.
Read, and I don't think it changes anything. Basing your choice of spells known in 5e on at-wills from 4e doesn't mean you just make a 4e power become a 5e spell. If there's no analog, you can work with your DM to convert and modify appropriately, but there's no blanket equivalence rule.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on November 02, 2015, 04:44:35 PM
Yeah not a lot of exact-ness ...  :-\
But still provides a decent proxy. 
Reserve feats fit in too as possible cantrip converts.

I like how they acknowledge in 1 of the 4 (or is it 5 ?)
Treasure sections, that previous editions are High magic.
Will have to quote in whatever future WBL guide pops up.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: MrWolfe on December 02, 2015, 11:52:06 PM
I realize I'm a bit late to the party here, but since I didn't see it mentioned upthread:

Sleep is by far the best first level offensive spell in the PHB for use against a single target.

Against a lone opponent it packs the same punch as a 3rd level fireball--at nearly the same range--but doesn't offer a save or require an attack roll. In fact, since Sleep doesn't actually deal damage, it's not affected by any kind of damage resistance, healing, or abilities that kick in when you get reduced to 0 HP. The only defense is to be flat out immune to sleep or enchantment, to be surrounded by minions with less HP than you to suck up the effect, or to have something like Counterspell or Globe of Invulnerability that shuts down low level spells. Of course, those will shut down most other spells you could use as well.

It also scales ridiculously well. When cast at the same level, it outperforms most damaging spells in terms of how many HP a creature has to have to keep from being one-shotted. If cast using a 3rd level slot, it vastly outperforms fireball--offering almost twice the HP worth of instant incapacitation. (9d8 vs 5d8) Cast as a 6th level spell, it's more likely to drop a target than Circle of Death or Harm. With a 7th level slot it has more hit points of effect than Finger of Death, and with a 9th level slot it comes in just below Power Word Kill on average (94.5 HP vs 100)--though it's max damage is much higher. (168 HP)

The main downsides are that many creatures are immune to sleep and/or enchantment, the effect is divided up among the targets rather than applied to all of them (unlike most damaging AoE spells), and that it only knocks the target unconscious for up to a minute, which can be a problem if you wanted to loot the bodies or not have to worry about them waking up later.

Still, with ten rounds to buff and set up, I'm sure the average party can work out a more permanent solution to an unconscious opponent. :smirk
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: SorO_Lost on December 03, 2015, 01:24:38 AM
Sleep is by far the best first level offensive spell in the PHB for use against a single target.
Not really.

On a failed save, and assuming 5d8>their HP and they are not Undead or immune to Charm, Sleep renders them unconscious for ten rounds. At that point you can starting running away from the encounter with a high chance of success, which flight or mounts, or fast running speeds can already do..... Oh you meant offensively. Well you get one double-dice attack against it then it just wakes up.

Which means it really just deals 8d10 (44) damage if you follow up with a Cantrip, which is only two points higher than a Warlock using Antagonizing Blast except his is Saveless and works against any type of Creature of any CR or remaining HP.

and with a 9th level slot it comes in just below Power Word Kill on average (94.5 HP vs 100)--though it's max damage is much higher. (168 HP)
Or you could use a 7th level Slot to banish them to one of the elemental planes they won't survive on. Heck choose the Swamp of Oblivion and they can't return for 100 years so unless you're an elf and your target is another such long lived creature problem solved.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: MrWolfe on December 03, 2015, 05:19:58 AM
Sleep is by far the best first level offensive spell in the PHB for use against a single target.
Not really.

On a failed save,...

Sleep doesn't allow a save.

...and assuming 5d8>their HP...

That's 22.5 HP on average at level 1. I'll admit I haven't taken a good look at the DMG or the Monster Manual yet, are there a lot of sub-CR2 enemies with more HP than that?

Using a bigger spell slot gets you an average +9 HP per additional level of the slot used, but since you gain higher level slots more slowly than you gain levels that's not going to keep up with the bigger HD creatures too well. Probably better tactics after level 1 to start whittling enemies down a bit before dropping a Sleep-nuke on them. Following up a big evocation spell with Sleep is more effective than casting the same evocation twice in most cases.

...and they are not Undead or immune to Charm,...

Or elves, half-elves, constructs, or anything else that doesn't sleep. That's definitely one of the big weaknesses of Sleep, which I mentioned in my post.

...Sleep renders them unconscious for ten rounds. At that point you can starting running away from the encounter with a high chance of success, which flight or mounts, or fast running speeds can already do..... Oh you meant offensively. Well you get one double-dice attack against it then it just wakes up.

Or, y'know, you could be smart and have your party gather around to attack them all at once. Four double-dice attacks are bound to be more effective than one, especially if the whole party novas.

You could also take advantage of the fact that unconscious creatures auto-fail Str and Dex saves. I'm sure there are various ways to restrain or immobilize a target that could prove effective if you don't think your team can take them out with a round of auto-crit curbstoping. Again, it's generally better to combo Sleep with another spell than end up casting that other spell multiple times waiting for your enemy to fail a save or for the damage to stack up.

...Which means it really just deals 8d10 (44) damage if you follow up with a Cantrip, which is only two points higher than a Warlock using Antagonizing Blast...

Well, it could be as much as 8d12 (54 avg) with a cantrip if you use Poison Spray, but Warlocks can also take Sleep as one of their spells if they go with the Archfey patron. I believe the average crit damage for an Agonizing Eldritch Blast is 84 (16+5 x 4 beams), assuming max 20 Cha and level 17+. Thought I recalled seeing something around here about an errata nerfing crits with multi-beam spells, but it isn't in the latest errata doc. In any event each beam would crit since they all hit at once and attacks auto-crit unconscious targets.

...except his is Saveless and works against any type of Creature of any CR or remaining HP.

Eldritch Blast requires an attack roll, as does Firebolt and most other damaging cantrips. You get advantage on attack rolls against unconscious targets within 5ft, but you don't auto hit. Create Bonfire is a dex save cantrip that deals 8d8 on a crit at lvl 17+, Sacred Flame is does this as well, and Acid Splash is dex save or take 8d6 on a crit, and can hit two adjacent targets.

and with a 9th level slot it comes in just below Power Word Kill on average (94.5 HP vs 100)--though it's max damage is much higher. (168 HP)
Or you could use a 7th level Slot to banish them to one of the elemental planes they won't survive on. Heck choose the Swamp of Oblivion and they can't return for 100 years so unless you're an elf and your target is another such long lived creature problem solved.

Which spell would this be?

Banishment is a 4th level spell than can only send it's target to it's home plane or a harmless demiplane. It also allows a save which Sleep does not. I'm not finding a 7th level spell that does what you describe--although in the interest of full disclosure a 6th level Disintegrate is one of the few damaging spells that has better one-shot capability than Sleep cast with an equivalent level slot.

A 6th level Sleep affects 15d8 HP (Min: 15 Avr: 67.5 Max: 120), Disinregrate does 10d6+40 (Min: 50 Avr: 75 Max: 100), though only on a failed Dex save. On a successful save disintegrate does nothing, making it a better candidate for mop-up duty after Sleep has knocked your foe unconscious.

Better to test the target's reflex DC with a low level spell or a cantrip on the first round while letting your allies bring down the target's HP a bit. If you're really confident they'll fail, give Disintegrate a try. If not, dropping a 6th level sleep on them first is better than casting Disintegrate twice and potentially having them make the save both times.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Wilb on December 03, 2015, 09:06:53 AM
SorO was referring to Plane shift, which can indeed banish creatures to a plane of the caster's choice and is a 7th level spell...
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: TenaciousJ on December 03, 2015, 09:58:37 AM
I don't want to mass-quote just for these quick little replies.

Planeshift has "a metal rod worth at least 250 gp, attuned to a particular plane of existence" as a material component.  Some DMs may make that difficult to come by, and it cannot be ignored due to the gold cost.

I seem to remember a chart somewhere of average statistics per CR.  I will edit it in if I find it again.  Going by the DMG, 22.5 HP on average will put a single CR 1/8 creature to sleep if the guidelines for creating monsters by CR lines up with averages of the Monster Manual.  Fireball is not a spell used for single target damage, IMO.  It's a mook killer unless multiple party members are all going to use AOEs, and then the cumulative damage might actually add up and take out more than just cannon fodder before they can act.  Playing a god caster still seems to pay off more than blasting since most control spells will grant advantage to everyone else in the party (and sometimes auto criticals).  Sleep DOES however work on current HP, not max, so mid-fight it might actually take a turn away from something threatening and offering up a free critical to the party's rogue or paladin.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: SorO_Lost on December 03, 2015, 12:35:41 PM
Playing a god caster still seems to pay off more than blasting since most control spells will grant advantage to everyone else in the party (and sometimes auto criticals).
You know, I almost wonder if the Bard isn't the king of God play now.

I mean, a Bard can snag Sleep (:rolleyes), Contagion, Planesshift, and still have three any-spells left open and they already have stuff like Polymorph, healing, Raise Dead, and several puzzle solving spells. Inspiration is a very nice ability after the 5th level when you can blow five dice every Encounter too, Lore Bards can even impose penalties with it too.

You just don't get the free stuff like a focused Wizard does, totally dependent on Spell Slots, skill mastery, and Inspire. Pretty much, God in 3.5.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: TenaciousJ on December 03, 2015, 01:31:10 PM
Lore Bard would be in 5e's highest tier for sure, but from my experience so far Abjurer and Diviner go up there too in the same role.  Enchanter and Arcane Cleric might belong too, but I'm waiting to see someone play either one first.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: MrWolfe on December 03, 2015, 02:35:04 PM
SorO was referring to Plane shift, which can indeed banish creatures to a plane of the caster's choice and is a 7th level spell...

Yeah, missed the paragraph at the end of Plane Shift that says you can use it on unwilling targets. However it does say that it banishes them to a random plane--not one of your choosing. Depending on the target and the plane they end up on, they might be able to pop right back on their turn.

@Tenacious:

IIRC, there were a couple links to averaged out monster stats by CR way upthread. I took a look but the formatting was shit-terrible. Might give parsing it another try.

Fireball may not be a single target spell, (neither is sleep for that matter) but it's got the highest damage of any 3rd level spell--which is why I used it for my initial comparison. Like I said, Sleep affects a higher HP total than most damaging spells when cast with the same level slot--regardless of whether they're single-target or area spells. As for other control spells, most of those allow a save or require an attack roll. Sleep is one of the few that requires neither. If you're the only target in the radius and you're not immune, your HP is the only thing that can save you.

Since Sleep doesn't actually deal damage, there is the problem that you can't "stack" it's effects across multiple castings. This makes Sleep better as a follow-up spell rather than an opener, but the fact remains that on any given round, Sleep is more likely to take a single target out of the fight than most damaging spells. Depending on your save DCs, there's also a pretty good chance that it would be more effective than casting a save-or-die. No risk of your enemy rolling good on a save if they aren't allowed one in the first place.

After a quick check of the MM, it appears that enemies are supposed to have way more HP than even the toughest party members encountering them. While even a 1st level Barbarian caps out at 17 HP, (1d12 +5, assuming he somehow manages to get 20 Con at chargen) a lowly CR 1/8th bandit has 11 HP, (2d8+2) and the CR 2 bandit captain has 65 HP, (10d8+20!) which is just farging ridiculous.

While this does make one-shotting enemies with Sleep pretty unlikely, it also makes attacks that do HP damage even worse. I suppose that does make save-or-dies the better option, assuming you can rely on your target failing their save. Seems like it's better to target saves than AC at any rate, since AC appears easier to buff up to high levels.

Hmm, also makes positioning a bigger concern. Casting Sleep into melee would be a good way to get a party wipe, since even at full health your teammates are likely to have much less HP than the thing they're fighting. :tongue
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Gnomes2169 on December 04, 2015, 08:50:02 PM
Sleep does not scale well enough to actually remain viable after level 2-3, as monster HP scales far faster than the party's CR (basically monsters tend to have the HP of at least two party members at their CR, and much higher at CR 1). Just looking through the monster manual, most monsters of CR2 have 39-45 HP, while at CR3 HP tends towards the 45-60 range. Against mobs it will likely KO a few minions for a few seconds. Against far larger beasts or solo encounters, the monster will typically be immune, just have so much HP that you are likely going to KO one of your party members close to it is damaged at all (since it targets the lowest HP total first), or you have to rely on the power of RNG to save you, which is almost never a good idea.

Shield is just generally a better option for your lower level spell slots... or if you are a bard, healing word and bless are better uses of your level 1 known spells. Sorcerer's do not have a spell known slot to waste on it after level 1 (though it's a decent option AT level 1), and Wizards are usually better off memorizing other spells from their list after level 1 (though they can afford to scribe it into their spell books at level 1). Direct damage spells that actually damage a target's HP, debuffs like hold person that do not immediately disappear on a hit, and even healing or warding your allies from harm mid-combat will generally impact the battle far more directly than sleep
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: MrWolfe on December 06, 2015, 02:19:56 PM
To be fair, it scales better than any damaging spell of it's level. +2d8/slot is kinda nuts. It's just that monster HP apparently laughs at damage spells.

As for relying on the power of RNG to save you--that's why I don't like most other offensive spells. Saves are very swingy, as are attack rolls. With sleep, the only random part is the strength of the effect--and when rolling multiple dice you've got a better chance of an average result than with a single d20. Bell curve and all that.

Any decently coordinated team can avoid the risk of hitting party members by having the melee characters make their attacks and then back off, with the caster readying an action to cast once they're out of range. You might have to worry about your fighters eating an op, but if they'd stayed in for another round chances are they'd be getting attacked anyway...

...although going over the PHB, it looks like there's no longer any limit to the number of opportunity attacks you can make--so if your party has more melee combatants than the monster has attacks a group retreat would be worse than just hanging in for another round.

Also, bear in mind that most spells like hold person offer a save every round to shake it off. It may not disappear on a hit, but it's got a chance to disappear each round regardless of what you do. With how variable saves are, that strikes me as much less reliable than sleep, which puts them out for the duration unless someone specifically takes an action to wake them up.

You're right about shield and other defensive/healing abilities being more useful--but you'll note that in my original post I said sleep was the best offensive 1st level spell to use against a single opponent. Obviously there might be some difference once you step outside that narrow category.

Honestly, I think Shield and Absorb Elements are my favorite first level spells. Even if they only last for 1 round, being able to potentially no-sell an attack as a reaction with a single 1st level slot is awesome--especially if you go the route of building an Abjuration Tank Wizard.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: TenaciousJ on December 06, 2015, 03:24:38 PM
Opportunity attacks DO have a limit normally.  You need a reaction to take one (unless you have the tunnel fighter style from the new Underdark UA).  Shocking Grasp works the way it does primarily to be an escape tool that does damage.

To add on to this:  Shocking Grasp, Arms of Hadar, and Open Palm Technique all take away reactions.  Besides avoiding opportunity attacks, these can shut off or bait things like Shield, Counterspell, Parry, etc.

As a DM for an Abjuration Wizard, I have had to be very creative so that I can sometimes use spellcasting villains because of Counterspell.  Counterspell has a 60 ft. range and specifies that the counterspeller must see the spell being cast.  If the villain's spell does not have components, either through Subtle Spell or from innate spellcasting, there's nothing to counter.  Similarly, an unseen caster due to invisibility or good stealth checks can avoid Counterspells.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: MrWolfe on December 06, 2015, 11:07:32 PM
Right, I was in a hurry when I checked my book and missed the part about attacks of opportunity using your reaction.

Good point about shocking grasp/Arms of Hadar. May have to reconsider the usefulness of those. As for counterspell, remember that you have to roll an ability check if the spell is cast with a higher level slot than the one you used to counterspell with. I could be mistaken, but I don't think you get your proficiency bonus on that either, which means on an average roll of 10 you'd only be able to counter up to a 5th level spell. You can cast with a higher level slot to avoid having to roll, but you only have so many of those and without a way to identify spells as they are being cast you have no idea what slot you need.

Hm. Fun Find of the day: Apparently there are no rules for identifying a spell as it is cast in 5th ed? At least, I'm not seeing any rules for it in the magic section of the PHB.

Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: TenaciousJ on December 07, 2015, 12:25:14 AM
I don't think you get your proficiency bonus on that either, which means on an average roll of 10 you'd only be able to counter up to a 5th level spell.

Abjurers get proficiency to the roll, Bards get half proficiency to the roll (Jack of All Trades), Lore Bards can also use Peerless Skill on it, and Warlocks after a point automatically cast it at 5th level.    I brought up the point about how to avoid Counterspell for those situations, and for a DM to make an encounter just that much harder without having to make enemies numerically stronger.

If half of proficiency from a level 2 Bard dip for Jack of All Trades counts for the conditions set by an 11th level Rogue's Reliable Talent, an Arcane Trickster/Bard would have a really easy time using Counterspell for higher level spells too.  It's probably worth figuring out if Jack of All Trades works with Reliable Talent for other reasons too...  If I had a twitter, I'd send that question to Jeremy Crawford.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: MrWolfe on December 07, 2015, 01:41:21 AM
Ah, Abjurers get the ability to add their proficiency bonus at 10th level. Honestly though, counterspelling is probably one of the worst things a Warlock can spend their slots on. You get too few of them for it to matter much, even if it is guaranteed to function at your highest level. At best your opponent uses his highest level spells first, and has to rely on peppering you with slightly lower level slots once you run out. At worst you spend all your slots stopping cantrips, then get hammered when they roll out the big guns. :p
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: TenaciousJ on December 07, 2015, 10:58:38 AM
https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/672870411428696064

Quote from: Jeremy Crawford
For a rogue/fighter or rogue/bard, Reliable Talent does work with Remarkable Athlete and Jack of All Trades.

An 11th level rogue with a 2 level dip into Bard or 7 levels in Champion Fighter will never go below a 17 on initiative, assuming maxed out Dexterity by those levels.  The Bard dip looks better and better for skill-monkeying with that ruling, and there's the Counterspell example above.  What else useful comes out of that combination?
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on December 07, 2015, 05:50:35 PM
I'm wondering about a build tactic.

Push defense to the very front and
handing out lots of disadvantages.
I'm thinking this is quite i.p.proof-y
and cuts down on condition tags.

But then having the War cleric 2
ability as a back pocket trump card.
Something like (with ? on the order):
War Cleric 2 / Paladin 6 / Lore Bard 11 / x1

Anybody feeling this idea, or improvements ?
(or replacements)
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: SorO_Lost on September 10, 2016, 04:47:25 PM
I cast Summon Undead!

Speaking of 5th, the Storm King's Thunder Adventure was released some time ago and I figured I'd share some information about it. There is a Potion of Giant Size (legendary) that when drunk makes you become Huge, Str is set to 25, your current HP is doubled, your Reach is increased by 5th, it affects all your items, and your weapons deal triple their base damage (like a long sword deals 3d8 now). No notation on how long it lasts but any HP left over is kept as Temporary HP which is nice.

Items with multiple effects is also the new standard. Like the Ingot of Skold Rune gives you a +1 bonus to AC and it can be used as a Bonus Action to reduce the damage to an ally to 1 point but you take half of the prevented damage. But I kind of like the Stein Rune, anyone moving within 10ft of you need to make a DC12 Str Check to continue moving forward, negates Petrify, 1/rest Meld Into Stone, and like the rest you can destroy it to add a bonus to another item. I guess theoretically you can gather all of the runes and burn them all to create some very powerful gear like a DDO ingredient grind.

Also there is a floating Artifact throne that, and I shit you not on any of this, can fly through stone walls and summon ghostly blue dragon appendages to beat the crap out of your opponents. It has 9 charges and by expending three of them it produces a Ancient Blue Dragon's Bite & 2 claws for one minute. Imagine burning all your charges for an Asura-Dragon that makes nine extra attacks during your turn.

Buried on Page 35 is Pixie Dust which has a 70% chance of granting someone Fly 60ft for 10 minutes. 10% chance of puts you to sleep, confuses you, or renders you invisible for one hour. get out your butterfly nets and capture Tinkerbell for all kinds of abuse.

Like any MMO the adventure has a bunch of side quests you can undertake now offer by certain NPCs. You "unlock" the ability to pick and choose which ones to start after reaching the 5th level (aka chapter 2). There is also a list of random Events Encounters, they are scripted much closer to DDO/Skyrim which is honestly a step up from the typical roll for X monster. And there is even per-programmed NPC dialogue with a 6 charge Oracle with 22 preset answers for what the PCs should be asking about. They even give you the ability to DDO style recall out of a dungeon after completion in the form of a horn that teleports you to the next quest.

Airships return too, OotS current arc probably gives you all the needed information of the setting (probably). The NPC stat blocks are now pretty cut outs with a photo of their head.

No new Class stuff through.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: jameswastaken on September 13, 2016, 08:21:08 PM
Found a pretty sweet combo multi classing with the new ranger re work.

If you take 3 levels in Rogue (assassin) and 6 levels in Ranger (deep stalker) you can do a lot of damage on a surprise round at 9th level.

Hope i'm reading the rules on assassinate properly.



Here is how it goes:
*All of these attacks will have advantage and auto crit (ill double all the dice numbers) due to assassinate.


Bonus Action: Cast hunter's mark on enemy who is surprised +1d6 for each hit against target

Action: Attack
2d8(longbow)+4d6(sneak attack) +2d6(hunter's mark) +4 (assuming greater favored enemy).

Extra Attack (level 5 ranger ability.)
2d8(longbow) 2d6(hunter's mark)  +4 (assuming greater favored enemy).

Additional Attack (level 3 Deep Stalker ability "Underdark Scout".)
2d8(longbow) 2d6(hunter's mark)  +4 (assuming greater favored enemy).

Total: 6d8 + 10d6 + 12

Total without auto crit: 3d8 +5d6 + 12
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: linklord231 on September 13, 2016, 09:22:50 PM
I don't think Extra Attack from different sources stack. Don't have the books with me to check though.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: jameswastaken on September 13, 2016, 10:10:47 PM
Thanks for pointing that out, I have mislabel it calling it "Extra Attack". Here is a description of the Deep Stalker ability that gives you the additional attack on page 8 of the pdf.

"Underdark Scout
At 3rd level, you master the art of the ambush.
On your first turn during combat, you gain a +10 bonus to your speed, and if you use the attack action, you can make one additional attack."

http://media.wizards.com/2016/dnd/downloads/UA_RevisedRanger.pdf


You are correct, I just checked the phb and that is a rule (pg 164).

"If you gain the Extra Attack class feature from more than one class, the Features don't add together. You can't make more than two attacks with this feature unless it says you do (as the fighter's version of Extra Attack does). Similarly, the warlock's eldritch invocation Thirsting Blade doesn't give you additional attacks if you also have Extra Attack."


You gain the additional attack (Underdark Scout) and extra attack both from the same class/ranger conclave so i think this rule doesn't apply? I may be wrong.

I have edited my post to make this more clear.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: TenaciousJ on September 13, 2016, 11:11:57 PM
Winning initiative isn't sufficient to make the enemies surprised for Assassinate, just fyi.  It's a less reliable feature RAW than people make it out to be, but for theoretical purposes it's powerful.

If you're theorycrafting, don't even bother with level 6 of Deep Stalker.  Go 3 Assassin, 3 Deep Stalker, 11 Battle Master.  The Deep Stalker's level 3 feature works with Extra Attack, so get the best Extra Attack from fighter with superiority dice that can be included in the critical rolls.  4 attacks with fighter's Extra Attack plus Deep Stalker's Underdark Scout.  Action Surge for 4 more attacks, since Underdark Scout works when you take the Attack action on the first round of combat.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: sambojin on September 17, 2016, 12:00:00 AM
Just for funsies:

Be a Ranger with the MI feat and choose the Friends cantrip. Level into Beast Conclave. Immediately cast Friends on your new pal, and at every available opportunity. You are theoretically still in control of their actions.

Congratulations, you are the worst pet owner ever! They hate you so much......

They probably should too......
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: 8wGremlin on September 22, 2016, 11:29:29 PM
Fun Find:

Fighter: Scout from http://media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/dnd/04_UA_Classics_Revisited.pdf

it's 3rd level ability states
Quote
Natural Explorer
At 3rd level, you gain the ranger class feature of the same name, with the following alteration: You choose additional favored terrain types at 7th and  15th level.

Now with the revised ranger http://media.wizards.com/2016/dnd/UA_RevisedRanger.pdf That becomes
Quote
Natural Explorer
You are a master of navigating the natural world,
and you react with swift and decisive action
when attacked. This grants you the following
benefits:
• You ignore difficult terrain.
• You have advantage on initiative rolls.
• On your first turn during combat, you have
advantage on attack rolls against creatures
that have not yet acted.
In addition, you are skilled at navigating the
wilderness. You gain the following benefits when
traveling for an hour or more:
• Difficult terrain doesn’t slow your group’s
travel.
• Your group can’t become lost except by
magical means.
• Even when you are engaged in another activity
while traveling (such as foraging, navigating,
or tracking), you remain alert to danger.
• If you are traveling alone, you can move
stealthily at a normal pace.
• When you forage, you find twice as much food
as you normally would.
• While tracking other creatures, you also learn
their exact number, their sizes, and how long
ago they passed through the area.

not bad on the fighter chassis...
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: TenaciousJ on September 23, 2016, 12:24:57 AM
That's a pretty sketchy interpretation taking advantage of two sets of playtest material that may not see publication, but it's RAW.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: 8wGremlin on September 23, 2016, 03:38:28 AM
That's a pretty sketchy interpretation taking advantage of two sets of playtest material that may not see publication, but it's RAW.

oh, I know that it's on thin ice, and very very prone to "book to head" but thought it should be pointed out!
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on September 23, 2016, 04:14:25 PM
Quite tasty indeed.

Same idea as the Spell-less Ranger using BM stuff.

Dex Fighter with this, could get the drop on a Dex Monk w Alert.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Nytemare3701 on September 23, 2016, 06:36:18 PM
I'm concerned about what that the abilities of that revised ranger mean for the basic rules...
Quote
Even when you are engaged in another activity
while traveling (such as foraging, navigating,
or tracking), you remain alert to danger.

Implying that these things make you oblivious normally...

Quote
• While tracking other creatures, you also learn
their exact number, their sizes, and how long
ago they passed through the area.

Wait, isn't this what tracking is normally for?
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: RedWarlock on September 23, 2016, 07:49:49 PM
That's a pretty sketchy interpretation taking advantage of two sets of playtest material that may not see publication, but it's RAW.

oh, I know that it's on thin ice, and very very prone to "book to head" but thought it should be pointed out!
One of the WotC writers tweeted the new-ranger/scout-fighter thing as a legit interpretation. Can't find the tweet, but I saw it last night.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on September 24, 2016, 02:25:01 PM
Well then  :clap ... there's a new Alpha Striker in town.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: TenaciousJ on September 25, 2016, 12:20:15 PM
That's a pretty sketchy interpretation taking advantage of two sets of playtest material that may not see publication, but it's RAW.

oh, I know that it's on thin ice, and very very prone to "book to head" but thought it should be pointed out!
One of the WotC writers tweeted the new-ranger/scout-fighter thing as a legit interpretation. Can't find the tweet, but I saw it last night.

If it didn't come from Crawford, I'd take it with a grain of salt, but in my mind that means an official version of the Scout fighter will have its own archetype feature instead of referencing the ranger feature.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: RedWarlock on September 25, 2016, 06:31:28 PM
That's a pretty sketchy interpretation taking advantage of two sets of playtest material that may not see publication, but it's RAW.

oh, I know that it's on thin ice, and very very prone to "book to head" but thought it should be pointed out!
One of the WotC writers tweeted the new-ranger/scout-fighter thing as a legit interpretation. Can't find the tweet, but I saw it last night.

If it didn't come from Crawford, I'd take it with a grain of salt, but in my mind that means an official version of the Scout fighter will have its own archetype feature instead of referencing the ranger feature.
I could swear he said it, but looking back on his timeline, I'm not seeing the tweet. I'm wondering if he changed his mind and deleted the tweet after.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: TenaciousJ on September 27, 2016, 12:28:52 PM
That's a pretty sketchy interpretation taking advantage of two sets of playtest material that may not see publication, but it's RAW.

oh, I know that it's on thin ice, and very very prone to "book to head" but thought it should be pointed out!
One of the WotC writers tweeted the new-ranger/scout-fighter thing as a legit interpretation. Can't find the tweet, but I saw it last night.

If it didn't come from Crawford, I'd take it with a grain of salt, but in my mind that means an official version of the Scout fighter will have its own archetype feature instead of referencing the ranger feature.
I could swear he said it, but looking back on his timeline, I'm not seeing the tweet. I'm wondering if he changed his mind and deleted the tweet after.

https://twitter.com/mikemearls/status/779180922797076480

It came from Mearls.  He's an idea guy but not very consistent about rules, and he doesn't seem to have much if any input into things like Sage Advice that clarify rules interactions or balancing.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: RedWarlock on September 27, 2016, 09:40:09 PM
That's a pretty sketchy interpretation taking advantage of two sets of playtest material that may not see publication, but it's RAW.

oh, I know that it's on thin ice, and very very prone to "book to head" but thought it should be pointed out!
One of the WotC writers tweeted the new-ranger/scout-fighter thing as a legit interpretation. Can't find the tweet, but I saw it last night.

If it didn't come from Crawford, I'd take it with a grain of salt, but in my mind that means an official version of the Scout fighter will have its own archetype feature instead of referencing the ranger feature.
I could swear he said it, but looking back on his timeline, I'm not seeing the tweet. I'm wondering if he changed his mind and deleted the tweet after.

https://twitter.com/mikemearls/status/779180922797076480

It came from Mearls.  He's an idea guy but not very consistent about rules, and he doesn't seem to have much if any input into things like Sage Advice that clarify rules interactions or balancing.
Ah, there we go. He just replied, rather than quote-replying like usual. No wonder I had trouble.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: TenaciousJ on December 29, 2016, 09:23:04 PM
I wasn't too sure of this before, but I've found out it's RAW:

https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/637669202036322304

Per this collection of tweets, Eldritch knight fighters and all rangers can use their spells gained from Magic Initiate with their slots.  Reviewing the PHB and the UA revision, the ranger lacks a key word in its Spell Slots paragraph.  Other spells known classes specify that their slots are for <class> spells known.  Ranger and Eldritch Knight do not have that wording.  Bard and Arcane Trickster also lack that wording, while the rest of the spells known classes specifically call out their own class for their slots.

I can speculate why bard would not need that wording, though Magical Secrets explicitly converts spells into bard spells.

So anyway these classes and archetypes get to use their Magical Secrets with their slots per RAW:
Bard
Eldritch Knight
Arcane Trickster
Ranger (PHB and UA versions)

Is there anything interesting that can be done with that?
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: 8wGremlin on December 30, 2016, 03:46:09 PM
Quote from: TenaciousJ

So anyway these classes and archetypes get to use their Magical Secrets with their slots per RAW:
Bard
Eldritch Knight
Arcane Trickster
Ranger (PHB and UA versions)

Is there anything interesting that can be done with that?


Magic initiate: (Warlock) Hex is now usable?
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on December 30, 2016, 04:22:10 PM
hmm , I recall that tweet-rata , but I think the (gone) wotc c.o. ignored this kind of class specifics.
I'm willing to admit "they" were wrong  :p

But how does this change EK with MI feat , that then goes into Wizard or Warlock or both?
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Wilb on December 30, 2016, 07:10:48 PM
hmm , I recall that tweet-rata , but I think the (gone) wotc c.o. ignored this kind of class specifics.
I'm willing to admit "they" were wrong  :p

But how does this change EK with MI feat , that then goes into Wizard or Warlock or both?

Well, according to the multiclass rules, they would prepare them as the respective casting class that allows such, with the strange side effect of using the spellcasting ability that pertains to the class that prepares the spell, not the spell itself, as far as I can tell.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: sambojin on December 30, 2016, 07:51:16 PM
Well, you could grab a couple of Sorc levels and use your MI spell through burned higher slots or sorc points as a bard/EK/AT/Ranger. Font and Flexible Casting doesn't have the "class spells" bit either, so fits in with MI for those class's slots.

Might be handy if you want an absolute tonne of Goodberries, but really don't want to level into Druid for them (you'll be levelling into Sorc instead though).

Don't know if that's actually worth it, but it is something you could do, if you really wanted to.



Bless and Hex are usually nice to have around, even without Sorc-slot-spamming.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: TenaciousJ on December 31, 2016, 02:32:31 AM
Magic Initiate: warlock indeed looks very attractive to the Eldritch Knight.  Hex and Booming Blade are both independent of casting ability score modifiers and fit on any of the listed classes, and Hex is particularly useful on the Eldritch Knight for its number of attacks a fighter gets.

It's a neat trick for a bard I suppose, but a bard has better things to concentrate on than Hex most of the time.  It's a solid choice if you really wanted to make a Lore bard blaster with Eldritch Blast and something like Scorching Ray as a Magical Secret.  I think I'd prefer MI: sorcerer for bard more because Shield is such a fantastic spell to shore up defenses and saves your Bardic Inspiration uses you might have normally used on Cutting Words to protect yourself.

Similarly, I like MI:wizard for ranger because of Booming Blade and Shield.  Hex isn't necessary for a ranger because of Hunter's Mark.

Arcane Trickster is the difficult one to select.  Hex isn't all that hot when you only attack once per turn.  Shield is already available for it and I can't come up with another 1st level spell on the wizard list that would compete for the AT's off-school spell.  I suppose MI for Shield allows a free use of it and opens up the 1st level off-school spell for Find Familiar, which is quite useful for a rogue but isn't as beneficial to have as an extra 1/long rest spell.  It still seems a little fringe because a rogue has a lot of ways to avoid being in a situation that begs for Shield in the first place.

Booming Blade comes out of this looking really good because it makes 3 MIs more attractive.  Even for the AT and EK that could access it anyway, it opens up a default cantrip choice, since it doesn't really matter where Booming Blade is coming from for functionality.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on December 31, 2016, 02:41:38 PM
(odd thinking , might be the slightly off egg-nog) ...

Cha > Con > Wis > 3 dump stats , on Fighter EK , no that can't work can it ?
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: TenaciousJ on December 31, 2016, 03:01:36 PM
(odd thinking , might be the slightly off egg-nog) ...

Cha > Con > Wis > 3 dump stats , on Fighter EK , no that can't work can it ?

How would you take advantage of War Magic and Eldritch Strike?  You could not rely on weapons for the EK's features without 1 decent physical score.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on December 31, 2016, 03:12:33 PM
No ?

Magic Initiate: warlock indeed looks very attractive to the Eldritch Knight.  Hex and Booming Blade are both independent of casting ability score modifiers and fit on any of the listed classes, and Hex is particularly useful on the Eldritch Knight for its number of attacks a fighter gets ...

< I did mention egg-nog >
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: SorO_Lost on December 31, 2016, 04:01:08 PM
If the EK can spam Hex that's pretty nice and it helps bring it closer to a Champion's nuke. Plus the disadvantage trait of Hex can be pretty useful.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: sambojin on January 01, 2017, 02:47:24 PM
For a Trickster, Bless/Guidance/Sacred Flame from cleric isn't too bad. Bless up's accuracy for your stabs, Guidance keeps your skills ticking even while you're by yourself, and SF gives you a backup non-AC'y damage type (that's admittedly pretty poor). Could sub out SF for Resistance if you're expected to deal with lots of traps/poisons/whatever for the party, but Guidance sort of covers the not-failing part of that already, rather than dealing with the have-failed part of it (and Bless does resistances if you really need them as well).


Faerie Fire/Guidance/Create Bonfire from druid might be worth a look-in too. FF for advantage for stabbing (a dex-saved action cast though, but with some anti-invis/anti-hide for later on), Guidance for the D4s, and CB to let you do some creative pyromancy in conjunction with Mage Hand (or as a distraction). Mending could also be handy if you think you'll have to cover-up the evidence of your break-and-enters at some point too. Probably a better package than the cleric's, because of its solo potential and the fact that druids/bards are almost always concentrating/casting something else anyway (or in WS). High Wis requirement for reliability needed though (or they're essentially caltrops in spell form, so pretty bad).


They're not great, but the MI "packages" aren't too bad overall for an AT. Even though the spells are action-cast, they're good for you and the whole party, while also letting you really rogue well while off alone. I tend to look at MI as a package, rather than a "killer spell/utility", and they're not bad when thought of like that for AT.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: TenaciousJ on January 01, 2017, 03:30:29 PM
The reason I like the Hex and Shield packages is that no one can do those for you.  Regardless of party makeup, those are great to have.  There is some merit in freeing up the party's cleric/druid from concentrating on low level buffs, but I'd really love to have some useful stat-independent cantrips on the cleric and druid lists that do not use concentration to make the package really great for the Arcane Trickster.

For ranger, cleric and druid is a great choice, though I'll refer to what I previously said about sorcerer/wizard for them.

Here's to hoping for some gishy divine cantrips in the future.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: sambojin on January 01, 2017, 04:03:33 PM
Strangely enough, that's why I like the MI stuff I listed for AT. You're probably more likely to be off alone than anyone else (which removes all easy advantage/Sneak Attack options other than hiding), you're pretty likely to have your concentration free at any point, you absolutely need advantage or group coordination to stab stuff reliably, and everything else you do is entirely stat/roll dependant as well. A "missed turn/attack action" by you is less of a loss on average than most, because it's often situational and very RNG-swingy on rolls, so kind of unreliable anyway. Especially on the first turn of combat, because you'll often go first with your high initiative (not necessarily with surprise), so you might not be able to generate advantage/"flanking" for a stab anyway. So you may as well be the one casting a buff rather than using your single crappy attack. Yes, you could "ready action" your way down the initiative order to flank, but now you don't necessarily have to (and that can be fairly unreliable as well, due to unexpected outcomes or actions).

Even with a good party (so you can get down to what you do best without self-casting all the time), you're still quite handy to have around with those spells. Having another copy of Guidance in a party isn't a waste, it's just more total initiative to spread around. A blessbot/FFFag can add more to total party damage than a single stab would do sometimes (especially if people are nova'ing), but there's a bit of other utility to these spells as well. FF gets a little better with Magical Ambusher at 9th level (so does Sacred Flame and Bonfire, a tiny bit), but loses a bit at 13th (just bitch slap 'em for advantage, though FF is still multi-target whole-party advantage for you, but it's still not reliable enough), so there's varying levels of internal synergy from these spells with a Trickster. Hiding is often advantage anyway, but not for potentially a full minute. If you're great at hiding, Bless looks better than FF, because it always works. High Wis ain't easy to get if you want your AT-wizard Intelligence casting to work DC-wise, but it's still a better stat in general.

Shield is awesome, but it only does one thing, and you can already get it. Admittedly it does the most important thing, and more is better, so there is that to it :)


((this was mostly to show that my ideas weren't entirely for rogue-in-a-vacuum-by-himself kind of thing. You'd be surprised how rarely bless/FF gets cast at later levels, because clerics/druids/bards really do have better things to do with their concentration. But they're still very good spells to have cast, and you really don't have better stuff to think about in combat. You've just got to decide if 1 stab (if you even can stab first turn) is better than a buff or not for the party in that particular encounter. It makes you good solo, good in the party, and just generally handy to have around. Shield "only" keeps you alive.....))
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: TenaciousJ on January 01, 2017, 07:34:00 PM
The Shield and Hex comments weren't for the AT, just to clarify.  One or the other is great for the bard, EK, and ranger because normally one of those is inaccessible and they're stat-independent.

If something costs you a feat, there's an opportunity cost because of any other feat available.  An early feat choice needs to be something that's useful at all levels that won't diminish in usefulness as the character grows.  I don't see the appeal in Faerie Fire so much for an AT at all levels.  It's fine for low levels when the AT doesn't have so many spells to use, but when 3rd level spells are available, I'd rather have a reliable Hypnotic Pattern if I'm going to cast an area spell.  The stat spread needed to make a Faerie Fire package work is undesirable for long-term play IMO.  You won't have ASIs to split between Dex, Int, and Wis in most scenarios, and long-term you're giving up the reliability of higher level AT spells just to make Faerie Fire work.

Bless on the other hand is ability-score-independent, so that's a great pick without sacrificing any functionality at later levels.  Not trying to dilute your argument here, but I do want to point out as a DM of multiple games that have gone to or are currently in high levels, it's a mistake for a cleric to forget about using Bless at high levels.  Druids are bogged down by a list that has too many concentration spells, and bards do indeed have better things to concentrate on than Faerie Fire.  Clerics have good non-concentration spells and Bless is one of the best buffs on their class list.  They can get away with novas in some fights because their low level concentration stuff can carry them so far.

Lack of reliability on Sneak Attack is a problem for rogues that forget that ranged attacks work for Sneak Attack.  Hiding for the advantage granted by attacking unseen plus a ranged attack on the first turn is a pretty reliable way to Sneak Attack, and remaining at range makes Cunning Action to hide a lot more viable for repeated use in combat.  Shortbows and light crossbows don't get much talk, but an 80 ft. range Sneak Attack is enough to make one a worthwhile choice for a backup weapon on a melee-focused AT as opposed to trying to make Sacred Flame work.  I'm not accusing you of doing so, but it seems the online community as a whole forgot ATs can Sneak Attack from range just because Booming Blade and Green-Flame Blade offer them a higher damage Sneak Attack.

Off on a tanget, the 13th level AT ability is totally overrated and it shows in most online discussion.  Most discussion seems to assume the AT has Mage Hand out and in position 24/7.  If one actually tracks the movement and duration of the hand, it's not 100% reliable.  RAW, gaining advantage via Versatile Trickster is not one of the uses on Mage Hand that allows it to move and the feature provides no wording to allow the hand to move.  Performing an action with the hand in order to move it is an action or a bonus action for the AT, so unless the hand is already in position, the AT won't gain advantage from the hand and attack/cast in the same turn.  I have not seen any tweets or anything in the Sage Advice Compendium to clarify RAI yet.

Shield as an MI spell does allow the AT to take Find Familiar with its off-school 1st level spell.  (I prefer that order because an extra use of Shield is more often useful than an extra use of Find Familiar.)  MI: wizard is a decent alternative to taking Ritual Caster because of the extra cantrips.  Extra cantrips might not seem that useful, but consider what an AT does with Haste.  At 14, the AT can Haste himself, using the Haste action as an extra Cunning Action essentially, or he lands his Sneak Attack with his Haste action and tacks on more damage with a scaled up cantrip via his normal action.  A familiar is a good supplement to the Mage Hand tricks because the familiar has its own actions, unlike the hand.  An owl's Flyby feature can make it a decent Sneak Attack partner in a pinch, either by flanking or the Help action.  RAW, an owl's perception and stealth proficiencies mean it can give the AT advantage for those checks per the Working Together section on page 175, though a DM could invoke the "no easier with help" clause.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: sambojin on January 01, 2017, 08:04:20 PM
Yeah, I did try and edit that in to make it obvious that FF wasn't that good. Probably while you were writing that post :)

A lot of those "MI package's value" rests on Guidance. Roll high for initiative? Great, you get a better hide roll first turn (or soon after). Roll lowish initiative, but want it a bit higher? You get +d4 to it. Guidance is one of those things that you should always have cast when possible, because it's always useful for a rogue, and very versatile both in and out of combat. It smooths out initiative/hiding/anything very well (including any weird magehand use), making auto-10's that little bit nicer when you whiff rolls.

The rest is just some occasionally useful utility and a little potential combat power that frees up other party members to do other stuff. I sort of focused on that side of things for why these are ok'ish picks, because rogues and hiding/sniping are "that thing they always do when possible" anyway, didn't mention it because it's kind of the bread and butter of the class. Like how Guidance didn't really get a mention either, even though it's one of the best bits. You can't always hide, but you often can. When you can't, Bless or FF are nice to cast occaisionally instead of readying an action for flanking/sneak attack. The DMs I've played with tend to take great delight in slaughtering familiars of non-magic'y classes that use them solely for combat advantage anyway.

But Shield and Find Familiar always work, and are damn good picks.

Was just offering options and thoughts, though it's a hard question to answer. The best MI for AT? Like you said, there may not be one for the opportunity cost of a feat/ASI. But there's a few options that may work ok'ish, depending on your character and party make-up.



((as a thought, at level 9 with 14 Wisdom, Faerie Fire isn't all that bad. DC14 with dex disadvantage if you're hidden, so pretty close to DC16 mathematically speaking (18 Wis worth at that level) on an "reasonably dexxy" opponent as a ballpark figure. I'm not actually trying to defend it or say that it's good, but it's not that bad. 14 Wis is what I'd call "high Wisdom" on a Trickster, and maybe doable. Maybe. Possibly. Probably not. For a slightly better than 60/40'ish chance with the spell over the next few levels. Damn. I'm too used to druids and their lack of stat and feat requirements. Probably why we rarely cast it, I guess. There's some regard to having two casts of it on the same (invisible) group, but at that point, almost anything is a better use of two actions in a party. It's not horrible if it connects and everyone else plans on nova'ing (or if you can't see them in the first place), but it's not as good as I thought. If you're already hidden, shooting them may be better in most cases.))
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: TenaciousJ on January 02, 2017, 10:23:45 AM
I don't think MI should be ruled out as an optimal feat for an AT, but it has to be chosen carefully.  Looking through the feats, no feat stands out for a rogue like Polearm Master stands out for Strength classes or Sharpshooter stands out for archers.

I think we can narrow down the Magic Initiate choices to cleric for Bless, Guidance, and Resistance or Magic Initiate: wizard to gain an extra 1st level off-school spell with a wider variety of cantrips it's already built to use.

AT's are all about gaining versatility, so the feat choices IMO should follow that theme.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: sambojin on January 02, 2017, 04:23:37 PM
Alert (pump that init, first SA is a good SA. Init order and readying actions are now reliable "tools" for you. No surprise just about ever, so dex-AC is always there for you),

Crossbow Expert (lazy, casual, bonus shooting and stabbing. More attacks means a far higher chance of SA working, but it does take up your bonus action. It's not really that much better than normal two weapon fighting, but it's nice and lazy and does close-ranged work a little better),

Defensive Duelist (mini-Shield per reaction. They get better and it frees up resources. If Shield is good, then so's this. Way better than it looks, but only against melee attacks, and only for one attack per turn. Lots of things run at cocky rogues and try and hit them with stuff. You know the roll has hit you and the situation, so you'll know when to use this or Shield or when to just take the half-hit with Uncanny Dodge. +2->+6 AC on-call is seriously underrated, because a lot of things wouldn't hit you with a bit more AC, so use it regularly. Probably even better with a Trickster due to options. Can you overkill on damage mitigation?),

Lucky (keep on rolling baby, anti-disadvantage and pseudo-advantage for tricky stuff),......

......all come pretty close to being "more optimal" IMO. Not as versatile perhaps, but nice for any rogue.


Agreed on the MI choices though. There is also the fact that those feats all work well with MI anyway, so it's not exactly a horrible choice for the extra options if you've got a spare ASI for some reason.

Ummm, I'll try and find something fun so we can get back on topic.



((Defensive Duelist goes up in value depending on how your DM plays. We mostly quick-roll when there's only one possible melee target, so they may say something nice like "The *foo* hits you 3 times". That's a Shield job, that is. But if the *foo* only hits you once, it's a Duelist job. How likely were they to hit you in the first place, and for how much damage? How many more *foo* hits (or bigger) are likely to come your way this turn? When should you react? Meta-as-fuck, but so are many things. YMMV))
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Delicate Swarm on January 03, 2017, 07:53:30 AM
For a single classed Arcane Trickster, I'd say Mobile stands out.  Booming Blade then run away + Bonus action Hide.  Or run up, smack em and dash away without provoking.

Mobile is good for everyone, but no one uses it like Rogue.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: TenaciousJ on January 03, 2017, 10:20:20 AM
I disagree with that on the basis that optimal rogue play means staying at range, where Sneak Attacks work just as well and the rogue has an easier time generating advantage via hiding.  Sneak Attacks work from up to 150 feet away or farther if one gets Sharpshooter.  Why get close and take the associated risks?  The Booming Blade hypothetical falls apart, because it's contingent on fighting a single enemy with an ally next to it or gaining advantage from an external source.  If you're dealing with more than one enemy, Mobile only prevents opportunity attacks from the enemy you hit, leaving the others potentially free to attack if within range unless you Cunning Action Disengage, meaning Mobile was redundant.  If your ally is next to the enemy to setup the Sneak Attack, the enemy won't move and will just attack the ally.  All the Booming Blade Sneak Attack scenarios are more safely executed from range where the rogue does not have to expose himself to threats for the sake of a few d8s of damage.

Monk uses Mobile a bit better than rogue IMO because of the innate speed increases that leave the bonus action available for flurry or greater movement.  Monks lack the ranged options of a rogue to achieve most of their damage potential.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Kremlin K.O.A. on January 24, 2018, 07:29:32 AM
Arise from the dead, thread
With this necromantic fun find.

Wiz Necro 14th level ability allows you to permanently take control of an undead.  :)
If said undead is intelligent, it gets a save   :bigeyes
If said undead is int 12+ it gets a save every hour  :shakefist
Mummy Lord is Int 11  :love
That means, with a Hex, your necro has a 50/50 chance of becoming a pet class.  :P
With a legendary pet.  :lmao
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on January 24, 2018, 05:27:40 PM
Niiiiiiiiiice !!
 :clap


(this is like a basic 3e polymorph dumpster dive, oh how the once mighty c.o. board has fallen)
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: Wilb on January 24, 2018, 05:35:25 PM
Delightful! Congrats on the find!

 :clap :clap :clap

EDIT: its a saving throw, so Hex won't help, but Feeblemind can make this easy as cake. Mix with simulacrum stacking for "more legendary mummies than Egypt itself", and risk reducing a more powerful undead's int to 10 through wish, for that sweet Death Knight pal.
Title: Re: Fun Finds: 5e Edition
Post by: bruceleeroy on February 06, 2018, 04:27:25 PM
Intelligence Devourer will reduce the Int of any creature with a brain to 0. Might not work on mummies, depending on your DM's interpretation.

But if it did, that's a, what, -5 to Int saves?