A note about mecha scale:(click to show/hide)
Mecha Combat basics(click to show/hide)
Combat between mechas and non-mechas.(click to show/hide)
Edited in your version, thanks!
Also, reduced the save DC to 15+Damage taken since 20+Damage taken felt a little too much in retrospective.
I'm not sure I get your "liken it to a Massive Damage save" comment. I didn't use massive damage rules because they're non-scaling, and I wanted to make it harder to resist, say, a WildWurger's Beetle Crusher than a simple Gespent's Punch.
Note: Mecha Mooks as PCsWell depending on how you handle multiclassing... (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Kh7uBEJbnE)
This class is intended for NPC enemies, but it should be fine for a player to use it, as long as they're fine playing with 5 characters that can just perform basic attacks, whitout spirits/maneuvers or anything else but basic attacks, plus a lot of dead levels.
Could a shield arsenal item and/or upgrade be created? Some mecha use them.Usually as in-built stuff.
Is there a feasible way to emulate interchangeable parts in battle, such as with Steel Jeeg? Or mechs that combine?
Sad we can't go Kira Yamato-style and disable mechas left and right. Maybe some kind of mecha non-lethal damage.How you finish off an opponent's mecha is up to you. By all means claim you're just disabling key parts instead of exploding it into atoms. There's no pratical diference as far as destroyed mecha rules care.
Also, what about attacks that damage only living beings?Both shrug it off. Half the reason of encasing yourself in a massive steel coffin filled with unstable stuff is because at least it keeps pesky chemical weapons/ low radiations away.
Do they affect pilots directly or do a mecha counts as living for the purpose of taking hits for the pilot. Or does the pilot count as non-living while inside a mecha?
Nothing wrong with it if the mecha is carrying the building, like, in its arms.
If the building somehow magically fits inside the mecha... the laws of physics would like a word with you.
Besides the possibility to salvage the mecha.The art of salvaging technology has improved quite a lot with the advancment of mechas and their increased destructive power. :p
By the way, when a mecha is destroyed, does the pod ejection's movement provokes an AoO?No, clarified.
Would the escape pod contain the storage space or is it lost in the wreckage?The "storage space" is free room inside the cockpit, so it's not lost.
It might be better if the storage space was static.Not when pilots can have so much space as the mecha itself.
You don't want crazy strong characters with ridiculous light loads carrying buildings in their mecha. :blushPlease, ever since the first Phantasy Star the characters were storing tank-fortresses on their pockets. :P
It might be a good idea to have a general table of mecha functions here instead of splitting them between real and super.Dully noted.
It feels odd to have to go in the real robot page to find information on how super robots work. Like how energy is recharged.
Also, are androids ageless or do they eventually waste away?An highly debated question. It's well known that androids can go on for centuries with basic maintenance, but most of the time they end up wrecked by some exterior force, so there's lack of data for long-term survival. There's some records of Androids going for long periods of activity whitout stopping and/or maintenance that will indeed waste themselves down in less than half a millenia. If put under continuous stress they may not even last a century. The "longest-lived" android in known history would be Wren, that pops up in several major events that span over 5000 years, but many scholars claim that there's actually been not one but multiple "Wrens", all built as close in resemblance to its predecessor as possible.
Nothing wrong with it if the mecha is carrying the building, like, in its arms.Yes. Mechas are customized to the pilot. A smaller pilot will get a smaller cockpit, any leftover space will be spent in extra stablizing systems to stop him/her from being squashed like a bug against a windshield when the mecha moves.
If the building somehow magically fits inside the mecha... the laws of physics would like a word with you.
Also, it makes no sense the other way around, either. I'm a small sized character so there is somehow less space inside my mecha than there would be if I was bigger?
Changed it to Numan then (Newearl for females, Newman for males).Sorry, but this is bugging me.(click to show/hide)
That name (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newtype) refers to humans who have developed psychic powers, usually implied to be the next stage in evolution. UC Gundam calls them Newtypes, Gundam SEED calls it "enhanced spatial awareness" (Mu La Flaga's thing, not to be confused with Coordinators or the SEED Factor), Gundam 00 calls them True Innovators, Gundam AGE calls them X-Rounders, and Super Robot Wars OG calls them Psychodrivers (or just Psychics).
They have battle precognition at low levels, large-scale mind links at high levels, and can use special psychic equipment which improves their mech's power and response time (especially in response to strong emotions), or generates forcefields, or lets them control remote weapons like funnels (sometimes via telekinesis, but usually they're just too complex for normal pilots to handle without AI assistance). The closest D&D equivalent to awakening as a Newtype would be taking Psychic Warrior (or War Mind) levels.
The term is established enough that it's the name of a magazine, so using it for an artificial human is just confusing...
A mecha can choose to use a single-target weapon to damage all non-mecha targets smaller than himself in a single 5 mu square.
Evidently it will lay in wait of a new hotblooded pilot to pick it up and slowly work to unlock its full potential again. :p
If you're piloting another person's super robot (either burrowed or stolen), you can use any maneuvers that super robot knows without you knowing them yourself, but you use the super robot's level instead of your own level for the purposes of those maneuvers.
Stealth:The mecha can hide whitout actualy having anything to hide behind, even in the middle of the sky or the empty space.
The Extra upgrade option of the Super Robot grants an extra in-built weapon. Where do we select those? The Arsenal? If so, is that extra weapon taking arsenal space as well?
Mighty refers to a main weapon. How do we determine which is the main weapon? Even the Real Robot don't seem to have one.
Yes. Just like the rest of your posessions.Evidently it will lay in wait of a new hotblooded pilot to pick it up and slowly work to unlock its full potential again. :p
How does this interact with this passage from Super Pilot?QuoteIf you're piloting another person's super robot (either burrowed or stolen), you can use any maneuvers that super robot knows without you knowing them yourself, but you use the super robot's level instead of your own level for the purposes of those maneuvers.
Does a Super Robot stop being "yours" when you die?
Speaking of which, I just thought of something; if you have the leadership feat or otherwise gain the ability to have followers or apprentices. Can they have levels in Mecha Mook?Yes. Can't say it is very safe to fly around in one of those yourself tough, may be better to just get into an ally's mecha.
It could be interesting to go in their junk-mecha with them when you're in a bind when yours blow up or if you don't have a mecha to begin with.
Also, on the subject of Relationship feats, what happens if the person you chose when you took the feat dies or if you stop having the required feeling for that person.Easy retraining would kinda defeat the whole idea behind "Strong feelings give you power".
Those feat have no actual requirement and so do not need you to still have the relevant feelings to still work, and a dead selected one may still be returned to life. Normally.
Still, is there a process by which this feat may be realigned to someone else?
This would be quite useful in these kind of online pbp games when you never know if the player whose character you linked yourself to won't go MIA for months without warning.
Otherwise the safest targets of those feats would be DMPCs and cohorts.
Sentient; Supporting states that the robot itself provides bonuses. It seems to imply that the robot is spending the immediate action, not the pilot, and can more or less grant those once per round even if the pilot is inside it.As per sentient, the Super robot can still only take actions on its own when you're outside of it. That was more meant for those pilots that prefer to stand at the side of their super robots rather than inside them.
Aye, but as is you only get the normal damage. The critical damage goes to the mecha. A x3 crit weapon would harm the mecha more than it hurts the pilot.
Random Balance Thing: I've been looking at it, and increased energy storage (for a Super Robot) is pointless. Reactor II is enough. Aside from levels 1 and 3, you always regenerate as much or more energy than your highest-level maneuver costs, so energy total becomes more of a buffer. Specifically, it's because then your energy regenerated goes up by 6 every two levels, starting at 3, whilst maneuver cost only goes up by 5.
Random Balance Thing: I've been looking at it, and increased energy storage (for a Super Robot) is pointless. Reactor II is enough. Aside from levels 1 and 3, you always regenerate as much or more energy than your highest-level maneuver costs, so energy total becomes more of a buffer. Specifically, it's because then your energy regenerated goes up by 6 every two levels, starting at 3, whilst maneuver cost only goes up by 5.
Random Balance Thing: I've been looking at it, and increased energy storage (for a Super Robot) is pointless. Reactor II is enough. Aside from levels 1 and 3, you always regenerate as much or more energy than your highest-level maneuver costs, so energy total becomes more of a buffer. Specifically, it's because then your energy regenerated goes up by 6 every two levels, starting at 3, whilst maneuver cost only goes up by 5.
Wait what? How? Mecha maneuvers cost 5 times the level of the maneuver in energy. Your highest level maneuvers thus costs 45 energy. You need like almost 250 energy for Reactor 2 (20% energy regen) to cover that and come out roughly even.
A detail I was wondering; wouldn't it be better to have the damage of a critical hit deal as much damage to the pilot as it would deal to the mecha instead of just normal damage to the pilot and the multiplied damage to the mecha? I mean, you hit the bloody cockpit. I think that's usually an instant kill in mecha stuff.
Mostly because I think a pilot would normally have a much easier time healing himself than healing his mecha. I'd rather have my pilot eat the normal damage than have my mecha eat it instead.
...Also, once your mecha gains sentience, would it be considered weird, or maybe even a little creepy, to have relationship feats with your mecha as the target?Mechas, even if sentient, just as intelligent equipment are not individuals.
What's the carrying capacity for ships?
I tried both both options and made myself diagrams to evaluate which was the better option and I went with super robot in the end.You actually multiclassed into real robot to get a bunch of extra HP, energy and arsenal space.
The real robot list is the only place mecha flying is discussed but it does say "all mecha" so I'm thinkig that's a yes. That section should probably be copied into the mecha basics post. Also, it says that flying drains energy but it says that in the context of explaining the speed stat. Seems like flying is the default movement mode. Is it possible to move without flying and thus without losing energy? If so, does such movement work off the same speed stat or a different one? This should probably also be addressed in the mecha basics post.
You can't actually use all of these things in one turn (Main Weapon and Arsenal weapons are cheap to use, too) and this is on top of having Level x10 energy.As already pointed out, you also burn energy for flying and then there's stuff like the Mighty upgrade and using multiple maneuvers in a single round.
Mecha regenerate 1/10th of their energy per turn by default. If Reactor isn't additive, Reactor I is effectively useless.It is additive.
All mechas have base speeds, flying speeds are always extra. It cannot be adressed more than that.
All mechas are equiped with thrusters of some kind that allow them to fly at their base speed on their own turns, but they must end their turn on a surface or fall when their turn ends, unless they're in space. Mechas with a flight speed can fly all the time when on a planet's surface. Either way, flight consumes 1 energy for each 5 mu moved. A mecha reduced to 0 energy falls or is rendered immobile if in space.
Since mecha get such high HP, and there's a comparative lack of save-or-die stuff here, I'm inclined to view things as lasting longer than just the few rounds.That's the plan at least.
But... it bothers me, still: they get increasingly generic the more I look at it. Having good weapons requires either large energy expenditure or being larger, and both of those require other things to not be a death sentence. Gaaaaah.
You actually multiclassed into real robot to get a bunch of extra HP, energy and arsenal space.Yep. But I chose to go with way more Super R levels than Reals. I went with super robot in the end. Will look again now that the second and third real tiers have been upgraded.
Wondering, is there something on mechas that stop people from just teleporting into another's mecha?You can try to teleport inside somebody else's mecha. However due to its internal structure, and the fact there's plenty of parts moving around in the interior means chances are that you'll end up attempting to materialize inside something solid and be shunted outside.
Like using a dimension door, or phasing in from the etereal plane. Or otherwise appear in your cockpit to duke it out with you from inside.
And if you get attacking inside the cockpit, are you at a disadvantage if you don't stop piloting your mecha while getting attacked?
An upgrade to make a weapon an area attack? Pretty much every Real but one from level four onwards has something like that. And whilst there are some Arsenal weapons with the property, a short range, low power shotgun is the only option before level 13. Then there's the Remote Slasher... and I honestly have no idea what that is meant to be. :???Well, the Burning Justice school has plenty of area attacks, but I could see that.
You can try to teleport inside somebody else's mecha. However due to its internal structure, and the fact there's plenty of parts moving around in the interior means chances are that you'll end up attempting to materialize inside something solid and be shunted outside.That's where the "moving components" part comes in. No mecha is static. In battle it is constant movement inside and out.
Similar problem for ethereal. You can pass trough it, but actually geting into the cockpit and back into the material in time is a trick against all odds.
Doesn't sound so complicated once you know exactly where the pilot is within the mecha.
As to ethereality/incorporeality, you don't have to re-materialize to be a threat. Once the pilot is in sight and within line of effect, you can do stuff to him.
What changed in the races?Clarifying that the android's personal weapon doesn't carry over to the mecha she pilots.
The merged mecha would be the size of the biggest mecha +1 per additional mecha.
Huh, I thought that this was going to be multiple players rather than one. Because... uh... four or five sets of actions and the ability to combine into a mecha better than anything the other two classes can get, and five characters? You're basically a one-man party. :/
The merged mecha would be the size of the biggest mecha +1 per additional mecha.
...
The base stats of the merge robot are that of the highest level robot +2 super pilot level per participating mecha.
Ah, I think I understand.No multiclassing rules at start, this will already be complicated enough by itself.
However, question: would it be possible to start with a Super Pilot for, say, five levels, then multiclass into the combining class as the 'leader'? The other mecha would be several levels behind, but the leader's would be a bit tougher.
AlsoNote: Mecha Mooks as PCsWell depending on how you handle multiclassing... (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Kh7uBEJbnE)
This class is intended for NPC enemies, but it should be fine for a player to use it, as long as they're fine playing with 5 characters that can just perform basic attacks, whitout spirits/maneuvers or anything else but basic attacks, plus a lot of dead levels.
Looks good (though cartridges + something like the G-Impact Stake or the Alteisen Reise's Claymore Avalanache seems liable to cause problems)Reduced to mecha mook HD and skill points, also put clause against Promotion.
Do the Mecha Mooks get the full d12 Super Pilot HP?
And finally... you should probably add a clause to the combining rules that negates Promotion, 'cause that really wouldn't work. :lmao
I am now imagining a Mecha Mook 20/Super Pilot 4 team. @_@That's for what multiclassing is for, go Super Robot if you want fancy battleships.
EDIT: Can't help but think that ships are currently more bland than even straight Mecha Mook. There's absolutely no choices invested in them aside from size, which is kind of... odd. You'd think there would be amenities of some sort or something (not entirely sure about the fact that everything is apparently the Yamato :p)
I... cannot actually find any rules regarding multiclassing between Ship Captain and Super Pilot. Wait... they're in the Ship Captain section? Rather than the Super Robot list with the Real Robot/Super Robot multiclass rules? :huhI get it, I get it, I have to figure out a better overall organization for this.
... because SRW has all its ships be the same, all ships in this must be pretty much the same or start digging into a list of Super Pilot upgrades? I... what? :???This is Super ROBOT Wars d20. Mechas are suposed to be the main weapons of war, ships play a support role. Or you play a ship-robot hybrid.
EDIT: A multiclass ship/super robot gets less HP than a straight super robot. Despite ships getting more. Also less energy, despite their having the same beforehand. And automatically gains a humanoid form. I must state that this is making less and less sense. Transforming, maybe, but worse health? :|Fluff-all of those moving parts in such a big structure aren't exactly stable.
... also, for taking the full 20 levels in ship captain, you get... a 10th level cohort and one more maneuver. Um... is there any conceivable way that this level is worth it?Said 10th level cohort gives you 3 more spirits and 70 spare spirit points. Even more if you have her invest in spirit-boosting feats.
Internal stuff? You start with all the basics (and I find the Custom Ship fluff amusing given that you've already been carrying all the accessories for three levels for Real Pilots) but there's got to be some stuff that can be added. Somewhere to get non-mecha items. Library. Faster loading/offloading of mecha. Medical bay. Something to enable changing HDxSuper Robot upgrade points for a cost or something.Added a bunch of captain-only feats based on that, thanks for the ideas!
Super Pilot: bonus upgrade points. Real Pilot: sudden accessory. Ship Captain: "Don't I already have two of you? Go serve food in the cafeteria or something until we're all dead." Not, exactly, a distinctive upgrade. You also ruined the nice pattern you had going (since you get a bonus feat level 18 instead of 4th Officer). Something to improve your leader aura for a brief duration? If you put all your bonus feats into it, you get a 25 foot range aura. In something built to hang around at the back of the battlefield. But to actually use much of your support stuff, you need to be near them... thereby putting your giant target right where people can hit it. Hmm.
QuoteStealth:The mecha can hide with out actually having anything to hide behind, even in the middle of the sky or the empty space.
Can this basically be taken to mean that it works as the Hide in Plain Sight feature?
No. HiPS usually demands some special condition/terrain to work. It's far from a standardized ability.QuoteStealth:The mecha can hide with out actually having anything to hide behind, even in the middle of the sky or the empty space.
Can this basically be taken to mean that it works as the Hide in Plain Sight feature?
Even I forgot I had asked this question and never got an answer :tongue
How does multiclassing between Arcane/Divine Pilot and Super/Real Pilot work?
That is, if you're an Arcane Pilot who multiclasses to Real Pilot and takes a Real Robot, does your robot have full stats or is it modifed as per the Divine Robot feature?
Same question for the various class combinations.
Oh, so the mecha stealth ability is better? :DYes. I didn't feel like complicating things on that matter.
Out of curiosity, what made you decide to use maneuvers for stuff like rocket punches, bigger rocket punches, and ultimate attacks?If I remember correctly, it came from a discussion with Prime32 about how to do the Super Robot martial school.
Oh, so the mecha stealth ability is better? :DYes. I didn't feel like complicating things on that matter.
Nope. It only allows you to Hide anywhere. If you successfully hide, you're not invisible, only unseen.
But I understand your confusion. In shows the camouflage sort of feel like an invisibility. Perhaps invisibility-seeing effects could negate the stealth.
Could there be an option for life-energy dependant mechas?Maybe. But not really a priority, since that kinda stuff is a pain to balance out.
kind of like Zearth in Bokurano, but maybe not as vicious.
Nope. It only allows you to Hide anywhere. If you successfully hide, you're not invisible, only unseen.Perhaps noncasters should get nice things that aren't automatically defeated by a bunch of staple spells.
But I understand your confusion. In shows the camouflage sort of feel like an invisibility. Perhaps invisibility-seeing effects could negate the stealth.
Size penalties on super huge mechs make this Stealth option a tough one to imagine using then.Nacht system now allows you to ignore size penalties to hide checks.
Nacht system now allows you to ignore size penalties to hide checks.
Do multiple instances of the Reactor property stack? From both arsenal and upgrades, for example?No. That's why I made it a keyword. It still stacks with the base mecha regeneration because it has no actual keyword.
Huh, oddity: Veteran Mechanic doesn't help the ship itself at all. You'd think having someone on board that knew what they were doing would at least cut down the time taken to get it airworthy after crashing.Good point, will add something about that.
I like the idea but then what would be the point of the One with the Machine ability of the android?
Ah, I see.People keep asking that, so I'll just add a note on super robot basics.
Does it mention somewhere if a mecha can fight with certain weapons two-handed for 1.5 str damage?
Like sword-like arsenal weapons.
Or when they have only one melee weapon, natural weapon-like or not, such as the Meggilot's Bug Horn.
If they can fight two-handed, how'd it interact with the Main Weapon upgrade? It'd only add .5 to the multiplier?Yes.
Mecha Melee weapons add 1,5 the Str mod of the user if they don't use any other weapon for that roundThere is a big difference between fighting two-handed and not using other weapons (after all, my favorite kind of two-weapon combat involved two-handed fighting), but I suppose that you'd prefer to handle it this way as far as mecha combat is involved.
Also, since mecha flight movement costs 1 energy per 5 mu moved, I was wondering. Does double flight speed when going downward count for energy movement costs? Reasoning is that since your speed is doubled when flying downward because gravity is doing half the job, should you pay half energy costs when flying downward?
Giant robots tell gravity to fuck off. They move at regular speed at regular energy costs regardless of the direction they're going.So as per Perfect flight speed no matter the maneuverability, but without double speed downwards. Or as some kind of Air Walk. Gotcha.
We really need a 'fight mecha on foot' class. :lmao
We really need a 'fight mecha on foot' class. :lmao
Moon Vanguard! :D
It sorta COULD count :whistle
Otherwise a class that doesn't get a mecha that can fight mechas......is probably gonna be like a Shounen Superhero kind of thing.
Exactly my point.
Master Asia just happens to be ridiculously high level, so yes he can own low level mechas barehanded. :pIt sorta COULD count :whistle
Otherwise a class that doesn't get a mecha that can fight mechas......is probably gonna be like a Shounen Superhero kind of thing.
It happens. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAizwLfZbUA)
You mean using Spirit instead of Energy to use maneuvers on foot, since spirit is to the pilot kind of what energy is to a mecha? Sorta?
You mean using Spirit instead of Energy to use maneuvers on foot, since spirit is to the pilot kind of what energy is to a mecha? Sorta?
You mean using Spirit instead of Energy to use maneuvers on foot, since spirit is to the pilot kind of what energy is to a mecha? Sorta?
I think that's similar to something I was pondering for a spirit focused class--when they run out of energy or HP, spirit can be substituted instead. :lmao
No objections on my part, though I should point out that for the thing I was thinking of there, they'd still be in the mecha.Well, that's for what spirits are for. You can use them to make your mechas keep going, deal more damage, act faster, etc.
If you can't power your robot through hot bloodedness, you're doing something wrong and I think both the TTGL and Getter Robo universes are going to be disappointed in you. :p
Maybe if you're as big as your mecha, there's no escape pod and you're just ejected 1d12x5 MU?Done.
I've been idly contemplating the idea of a Super Pilot who picked the max number of miniaturization upgrades, such that they have a mecha diminutive (which translates to large) robot at lv12.Average parties don't have large party members. Whatever limitations can prevent the players from just crashing Not-Mazinger into wherever they want to go can be applied to diminutive mechas as well.
Such a character could technically bring their mecha anywhere that an average party would be expected to go, and thus adventure in their mecha at all times.
Would having one character in a party able to use mecha scale when it suited them cause serious balance problems?
What, you mean you don't give the druid and persistent cleric good reasons to drop their size buffs now and then? :p
Average size-changing homebrew also usually includes options to turn to more manageable sizes.
Limitations can include narrow portals/tunnels where only a small creature fits naturally. Medium creatures can squeeze in. Large ones not. Said portals/tunnels are key parts of an important structure you don't want wrecked no matter what, meaning you can't just smash an hole with brute force to make room for bigger guys.
Last time I checked, mounted chargers indeed prefer to be small-sized in order to ride a medium-sized mount so they don't risk facing themselves with enemies in 5-feet passages.
Not to mention classes like the paladin get to call their mounts only when needed pokemon-style.
As for level 16 fine mecha, well, I guess I'll just have to remove that option and limit miniaturization to diminutive mechas.
The ship itself may be repaired in just two weeks if reduced to 0 HP, or 20% of its max HP per hour of interrupted work if still at positive HP.
The new Ship Captain feat, Veteran Mechanics says:QuoteThe ship itself may be repaired in just two weeks if reduced to 0 HP, or 20% of its max HP per hour of interrupted work if still at positive HP.
Should be "uninterrupted", shouldn't it?
Also, Engineering Bay sounds like a really cool feat after reading the part about a hybrid Real/Super ship being able to reconstruct itself.
It's kinda like a really, really slow transformation scene :D
Question about the discipline pilot feats:You must remain in a stance of the respective school, altough you can change between diferent stances from the same discipline.
They say they require you to be in the right stance and that "You cannot start one while another is still active tough."
Now.
Is being in the stance necessary only for the activation or must the stance be kept to maintain any continuous effects?
Shooting Star, Cut Trough the Night: Making sure I got this right.What can I say, Real Pilots seem to be the ones that actually try to advance relationships with their loved ones, while super pilots are too busy being angst/hotblooded and showing off to actually try to stablish a deeper connection with another being of the same size (totally unbiased opinion as my current avatar proves :p)
Ace Legend: I imagine that if a relationship feat is taken for this option, its requirements must be fulfilled as normal? Meaning, you can only use it on someone you actually love. That said I'm unsure why Love better fits real pilots and Rivalry better fits super pilots. Might make more sense to grant any relationship fit instead of a specific one.
Supply drop: Locks you out of using the other options from the moment you use it, including the 1d3 delay and until the drop is used/expires.[/quote]
The feat also makes a distinction between using a drop (to prevent it from expiring after 5 rounds) and picking them up.
It does not mention the action needed to equip/use/activate them after picking them up. Wargear seems to add an additional 5 seconds of use on top of how long it took to use it. The drone doesn't say how long it lasts after being activated if left unattacked. It is unsure if the drone can be activate more than once to have it move again on successive rounds.
Natural Leader: It locks you out of using the other options for as long as the mook is around. The oddity of seeing every loyal henchmen you ever call get destroyed randomly aside, what is the level of that mecha mook, and is there a way to send him off early to be able to use your other options without waiting for him to explode?More good points, tweaked that one a bit as well.
I am Invincible!Done.
Come to Me: You're saying it is at full energy twice. The second one can be taken out seeing how you already put it as a requirement for the option's use.
Over the Top: It seems you must have the pure metal thing to be used with this option. You don't temporarily spawn one out of nowhere like the real pilot discipline feat like, say, bigass pure metal mecha sunglasses. From the moment you start integrating the thing, you get locked out of using the other options, and that until after the 1d3 rounds to remove it are done.Allowed option to spawn lesser pute metal items out of nowhere. Also clarified the removal is instant.
Added a bunch of special weapons, a new Relationship feat (Devotion), Dandy Pilot feat for Into the Danger Zone and buffed up Friendship a bit by making the bonus scaling.
On a completely unrelated note, I had finally managed to watch Diebuster 1 and 2 at the end of the last month.
Mighty:You can expend 1 energy to make all of the super robot's in built weapons deal +1 damage. In the case of the main weapon it deals +2 damage instead. Picking this option multiple times allows you to spend extra energy to get a bigger bonus.Is the bonus to the weapon's damage meant to last one one round or do you reduce your max energy for a given damage boost and the damage bonus lasts, like some kind of energy based Power Attack?
Then it is unclear since it says all your weapons get that buff whenever you activate it. It would clearer if it was one weapon at a time; the one whose dmg is being buffed. If all weapons get one buffed attack per use then just add that it applies only on their next attack instead of an indefinite amount of time.Should be clarified now.
Also curious as to why you can get the hyper jammer in the Arsenal but not the regular jammer.Very well, just let me decide what level it should be.
Another question that just stroke me.As machines, mechas are immune to nonlethal damage, just as you can't deal nonlethal damage to a house or catapult.
Mechas are destroyed when they reach 0 hit points, but what happens if they take nonlethal damage equal to their remaining hit points (or more). Are they disabled?
Actually most of those examples I've seen are in Super Robot media. The monster-of-the-day loves to use an obscure attack to disable the super robot so they actually have to try something different so that their finishing move works.
More that things like redundancies, backup systems and shielding seem to happen more in Reals, giving them a graceful failure path as you take out their primary systems and cripple the secondaries.
For supers you just need to target their unobtainium, or pour glue on their joints.
Mixed Heritage: A Numan can count himself as any race for qualifying for feats, class abilities and prestige classes. If a Numan picks Monster Blooded, she automatically gains the related Monster Hybrid feat.Perhaps it would be better to rephrase to say that the Numan can simply enter the respective monstrous classes as if he had the related Monster Hybrid feat as opposed to actually acquiring the feat. Otherwise a Numan could choose EVERY feat he gains to be a Monster Blooded feat and just retrain or "Embrace/Shun the Dark Chaos" the free Monster Hybrid feats into something else, effectively getting a number of ability points equal to the amount of feats they would normally have (or more if the feats replacing the Monster Hybrid feats are more Monster Blooded feats).
A Numan gets this ability:That falls on my auto-ban list, but I guess editing your suggestion doesn't hurt.QuoteMixed Heritage: A Numan can count himself as any race for qualifying for feats, class abilities and prestige classes. If a Numan picks Monster Blooded, she automatically gains the related Monster Hybrid feat.Perhaps it would be better to rephrase to say that the Numan can simply enter the respective monstrous classes as if he had the related Monster Hybrid feat as opposed to actually acquiring the feat. Otherwise a Numan could choose EVERY feat he gains to be a Monster Blooded feat and just retrain or "Embrace/Shun the Dark Chaos" the free Monster Hybrid feats into something else, effectively getting a number of ability points equal to the amount of feats they would normally have (or more if the feats replacing the Monster Hybrid feats are more Monster Blooded feats).
The infinite ability score cheat is easy to DM ban but I thought I'd point it out.
Another thing that just got me thinking.Clarified that Powerful Build doesn't apply as well.
Mecha's aren't affected by abilities that increase their size, but what about abilities like Powerful Build? That abilities allows you to behave as if you were bigger without actually being bigger. If it does carry over to the mecha, does it allow it to use its weapons as if it was bigger as well, die size increase and so on?
Disabling Hit (Ace Pilot LvL 2 maneuver)
Standard action initiation
When you initiate this strike, make a single attack against an enemy. If you hit with that choose one weapon of your enemy. That enemy can't use that weapon for until the beginning of your next turn.
Area:Instead of a normal shot, you may make the weapon fire a line with the width of your mecha and the same lenght as the first range increment of the weapon. Roll to hit against all targets inside the line. If you target an oponent bigger than you with this, the line needs to pass trough the middle of their position.I wasn't under the impression that mecha ranged weapons had range increments.
When you initiate this maneuver, you may perform one basic attack against each enemy within reach of your weapon.The maneuvers mentions 'reach' but it can be used with any weapon and is limited by ammo. The description, along with the maneuver's name, suggest that it is also meant to be used with ranged weapons, but ranged weapons have range/range increment and little reach to speak of. Is it meant to use a ranged weapon's range instead of its reach?
You're right, replaced Range with Range Increment on the Real Robots and Arsenal lists.QuoteArea:Instead of a normal shot, you may make the weapon fire a line with the width of your mecha and the same lenght as the first range increment of the weapon. Roll to hit against all targets inside the line. If you target an oponent bigger than you with this, the line needs to pass trough the middle of their position.I wasn't under the impression that mecha ranged weapons had range increments.
I see they have a 'range' section, which seems to be fixed.
A Gespent's Split Missiles have a 50 mu range. Are those meant to actually be a range increment? If so, the misunderstanding is probably due to maneuvers and spells having a range indicator, while weapons generally have a range increment property rather than a range property.
Since I'm already talking of maneuver range, here is a question on Multitarget (Ace Pilot 3)Yes.QuoteWhen you initiate this maneuver, you may perform one basic attack against each enemy within reach of your weapon.The maneuvers mentions 'reach' but it can be used with any weapon and is limited by ammo. The description, along with the maneuver's name, suggest that it is also meant to be used with ranged weapons, but ranged weapons have range/range increment and little reach to speak of. Is it meant to use a ranged weapon's range instead of its reach?
Miniaturization: The super robot becomes one size category smaller, gaining all standard advantages and penalties except ability score changes, and it's Natural armor and In Built weapons damage doesn't change either. This can only be taken once for every 4 pilot levels, up to diminutive size at 12th pilot level.Notice that it states that all the standard advantages and penalties are gained. This is meant to include reach, I would think.
Miniaturization (SRU) states it can be selected once every 4th pilot level, down to diminutive at pilot level 12. Shouldn't it end at Fine at pilot level 16, as colossal is?Because that would end with a medium-sized mecha, which is basically mechanized armor, and we already have Moon Vanguard for that.
Also, if your mecha is shrunk to diminutive/tiny, its reach on mecha scale becomes 0 mu. If you translate that to normal scale, 0 mu is also 0 feet.Yes.
So does a mecha that is diminutive/tiny on mecha scale and medium/large on regular scale have to enter the space of those it means to attack in order to hit them, since their regular scale reach is technically 0 feet?
Also, the Sentient SRU Imprint states the SuRo gets its pilot's stats while it is out of it. Are these stats meant to be limited to his ability scores, or is it all his stats, in general.Just ability scores, otherwise it would be redudant to include feats and skills.
The Transform: Fighter also increases your speed by 1.5Multiplications in D&D only add unless noted otherwise.
Just to make it isn't multiplying it by 1.5 instead of adding 1.5 your speed.
Someone with a speed of 30 in the former would have 45 and 75 in the later (and how it is currently written).
Miniaturization (SRU) states it can be selected once every 4th pilot level, down to diminutive at pilot level 12. Shouldn't it end at Fine at pilot level 16, as colossal is?Because that would end with a medium-sized mecha, which is basically mechanized armor, and we already have Moon Vanguard for that.
Also, if your mecha is shrunk to diminutive/tiny, its reach on mecha scale becomes 0 mu. If you translate that to normal scale, 0 mu is also 0 feet.Yes.
So does a mecha that is diminutive/tiny on mecha scale and medium/large on regular scale have to enter the space of those it means to attack in order to hit them, since their regular scale reach is technically 0 feet?
Wait, so if we had one Diminutive mecha against a party of unarmoured adventurers, it would need to enter their spaces to attack? :eh
Moon Vanguard needs you to be smaller than the mecha itself, and the "growth" lasts a pretty short time.
[/quote]Wait, so if we had one Diminutive mecha against a party of unarmoured adventurers, it would need to enter their spaces to attack? :eh
If you were fighting in mecha scale, and the mecha wanted to get in melee, yes. But the adventurers wouldn't get an aoo since their own reach would be 0.
My bad, you need to be the same size as the mecha or smaller for Moon Vanguard.Moon Vanguard needs you to be smaller than the mecha itself, and the "growth" lasts a pretty short time.
... so you can only get a medium-sized mecha with a small race? No different from this. And you can still achieve the same effect as a medium-sized Moon Vanguard by picking miniaturisation whenever you can. :huh
And short time or not, it's still an option. Pick miniaturisation and you're putting finite resources towards always being small.You're missing the part where the actual mecha has mecha speed and mecha range all the time. Part of the mecha basis is that mechas won't fit in tight places where regular humanoids can escape into. But if miniaturization goes all the way to diminutive, then we have the whole evil subterranean society/underground HQ of the good guys wiped out by a single kiting supersonic mecha that easily goes anywhere the dudes on foot can, but has unmatched speed and range.
But on normal scale? :OThen the miniaturized mecha would be large-sized, and be able to punch them from 10 feet away.
And short time or not, it's still an option. Pick miniaturisation and you're putting finite resources towards always being small.You're missing the part where the actual mecha has mecha speed and mecha range all the time. Part of the mecha basis is that mechas won't fit in tight places where regular humanoids can escape into. But if miniaturization goes all the way to diminutive, then we have the whole evil subterranean society/underground HQ of the good guys wiped out by a single kiting supersonic mecha that easily goes anywhere the dudes on foot can, but has unmatched speed and range.
Multiplications in D&D only add unless noted otherwise.Yes, but in your homebrew you previously told me the contrary; multipliers stack unless you say otherwise.
But on normal scale? :OTechnically nothing special should happen on normal scale.
... also, are we assuming the guy in question has Spring Attack and/or Shot on the Run, here?Nah, it is all about the fact that their movement and attack range is in MU scale. You can kite them easily when your 5ft step sends you 30ft away.
Quote... also, are we assuming the guy in question has Spring Attack and/or Shot on the Run, here?Nah, it is all about the fact that their movement and attack range is in MU scale. You can kite them easily when your 5ft step sends you 30ft away.
Almost all of them Newman tough, just some very few Newmans among their numbers.
Whoa, could Technotopia be some Ghost in the Shell inspired D&D stuffs? That could be interesting :DOh dear yes. Though the entire population feeling against staying in a shell of flesh would be odd. Especially given the discrepancies in social classes with the poor not really being able to keep upgrading, leading to no poor caste since they all end up as semi-sentient servants. Bionics would probably be the solution, with the most part of the population using upgrades of some kind. Cyber brain, a better arm, better eyes... a fully android body... Having many AI-guided robots and androids would be a given considering the technological specialties of the faction. It would also give the possibility of groups with different mentalities. Like people in the ghettos that are mostly natural but have no means of leaving (or no desire to) and despise the unnatural replacement of body parts for mechanical/bionic 'upgrades'. Along with possible groups of beings so disconnected with material things that they mostly live in the 'net'.
So, having read the timeline first:1)Remade the year counting system.
1) Formatting could do with improvement. For instance, the numbers are counting down--but the present day has a minus sign too? What sort of calendar system (except for geological timescales) works backwards from the current date? Record keeping would be a bitch. As would learning history.
2) Terra seems fairly inappropriate for something that isn't Earth.
3) What, no development of fusion power, or utilisation of magic as a power source? Everything still seems to be fission-powered. And nuclear fission androids sounds impractical.
Technoillithids? :ONot my intention, but sounds like a great idea for a subfaction!
Fixed.QuoteAlmost all of them Newman tough, just some very few Newmans among their numbers.
I think that line needs rewriting.
Will Infernal Mechas be an actual player option as part of the Mecha Galaxy setting?Something I would like to work on the future yes, but for now I would rather work on expanding the fluff itself, specific rules can come later. :P
Or is that just a fluff thing.
Just sounds interesting.
Same with what appears to be the opposite (those mechas granted to servants of Machine Gods)
Sounds like stuff that could work as Alternate Class Features maybe?
Whoa, could Technotopia be some Ghost in the Shell inspired D&D stuffs? That could be interesting :DDefinetely intended.
Grork's preparations took almost 100 years. Is it supposed to be normal that he was so old when he fell in battle? Especially since it begins with him uniting the tribes... as an infant?Taken care with the new timeline.
Though maybe he got lifespan increases from something. Fairly possible. Just a point I though possibly relevant.
There is this massive succession of huge technological breakthroughs over 200 years (from medieval tech to mechas, nuclear power, bionics/androids, cloning/gene-splicing, warp speed...), then more than three thousand years of small steps.
Its a bit odd.
Does Alpha Nei's group become a faction all the years after? Maybe across the Space Sailors?Hmm, good idea, added!
Where does the Federation of Technotopia come from? Colonists of a planet that got a meaningful amount of influence?Developed as well on the expanded timeline.
They just appear as a faction right now without really saying where they come from in all of this.
Oh, that's definetely the kind of thing I wanted, definetely gonna add it, thanks! :DQuoteWhoa, could Technotopia be some Ghost in the Shell inspired D&D stuffs? That could be interesting :DOh dear yes. Though the entire population feeling against staying in a shell of flesh would be odd. Especially given the discrepancies in social classes with the poor not really being able to keep upgrading, leading to no poor caste since they all end up as semi-sentient servants. Bionics would probably be the solution, with the most part of the population using upgrades of some kind. Cyber brain, a better arm, better eyes... a fully android body... Having many AI-guided robots and androids would be a given considering the technological specialties of the faction. It would also give the possibility of groups with different mentalities. Like people in the ghettos that are mostly natural but have no means of leaving (or no desire to) and despise the unnatural replacement of body parts for mechanical/bionic 'upgrades'. Along with possible groups of beings so disconnected with material things that they mostly live in the 'net'.
Minor pedantry: referring to something as 'the government' when it's got no centralisation or governing body at all also seems inaccurate.Arrogance goes a long way as far as titles go around. :p
It's got even less oversight than the Holy Roman Empire did towards the end. O_o
At 18th level, if the battleship is destroyed, the ship ca the wrecks
I think there's an increasing mecha storage problem with Battleships. Once you have non-Real Robots, size demands are liable to get bigger and bigger-huge Super Robots, Drones--but a Battleship is capped at 1 Colossal-sized mecha. The best solution other than 'nerf yourself' is currently 'leave mecha behind (I Am Invincible) and use Burning Justice' and 'devour drones, remake drones constantly, hope to not be attacked (Einst)'.Or you can go Ship Captain/Super Robot to further increase your battleship's size. The very multiclass rules for that are based on super humongous Macross after all. :p
The main issue is that there's no facility for bringing other things along with the warp travel options and teleport at any point. (As a side note, there's no practical option for interplanetary travel thus presented, when the setting requires interstellar--12,000 miles for max teleport range is nothing)Good points, allowed for the basic option of warp speed to pimp your movement speed up to 10 000 times, which should cover interplanetary travel nicely enough, and then boosted the teleport to 5 000 000 000 000 mu per pilot level, which should cover interstellar travel, even if you still need to make multiple jumps. Sounds good, or did I royally screw the math again?
I think there's an increasing mecha storage problem with Battleships. Once you have non-Real Robots, size demands are liable to get bigger and bigger-huge Super Robots, Drones--but a Battleship is capped at 1 Colossal-sized mecha. The best solution other than 'nerf yourself' is currently 'leave mecha behind (I Am Invincible) and use Burning Justice' and 'devour drones, remake drones constantly, hope to not be attacked (Einst)'.Or you can go Ship Captain/Super Robot to further increase your battleship's size. The very multiclass rules for that are based on super humongous Macross after all. :p
The main issue is that there's no facility for bringing other things along with the warp travel options and teleport at any point. (As a side note, there's no practical option for interplanetary travel thus presented, when the setting requires interstellar--12,000 miles for max teleport range is nothing)Good points, allowed for the basic option of warp speed to pimp your movement speed up to 10 000 times, which should cover interplanetary travel nicely enough, and then boosted the teleport to 5 000 000 000 000 mu per pilot level, which should cover interstellar travel, even if you still need to make multiple jumps. Sounds good, or did I royally screw the math again?
I think there's an increasing mecha storage problem with Battleships. Once you have non-Real Robots, size demands are liable to get bigger and bigger-huge Super Robots, Drones--but a Battleship is capped at 1 Colossal-sized mecha. The best solution other than 'nerf yourself' is currently 'leave mecha behind (I Am Invincible) and use Burning Justice' and 'devour drones, remake drones constantly, hope to not be attacked (Einst)'.Or you can go Ship Captain/Super Robot to further increase your battleship's size. The very multiclass rules for that are based on super humongous Macross after all. :p
I keep thinking about Gunbuster and the Exelion. Sure, it only had one Gunbuster, which fits neatly into the 'Colossal' bracket, but it had vast amounts of smaller stuff. :P
I think there's an increasing mecha storage problem with Battleships. Once you have non-Real Robots, size demands are liable to get bigger and bigger-huge Super Robots, Drones--but a Battleship is capped at 1 Colossal-sized mecha. The best solution other than 'nerf yourself' is currently 'leave mecha behind (I Am Invincible) and use Burning Justice' and 'devour drones, remake drones constantly, hope to not be attacked (Einst)'.Or you can go Ship Captain/Super Robot to further increase your battleship's size. The very multiclass rules for that are based on super humongous Macross after all. :p
I keep thinking about Gunbuster and the Exelion. Sure, it only had one Gunbuster, which fits neatly into the 'Colossal' bracket, but it had vast amounts of smaller stuff. :P
I don't see where the problem was?
Cause just cause a Battleship got big enough to be able to finally store 1 Colossal Mecha doesn't mean it can't store anything else but that 1 Mecha?
Or am I misunderstanding something?
It can store 1 mecha of its size category.
It can store 1 mecha of its size category.
Plus a number of mecha of the next size category down.
Plus more stuff of the 3rd size down.
Plus even more stuff of the 4th size down.
And so on and so forth.
Which is where my confusion comes from on what you are saying.
Cause what I am reading is you saying "If I have a Colossal Ship, I can put 1 Colossal Mecha inside that ship, and nothing else."
Am I wrong?
Mecha Transport: A battleship can load and carry one mecha of its own size, two mechas of one size category smaller, four mechas of two size categories smaller, and so on. Entering or exiting a battleship is a move action on the part of the mecha. The battleship can prevent 'aunfriendlies from entering.
QuoteMecha Transport: A battleship can load and carry one mecha of its own size, two mechas of one size category smaller, four mechas of two size categories smaller, and so on. Entering or exiting a battleship is a move action on the part of the mecha. The battleship can prevent 'aunfriendlies from entering.
I don't see any 'and' implied.
QuoteMecha Transport: A battleship can load and carry one mecha of its own size, two mechas of one size category smaller, four mechas of two size categories smaller, and so on. Entering or exiting a battleship is a move action on the part of the mecha. The battleship can prevent 'aunfriendlies from entering.
I don't see any 'and' implied.
Bolded it.
Commas are also not "or" in meaning or use. The use of them in that sentence has them being used to separate a list, not define a set of choices.
Yup. Unless you take Purity (the Saint option), magic still affects you.Good. I wanted to grab some magic items that will scale into my mech.
You can't activate it, but you ain't immune.
If the mech is sentient and uses my stats, does that mean that my CON bonus would give it extra HP?That's kinda hard to happen since Con bonus applies to HD and mecha have none of it.
I could just be cheesy and say that Colossal stuff can, within the rules, squeeze into a space one size smaller than them and thus you can now have 2 colossal mechas on 1 colossal ship :pFunny, but the interior of a ship isn't an empty space to allow to use the squeeze rules.
Nature's Oath: At 15th level 1/day, if you would die or your mecha be destroyed while in a location with natural vegetation, you can have trees and vines grow to repair your body and machine. You and your mecha recover all HP and remove all non-instantaneous ill effects from themselves, and can keep acting normally while you remain within 10 miles of the location that brought you back to life. If you go further away, or all the vegetation inside the radius is destroyed, you die.
This replaces the bonus feat a Super Pilot usually gains at 15th level.
A captain may choose to start with a bigger battleship up to colossal size, but this won't grant any mechanical benefit besides being able to carry more mechas, filling a bigger space and bigger size penalty to AC and attack rolls.Doesn't include reach.
Very well, added option of ending the oath.QuoteNature's Oath: At 15th level 1/day, if you would die or your mecha be destroyed while in a location with natural vegetation, you can have trees and vines grow to repair your body and machine. You and your mecha recover all HP and remove all non-instantaneous ill effects from themselves, and can keep acting normally while you remain within 10 miles of the location that brought you back to life. If you go further away, or all the vegetation inside the radius is destroyed, you die.
This replaces the bonus feat a Super Pilot usually gains at 15th level.
I think something is missing to allow you to move more than 10 miles from this place, ever, without dying and making it questionably useful as a replacement feature (sure, I can keep fighting for the one battle... in the right environment, and if we have to move on I drop dead?)
Also rewording, because it currently kills you if you move too far away and your mecha was the one broken.That's not a bug, it's a feature of being a tree-hugging elf. :p
I sure as hell would never want to use a class feature that loses me a level, and play time, in exchange for taking part in a fight I survived.Hmm, right now 1 minute worth of emo speech will remove the oath, it's not that much time and definitely not a level. :tongue
Also: a Super 19, Captain 1 can never use any Counters? I really hope Ships Full of Hope has none, too.You can as long as your enemy isn't adjacent (that's what makes cumbersome turn the ship flatfooted). Like, using ranged weapons from afar. Gives a reason for flying in close for point-blank blasts. Also "This Battle Isn't over Yet" is a counter that can be used only when an ally gets hurt.
So, you have rules for heavy melee weapons, but I haven't seen any weapons with that tag. Am I missing something?
So, a question about the Iron Charge stance in Into the Danger Zone: How long does the AC/Save bonus last? Until the start of next turn? Best bonus until stance is removed? I'm curious.
Primordial Pilot: The Einst Queen counts as a Pilot for meeting the prerequisites of feats, and her drones count as having the same Pilot level for any ability that cares about it. If she picks Funnel Control System, instead of robots she unleashes a massive swarm of diminutive Einst drones from her body, that follow the same game rules as funnels.
I would imagine most homebrew is intended to be RAI? No?Moon Vanguard doesn't really interact with pilot classes. The nanoarmor is a separate entity from the mecha/ship, and it growing to that kind of size would kinda defeat the whole point of the class of skimpy power armor.
Unrelated but
@OSLECAMO
So Moon Vanguard gets Nanoarmor that can emulate a Real or Super Robot.
What happens if a Moon Vanguard multiclasses into Ship Captain?
Does my Super Robot Nanoarmor get to become a Super Battleship somehow? :lmao
Psionics is fine too. Grab that feat that grants one psionic power.QuotePrimordial Pilot: The Einst Queen counts as a Pilot for meeting the prerequisites of feats, and her drones count as having the same Pilot level for any ability that cares about it. If she picks Funnel Control System, instead of robots she unleashes a massive swarm of diminutive Einst drones from her body, that follow the same game rules as funnels.
Sadly, Funnels demand spellcasting ability, so it's a rather unlikely option unless you just want one level of casting. Are they still supposed to still have that requirement, or was it an oversight?
For every 3 pilot levels you have, you can summon a weapon of a Level higher, up to weapons lvl VII when you reach pilot level 18Is it normal that there isn't a melee arsenal Lv5 weapon in the list? Otherwise there is nothing at that level to use the maneuver for.
for every 3 Ship Captain levelsBeing a maneuver, shouldn't it work out of pilot levels instead of levels in the class?
I actually considered Hidden Talent and taking funnels until I realised that I couldn't grant it to my drones instead, because they aren't casters. :lmaoBeen thinking on that, and decided that the best would be making a custom list of spells like I did for the Arcane and Divine Pilots. Even if it takes more work on my part.
Bard Progression? But what spell list? Druid stuff? Bards?
1- How does the Disarming weapon property works against Mechas? A mecha is expected to fight other mechas, so what's the point of disarming if their weapons are all built-in and undisarmable? Or does it make them unusable for a moment? I suppose Arsenal weapons could be disarmed but I don't think once disarmed you can just take them... unless perhaps one voluntarily keeps his arsenal points used lower to make some space for stolen arsenal weapons.I guess I naver clarified that. Added something about that in the weapons section.
Mecha weapons can be disarmed, representing the weapon being ripped off its supports. Built-in weapons gain a +4 bonus against disarm attempts. A mecha who had a weapon disarmed can pick it up and perform improvised repairs to make it work again as a move action that provokes attacks of opportunity. Each weapon is specially adapted to each mecha, even generic arsenal ones, and thus it's impossible to pick up and use disarmed weapons from other mechas during combat.
2-Engine Overload (Into the Danger Zone 1 Stance): Is it meant to be 1 extra energy per extra 5-ft. granted by this stance or indeed 1 extra point of energy per 5-ft. moved. Because that makes all your movement -before- you actually get to the extra movement granted by this stance require more energy.The stance is called "Engine Overload", not "efficient energy use", so yeah the bigger energy cost. And yes it's meant for mechas that have the extra energy to burn.
Ie: You have a fly speed of 60 and move 65 mu with this stance. As written, it costs 26 energy to move 5-ft. further than you would had you only paid 12 energy for 60-mu.
If it was only extra energy for the extra movement, you'd pay 2energy per extra 5 mu, so 65-mu would cost 14, which makes more sense. This level 1 stance otherwise won't be used much since no mecha will have all that much energy to use it.
3-Battleships and Ammo: I don't see where it says we can refill ammunition. The Cartridge accessory in the arsenal points out you can get a new cartridge when you go to the place where you can change your arsenal but that doesn't cover ammo in general. Otherwise, a battleship has ammo limits, and can be change its own arsenal over time. If it picks cartridges, by visiting its own battleship, doesn't that mean the captain's battleship get infinite ammo? It would make more sense if it took some time, but definitely not the time it takes to change arsenal. Making ammo isn't that time consuming. Also, if it takes Veteran Mechanics, does it gain infinite ammo?-Added clauses about that in the arsenal section of the battleship.
4-Relationship feat numbers: You'll be seeing more of those soon in-game, so I'd rather point out right away that I feel the numbers are a bit huge before I use them. Love gives a bonus to damage equal to HD up to x3. That is a -lot- of bonus damage just for being adjacent to your loved one when you attack, even for up to 3 feats.Yeaaahh, I had already kinda noticed that (your first encounter? They were all lovers) :blush
Friendship and Rivalry might be alright. I think.
5- Battleship Cruising Speed: It takes a full-round action to initiate the process, and then movement begins on its next turn? Or is it supposed to take a full-round action like withdrawing or running, and include the movement?The first fullround action doesn't include movement.
6- Magic Zephyr Sword-Just kidding (Burning Justice 1 boost):...Wait, it's melee only? It was supposed to be any weapon. Fixed. GETTER GATLING GUN!!!!!QuoteFor every 3 pilot levels you have, you can summon a weapon of a Level higher, up to weapons lvl VII when you reach pilot level 18Is it normal that there isn't a melee arsenal Lv5 weapon in the list? Otherwise there is nothing at that level to use the maneuver for.
7- Great Commander (Ships Full of Hope 3 Stance):Good point, changed to scaling to pilot level.Quotefor every 3 Ship Captain levelsBeing a maneuver, shouldn't it work out of pilot levels instead of levels in the class?
I mean, it already points out that "This doesn't do anything if you don't already have the leader feat." but it already doesn't do anything if you do don't have at least 3 levels in Ship Captain, which includes the Leader feat. It is very redundant. It would make sense if it worked out of pilot levels instead though, so perhaps that's what was intended.
8- Machinery Warrior Android: If it gets in One with the Machine mode with its mecha, is it supposed to heal from its own nanomachines plus those of its mecha? If so, at Self-Regenerating V they would pretty much heal all their HP at beginning of their every turn.Abilities with the same name don't stack unless noted otherwise. The nanomachines keyword is used for both, so it simply overlaps.
Yeaaahh, I had already kinda noticed that (your first encounter? They were all lovers)Speaking of which. There seemed to be a lot of attacks involved. How many synchro attacks can there be per turn?
-ie 3: Pilot A, B and C all have relationships with eachother (say, Love between A and B, Devotion between A and C, and Rivalry between B and C). They each attack the same target on round 1. They all get adjacent to eachother and start to synchro attack. Do they all participate in a single (or more depending on the answer for ie1) synchro attack or is it triggered for each relationship (Love synchro, Devotion synchro, Rivalry synchro)
No its a love triangle.
A loves B. (Love feat)
A & C are childhood friends (Devotion feat)
B & C are rivals for A's love (Rivalry)
Always assuming A & C are opposite genders :D
Its a classical, stereotypical cliche~
This example also sounds like a stunningly dysfunctional group of relationships.
No its a love triangle.That was kind of intended. :P
No its a love triangle.
A loves B. (Love feat)
A & C are childhood friends (Devotion feat)
B & C are rivals for A's love (Rivalry)
Always assuming A & C are opposite genders :D
Its a classical, stereotypical cliche~
Why does the gender of participants matter? :P
1- All 3 pilots attack the same target on round 1. On round 2, A attacks the target and triggers a synchro with B or C, or is it triggering two separate synchro attacks, one with B followed by another with C? Since C (or B) attacked the target as part of the synchro, it triggers a synchro attack with B (or C) or again with A. And so on. Unless attacks from synchro attacks cannot trigger another synchro attack and must be triggered by a attack that uses the pilot's own actions, which leads to...Yes, of course they can't trigger new attacks, otherwise you would get an infinite loop with just two pilots (A starts, B synchros, then A synchros, and so on). Clarified it.
2- All 3 pilots attack the same target on round 1. On round 2, A attacks the target and triggers a synchro with B. It then makes another attack and triggers another synchro with C. Then, B makes an attack of his own and triggers a synchro with A, then makes another attack and triggers a synchro with C. Finally, C makes two attacks of his own, triggering a synchro with A and then with B with the second attack.If A/B/C can make two separate attacks on their own per turn, yes, they can trigger two synchros. Remember that the action used for the attack is the same granted to the synchronized pilots.
Also... I like the soulmeld system. How does it work with your mecha system? From what I read, it doesn't seem like the big robots have an item slot they could use to channel the soulmelds.Pilot soulmelds, benefits are granted to the mecha.
CCS disagrees with you. :pNo its a love triangle.
A loves B. (Love feat)
A & C are childhood friends (Devotion feat)
B & C are rivals for A's love (Rivalry)
Always assuming A & C are opposite genders :D
Its a classical, stereotypical cliche~
Why does the gender of participants matter? :P
Because otherwise it's not a cliche. Otherwise, it's a studio trying to be edgy and different and pretending to do something unique when it's actually not but advertising it as if it was :eh
Basically, what I said is a cliche, and when it doesn't matter, it's a marketing ploy :P
Only if you're cool with it though.That depends widely on how good that independent mecha is when compared with the mechas given by the other classes when being piloted. And what the engineer can exactly do. And how much of a force multiplier the mecha engineer is for a group.
Because honestly right now the custom mecha alone seems to be plain superior. Basically works by itself, but gets its own customized maneuvers and feats and skills and then unique upgrades on top of that. And then the engineer seems like he'll have stuff of his own to do during combat. If you're gonna get two characters for the price of one, they need to be weaker, and if then they're also a lot more versatile, then that's still trouble.It shouldn't be that impressive. As far as two characters for the price of one goes, I aim for something between Einst drone and how good a Super Pilot's Sentient Imprinted mecha could be.
That depends widely on how good that independent mecha is when compared with the mechas given by the other classes when being piloted. And what the engineer can exactly do. And how much of a force multiplier the mecha engineer is for a group.The engineer gets class abilities if it doesn't get maneuvers. Unless it pilots the mecha himself or buy magic gear for the kids, the mecha won't benefit much from equipment other than arsenal.
If it takes class abilities instead, it should be about on par with what having divine spellcasting in mu-scale should offer to a group.
Spirits are not equal to the gap between a good robot and a bad one.The mecha is already suffering from not benefiting from self buff class abilities and copying your stats. That in itself is already a big nerf.
...good combat stats, combat feats, better skills than the divine pilot, and maneuvers, which will probably be superior to spirits.No. As I said, they get either the class abilities or the maneuvers. Not both.
No, it isn't, since it just means the engineer can dump their physical stats and their mecha still rocks at physical combat.QuoteSpirits are not equal to the gap between a good robot and a bad one.The mecha is already suffering from not benefiting from self buff class abilities and copying your stats. That in itself is already a big nerf.
The robot still gets independent actions and their own feats, which can all be specialized for combat.Quote...good combat stats, combat feats, better skills than the divine pilot, and maneuvers, which will probably be superior to spirits.No. As I said, they get either the class abilities or the maneuvers. Not both.
The robot doesn't get both.
Either way, it should be fine. If it feels too strong it'll be adjusted. The maneuverless mecha + engineering support should be no greater than an infiltrator einst queen with drones under queen's will.Thing is, the einst queen can't benefit other party members, so she's just a force multiplier for her own minions. That's a lot easier to balance.
By the way, do you have a suggestion for the character to portray it? You're more familiar to those series than I am.Funny that you mention that. Closest things I can remember are...
No, it isn't, since it just means the engineer can dump their physical stats and their mecha still rocks at physical combat.Only if there isn't an actual competent pilot piloting it.
"It's balanced because it doesn't have spirits!"The class is balanced by much more than the lack of spirits. That detail only makes it a lot less easy to abuse.
For Resupply, I'd compare with hit points. Regeneration of hp vs reactors for energy are at equal strength, though reactor is more available. Guts is 30 SP and Faith is 40 SP. Also, you don't die from having zero energy but you do if your hp drops to zero so hp so the value of energy vs hp feels difficult to assess.Thing is that you want your energy-recovering spirit to restore two mechas's supply. That's not how it worked on the game, not how the other spirits here work, and just restoring energy would be good.
I agree that it is a good limiter for powerful abilities but usually the greatest limiter of power is action-economy.
Zeal is 70 SP for a lot of extra power, so how much would an energy equivalent of Guts/Faith be?
Charge/Vigor Morale spirits: Yep. As I mentioned you already replaced Morale for some feats so I'm not sure about bringing a Morale system over this without the feats having to be done over.Yeah, between mechas and spirits I believed there were already more than enough subsystems for this.
Good one for Taunt/Exhaust!There's a reason why I have this avatar, you know? :p
I was also considering adding Mercy (10), which leaves an enemy close to death when it should die. For Dnd though perhaps it would translate better to dealing nonlethal damage or otherwise leaving a mecha disabled but not destroyed.Fine, go ahead and make your defeat without destruction spirit.
Also considering:Would probably work better if you specified more, like "ignores defensive abilities with Barrier/Shield/Whatever on its name."
Direct Attack (30) : Your next attack, if it hits, passes through
whatever defenses the opponent has, including Support Defenses and
any sort of barrier. It hits the enemy directly.
As for Hope, that's exactly what it did in the game. Was that spirit regeneration loop a thing or was it just not worth it considering who had access to it?O'rrly? Lefina has something to say about that. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=88AlHuMhS0A#t=623) Hope only recovered one ally's worth of SP. There's no two-target spirits in any SWR as far as I'm aware.
Otherwise I'm also thinking that perhaps more spirits should progress by pilot level, like Trust and Refresh. Especially those giving static bonuses.Trust and Refresh are special because healing effects are rare. However pilots are getting boosts to movement and hit/AC and damage from plenty of other sources, so the spirits that boost those don't need it if you ask me.
Thing is that you want your energy-recovering spirit to restore two mechas's supply. That's not how it worked on the game, not how the other spirits here work, and just restoring energy would be good.From the Spirit list I read on that game, it works exactly as I listed it.
Yeah, between mechas and spirits I believed there were already more than enough subsystems for this.Ha ha. Oh yes. Well agreed! Though... you know me; It is never too complicated to be playable. Dnd already has hundreds of subsystems without even counting homebrews so as far as I'm concerned its a big whatever.
More trivia, Mercy in the SRW games is more of a situational ability since there's at least always one mission where you need to reduce your target's HP to critical without killing them (usually because they have nukes, or are nukes, and killing them would mean everybody died).Ah, neat. I read it as more of a training spirit. Put an enemy to its knees so that weak ally of yours can be the one to finish it off and catch up with the big boys. In this campaign setting, this could actually be used to help promote mecha mooks.
Would probably work better if you specified more, like "ignores defensive abilities with Barrier/Shield/Whatever on its name."Wouldn't that be too much too specify? Anything that reduces the damage received (DR, Defend, G-Wall and so on) being ignored seems clear enough. Unless that spirit was meant to only ignore actual barriers but not other sources such as the spirit that reduces damage.
O'rrly? Lefina has something to say about that. Hope only recovered one ally's worth of SP. There's no two-target spirits in any SWR as far as I'm aware.No problem then! As I said, I picked those from Super Robot Taisen: Original Generation. Your video is from the second one.
Could it simply reduce the overcharged arsenal's bonus to 0 temporarily instead?Made it so that the acessory becomes nonfuctional for 10 rounds. Random chance to break doesn't sound like that much of a good idea to me.
I don't think I would ever use the option if it effectively removed the Arsenal item after one use for at least the rest of an ingame day.
Edit: Altho losing the booster just for the rest of the current encounter (or a set amount of time outside of combat if not in an encounter) after the single use I could get behind. And then being able continue to overcharge it further to continue the Boosting like I described just below until you break it.
I do however like this suddenly needlessly complicated idea about being able to Overcharge the same arsenal item for consecutive rounds, with each round after the 1st having an increasing percent chance of burning out the Arsenal item untiil you have a chance to change arsenal options (repairing/replacing the burnt out Arsenal option).
Also, sorta on the side and unrelated a bit, but Born to Fight's "Able to use maneuvers usually only accessible while piloting a mecha when outside the mecha 1/5 minutes" bit. Moon Vanguard counts as a Pilot class, and Nano Armor counts as a Mecha, so I could use not just the Pilot martial school maneuvers but also any martial school maneuvers (that aren't from Ace Pilot, Into the Danger Zone, or that 3rd SRW martial school) tied to the Moon Vanguard class 1/5mins as well couldn't I?
I never watched Zoids nor even saw their models selling. My only knowledge of them was seeing a GBA game seemingly based on them.
Could you point out Zoid's main selling points, what makes them stand out from other mechas? At first glance (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rgcSpzkxK8) it seems to be "animal-bots!". With the bad guys using dino-skeleton bots. Also something about organic metal from the wiki. Looks like something I could work with. But are the machines sentient? Any special energy sources? Are they powered up by believing in yourself? Do they regen? Also are they more melee based or shooty or hybrid?
Gosh that's such a perfect explanation I had to upvote ya. I couldn't have said it nearly so well
Edit: If anything, os, Zoids could provide a lot more interesting super robot options as you could potentially make them a subset of super robots.
Can you pick Soul of the Machine multiple times for a stacking effect?Yes.
Why are you banned from Hyperdimensional Storage now if you have Mysterious Power and/or Nanomachines?Because they were all basically auto-picks for any and every super robot even with increasing costs.
And while on that, by technicality, " You cannot pick this if you have either Nanomachines or Mysterious Power." BUT does it also mean if you picked it before you gained either of the regen upgrades, that you immediately lose and/or get refunded Hyperdimensional Storage?That cannot happen as Nanomachines/Mysterious power cannot be picked if you already have Hyperdimensional Storage.
Edit: Something I just noticed, but everytime a batch of changes come out to rebalance or buff Reals or Supers or both, all myThat's because my updates aren't meant to be power creeps. I nerf the options that are too OP while adding new ones.
Like, basically, every update some how nerfs Supers every time despite constantly adding options for them :???
I've a question about the Super Robot "Extra" upgrade. It says you get an extra basic weapon built in. Is that another one of the d10+str ones that come default, or what? On a similar note, how do you get ranged weapons like chest blasters and boost knuckles for your Grungust?
Which I argue continues to put nanomachines in the worst possible situation, because you're stuffed when it comes to anything but the inbuilt weapons for... healing. Refresh or Guts, one arsenal item to upgrade spirit? Supers have no reason to take the thing only Supers can get, because you lose a stupid amount of options for things you can do better with 25 Arsenal space.
How about enchantment? Can you enchant your mecha's weapons? I'm going to assume either you can't, or if you do you don't get to use the Over the Top feature of the I Am Invincible feat, but what if you're not going for that?You can't enchant your mecha's weapons/plating. I'll specify that later in the intro if it's not clear enough yet.
Also: The description for growth says standard benefits and penalties for size, except no stat changes and nat armor only increases by 1. By SRD, size changes don't change stats or nat armor at all. What changes are intended to be applied here?
Another few questions. Is it at all possible for super robots to get Heavy weapons? because I can't figure out a way to do it aside from Arsenal,Pick Paired weapon twice and you can combine them into an Heavy weapon.
and if that's the only way, why does it specify special bonuses for Heavy [Main] Weapons?You can get a Heavy [Main] weapon by multiclassing Super Pilot with either Real or Ship Captain.
Is it at all possible to get an Area weapon on a super without arsenal?Not before, but added that option to versatile.
Why do supers have the Blasting upgrade available? They can't have built-in ranged weapons.Well you can with Transform (tank). Also multiclass.
And if all Supers get from growth is +1 nat armor...what's the point, and why is it so restricted? +base size and bonus to maneuvers is typically not worth a penalty to hit and AC, so...why?
No weapons (that I can see) have a damage type listed. What damage types are everything? (relevant for bypassing DR)1. Echoing.
Added damage types across the boards.No weapons (that I can see) have a damage type listed. What damage types are everything? (relevant for bypassing DR)1. Echoing.
2. Also as is there is no point in using Minimization. Perhaps Great Agility/Targeting should be adjusted to provide extra bonuses if you focus on being smaller. Arsenal also appears unaffected by changing you mech size, maybe in a way this avoids penalizing Miniaturization but then again Built-Ins are which forces the smaller mechs to use Arsenal which inevitably forces all small Mechs to rely on melee (see below) where they will auto-fail opposing Grapple Checks which presumably disables use of their Arsenal and rely on their inferior Built-Ins for one sided battles.Added arsenal size scaling and miniaturization exception.
3. A more in depth look at DPR.You're ignoring the fact ranged mecha weapons get to add Dex mod to damage (1,5 times if you don't use other ranged weapons, x2 if it's heavy), plus mecha maneuver/stance synergy and whatnot.
Using Gargantuan, 30 Str/Dex, for the opposing DR without Arsenal you can reach 35 so let's go with that.
A) A Greatsword deals 24d6+10 (94 avg), it costs 6,400gp but while Enhancement costs don't rescale making a Masterwork version costs 44,800 so let's just stick to that normal figure. Assuming three attacks per round because maybe you're looking at taking lv14 that's 118 after DR.
B) Focusing on Mech weapons, you can take Mightyx8, Pairedx1, & Rending. This gives you a double 4d8+26 (44 avg) per attack action, or 156 post DR after six attacks. More attacks, more damage, but costs several upgrade points.
C) For Heavy let's look at the Antiship Beam Sword which is one of the most powerful weapons and as lv3 can be Linked and assuming Mightyx8, you get two attacks of 9d12+36 (94.5) for 119 which comes out pretty close to the cheap Greatsword but has Power/Concussive/Disarming making it a better choice unless you need to trade those Mech properties away for gear-related Arsenal.
Seems fair right? Well let's look at Ranged. A +10 Longbow costs 140,800gp so instead let's just go with a Heavy Repeater for 16d8 (72 avg) which is three attacks and 111 after DR. Built-Ins via Tank become 3d8+26 (39.5 avg) or 129 after DR. And for Arsenal we have two choices, Linked lv3 comes to 3d6+26 (36.5 avg) or 9 after DR and none-Linked comes to 4d6+26 (40 avg) or 15 post DR. Even moving back to a Heavy Railgun for 12d10+36 (102 avg) even after post Rending DR that's only 84. Ranged Arsenal just isn't worth using.
4. Minor nitpick but your Arsenal dice are all over the place with no discernible pattern beyond Ranged gets about an average of 1d6 per level.If I wanted a boring pattern, I would've written a boring pattern and posted it instead of writing down individual weapons.
6. btw, given the "future" nature of a Super Robot campaign how does this interact with the DMG's modern weapons such as a Shotgun or d20's weapons, since you have rail guns & colossal mechs, say a Pulse Rifle?
I'll probably check everything new in greater depths later but something stroke my eye when I glanced over the Great One upgrades;
Great Agility grants +40 mu movement speed while the normal seems to have the bonus be equivalent to 4 upgrade points in their respective kind of upgrade, but Agility gives 5 mu per point, so the Great One is effectively doubling the gains in speed.
Just pointing it out in case giving bigger speeds than the norm for four points wasn't intended.
Its colossal bonus to agility is also noted as granting DR.
Smaller creatures aren't faster than bigger creatures so speed boosts for being smaller doesn't make much sense.
As for the melee vs. ranged stuff, unless it's a super special weapon system, most fights with giant robots that aren't against disposable looks are generally won in melee in such shows.
That's my opinion *shrugs*
1. Added damage types across the boards.1. Cool.
2. Added arsenal size scaling and miniaturization exception.
3. You're ignoring the fact ranged mecha weapons get to add Dex mod to damage (1,5 times if you don't use other ranged weapons, x2 if it's heavy), plus mecha maneuver/stance synergy and whatnot.
4. If I wanted a boring pattern, I would've written a boring pattern and posted it instead of writing down individual weapons.
5. Ask your DM since they're optional rules that aren't even in the srd. In my case, they don't interact, point.
6. That too. Melee having higher damage output than ranged is a feature, not a bug, since otherwise nobody bothers trying to get in close.
Given that this is 3.5 homebrew focused entirely on implementing mecha, digging around in what's essentially a separate d20 game for wording is a path to having a scenario that is more confusing and has far many more unevaluated loose ends. I don't think this is a complete rules rewrite akin to Modern. <_<Not really and your missing the point worse than Ketaro. Like where in my post did I even come close to saying use d20's Mech system? Nowhere.
If I'm missing your point, it's because you go from what was obviously a response to rules to rules from another system to fluff in one paragraph with as little plain English as possible."to rules to rules!" :eh
If I'm missing your point, it's because you go from what was obviously a response to rules to rules from another system to fluff in one paragraph with as little plain English as possible."to rules to rules!" :eh
I don't really feel Modern is another system but you can pretend it's a super complex system not worth your time understanding if you like. Similarly you can also demand Ols to strip all flavor away for rule-text only because words scare the crap out of you. However my posts are directed at Ols and not the negative Nancy crowd bitching about things for the sake of bitching about things.
I'm not sure how many below-medium super robots there are, anyway. Lagann is, but it's meant to combine into bigger and bigger things. Buster Machine #7? Sure, but it's impossible to build Nono within the rules given in the slightest. When a single Getter Machine manages to be a mecha it still seems to avoid actually being small. It's just something that, even when they can do it, ends up going very big regardless.
There's a typo in the Nanomachines description. It says buying it additional times increases your Reactor level. Should say Regeneration, I think
1. Added damage types across the boards.1. Cool.
2. Added arsenal size scaling and miniaturization exception.
3. You're ignoring the fact ranged mecha weapons get to add Dex mod to damage (1,5 times if you don't use other ranged weapons, x2 if it's heavy), plus mecha maneuver/stance synergy and whatnot.
4. If I wanted a boring pattern, I would've written a boring pattern and posted it instead of writing down individual weapons.
5. Ask your DM since they're optional rules that aren't even in the srd. In my case, they don't interact, point.
6. That too. Melee having higher damage output than ranged is a feature, not a bug, since otherwise nobody bothers trying to get in close.
2., If mech weapons deal more now it'll probably replace simply increasing basic weapons unless you ran out of Arsenal space and the ranged side of Arsenal should catch up some too.
3. No I didn't, the +26 modifier is +10 Dex & +16 for Mightyx8 and the +36 Modifier for the Railgun is by applying Dex twice. I did however miss the x1.5 Rate for same weapon type, I thought using two Built-Ins, or two Antiship Sabers, or w/e & etc, meant no same weapon bonus. That'll tweak a few numbers.
4. Ha :p Seriously through, by switching dice back and forth, kind of like you already did, you can hide the DPR gains for each level being an even scaling increase. Plus all the properties can have a specific weight they add to the balance, you can produce tons of unique variations even through mechanically each one is only better than the other if the circumstances favor it and the never level up is almost always better than the last (specially giving the link property, eg +7 dmg < x2). See also #5.
5. They are "optional" rules because D&D games are set in the 1100s or so, not year ummm.... 5016?
A WoTC official d20 product built off the D&D 3rd Edition ruleset does over this area, and yes Modern has it's own public SRD. D&D registers in as PL3 while Eberron, which stole Modern's Action Point System, registers in at PL4. Are current technology level is supposed to be PL5 and mechs start showing up I think are PL7 and higher.
To call back to #4, there are literately dozens of weapons and equipment split through the PLs and there are a lot of unique weapons to be found. Like beam swords even show up in PL8, but even cooler? There is a gravity gun that use alternating attraction/repulsion to rip their targets apart and that sounds awesome! It's worth knowing Modern's system if you plan to build any type of future campaign and it gives you a ton of content to rip off, like do you have a targeting system that reduces concealment? Why not just steal the entry text for the Mech's X-ray visor? How about in your Star game why do we refer to are comm devices as cell phones instead of pipboys or omnitools? Because ambiguity. No one has asked, nothing has been written. A shortcut? PL8 tech is on the table, ask your DM what you can afford. There is a massive amount of world building content at your fingertips that just wants someone to shed some light on it.
6. The problem isn't Melee>Range and don't be confused with Ketaro's thinking it is. But Ranged Arsenal didn't (past tense since you altered a few things so a new crunch needs made) keep up with anything. You could make pretty viable ranged Built-Ins or increasing the size of basic weapons, just not if you were using Arsenal. I'll have to take a look at the changes tomorrow through and see what all was fixed.
Edit - One thing that may help is standardizing progression.
So like the Antiship Sword is 9d12 which of course appears no where on the table. You could use the de facto standard of +2 Size double and round down which means Large should be 13d12 (84.5 avg). You could also claim that since nothing converts into a d12 you need to switch it to the standard d6 or d8 and since 1d12 increased by one Size is 3d6 that comes out to 27d6 (94.5 avg). Perhaps a little less tactful since A) it deals more this way. B) Everything becomes Xd6 or Xd8. So I suggest the former.
4.Look, pure point-buy systems are cute and all, but they already were proved to be a failure. There's a reason why Gurps is some obscure barely played system while D&D/Pathfinder ended up the cool RPGs. And that reason is because no matter how hard you try to balance your pure point-buy system, you can never fully account for synergy, leading to eventually people figuring out the most synergistic combo and not using anything else. Case in point, the Super Robot is only half-point buy and still has been a pain in the ass to refine. If I also turn the weapons into a point buy, then all I end with is one single weapon build that everybody takes because everything else will be less self-synergistic. And that's a double failure when you take in account that big robots are supposed to be bristling with different types of weaponry practically be damned. Tl.Dr, fuck pure point buy with a giga rust getter voltekka.
most fights with giant robots that aren't against disposable mooks are generally won in melee in such shows.
most fights with giant robots that aren't against disposable mooks are generally won in melee in such shows.Well sure, but there are a bunch of giant robots that have their final moves be ranged, too. Gravion, Dancouga, Baldios, Zeorymer off the top of my head.
3.You still didn't adress the part where the mundane weapons have a much worst acuraccy.That's easy enough.
You can't enchant your mecha's weapons/plating. I'll specify that later in the intro if it's not clear enough yet.Which of course does not affect normal weapons. The Enhancement Bonus cost is the same on a Colossal+++ weapon as it is on a Fine--- weapon, the only thing that changes is the Masterwork fee which can be bypassed with stuff like Magic Weapon, or Minor Schemas of Weapon Augmentation or Concurrent Infusions, or Hilted Wands of Wraithstrike. So honestly Mech weapons are not the only thing with bonuses to attack.
most fights with giant robots that aren't against disposable mooks are generally won in melee in such shows.Well sure, but there are a bunch of giant robots that have their final moves be ranged, too. Gravion, Dancouga, Baldios, Zeorymer off the top of my head.
But saying "Unless it's with a super special weapon system" is like saying "Unless it's a normal fight". Most super robot shows just pull out some new weapon every other episode, then default back to the normal finishermost fights with giant robots that aren't against disposable mooks are generally won in melee in such shows.Well sure, but there are a bunch of giant robots that have their final moves be ranged, too. Gravion, Dancouga, Baldios, Zeorymer off the top of my head.
Which I also covered in my own post that I quoted for exclusions being for those really rare times when it's a "super special weapon system". Really not common.
What's the damage die on an Arcane Pilot's familiar pods?
Familiar:At 4th level the Arcane Pilot can summon a familiar as a sorceror/wizard. If he does so, his Arcane Robot will develop a special combat pod that can be piloted by the familiar. It has all the properties of the "parent" super robot, exceptSo say you had a Gargantuan Mech, it's 1d10 Built-Ins become 4d8 and your Familiar uses 2d8 or about 9 damage per attack if they hit. More if you use Mighty which isn't a "stat mod".
-Half max HP and 1/5 max energy.
-Only one natural weapon, however it can be shot with a range of 25 feet plus 5 feet per 2 CL, dealing untyped damage. Don't add or substract any stat mod to the damage in this case, and they ignore DR.
-Two size category smaller than the "parent" HP. Don't change ability scores, natural armor or natural weapon damage.
What's the damage die on an Arcane Pilot's familiar pods?QuoteFamiliar:At 4th level the Arcane Pilot can summon a familiar as a sorceror/wizard. If he does so, his Arcane Robot will develop a special combat pod that can be piloted by the familiar. It has all the properties of the "parent" super robot, exceptSo say you had a Gargantuan Mech, it's 1d10 Built-Ins become 4d8 and your Familiar uses 2d8 or about 9 damage per attack if they hit. More if you use Mighty which isn't a "stat mod".
-Half max HP and 1/5 max energy.
-Only one natural weapon, however it can be shot with a range of 25 feet plus 5 feet per 2 CL, dealing untyped damage. Don't add or substract any stat mod to the damage in this case, and they ignore DR.
-Two size category smaller than the "parent" HP. Don't change ability scores, natural armor or natural weapon damage.
I had a post related to this in the Phantasy Star game and my post observed that a Familiar copies the Hyperdimensional Storage upgrade allowing it to take Arsenal. So if you're level 14 pick up some Large Rectangular Launchers. since there is no clarification how to advance dice oddities, favorably it comes out to 18d8+[250% DexMod]*2, @+10 Dex & Mightyx8 that's 122 per shot. It's a lot but when you get into Evocation, and good Spells to which the Arcane Pilot has none, Familiars are pretty handy for multiplying your damage anyway. They come with the downside of XP lose if they die through so it's like dialing Glass Cannon up to eleven.
The real break point if you go this route though is that the Arcane Pilot can snag multiple Familiars. Extra FamiliarDragon280 is the only other method that can do this outside of other homebrew. And as you can expect, things get about as silly as a White Raven Specialist with Leadership.
So it's based on the built-in Super Robot weapons? (also, keep in mind that it says the size change doesn't affect the weapon damage)That's for Minimization only.
Growth: The super robot becomes one size category larger, gaining all standard advantages and penalties except ability score changes, and its Natural armor bonus only increases by 1. This can only be taken once for every 4 pilot levels. You cannot pick this if you picked Miniaturization.All through banning from taking both isn't really that helpful. Spend two upgrade points for +1 NA-AC & +1 Size to Built-Ins? Meh. Arsenal Melee probably dominates anyway.
Miniaturization: The super robot becomes one size category smaller, gaining all standard advantages and penalties except ability score changes, and it's Natural armor and In Built/Arsenal weapons damage doesn't change either. This can only be taken once for every 4 pilot levels, up to diminutive size at 12th pilot level. You cannot pick this if you picked Growth.
The mecha uses the pilot's base saves, BAB, skill bonuses, feats, and self-buff class abilities for fightingIs it meant to include racial abilities? Since the classes that grant new weapons are available to the mecha, is an android's integrated technology weapon added to the mecha's built-in weapons? It would only be the arsenal 1, though, as long as it doesn't choose to swap it for one of the mecha's. One With the Machine suggests androids are mostly meant to pilot mechas as otherwise all they get is an arsenal weapon and a penalty. The CAST type is minor.
Also I see that now that they are increasing with size, optimizing their damage becomes very easy despite the limit set through energy and ammo. Perhaps the damage increase for size should be static for arsenal weapons rather than exponentialI was thinking of the same thing the other day but there is no easy way to do this.
+X damage per Size increase is the simplest but it doesn't keep up with normal weapons or Built-Ins which use exponential increases. Ideally all choices should be balanced in terms of each other without resorting to banning.I'd recommend keeping it all super simple and avoid everyone having to figure what's the next size (not hard, but still...) by having all size increases progress as if they were a greatsword. No matter the base die.
So, if a Battleship Captain/Super Pilot puts main weapon on his main guns, he'll be doing 114d6 damage at level 20 on an Area weapon. Sure, it's Heavy, but that's still absurd:plotting
Main Beam Cannon 1d12(S)You mean 20d12 right? Also that only comes out to 98 damage, or 93 after a +10 Modifier with single weapon & Heavy bonuses and Mightyx10 vs a now drastically out scaled 35 DR.
Size: huge by default. A captain may choose to start with a bigger battleship up to colossal size, but this won't grant any mechanical benefit besides being able to carry more mechas, filling a bigger space and bigger size penalty to AC and attack rolls. This decision may be changed whenever another Ship Captain level is gained.
That's why I specified cross-classing and using a Main Weapon. each instance of the Main Weapon upgrade increase die size by 1, and you can take it 3 times for your Main WeaponSo, if a Battleship Captain/Super Pilot puts main weapon on his main guns, he'll be doing 114d6 damage at level 20 on an Area weapon. Sure, it's Heavy, but that's still absurd:plottingMain Beam Cannon 1d12(S)You mean 20d12 right? Also that only comes out to 98 damage, or 93 after a +10 Modifier with single weapon & Heavy bonuses and Mightyx10 vs a now drastically out scaled 35 DR.
Size: huge by default. A captain may choose to start with a bigger battleship up to colossal size, but this won't grant any mechanical benefit besides being able to carry more mechas, filling a bigger space and bigger size penalty to AC and attack rolls. This decision may be changed whenever another Ship Captain level is gained.
Let's look at the Boost Hammer's 8d8 & Linked for a lv20 Mech-Medium Sized Real Pilot: 424 after DR.
Also 114d6 only deals 399 damage on average, or 364 after DR making it only 85% of melee's old damage.
So while your calculation is inaccurate and better than the rest of the ranged weapons, it still comes up short.
But yes, after Ols's patch to outscale normal weapons the same hammer now deals 2,440 after DR which I think is supposed to be your real point.
Battleship=Mech?It's in the introduction
Nothing in the text seems to support it in the Ship Captain thread.
...Reading it again, I did the damage wrong, because you need to take 4 levels of super robot pilot, not 1. It's only 96d6. And while it is less damage, it's an Area weapon, so it can hit a lot more targets
Ship Captain multiclassing with others:(click to show/hide)
So I've started up a campaign, and is it just me, or is Iron Charge absurd?Iron Fury is Dervish's 10th level 1/day capstone about twelve levels earlier and multi-use. And if you're Magic Jar'ed or Mind Switched Unbreakable Will ignores the effect so I guess there is now two of you or maybe it's a temporary switch back (what if your old body was reduced to ashes?). I suppose it's still better than Break the Unbreakable out of Burning Justice. You can just sit in a portable hole on another plane and auto-hit anyone.
Didn't you lecture me about using Sadism with a laser once when I hadn't considered the group thing?Yep I did.
Mostly, it's just that you're making the point more complex than it needs to be. There's something that can do absurd damage in one go, sure, but...I just brought up a very simplified point that lv5 Colossal Arsenal melee weapon deals 80d8 and can be linked to double the attacks if you have lv6 access less than 10 posts ago and it's on this very page. :eh
Effects that benefit hugely from doing damage are a separate kettle of fish entirely. Seems odd to not stick to the one point (maneuver has out of hand damage) when there's so many things in the system that a single effect with uncapped scaling is all sorts of trouble anyway .
What's the damage die on an Arcane Pilot's familiar pods?Same as the "parent" super robot.
Also, the Arcane Pilot's Favored Spell class feature says it improves their maneuvers. I'm going to assume that meant spells?Correct, fixed.
A few things.Racial abilities pass to the mecha. Although I would disagree with "CAST type is minor" since it's pretty much the same as warforged and warforged are one of the most popular 3.5 races.
Mecha buffs and Androids:QuoteThe mecha uses the pilot's base saves, BAB, skill bonuses, feats, and self-buff class abilities for fightingIs it meant to include racial abilities? Since the classes that grant new weapons are available to the mecha, is an android's integrated technology weapon added to the mecha's built-in weapons? It would only be the arsenal 1, though, as long as it doesn't choose to swap it for one of the mecha's. One With the Machine suggests androids are mostly meant to pilot mechas as otherwise all they get is an arsenal weapon and a penalty. The CAST type is minor.
If racial abilities do not pass to the mecha, is a mecha unaffected by the soulless negative ability?
Cheer/Fortune spirits: Might want to put a limit to it so that someone with, say, Leadership, do not get a huge amount of extra weapons/feats by training his horde and having weak mooks fed to them.Good point, added non-stacking.
Dream spirit: As written, if someone uses Dream to mimic Gain, Cheer, Gamble and Fortune... they'll keep each effect going until they use Dream to emulate them again. Which is too good considering they'll likely never emulate them again anyway.Added that they end if you Dream again.
Friendship/Devotion relationship feat: Same as Cheer, with a group of minions that keep bringing you back/giving you rerolls and the like.Well that's actually intended to promote "kill the mooks first/simultaneously!".
Arsenal: Any reach weapons in there? Doesn't seem to be any except for the Field Lance, maybe.No reach. It's kinda of a clunky mechanic to begin with and not really in the spirit of mecha.
Also I see that now that they are increasing with size, optimizing their damage becomes very easy despite the limit set through energy and ammo. Perhaps the damage increase for size should be static for arsenal weapons rather than exponential; A damage increase that is the same for all weapons. That or reducing the high number of dice and the costs. Perhaps. That's the first impression, at least. I'd need a moment to test it out.
I'll probably work on a review of the new Machine discipline when I'm back later this evening.
That sounds good, added it to the Index. Thanks!Quote+X damage per Size increase is the simplest but it doesn't keep up with normal weapons or Built-Ins which use exponential increases. Ideally all choices should be balanced in terms of each other without resorting to banning.I'd recommend keeping it all super simple and avoid everyone having to figure what's the next size (not hard, but still...) by having all size increases progress as if they were a greatsword. No matter the base die.
Normal -> Large = +1d6 dmg
Large -> Huge = +1d6 dmg
Huge -> Gargantuan = +2d6 dmg
Gargantuan -> Colossal = +2d6 dmg
Maybe an extra d6 per increase for heavy weapons. That way weapons with a huge base damage get better with size as well and remain better than the rest without getting blown out of proportions.
The same could apply to Real Robots' built-in weapons if they were to have their sizes changed. Normal weapons remain as is, since they have their own rules and are usually found with a reasonable die-size for their medium-sized base damage.
So, if a Battleship Captain/Super Pilot puts main weapon on his main guns, he'll be doing 114d6 damage at level 20 on an Area weapon. Sure, it's Heavy, but that's still absurdWith the new sizing rules that should be less crazy.
So I've started up a campaign, and is it just me, or is Iron Charge absurd? on a super robot, with no boosts to move speed, that's basically just +6 AC and saves as a stance, with no downsides other than not being in a different stance. if your primary weapon is area? +18 to both. Am I missing something? because those numbers are insane. It should be, at the very best, +1 per 10 Mu, not per 5Mu, or only count displacement, not movement (as it stands, you can move three squares back, then three squares forward, for +6 AC and saves). Maybe cap the bonus at half pilot level?Nerfed it to +1 AC/saves per 15 mu moved in a straight line and only triggers out of basic movement.
One more thing about Iron Charge. Is it supposed to be +1 save every 4 Mu? should that be every 5?
Nerfed Iron Fury and Battle Lust as well.So I've started up a campaign, and is it just me, or is Iron Charge absurd?Iron Fury is Dervish's 10th level 1/day capstone about twelve levels earlier and multi-use. And if you're Magic Jar'ed or Mind Switched Unbreakable Will ignores the effect so I guess there is now two of you or maybe it's a temporary switch back (what if your old body was reduced to ashes?). I suppose it's still better than Break the Unbreakable out of Burning Justice. You can just sit in a portable hole on another plane and auto-hit anyone.
*shrugs*
You should try reading Danger Zone's 9th, as long as the weapon you choose uses ammo/energy you can spam it until it's dry. Quick calc would be Colossal lv5 Heavy Beam, 80d8 damage for 1 energy, @+10 ability, Heavy, Mightyx9, add another +48 to that, then of fource you have to work out Energy. 170 base, 180 for Batteryx9, a lv4 Large Generator for +50 more, and a lv2 Generator for +10 more. That's 80d8+48 (408/hit, or assuming DR 40/- 368, four hundred and ten attacks later and you dealt 77,080 damage.
Now use Battle Lust to gain +7,708 Strength for one round and combine it a Linked Brutal weapon, Arsenal or Mech Upgraded (slash ripped has area), and don't forget that +50% bonus for using one type of weapon. [W]+X+5,781 per attack, two attacks per attack action, and at least four attacks for your Full-Round Action and you should easily hit close to fifty thousand damage for your round two follow up.
Which gives you a +5,000 Strength bonus for the next round!
65% chance.3.You still didn't adress the part where the mundane weapons have a much worst acuraccy.That's easy enough.
Repeating the examples from before, blowing 19 Upgrade Points & 75 Arsenal a Super Mech can get 43+Dex AC. His opponent spends 8 Upgrade Points and 25 Arsenal points to counter and even using a nonmagical weapon with no Feats or Class Features added in has a 65% chance to hit and I purposely avoided bringing in magic because someone didn't like my Splitting example else where and called it broken.
But then there is this.But the mech wapon attack bonus is in-built. You don't need to spend actions/WBL/feats, and can spend those resources in other more interesting stuff And even weapon enhancement only goes up to +5 to attack rolls pre-epic, whereas the high level arsenal weapons can have over +10 bonus.You can't enchant your mecha's weapons/plating. I'll specify that later in the intro if it's not clear enough yet.Which of course does not affect normal weapons. The Enhancement Bonus cost is the same on a Colossal+++ weapon as it is on a Fine--- weapon, the only thing that changes is the Masterwork fee which can be bypassed with stuff like Magic Weapon, or Minor Schemas of Weapon Augmentation or Concurrent Infusions, or Hilted Wands of Wraithstrike. So honestly Mech weapons are not the only thing with bonuses to attack.
Likewise, since a majority of that 43 AC comes from Dodge bonuses (agilityx8 & bio sensor) you can use the Natch System to remove them, reducing your target's optimized AC by at least twelve points. It's one of the reasons I spammed it on Bahamut at the start of the Phantasy Star campaign even through the modifier was pretty low, if you roll badly on Spot it meant I would hit with anything anyway.That goes for both weapons. It just means the railgun can reliably snipe you from even further away.
4. That's a little extreme tilted, I'm just talking about narrowing the wide dots like one Arsenal level gives a +0 increase to ranged damage while another Arsenal level gives almost +100 to melee. That's a pretty wide margin and you don't have to move to a Point Buy system to fix it, just trim the dice averages a little closer together and maybe try to compensate for Rending's ability to ignore half the target's DR. This also directly correlates with #6 because in your near random figures you've produced a problem that ranged Arsenal weapons don't really serve much use.Maybe that's just me, but I believe ranged weapons purpose is to fight at range, not close in to 20 mu to have slightly better than 50% odds at hitting your targets. However I can't push their damage too high or melee mechas get blown up before they ever get a chance to close in.
Which speaking of, did you catch the edit to explain how you want the dice to progress?[/i]
A more time consuming solution would be to rebuild the Arsenal table using the expected values. Like if a Longsword deals 6d6 at Colossal, then a Mech's level 1 sword choice should to.Barring shenigans, you can never afford a colossal longsword at level 1.
Level 2 Arsenal could see the additional of limited attack bonuses and/or new properties to keep up with the ability to enhance normal weapons.In case I still didn't make it clear enough, fiddly weapon customization can go die in a black hole for this project. Mechas regularly discard and swap weapons like normal people swap socks. Spending half your resources into a single one will not be an option.
In my unqualified opinion the system needs a huge rehaul and I got bored.
So I thought of a rough draft for mechanics, but since Ols fears everything looking alike I won't tell you the secrets. Glance at this and tell me which ones totally are copies of uncreative stagnation.
"CAST type is minor" since it's pretty much the same as warforged and warforged are one of the most popular 3.5 races.Thought the immunities it does get were denied as well. Didn't see it right. Never mind!
That might be pretty hard considering they don't even have to be there. They can take turns using it while miles away in their homes since they don't even require being close or even seeing the fight.QuoteFriendship/Devotion relationship feat: Same as Cheer, with a group of minions that keep bringing you back/giving you rerolls and the like.Well that's actually intended to promote "kill the mooks first/simultaneously!".
Random musings: I was thinking about removing energy progression and standardizing costs, since right now energy reserves scale pretty quickly but energy costs don't scale at all. Make energy work more like how arsenal costs work right now. Anyone has thoughts on it?Tricky. Something to consider... would removing all extra reactor options be a bad thing? Or perhaps increasing the recovery cost of the maneuvers to make them harder to spam.
Actually they do, since you can't take immediate actions if flat-footed.QuoteThat might be pretty hard considering they don't even have to be there. They can take turns using it while miles away in their homes since they don't even require being close or even seeing the fight.QuoteFriendship/Devotion relationship feat: Same as Cheer, with a group of minions that keep bringing you back/giving you rerolls and the like.Well that's actually intended to promote "kill the mooks first/simultaneously!".
Even with proximity rules, they could be standing about in plain sight among other civilians and watching the fight. Can't start a witch-hunt in the middle of a fight so you're mostly stuck with indiscriminate slaughter.That's surprisingly appropriate for the mecha genre. Either make sure to evacuate the civilians or you need to butcher everything that moves just to be sure.
I don't see a way to stop abusing this that doesn't involve a cooldown between applications. One 2nd effect per round and one 3rd effect per minute or somesuch. There's certainly another ways to deal with it but as is it is way too easy. Or then everyone gets a hundred minion spammers and the fights never end.If you have a hundred minion spammer that can you can customise the stats for, then it's pretty hard to end the fight even with no relationship feats.
Basic layout I have in my mind is something along the lines of:QuoteRandom musings: I was thinking about removing energy progression and standardizing costs, since right now energy reserves scale pretty quickly but energy costs don't scale at all. Make energy work more like how arsenal costs work right now. Anyone has thoughts on it?Tricky. Something to consider... would removing all extra reactor options be a bad thing? Or perhaps increasing the recovery cost of the maneuvers to make them harder to spam.
Getting more energy already increases the amount recovered every round, so having enough energy is still possible to those that invest in it while making it harder to manage for those who don't. Maybe coupled with lower energy gains if you want to make it harder to manage.
The maneuver's energy-based recovery otherwise has to be revamped with your suggested standardization. If you do bring it to every maneuver's recovery costing the same, however, you may have to bring back the readied maneuvers since the resource per level is no longer linked to their power (since having acces to everything known like a sorcerer is no longer limited by higher costs for strongest stuff).
I'd say go for standardization since many low-level maneuvers scale and having to get the costs to account for it (such as they do with psionic powers) is too much of a hassle.
Random musings: I was thinking about removing energy progression and standardizing costs, since right now energy reserves scale pretty quickly but energy costs don't scale at all. Make energy work more like how arsenal costs work right now. Anyone has thoughts on it?Energy does need reworked by quite a bit. The weapons go from barely using it, with no notation if it's per hit/missed attack or per round for ambiguity too, to here is a 200 energy antimatter sword, so hope you saved up.
Racial abilities pass to the mecha.So a Shifter piloting a Mech can grow claws?
For the Phantasy Star campaign, given Leadership feeding is not something you'll agree with and how you banned using cost reduction to obtain more items than you should, how do you feel about using followers to feed you all their wealth so you can spend 159k on your character's gear when you should have a 110k limit?Cheer/Fortune spirits: Might want to put a limit to it so that someone with, say, Leadership, do not get a huge amount of extra weapons/feats by training his horde and having weak mooks fed to them.Good point, added non-stacking.
No reach. It's kinda of a clunky mechanic to begin with and not really in the spirit of mecha.You really have an anti-range stance here :p
That sounds good, added it to the Index. Thanks!The change to +6d6 for Colossal should nerf a ton of the more recent figures.
I HATE RANGE!*sigh*
If energy regen is that tight, it sounds like readied maneuvers are going to give you more opportunity to use even mid-level maneuvers. Let alone counters. Also moving, and in some scenarios normal attacks.
Also, reminder that two of the arsenal options take more than 100 energy per attack. :lmao
Yes. Not sure if they're still worth it.Racial abilities pass to the mecha.So a Shifter piloting a Mech can grow claws?
No.For the Phantasy Star campaign, given Leadership feeding is not something you'll agree with and how you banned using cost reduction to obtain more items than you should, how do you feel about using followers to feed you all their wealth so you can spend 159k on your character's gear when you should have a 110k limit?Cheer/Fortune spirits: Might want to put a limit to it so that someone with, say, Leadership, do not get a huge amount of extra weapons/feats by training his horde and having weak mooks fed to them.Good point, added non-stacking.
The irony since reach weapons make it harder to 5-feet step away to fire safer.No reach. It's kinda of a clunky mechanic to begin with and not really in the spirit of mecha.You really have an anti-range stance here :p
POS bow vs uber optimized AC and you're like nah it's hit rate sucks. No kidding, it didn't spend anything on it's attack. And 20mu range? Actually with hide and wanting to hit 95% on the first attack it's 60mu, 100mu if you spend 150gp on a scope. But more importantly is the fact that these things are comparable which means there is no clear choice that players will ever pick. It's a shame through that Ranged already provokes AoOs, have penalties when shooting into melee, obstacle rules favor melee/flanking, and you purposely added a serve limitation on multi-round usage and reduced damage on top of that. Additionally you're little rant about how you should spend gold on cooler things than weapons is self-defeating becuase maybe I want to spend upgrade points on cool stuff to. But I bring this up because the only way Built-Ins can have all those penalties added is by taking Transform(tank) and also giving up Flight. Jesus, it's not like a melee opponent can't simply charge someone in the first place you don't need to screw Ranged over at every single step. Also Gear dependent? Hi Welcome to D&D and let's add a Mech that if you glue the hatch shut it will piss off a player far more than a disarmed weapon will because you've created a campiagn setting that's more dependant on items than the Power Rangers need morphers. :bangheadWell if it's one of the reasons I added the tac feats that allow a super to summon their ride and the real to call mook machines that they can commandeer.
It basically just boils down to the whole "I hate you, this topic is a black hole, forget about it" part. SRW the board game includes Gundams which are primarily ranged combatants but I guess you're entirely focused on Mazinger Z or Getter Robo (which ever one is like no guns!).Double irony since Getter has a machine gun and Mazinkaizer SKL dual-wields pistols.
Then you're off thinking the action scene of the underdog shooting people to steal their guns to shoot more people is far more interesting than how the very media genre you're trying to mimic doesn't do that. They are badass robots and they get unique weapons/traits/decals, underdog weapon swapping is for the loser's crowning moment of achievement which only happens once. And do you know what the irony is? It's not that you can steal a lv7 gun, but no one is going to run around stealing guns in the first place like you imagine them to because your guns suck so bad the only thing PCs are going to steal is a melee weapon, if it's better, and keep it forever.
I feel you are mechanically pushing people towards one choice even through you claim you don't want that. I also feel like you pushing irrelevant themes that are not in the mimicked material. I also feel like the homebrew is all over the place and needs a ton of work with some ridiculously borked traits in it that give me stuff like off handed examples of seventy thousand damage to use as a point when I feel like it. But, you just don't want to hear about so w/e. I've lost my urge to give a fuck.
Double irony since Getter has a machine gun and Mazinkaizer SKL dual-wields pistols.
Gundams on the other hand get more than their share of kills in melee. Heck, the more recent gundam animes, Iron Blooded Orphans, Unicorn and Thunderbolt, all have their climatic battles end with "Drive me closer, I want to hit them with my sword/fist."
And the only recorded instance of a Zaku II (aka basic "evil grunt") defeating a Gundam was by a pilot managing to get close enough to hit them with their heat axe. Because the Zaku II's basic machine gun and even the rocket launcher never managed to do anything more than scratch a Gundam's paint even when wielded by named ace pilots.
The irony since reach weapons make it harder to 5-feet step away to fire safer.That's not how you use the word irony.
Well if it's one of the reasons I added the tac feats that allow a super to summon their ride and the real to call mook machines that they can commandeer.But you require PCs to spend their Feat Slot resources in order to lessen the threats of something taking their required gear away.
Double irony since Getter has a machine gun and Mazinkaizer SKL dual-wields pistols.So coincidentally, you're crapping on all three of the franchises instead of one.
But you can, just pick arsenal and take your picks. Sure they're not going to be boss-finishers, but that was never their purpose to begin with. Mazinkaiser/Getter/Dancounga use guns to either clear away mooks that aren't worth spending energy on or wear down bigger enemies at range before getting close enough for rip and tear.
Double irony since Getter has a machine gun and Mazinkaizer SKL dual-wields pistols.
Gundams on the other hand get more than their share of kills in melee. Heck, the more recent gundam animes, Iron Blooded Orphans, Unicorn and Thunderbolt, all have their climatic battles end with "Drive me closer, I want to hit them with my sword/fist."
And the only recorded instance of a Zaku II (aka basic "evil grunt") defeating a Gundam was by a pilot managing to get close enough to hit them with their heat axe. Because the Zaku II's basic machine gun and even the rocket launcher never managed to do anything more than scratch a Gundam's paint even when wielded by named ace pilots.
I think the point is that you can't give Getter its machine gun, nor Mazinkaiser SKL its pistols, nor Dancouga any of its multitude of guns, etc....
And while sure, Gundams have some awesome melee....Unicorn's Beam Magnum is much stronger than any of its melee weapons, and the majority of lead gundams (barring Exia/00/Quan[T], Barbatos, and the GBF leads) are primarily ranged. Wing's Buster Rifle, Zeta's Hi Mega Launcher, Double Zeta's High Mega Cannon, F91's VSBRs, Nu's Fin Funnels (which are admittedly available), Freedom/Strike Freedom's absurd quantity of ranged weapons...Remind me, what gundam series had the big bad finished by one of the supposedly super ranged weapons?
If anything, if you want to show those awesome Gundam finales, you should make ranged strong, and then make Sunder a powerful option, because that's what usually happens.
Something I've just noticed. With the energy rework, you didn't change the cost on Funnels, so now it's even harder to use 'em effectively. I dunno if this is intentional or not.Missed it, standardized to 5 energy per round, thanks!
About the Energy revampThanks as well, removed the multiclassing leftovers and updated Einst queen as well.
In case it wasn't meant to be, the multiclassing rules still grant increases to energy per class level.
The Einst Queen infiltrator has scaling energy as well (including its multiclassing options) along with the old energy recovery (though it'd be more limited in that department).
The Super Pilot still has energy increases with its super upgrades (though that may be supposed to be an alternative to Arsenal options).
In case that the Real Pilot and Super Pilot are meant to have energy increase options, the Ship Captain is then very limited in that department; I've a hard time imagining it doing much in a fight with its main cannon costing 50 energy and trying to use its maneuvers on top of it all. Along with flying around. It has enough arsenal space to have one reactor quality or more energy, but with the default recovery being at 5 per round a reactor is almost mandatory to do anything.Reduced energy beam cannon cost to 15. "Charging my lazzors" is something that's already represented by using either spirits/maneuvers or the super robot's upgrade.
For the Main Cannon, maybe it'd be cool to have its energy cost be based on its number of base damage die, you could lower its damage for lower energy costs, which could lead to 'charging the lazzer' for a max-power shot.
The Main weapon now costing a whoopin' 10 energy per attack per pick of the upgrade suddenly makes it anything but a main weapon. It suddenly becomes the one you try to use the most sparingly since it empties your energy reserve. Except perhaps for a heavy weapon for maximum effect on multiple targets with a single attack. With 3 picks making it 30 energy per attack... I'll just note I didn't consider the second and third pick of Main to be worth their energy cost and now that the energy pool is reduced along with the energy increases, I'm not sure why anyone would consider them except perhaps to combine with a spirit/effect that guarantees a critical hit... M'yeah.Reduced energy cost to 5 per increase.
As for sundering, yes it's a common theme in giant robot shows, however from a gaming perspective, it would mean players pretty much need to go restock to a base after every battle to replace destroyed weapons. That's why I added the Disarming property, allowing you to remove weapons that can be easily replaced after the battle is over.
Although I'm all ears, how would such an "easy sunder" system work? First guy to win initiative blows up the other dude's biggest weapon and whoever goes second is left running a losing battle as both their damage potential and HP have been crippled and they can't recover their damage potential? Or just make ranged weapons super easy to sunder while melee ones are more durable?
That's....wow that's terrible. How is that a Main Weapon now? Your main weapon is one that you always use the most and can always rely on. That on top of the incredibly reduced max energy values and the even more butchered energy regen and the awesome amount of methods the SRW system has for getting additional actions and attacks and move above the normal, all of which also need energy expended on them on top of the general maneuver costs and I'm starting to find this overhaul unplayable in any sort of casual means and that's just in regards to the new rules for Energy ~.~Ok, removed the main weapon energy cost completely.
This is going to be like completely making a new character soon when the level up comes around in Phantasy Star.....
I get that weapon swapping may be a sort of thing in mecha animes, but in D&D you generally have little need or want to bother switching weapons except when one stops working or when you have another that'd work better on a particular opponent. I get we're trying to emulate mecha animes here, but we're also D&D at the core of it with all this :-\
But I get your point, so I've added a new weapon property, Volatile. It gives a 50% chance of the weapon going boom when the mecha suffers damage or they roll a natural 1 on the attack roll, but you can't lose more than 1 volatile weapon each round this way. Added a bunch of new ranged Arsenal weapons whose names may or may not appear familiar with the Volatile property but otherwise have the highest damage values at each tier.Awesome! This fixes pretty much all of the issues I had with this :)
Also added Generic Universal Neo Dynamic Assault Mobile Suits to the real pilot, no built-in weapons or special abilities, but bigger arsenal space, need to spend at least 25% of it on weapons.
But I get your point, so I've added a new weapon property, Volatile. It gives a 50% chance of the weapon going boom when the mecha suffers damage or they roll a natural 1 on the attack roll, but you can't lose more than 1 volatile weapon each round this way. Added a bunch of new ranged Arsenal weapons whose names may or may not appear familiar with the Volatile property but otherwise have the highest damage values at each tier.Awesome! This fixes pretty much all of the issues I had with this :)
Also added Generic Universal Neo Dynamic Assault Mobile Suits to the real pilot, no built-in weapons or special abilities, but bigger arsenal space, need to spend at least 25% of it on weapons.
That said, I just noticed that Machinery Warriors still get EN scaling with level. Is this intentional? (I could see it being intentional, because they're supposed to have super endurance, but I want to make sure)
Speaking of the Machinery Warrior, I've always wondered; since both the pilot and the mecha gain the regeneration quality, if an android uses One with the Machine, doesn't that technically grant a double regeneration effect to the mecha, (the regen of the mecha itself + the regen of the pilot) since effects that heal either heal the mecha?
Ugh, I get that this system apparently needed a lot of rework but dang. I only got done making my Moon Vanguard the other week.Yeah but it helps when you don't do stuff like this.
Friendship/Devotion relationship feat: Same as Cheer, with a group of minions that keep bringing you back/giving you rerolls and the like.Well that's actually intended to promote "kill the mooks first/simultaneously!".
One with the machine always worked because it allows you to buff your Mecha's max HP, making it able to tank more damage before going down. Otherwise Androids end as magical reverse entropy holes that reward you for stuffing your cockpit with mooks with cure light wounds wands and other healing multiplier shenigans.
I don't think you get what I mean.
The way it works right now, an Android under OwtM would keep both its own HP and the Mecha's separate.
But damage suffered by the mecha is also dealt to the android. Though healing to the mecha doesn't go to the android and healing to the android doesn't go to the mecha.
Android has 100 hp and uses OwtM. The mecha receives 50 damage. Android also receives 50 damage.
Mecha heals 30 damage with a spirit, android doesn't heal. Mecha receives 60 damage, so does the android.
The mecha still has enough hp to still be up and running, but the android got killed.
It is like every attack deal critical hits. For it to work, it would have to stop the android from suffering the damage as well or get the healing too. Otherwise the android will indeed need a horde of mooks healing it all the time to stop his mecha from kill it because it cannot keep up with its healing. Before they shared the the same HP and if the mecha was destroyed the android died. Now it just makes it easier to kill the pilot.
Ketaro, you're the one misreading things here.
First One with the Machine doesn't add HP together, it makes the mecha's max hp equal to the android's max HP. So you should never use it if your mecha has more HP than your android.
Second, Anomander specifically used healing on his example. Since the healing's isn't magically multiplied, if you try to abuse healing effects on the mecha's boosted HP pool, the android pilot themselves cannot keep up if you're making an uber self-healing build.
However if you're not (ab)using self-healing effects, then it becomes a moot point since the mecha will reach 0 HP at the same time as the android pilot. But was able to tank more damage if the Android had higher HP than the mecha in the first place.
But if you are not making such a build , it's a net gain while the mecha lasts, in particular when you take in account the mecha auto-ejects the pilot when it reaches 0 HP.That wouldn't work well. The android would normally die before the mecha breaks or at the same time, at best. It won't get to use the auto-eject.
Promoting a mecha build that doesn't rely on self-healing? Crazy, I know. Whoever heard of mechas that can't reconstruct themselves on the fly? It's almost as several of them are supposed to be inorganic machines. :rolleyesYour reasoning was that you didn't want to encourage mooks healing the android to save the mecha. You just have to prevent heals on the android from affecting the mecha. Now you're still encouraging mooks to heal the android within so that it can keep up with the mecha's heals.
And if you want a self-healing android build that badly, that's what Machinery Warrior is there for.For now I'm interested in the android becoming one with the machine properly. I could have made a stronger build without the android race to start with but I liked the idea of One with the Machine for my concept and I have so much more stuff to work with now.
I was just looking at the super robot upgrades, and the "Supporting" upgrade kinda confuses me. who exactly does it provide the bonus to? its pilot? an adjacent allied mech?Pilot on all cases, clarified.
(also, the "Sentient" upgrade and "Supporting" both reference the super robot's own level. Is that the pilot's level?)
Good point on critical hits, added clause for that.QuoteBut if you are not making such a build , it's a net gain while the mecha lasts, in particular when you take in account the mecha auto-ejects the pilot when it reaches 0 HP.That wouldn't work well. The android would normally die before the mecha breaks or at the same time, at best. It won't get to use the auto-eject.
Not using OwtM gives your own HP + the HP of the mecha before you die, since when the mecha is down you're ejected. An android with OwtM has only his own HP and doesn't get a free escape with the auto-eject if there's an attack that would kill it.
You get a mecha that has a more HP than the norm (if the android invests big in his own HP score, which he has no choice to do if he doesn't want to have one less ability) but you die faster in it.
Even without heals a critical hit on a mecha inflicts more damage to the android than it would normally receive.
If somehow the mecha is destroyed and the android inside is still alive, it would be in a much worse shape than another pilot.
Ship Veteran Mechanics, or the default one hour per 10% of HP repair.QuotePromoting a mecha build that doesn't rely on self-healing? Crazy, I know. Whoever heard of mechas that can't reconstruct themselves on the fly? It's almost as several of them are supposed to be inorganic machines. :rolleyesYour reasoning was that you didn't want to encourage mooks healing the android to save the mecha. You just have to prevent heals on the android from affecting the mecha. Now you're still encouraging mooks to heal the android within so that it can keep up with the mecha's heals.
A PC that doesn't have any way to heal his mecha, himself or by an ally, is highly unlikely (they'll likely get at least 1 spirit to heal). Mostly considering that without healing a mecha will have a hard time being used through multiple encounters until it gets back home for long repairs.
In-combat healing is also rather common in DnD all around, if only from a dedicated healer. With this campaign setting giving tons of means to dish out big numbers for damage, this is no less the case. Sure, an android could use Guts while not in OwtM, but then if it has Guts why even bother with OwtM.Depends on who you ask. A lot of the so-called CO community preaches the exact opposite, that in-combat healing is a waste of time because you could be killing stuff instead. If you do everything well you won't even need to heal in the first place, and once the enemies are defeated you can heal at your leisure. Heck, my second D&D group that was as noob as they come and still had a rule of "only stop to heal for stablizing bleeding allies, and even then if they're about to die". And very few people like playing the healbot.
Otherwise, it could also return to the mecha using the android's HP like it did before and the mecha being destroyed if the android dies, then add the effect that the android piloting the mecha is targeted as if it was the mecha itself and so can no longer be affected by effects that wouldn't affect the mecha, which would prevent any extra method of healing and buffs from within the cockpit that isn't available to any other mecha (and prevent most buffers in the cockpit from affecting the pilot to buff the mecha). It also wouldn't benefit from regeneration twice off Machinery Warrior since multiple regeneration effects already do not stack and wouldn't be applied to two different targets to combine the effect.It never worked like that. If anything the wording wasn't clear enough, silly me that by writing that failed to predict that writing that damage to the mecha applies to the android can actually mean that everything under the stars applied to the mecha would also apply to the android.
Indeed, you could've played a kobold and went pun-pun.QuoteAnd if you want a self-healing android build that badly, that's what Machinery Warrior is there for.For now I'm interested in the android becoming one with the machine properly. I could have made a stronger build without the android race to start with
but I liked the idea of One with the Machine for my concept and I have so much more stuff to work with now.Machinery Warrior starts at level 11. Bit late for the android to start trying to keep up with an healed mecha so that's out of the question in campaigns in the lower levels. I'll probably level dip in it all the same, but not for the regeneration, which'll be redundant in my build anyway.Suit yourself, just let me make a note to start keeping careful track of your character's HP in case there are any more misunderstandings.
Born to Fight feat-Fixed.
The arsenal surge for Mega Booster and TROMBE! do not have a duration.
Innovade feat
Is there supposed to be a limit to how many mechas can be piloted by this? You can fit quite a few in 20 feet plus 5 feet per Pilot level and even more if you use the Einst Queen Infiltrator trick to turn that range to mecha scale.
Also, if a mecha/machine becomes unattended within range of two Innovades, which one controls it? An opposed charisma check, perhaps?
Oddly, the benefit feels like something machines should be good at too, despite it being normally a 'human' thing. Androids are bad at it though since they can't use charisma well.
Showtime Star
Pretty cool. One More Time only covers the cost of the weapon, right? Not the maneuver that triggers it. At least that's what seems to be intended the way it is presented. Very powerful and maybe not too much so as long as it happens to only one attack and not all of them, if a maneuver offers a bunch of shots.
A lot of the so-called CO community preaches the exact opposite, that in-combat healing is a waste of time because you could be killing stuff instead.That's not as relevant in a system that doesn't consume actions to heal.
And very few people like playing the healbot.Ah? Being the healer is fun. Mechas don't need a dedicated healer much, though, at least until the heal options are revamped as well. Pilots are another matter though.
Although it's fine to don't use all your multiple racial abilities if you don't want to.Sure, or get a group of mook healers to make it viable. Anyway, all that to say that looking at OwtM I see it as rather awful. If you think it isn't actually a sub-par alternative to normal piloting, then that's fine.
"I could've made a more OP character" isn't much of a valid argument in D&D.Wasn't an argument. Just saying that for the concept it seemed cool. Now it seems less like becoming one with the mecha and more like the mecha is using the pilot like some kind of shield. The argument was that if you you're stating that Machine Warrior is there to make One with the Machine work for an android to make the healing options sort of viable again with OwtM, the prestige class is available too late to be an option at the earlier levels.
-If you're already piloting a mecha, then you can't pilot another even if it's unattended just as if you were inside the mecha you're already piloting. If the mecha is being controlled by another Innovade, then it doesn't count as unattended. Also Innovades were originally meat bags machine slaves organic terminals for a super computer, so lack of android synergy is intended.I'm asking what happens to a mecha/machine that suddenly becomes unattended within the range of two/more of those guys. Who gets to control it? If it is treated as being in their possession, it is no longer unattended... but who gets to have it "in his possession" first?
Is it intentional that Gate to Nowhere, Showtime Star, Cyber Newtype, Innovade, and Coordinator aren't [Pilot] Feats? The former two especially, as they require Pilot LevelsUps, fixed. I specifically thought about the Funnels unblocking part but then I forgot to actually write it down.
Also, it feels weird to me that Cyber Newtype doesn't let you use funnels, what with that being pretty much the whole point of cyber newtypes (not entirely, but you get what I mean)
For Born to Fight (specifically, Over the Top), does the base AC of some pure metal armour get added to the mecha's AC? And does armour proficiency factor into it in any degree?Yes you get the AC, and yes, you need the respective armor proficiency to benefit from specific pure metal properties.
Question, and something that only occurred to me to check a few minutes ago.
Mechs and space are quite commonly paired, but I am finding nothing in this material involving low light vision, dark vision, blind sight sensors, or anything really. Not even headlamps
No accessories or upgrades, and the only feat that makes any mention of them is the Funnel Control System in that "Your funnels benefits from any special visions and senses you have, and you can "see/sense" from their position as well."
Is this intentional or just something overlooked? Because it seems to me if your race doesn't have an ability for it, you are going to have a really bad time trying to fight in the darkness of space or even at night.
But it does consume resources that could be used to kill your enemy faster. Spirits being spent on healing are spirits not spent on Strike/Valor/Zeal/etc.QuoteA lot of the so-called CO community preaches the exact opposite, that in-combat healing is a waste of time because you could be killing stuff instead.That's not as relevant in a system that doesn't consume actions to heal.
Quote"I could've made a more OP character" isn't much of a valid argument in D&D.Wasn't an argument. Just saying that for the concept it seemed cool. Now it seems less like becoming one with the mecha and more like the mecha is using the pilot like some kind of shield. The argument was that if you you're stating that Machine Warrior is there to make One with the Machine work for an android to make the healing options sort of viable again with OwtM, the prestige class is available too late to be an option at the earlier levels.
There's a reason why most mecha are piloted by meat bags. Something brain waves.Quote-If you're already piloting a mecha, then you can't pilot another even if it's unattended just as if you were inside the mecha you're already piloting. If the mecha is being controlled by another Innovade, then it doesn't count as unattended. Also Innovades were originally meat bags machine slaves organic terminals for a super computer, so lack of android synergy is intended.I'm asking what happens to a mecha/machine that suddenly becomes unattended within the range of two/more of those guys. Who gets to control it? If it is treated as being in their possession, it is no longer unattended... but who gets to have it "in his possession" first?
Lack of android synergy is intended though I'm just pointing out that the idea of proxy machine control fits androids well (although the setting that it takes it from is for organics... in practice it seems machines would normally have an even easier time controlling other machines). Anyway.
ArsenalGood catch.
Targeting Simulator (IV) should probably have a -3 penalty to Will saves.
Booster (I) similarly doesn't have a penalty like the other movement increase accessories.None of the level I acessories have.
With accessories making maneuvers and spirit usage more efficient, maybe there should also be an accessory to make the energy consumption of movement more efficient as well. Like a better engine.It's called a ship.
The way you thought One with the Machine works is borked at low-mid levels.No, he's saying it's borked at all levels.
Added a bunch of new arsenal options, plus three new Super Robot upgrades, Undetectable, Ancient Sensor and Electronic Nose.
Added a bunch of new arsenal options, plus three new Super Robot upgrades, Undetectable, Ancient Sensor and Electronic Nose.
The new arsenal options are kind of cool, but they also make Darkness being on the Arcane Pilot spell list kinda pointless. It doesn't do anything with how trivially easy it is to get darkvision now. I'm not suggesting remove darkvision, but maybe add some kind of upgrade Arcane Pilots can take as a super upgrade, perhaps, to let them bypass that?
And Anomander, you seem to have a typo in the formulas for mecha engineer EN
Darkvision doesn't allow you to see through magical darkness. From the darkness spell "Even creatures that can normally see in such conditions (such as with darkvision or low-light vision) have the miss chance in an area shrouded in magical darkness."
The new arsenal options are kind of cool, but they also make Darkness being on the Arcane Pilot spell list kinda pointless.Most of the Arcane Pilot's Spells are pretty pointless. It's Evocation is out scaled by Arsenal, in general it's out performed by Splat of lower levels and almighty-tera-giga-mega-extraspecially when it comes to buffs, it goes almost no CC effects, no Divinations, no mooks, no movement, no town building/support, etc. Heck Ols complained last month over lack of Counters being used, Real/Super get five Counters, excluding applicable Boosts/Stances, and "That won't work twice!" & "Unbreakable Will" are extremely potent defensive abilities but the Arcane Pilot doesn't even get Wings of Cover which is still limited to 1/rnd vs Danger Zone's 1st level Parry's ability to block every attack if you have a high enough Attack Bonus, so it has literally nothing to counter outside of Spirits which apparently require prepared usage on the turn before actually knowing you needed them. :-\
but with Undectable, what happens if the detect range is effectively 0 mu? Are you invisible to their sensors outside of actual line of sight vision?Pretty much sounds like it but you need more than upgrades.
Longo Alcance Radar (II): You gain Spacesense 120 mu plus you can see through fogs as well as obstacles not made of metal as long as they're less than 5 feet thick and within 120 mu, but you take a -1 penalty on Will saves. This takes only 9 arsenal space.Maybe flip flop them?
Raios X Radar Avançado(III): You can see through fogs, as well as obstacles not made of metal as long as they're less than 5 feet thick and within 120 mu but take a -1 penalty to all saves. This takes only 9 arsenal space.
I'm pretty happy with most the system, but I have a serious problem with the Accessory nerfs. As they now stand, accessories cost 25 arsenal, but grant both a buff and a nerf. Arsenal is a pool of what is supposed to be points making you stronger, but post nerf, you spend your upgrade pool on specializing and altering your mech in a way that could just as easily be handled in the manner of giving Real Pilots their Arsenal tier worth of slots to mess around with their mech.
Speaking of slots, I'd like to propose an alternate way to handle accessories that would hopefully allow you to return them to their proper power level without any issues with them being unbalanced. What I propose is to switch accessories to a hardpoint/slot system (much like in the games), and to remove the nerfs on them. Additional Parts slots would be purchased with Arsenal, or with Upgrade on Supers, with additional slots costing more to naturally limit the max number of parts slots -- for example, 25 Arsenal for the first slot, as per the existing system, but then 50 for the next slot, 75 for the next slot, and so on, with each additional part slot costing 25 more than the last in this example. This is already well modeled with Hyperdimensional Storage for Supers, which could just be directly converted over to buying parts slots, since that's both the best thing to do with that upgrade and the reason why it was a mandatory pre-nerf set of upgrades on most super robot builds.
The existing accessory nerf hits Supers hard, as it greatly decreases the value of Extradimensional Storage. For Supers wanting special weapons like armor breakers, there should still be a way to get Arsenal. Maybe provide 10 Arsenal for free and force multi-classing for more. Maybe still let it be bought with Upgrade. The above numbers are suggested due to their match with current values from Upgrade, but could well be different. They're primarily provided as examples to illustrate the point. This would also provide an extra advantage towards taking Reals with built-in free accessories.
I believe that the biggest balance problem here is that it's trivial and used to be highly rewarding to grab tons of accessories as a Real, as your inbuilt weapons generally provided most or all of the combat options you needed, and Arsenal weapons cost very little Arsenal -- a heavy weapon like the Burst Railgun is only 10 Arsenal. Contrast with the games, where it's 40 W-Gauge in OG1, and 30 in OG2. By the current system, this is necessary to make Arsenal normal weapons at all desirable, as they must directly compete with accessories; unless you had less than 25 Arsenal left, by the pre-nerf system your best move was always taking another Accessory.
If you want to use Arsenal for accessories, there's a few good solutions that immediately occur to me. You can nerf them, which you did and I dislikebecause it makes them stop being special. You can increase the cost of normal Arsenal weapons, so characters have things other than Accessories to spend their Arsenal on, except likely that just means players will ignore arsenal weapons almost entirely, which I assume goes against your design intent here. Of course, not using Arsenal for accessories at all and giving each Real on the list a Part slot count would also work, much like in the games, but by the way this hasn’t been done, I am guessing that for some reason you consider this undesirable to the design.
The change of accessory from individually purchased to buying slots works poorly with the accessories with nonstandard costs, of which I think there are four categories: Refined Armament, Cartridge, sense-granting parts of cost 9, and such parts of cost 19. Solutions are varied for each. For Refined Armament, either move it to a different category to still be bought at 5 Arsenal, or make a single part slot filled with it apply its bonus to up to five weapons (or, since most units don't have more than five weapons anyway, just simplify things by making the one accessory apply to all weapons). Cartridge would be handled similarly: keep it Arsenal cost 2 instead of being an accessory, give pilots twelve of them to a slot, or buff them to the power seen in the games. For sensors, again possibly make them not take accessory slots, or allow three cost-9 sensors to a slot, or a cost-19 and a cost-9. By the current Arsenal numbers, those all should be of equivalent value.
Another possible solution to the nonstandard cost issue is to do percentage-based or static increases in Arsenal cost for each additional accessory: the first is the listed cost, the second costs 5% more than the normal cost for the accessory or 2 arsenal more, the third costs 10% more than base cost for the accessory or 5 arsenal more, and so on.
As a side effect of this change, normal Arsenal weapon costs could be increased to price most of them out of range of Supers, which is good -- Supers aren't supposed to be using mook weapons, especially not awesome ones like the Shishioh Blade or the Graviton Cannon. If you disagree with this and consider that a desirable outcome the system, it can still be allowed under this system by allowing Parts Slots to be traded in for 25 Arsenal each, thus making powerful normal Arsenal weapons still obtainable for Supers, but requiring the trade-in of multiple Parts slots, thus only being worth doing on highly specific builds (like ranged super).
Thank you for considering all this. Good game design is important to me, and I think this mod is a great base overall. I'm happy to be a player in this setting, there just still a few things to work on in my opinion. For things where you disagree with me, I'd really appreciate hearing your design intent, and your reason for doing things differently. I'm currently working off the assumption that your goal is basically 'like Super Robot Wars, but d20 and with all the benefits of the SRD behind it'.
Oslecamo, I'm running a game with this system, and one of my players (who doesn't have an account) wanted to make some requests about the system. Here is his point:I was about to post a reply to previous comments when I saw this. Your player raises several good points but right now I don't have the time to properly write a reply, in particular because several of his suggestions sound like they're worth working on and I want to properly consider them. Hopefully I'll be able to give a more detailed answer later today or tommorrow.Quote from: SifluxLots of things to think about.
Also, the combining robot system in Mecha Mook doesn't seem to have been updated for the EN overhaulI'll see to updating it soon too, thanks for the catch!
Ancient Sensor is great, love the multiple options to mix it up and not make it an always pick (except maybe for Moon Vanguard, that sense organic creatures mech size or bigger is some great synergy)Correct.
Electronic Nose and Undetectable are also options that have me in giggles. Scent in space and sensor baffling for sneaking up on people with blindsense.
but with Undectable, what happens if the detect range is effectively 0 mu? Are you invisible to their sensors outside of actual line of sight vision?
Eeerr, Arcane Pilot has plenty of Divinations, from the humble Detect Magic to Locate Object to Clairaudience/Clairvoyance to Locate Creature to True Seeing, several more all the way to Foresight.The new arsenal options are kind of cool, but they also make Darkness being on the Arcane Pilot spell list kinda pointless.Most of the Arcane Pilot's Spells are pretty pointless. It's Evocation is out scaled by Arsenal, in general it's out performed by Splat of lower levels and almighty-tera-giga-mega-extraspecially when it comes to buffs, it goes almost no CC effects, no Divinations, no mooks, no movement, no town building/support, etc.
Heck Ols complained last month over lack of Counters being used, Real/Super get five Counters, excluding applicable Boosts/Stances, and "That won't work twice!" & "Unbreakable Will" are extremely potent defensive abilities but the Arcane Pilot doesn't even get Wings of Cover which is still limited to 1/rnd vs Danger Zone's 1st level Parry's ability to block every attack if you have a high enough Attack Bonus, so it has literally nothing to counter outside of Spirits which apparently require prepared usage on the turn before actually knowing you needed them. :-\Defend/Evade pilot feats. Even the Arcane Pilot gets some of those bonus.
It puts an overwhelming amount of pressure on it's Extra Known slots but it only gets one of each level (two of the 1st) forcing you to take the most broken Spells you can find in order to compensate for your lack of choice and poor list. Like if you want to actually use CharOp's recognized blasting Spells like Combust, Dalamar's Lightning Lance, Wings of Flurry, Lord of the Sky, or w/e else then you gave up the chance to grab stuff like Haste, Spider Skin, Heart of Water, Scry, Superior Resistance, Teleport, etc. So maybe you just figure Planar Binding and picking creatures capable of providing both is the only way to go.Why yes, the intention is for Arcane Pilots to specialize in a certain type of magic instead of every mage character knowing all of the uber spell ever without real effort. And any of the spells you mentioned are enough on their own to make the Arcane Pilot a MVP for the party.
Buffed up Yksvoknym Particles Generator to 1/6 range.but with Undectable, what happens if the detect range is effectively 0 mu? Are you invisible to their sensors outside of actual line of sight vision?Pretty much sounds like it but you need more than upgrades.
2For example, at level 4 the would be seeing only needs to invest in 9 Arsenal points for 120mu special vision. You need to invest 19 Arsenal points in the Yksvoknym Particles Generator and 2 Upgrade points into Undetectable to counter it. Electronic Disruptor's 1/12th should keep you from having to invest more Upgrade points into Undetectable but stealth just got a lot harder without just picking up Darkstalker.
Ups, Raiox X Radar Avançado should have 240 mu range, fixed.QuoteLongo Alcance Radar (II): You gain Spacesense 120 mu plus you can see through fogs as well as obstacles not made of metal as long as they're less than 5 feet thick and within 120 mu, but you take a -1 penalty on Will saves. This takes only 9 arsenal space.Maybe flip flop them?
Raios X Radar Avançado(III): You can see through fogs, as well as obstacles not made of metal as long as they're less than 5 feet thick and within 120 mu but take a -1 penalty to all saves. This takes only 9 arsenal space.
Hopefully I'll be able to give a more detailed answer later today or tommorrow.Really, the tl;dr is everything form weapon damage to cost should have had a balancing formula to it. Like cost specific, if you did say 1pt ammo, 2pts sensors, 4pts basic equipment, 6pts refined, you could balance all your costs. Later in post, you can inflated it to a 50~300 point system since the numbers them selves are arbitrary. But if you decided something should cost 225pts it should equal to something like a [basic (4 or 200pts) + 1/2 ammo (0.5 or 25pts)] and if it's not then you know it's cost needs a different value.
Eeerr, Arcane Pilot has plenty of Divinations, from the humble Detect Magic to Locate Object to Clairaudience/Clairvoyance to Locate Creature to True Seeing, several more all the way to Foresight.The core problem is you started at the SRD list and then started cutting Spells out which ended up leaving a theme of patchwork (no scry until lv14?). Like you have Alarm sure, and all the other upgrades for personally sleeping safely at night but you can't Fabricate a series of walls to protect more than a half dozen people or Move Earth some trenches in for warfare. What you have is a mech sized magical plate that can hold dirt the caster's mech sized bare hands have to pick up using his mech sized shovel that deals minimal damage to dirt. :P
Why yes, the intention is for Arcane Pilots to specialize in a certain type of magic instead of every mage character knowing all of the uber spell ever without real effort. And any of the spells you mentioned are enough on their own to make the Arcane Pilot a MVP for the party.>.>
Then as you're doing in the game you can get extra spells through a variety of items.Yeah but Phantasm Star is a high powered game, some List snatching is expected, and Super Robot Wars the Campaign setting is not forced Gestated & high powered. :p
And Anomander, you seem to have a typo in the formulas for mecha engineer ENGood catch. Should be correct now.
Also, Anomander, the Engineer's Maintenance breakthrough. Is it intended that there is no limit to the amount of HP you can repair in one action aside from EN available?Indeed though it doesn't work as well as it did now that there is so much energy to go around at the early levels. I increased the cost of the repairs to 6 EN per HP, scaling down to 1 EN per HP again at class level 10. It'll be more costy at the mid-late levels than it was before considering the lower energy caps so I'll perhaps make an higher tier maintenance breakthrough to make the first XperY hp restored free to make minor heals only cost the action and make strong heals as expensive as it was in the lower levels. Increased the status effect removal a bit as well.
Did Super Robots always have a base Arsenal space before accounting for Hyperdimensional Storage?That appears to have just been added. Oslecamo seems to be going through and switching over to hardpoints
Also I just noticed Super Robots have a base Arsenal Space so after I update my character I could still have Arsenal options......this is going to be such a pain going through everything like this to make sure I'm not missing anything niche -_-'
Well yeah, the Hardpoints thing is new. I meant before that too. I always thought Supers had 0 arsenal even before these updates.
I'm pretty happy with most the system, but I have a serious problem with the Accessory nerfs. As they now stand, accessories cost 25 arsenal, but grant both a buff and a nerf. Arsenal is a pool of what is supposed to be points making you stronger, but post nerf, you spend your upgrade pool on specializing and altering your mech in a way that could just as easily be handled in the manner of giving Real Pilots their Arsenal tier worth of slots to mess around with their mech.You know, I can't really remember why I didn't just do that from the start. And it allows for pretty much what I want, that you'll pick a bunch of acessories and weapons.
Speaking of slots, I'd like to propose an alternate way to handle accessories that would hopefully allow you to return them to their proper power level without any issues with them being unbalanced. What I propose is to switch accessories to a hardpoint/slot system (much like in the games), and to remove the nerfs on them. Additional Parts slots would be purchased with Arsenal, or with Upgrade on Supers, with additional slots costing more to naturally limit the max number of parts slots -- for example, 25 Arsenal for the first slot, as per the existing system, but then 50 for the next slot, 75 for the next slot, and so on, with each additional part slot costing 25 more than the last in this example. This is already well modeled with Hyperdimensional Storage for Supers, which could just be directly converted over to buying parts slots, since that's both the best thing to do with that upgrade and the reason why it was a mandatory pre-nerf set of upgrades on most super robot builds.
The existing accessory nerf hits Supers hard, as it greatly decreases the value of Extradimensional Storage. For Supers wanting special weapons like armor breakers, there should still be a way to get Arsenal. Maybe provide 10 Arsenal for free and force multi-classing for more. Maybe still let it be bought with Upgrade. The above numbers are suggested due to their match with current values from Upgrade, but could well be different. They're primarily provided as examples to illustrate the point. This would also provide an extra advantage towards taking Reals with built-in free accessories.
I believe that the biggest balance problem here is that it's trivial and used to be highly rewarding to grab tons of accessories as a Real, as your inbuilt weapons generally provided most or all of the combat options you needed, and Arsenal weapons cost very little Arsenal -- a heavy weapon like the Burst Railgun is only 10 Arsenal. Contrast with the games, where it's 40 W-Gauge in OG1, and 30 in OG2. By the current system, this is necessary to make Arsenal normal weapons at all desirable, as they must directly compete with accessories; unless you had less than 25 Arsenal left, by the pre-nerf system your best move was always taking another Accessory.
If you want to use Arsenal for accessories, there's a few good solutions that immediately occur to me. You can nerf them, which you did and I dislikebecause it makes them stop being special. You can increase the cost of normal Arsenal weapons, so characters have things other than Accessories to spend their Arsenal on, except likely that just means players will ignore arsenal weapons almost entirely, which I assume goes against your design intent here. Of course, not using Arsenal for accessories at all and giving each Real on the list a Part slot count would also work, much like in the games, but by the way this hasn’t been done, I am guessing that for some reason you consider this undesirable to the design.
The change of accessory from individually purchased to buying slots works poorly with the accessories with nonstandard costs, of which I think there are four categories: Refined Armament, Cartridge, sense-granting parts of cost 9, and such parts of cost 19. Solutions are varied for each. For Refined Armament, either move it to a different category to still be bought at 5 Arsenal, or make a single part slot filled with it apply its bonus to up to five weapons (or, since most units don't have more than five weapons anyway, just simplify things by making the one accessory apply to all weapons). Cartridge would be handled similarly: keep it Arsenal cost 2 instead of being an accessory, give pilots twelve of them to a slot, or buff them to the power seen in the games. For sensors, again possibly make them not take accessory slots, or allow three cost-9 sensors to a slot, or a cost-19 and a cost-9. By the current Arsenal numbers, those all should be of equivalent value.-Made Refined Armament apply to all weapons and allowed it to be combined with one Radar option, which can be taken multiple times stacking
Another possible solution to the nonstandard cost issue is to do percentage-based or static increases in Arsenal cost for each additional accessory: the first is the listed cost, the second costs 5% more than the normal cost for the accessory or 2 arsenal more, the third costs 10% more than base cost for the accessory or 5 arsenal more, and so on.Well now Super Robots have 4 arsenal space that allows for some back-up firepower but none of the heavy hitters. If you want Dancounga-style, then that's for what Real/Super multiclass is for.
As a side effect of this change, normal Arsenal weapon costs could be increased to price most of them out of range of Supers, which is good -- Supers aren't supposed to be using mook weapons, especially not awesome ones like the Shishioh Blade or the Graviton Cannon. If you disagree with this and consider that a desirable outcome the system, it can still be allowed under this system by allowing Parts Slots to be traded in for 25 Arsenal each, thus making powerful normal Arsenal weapons still obtainable for Supers, but requiring the trade-in of multiple Parts slots, thus only being worth doing on highly specific builds (like ranged super).
Thank you for considering all this. Good game design is important to me, and I think this mod is a great base overall. I'm happy to be a player in this setting, there just still a few things to work on in my opinion. For things where you disagree with me, I'd really appreciate hearing your design intent, and your reason for doing things differently. I'm currently working off the assumption that your goal is basically 'like Super Robot Wars, but d20 and with all the benefits of the SRD behind it'.100% correct on figuring out my goal. Thanks a lot for that help! Your scaling costs ideas was interesting, but eventually I believe modules/hardpoints are both simpler and closer to the source.
Also, the combining robot system in Mecha Mook doesn't seem to have been updated for the EN overhaulCombining Robot updated.
Siflux reminded me correctly that in SRW games Arsenal weapons and acessories consume different separate resources, and all of the acessories have the same cost.Hopefully I'll be able to give a more detailed answer later today or tommorrow.Really, the tl;dr is everything form weapon damage to cost should have had a balancing formula to it. Like cost specific, if you did say 1pt ammo, 2pts sensors, 4pts basic equipment, 6pts refined, you could balance all your costs. Later in post, you can inflated it to a 50~300 point system since the numbers them selves are arbitrary. But if you decided something should cost 225pts it should equal to something like a [basic (4 or 200pts) + 1/2 ammo (0.5 or 25pts)] and if it's not then you know it's cost needs a different value.
Arcane/Divine have spells and no maneuvers. Supers/Reals/Captains have maneuvers and no spells. And I'm pretty sure there's a lot of Immediate Action spells out there to pick if you want to go that way.Eeerr, Arcane Pilot has plenty of Divinations, from the humble Detect Magic to Locate Object to Clairaudience/Clairvoyance to Locate Creature to True Seeing, several more all the way to Foresight.The core problem is you started at the SRD list and then started cutting Spells out which ended up leaving a theme of patchwork (no scry until lv14?). Like you have Alarm sure, and all the other upgrades for personally sleeping safely at night but you can't Fabricate a series of walls to protect more than a half dozen people or Move Earth some trenches in for warfare. What you have is a mech sized magical plate that can hold dirt the caster's mech sized bare hands have to pick up using his mech sized shovel that deals minimal damage to dirt. :P
Some of the cuts make sense for balance sake, but if you're looking to balance the List then it also needs to be balanced to what the other Classes can do. Like yeah maybe the Arcane Pilot gets the same bonus Feats Super/Real does, but so does the Real/Super and that's not going to change the fact the Real/Super have exclusive extras for attack countering. The Arcane (and divine) should also get their own alternatives too, specially if you feel players need it to begin with.
Eeerrr, you can change your Favored Spell at every Arcane Pilot level up. :psyduck.Why yes, the intention is for Arcane Pilots to specialize in a certain type of magic instead of every mage character knowing all of the uber spell ever without real effort. And any of the spells you mentioned are enough on their own to make the Arcane Pilot a MVP for the party.>.>
You have a funny way of wanting Arcane Pilots to specialize in a limited report of Spells. For one thing they can't choose a Spell that supports their specialty until a level after they gain the new Spell Level and "Favorite Spell" always shows up a level before you can choose your actual favorite Spell so you always "favor" spells you hate using.
True, although I highly recommend the Gestalt bit, in particular so that Reals/Super pilots have something to do besides smashing face.Then as you're doing in the game you can get extra spells through a variety of items.Yeah but Phantasm Star is a high powered game, some List snatching is expected, and Super Robot Wars the Campaign setting is not forced Gestated & high powered. :p
That being said you can set aside the differences in expected scale and look at the heart of it. Because I had to invest I wanted to increase the return, one thing led to another and in cause and effect Bahamut really doesn't have anything you'd call a cool item, since he's just a dragon on fire that spent most of his wealth trying to obtain Spells Arcane Pilot doesn't have.Hadn't you said you didn't even spent most of Baha's money? :P
And that's ok in the build. The RPs been fun, next level I'm a lot less constrained with my buffs with got me to pick some more interesting ones which are still pretty new to me. But Bahamut & Phantasy Star aside, Arcane Pilot has some problems. Even the Warmage, Beguiler, and Dread Necromancer gets Splat Spells. If you want the Arcane Pilot to really narrow in on some favorites, less choice isn't the solution but more. Like you could cut the default list some more so it's purely basic role fulfilling then triple the open space giving them at least three Spells of every level to pick.Not sure if you mean spell level or Arcane Pilot but three spells per either is a nope.jpg. The super/real get only 20/19 maneuvers and some stances from a much more limited list and that's it.
When people are limited they always grab what can give them the most. Like in another lovely SorO analogy. If you're poor you walk into Walk-Mart and throw a bunch of Hamburger in the cart because you can cook that in all kinds of ways and Hamburger Helper literately sells pasta ideas you can create after visiting the baking & spice section. But if you have the money to spend, you might instead walk in and think I want Tacos and BBQ New York strips which just doesn't have Hamburger in every option the guy with more restrictive limits has. You don't have to pick Polymorph's ominous solutions if you can pick up a number of unique Transmutations you like. You don't have to pick up Orb of Acid if you have the spare room to pick up different elemental Spells or even more than one area one Spell. Etc.
You'll always have a narrow section of people that will try to abuse the system much like the rich guy that refuses to pay his taxes, but choice breeds the ability to select things that do not amount to the best swiss army knife.
True, although I highly recommend the Gestalt bit, in particular so that Reals/Super pilots have something to do besides smashing face.
Arcane/Divine have spells and no maneuvers. Supers/Reals/Captains have maneuvers and no spells. And I'm pretty sure there's a lot of Immediate Action spells out there to pick if you want to go that way.Probably, but the point is nothing on the Arcane Pilot's List does. Having to spend your only 2nd level Slot choice on picking up something you really should have anyway and Super/Reals got two levels ago sucks, for Spells and Maneuvers to be comparable they have to be well, comparable.
Eeerrr, you can change your Favored Spell at every Arcane Pilot level up. :psyduck.It's even in it's own paragraph and I still missed it :banghead
Actually been working bit by bit on creating a sample world based on our campaign so far, in particular how Parum developed and descended into total war, the different factions competing and how the Android Administration rose to power, while new technologies were researched and some planets of the system blowing up, but hard work is hard.Cool, need some help with the dragon side? I pretty much wrote the entire history of the Helsing family in my head, parts of it spun from your lore and the rest of it is pretty much how I do everything else. Like discovering of the Staff of Tongues for human transmutation, which excuses how your Monster Classes bypass biology btw, to how spells such as Teleport gave them a massive start in space exploration.
Hadn't you said you didn't even spent most of Baha's money? :PIt's like 14k and someone never told me how much that axe is worth anyway so until he does I'm just going to treat it as 0. So while I technically never spent all of Bahamut's money, I also am probably technically four thousand in the hole since a +3 is at least 18k :p
Anyway a bunch of knowledge boosters is still cooler than generic number boosters.
Not sure if you mean spell level or Arcane Pilot but three spells per either is a nope.jpg. The super/real get only 20/19 maneuvers and some stances from a much more limited list and that's it.Already anticipated that comment and I already suggested cutting the "default" list down some more so you'd end up with either the same number of Spells or less, but the Player would have ones they like. :)
Then I guess I get to pat myself on the back for things turning out better than expected! :PTrue, although I highly recommend the Gestalt bit, in particular so that Reals/Super pilots have something to do besides smashing face.
I dunno, my campaign is running without Gestalt, and everyone seems to be really enjoying it.
One thing that my players and I noticed about Combining Team is that it only allows for five person teams, and forces the combination to be the same every time. I feel this is a disservice to Getter Robo and Aquarion and the like (and even the SRX, to an extent). To this end, we’ve got some changes to suggest for Combining Team allowing both the Golion style combiners the feat currently allows and other styles of combiners as well, from the two pilot Godannar and the three pilot Getters, to the massive 15-ish pilot Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann.
The feat would function mostly in the same manner, but could be taken by any pilot class, not just mecha mooks, so long as all intended pilots were taking it at the same time.
In addition, each member of the combiner team would choose their own set of upgrade points rather than having one specific set chosen for the combiner no matter what. The number of upgrade points available would be equal to the combined team size. These upgrades would be the extra ones in use when that pilot is the lead pilot. This would allow for things like Getter or Aquarion with different capabilities depending on which pilot is currently in charge. As an example, the current mecha mook team has five pilots, so they get five upgrade points as a bonus while combined. A three person combiner like Getter Robo would have three upgrade points as a bonus while combined. A 15 person combiner like Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann would have 15 upgrade points as a bonus while combined. In all three cases, the lead pilot would choose which upgrades those points would be spent on, but each pilot could have a different selection, making pilot swapping relevant.
If taken by a team of non mook characters, each member of the team would get +2 HP/level for their mecha. The combined robot would have the average base HP of the components, plus the combined bonus HP that the team got (so it would have the average base HP of the components, +2*number of pilots/level). The level used would be the average of super pilot levels in the team, which would also determine upgrade access to the combined team. These upgrades would still be split evenly among the team members. As an example, the current mecha mook team will always have the same super pilot levels among the pilots, so it will use that super pilot level for bonus HP and super upgrades. A three person combiner like Getter Robo with two pilots at super pilot level 4 and one at super pilot level 7 would have an average super pilot level of 5, so would use that for bonus HP and super upgrades. A fifteen pilot combiner like Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann with 5 level 1 super pilots, 9 level 3 super pilots, and a level 15 super pilot would have an average super pilot level of 3, and so would use that level for bonus HP and super upgrades.
As an additional change, it was felt that the prevention of taking Relationship feats by members of a combiner team is a little bit silly, so that restriction would be removed, though of course they would not function while the team is combined. This would allow team members to have relationship bonuses with each other while not combined, but wouldn’t give the combined team an undue advantage by having relationship bonuses that can’t be attacked.
Well not necessarily, otherwise they wouldn't have the same name to start with.Arcane/Divine have spells and no maneuvers. Supers/Reals/Captains have maneuvers and no spells. And I'm pretty sure there's a lot of Immediate Action spells out there to pick if you want to go that way.Probably, but the point is nothing on the Arcane Pilot's List does. Having to spend your only 2nd level Slot choice on picking up something you really should have anyway and Super/Reals got two levels ago sucks, for Spells and Maneuvers to be comparable they have to be well, comparable.
And when it comes to spending money to fix things, you realize Real/Supers can buy Spell access to right?You can also buy maneuver items. Anomander loves doing it.
Yeah, I must say I got quite interested in your backstory of dragon nobles in SPACE! and would definetely want to make them a distinctive part of the setting. In my drafts past history there's a member of the Helsing family that would've fallen on disgrace (and thus erased from the family's records to don't interfere with your backstory) that ended up in Parum and built her own faction that ended playing a significant part on the war. Something ends weaponing a nearby planet to drop it on Parum but another faction leader sacrifices themselves for mutual destruction, saving Parum yet also leaving the way clear for the Android armies to take over.Actually been working bit by bit on creating a sample world based on our campaign so far, in particular how Parum developed and descended into total war, the different factions competing and how the Android Administration rose to power, while new technologies were researched and some planets of the system blowing up, but hard work is hard.Cool, need some help with the dragon side? I pretty much wrote the entire history of the Helsing family in my head, parts of it spun from your lore and the rest of it is pretty much how I do everything else. Like discovering of the Staff of Tongues for human transmutation, which excuses how your Monster Classes bypass biology btw, to how spells such as Teleport gave them a massive start in space exploration.
Not sure if you mean spell level or Arcane Pilot but three spells per either is a nope.jpg. The super/real get only 20/19 maneuvers and some stances from a much more limited list and that's it.Already anticipated that comment and I already suggested cutting the "default" list down some more so you'd end up with either the same number of Spells or less, but the Player would have ones they like. :)
Writing your own Spells may be the way you want to go but you already have a ton of stuff on your plate to alter, tweak, and balance before trying to introduce a bunch of Spells with no sight of where the lines are. Use what you have now and get it working first, and if it's in balance with D&D rather than it's own tune, you won't even have to rewrite Spells (just ban a few key ones).
Hmmm, yes, Combining mecha is somewhat drafty and limited at the moment. So, let's say, something like this:(click to show/hide)
You'll notice that I left out the "+2HP per level and team members gain extra upgrades while separated". That's because those were meant for mecha mooks that have crappy machines. But if the members are actual real/super robots, then they don't need the extra stats while separated. Otherwise, this would be a must-take even if you never plan on combining, gets you some extra HP and multiple Upgrades for just one feat.
Combining Team would remain its own separate feat for both Mecha Mooks and representing the 5-team combining robots that have a single form like Voltes/Combatler V.
It counts as having the average Pilot Size of its members for determining what those "temporary" upgrades can be.
You can also buy maneuver items. Anomander loves doing it.Yeah but technically speaking you cannot use UMD to meet a Maneuver's requirements. So for example, you need to step into the gray area, that some DMS will required permission to even do, of merging two Crowns of the White Raven together if you wanted to learn Iron Heart Surge. Your Maneuvers probably unintentionally (and his probably intentionally) left out those requirements so they didn't have to.
That would be a lot of bans.Oh it's not that bad. Your homebrew already ignores immunities while offering up new immunities, it pretends Ploymorph doesn't exist, deals like ten times the damage D&D's scale does, and you like handling out extra turns too. I'm sure most of what you think you need to ban I could probably find a Class Feature that does the same thing but better. :P
Hmmm, yes, Combining mecha is somewhat drafty and limited at the moment. So, let's say, something like this:(click to show/hide)
You'll notice that I left out the "+2HP per level and team members gain extra upgrades while separated". That's because those were meant for mecha mooks that have crappy machines. But if the members are actual real/super robots, then they don't need the extra stats while separated. Otherwise, this would be a must-take even if you never plan on combining, gets you some extra HP and multiple Upgrades for just one feat.
Combining Team would remain its own separate feat for both Mecha Mooks and representing the 5-team combining robots that have a single form like Voltes/Combatler V.
That looks great, though I did spot a few typos (it says Pilot Size where I'm fairly sure it should say Pilot Level, for determining the upgrades available)
Oh, also, Humungous Ship feat says it gives the battleship 25 more arsenal. should that be another hardpoint?
Doesn't UMD allows you to simulate class features?You can also buy maneuver items. Anomander loves doing it.Yeah but technically speaking you cannot use UMD to meet a Maneuver's requirements. So for example, you need to step into the gray area, that some DMS will required permission to even do, of merging two Crowns of the White Raven together if you wanted to learn Iron Heart Surge.
Your Maneuvers probably unintentionally (and his probably intentionally) left out those requirements so they didn't have to.Now that you mention that, several of my schools do have anti-itemization clauses.
All of that lovely set up inviting exploitation of your homebrew in ways WotC intended to prevent there is still an unfair price adjustment. Like for 12,000 gold a Super Pilot can run around with Persisted Haste on every single round both in and out of combat, all day, for every day during the year. For 15,000gp an Arcane Pilot can use That won't work twice! once per Encounter.That's an extremely biased scenario.
Thing is, reals/supers get less than three Class features per level.That would be a lot of bans.Oh it's not that bad. Your homebrew already ignores immunities while offering up new immunities, it pretends Ploymorph doesn't exist, deals like ten times the damage D&D's scale does, and you like handling out extra turns too. I'm sure most of what you think you need to ban I could probably find a Class Feature that does the same thing but better. :P
Like for example since you fear buffs for some reason, in D&D the caster is commonly portrayed as being less armored than the mundane, for example Mage Armor only gives +4 to AC but Full-Plate is double that. In your system the caster's mech is still physically portrayed as weak with less AC, but also less DR, and he gets zero equipment, and the actual armor/shields grant additional bonuses like Damage Reduction, and the caster doesn't even get Mage Armor to compensate.Funny you pick that example, since Chokabam Armor is a whooping +1 Armor AC bonus. A Real Robot will only get Mage Armor level protection at Arsenal level IV with Ceramic Armor, aka at 10th character level. So yes, an Arcane Pilot who learns Mage Armor means a significant AC bonus for the whole party for half a campaign, and also allows the other pilots to spend their limited Hardpoints on other stuff. Sure, the Arsenal Armors grant some minor DR and Fort bonus, but the AC is still their main advantage.
In general your homebrew really isn't about fairly balancing the classes and avoiding caster surpremacy, but trying to make unfairly everything more powerful than vancian casting and some times that comes across a little odd. Like how many of your Classes grant an Ability Bonus to AC? All of them? But Mage Armor got cut, really?
Doesn't UMD allows you to simulate class features?Yes. The Maneuvers Class Feature, and through it per Caster's & Lists, which Disciplines are on your "Class List" if anything were to ask if you have access to White Raven should be included. Maneuvers Ready & Stances Known are also Class Features. But knowing any specific number of White Raven Maneuvers, not so much.
That's an extremely biased scenario.Oop, meant to use two lv3s. Ok, well just use the Trapsmith List so Haste is 1st level and that'll make it all better. :p
1-Haste is 3rd level, That Won't Work Twice is 4th.
Also for "damage scale", there's already things like uberchargers and split bows hasted archers. That you often bring up. Heck, a couple pages ago you kept complaing about mecha weapons dealing less damage as size-scaled normal D&D weapons! :pNo. That's not what I said and you know it. So not funny. Besides, after hating ranged you turned things into a flying fighter vs Terrasqua fight anyway so whatevs.
Stuff
The numbers on the Mob stuff don't seem to be where they should be, reasonably. Not part of the mecha rules, though.On the Spell banning we're not exactly talking about Super Robot Wars per se, more of Ols's concepts in general.
The numbers on the Mob stuff don't seem to be where they should be, reasonably. Not part of the mecha rules, though.On the Spell banning we're not exactly talking about Super Robot Wars per se, more of Ols's concepts in general.
And I know it's part of his Improved Monster Classes. The Darkweaver, Bebilith, Gray Linnorm, Animated Object (most likely what the mini mechs were), Roper, Tendriculos, Leng Spider, Shambling Mound, Wild Hunt, Ice Golem, Half-Golem, & the Greel (plus a few others) all go the extreme of Dimensional Anchor, nearly every single one of them negate Freedom of Movement, and reach Large or bigger Sizes. The ones that hit Huge auto-win their Grapple Checks vs Medium Creatures effectively making them inescapable unavoidable TPK attacks unless your Touch AC is pumped to unimaginable heights which is about the only way to deal with it in sort of applying more Ols's homebrew to the situation (like super's you can't touch me counters). And this is just one facet of Ols's love for totally raping people in a game, and some how he wants to preach Save-or-Dies are terrible because they at least offer a Save. >.>
His tweaks are not more balanced, just different and arguably less so.
So, Oslecamo, just noticed a typo in Born to Fight that changes the meaning. it says "You can also inflict nondamage effects (both ill or benefical) in a mecha even if you're on foot and smaller than them."I'm not a native english speaker. I'm afraid that type of detail goes beyond my grammar knowledge and so if you could explain the difference in this case I would be thankful.
It should probably say "You can also inflict nondamage effects (both ill or benefical) on a mecha even if you're on foot and smaller than them."
The numbers on the Mob stuff don't seem to be where they should be, reasonably. Not part of the mecha rules, though.On the Spell banning we're not exactly talking about Super Robot Wars per se, more of Ols's concepts in general.
And I know it's part of his Improved Monster Classes. The Darkweaver, Bebilith, Gray Linnorm, Animated Object (most likely what the mini mechs were), Roper, Tendriculos, Leng Spider, Shambling Mound, Wild Hunt, Ice Golem, Half-Golem, & the Greel (plus a few others) all go the extreme of Dimensional Anchor, nearly every single one of them negate Freedom of Movement, and reach Large or bigger Sizes. The ones that hit Huge auto-win their Grapple Checks vs Medium Creatures effectively making them inescapable unavoidable TPK attacks unless your Touch AC is pumped to unimaginable heights which is about the only way to deal with it in sort of applying more Ols's homebrew to the situation (like super's you can't touch me counters). And this is just one facet of Ols's love for totally raping people in a game, and some how he wants to preach Save-or-Dies are terrible because they at least offer a Save. >.>
His tweaks are not more balanced, just different and arguably less so.
So, Oslecamo, just noticed a typo in Born to Fight that changes the meaning. it says "You can also inflict nondamage effects (both ill or benefical) in a mecha even if you're on foot and smaller than them."I'm not a native english speaker. I'm afraid that type of detail goes beyond my grammar knowledge and so if you could explain the difference in this case I would be thankful.
It should probably say "You can also inflict nondamage effects (both ill or benefical) on a mecha even if you're on foot and smaller than them."
actually the odd wording on the first seems to imply that you can inflict an effect on a person inside a mech? Because "In a mecha" and "While on foot and smaller" are entirely different things to my understanding.
Using 'On a mecha' implies that the effect is directed at the mecha itself, even if you are ant sized in comparison.
I think a mecha blocks line of effect and sight to the pilot, no?
Maybe if Freedom of Movement didn't *completely negate* an entire combat style it wouldn't be important to ignore it?Who said Grapple was a "combat style"? It's an optional attack, one of four special types excluding what attacks are supposed to do, that all creatures in the game can use and PCs have the biggest disadvantage in this area compared to larger creatures that have a huge advantage. Immunity to Grapple is a balancing mechanic designed to increase the survivability of PCs.
Casters already too strong, and they can just ignore entire builds with single spellsActually, most of everyone's top protection Spells such Protection From Evil, Death Ward, Mindblank, Anti-Magic Field, Dispel, and yes Freedom of Movement because Grapple is just one tiny aspect of it, and so on are all anti-caster things that a mundane typically doesn't even care if his target has.
Updated the Mecha Engineer to the new hardpoint system. Added a restriction on accessories now since the penalties are out. Added the volatile weapon option as well. Maintenance/Reinforce now grant additional support options by allowing the engineer to use the kit options on other mechas with a standard action at touch range.Any plans to write Custom Soul Accessories (as mentioned in the Soul of the Mechanic feat), or are those still a long way off?
Feat worked well mechanically. Action economy was a good tradeoff for having multiple spirit pools and more HP. After fighting against it, I’m excited to gattai up with the rest of my party. No issues with the feat, no suggestions to make on it.
Feat use synergizes very well. Letting multiple spirits effect one mech is evil, but cool. The prayer question comes from my actions; I did a small amount of debuffing on individuals pilots and only one had prayer apparently. Now, semi related question (happened during combat): Since a spectral hand is incorporeal, can it be used to target individual pilots? In game I used it to touch a pilot that was currently not piloting the mech.
The versatility that the multi-form HEATS brought to the game was a lot of fun, but it took a looooong time to play. The increased effective spirit pool meant that they were active the whole time, while the party spent a lot more time saving up EN and SP. Overall I think the reduced action economy for more power and options is a fair tradeoff
And Anomander, is it intentional that Mecha Engineer's Energy Shield is just plain better than the G Wall at arsenal VI?Yes. At Arsenal VI there is already an accessory that grants G-Wall. I could give it a different twist at VI too instead.
We just tested out HEATS in my campaign as an opponent, and we had some thoughts on it.Out of curiosity, did you stat up the different transformations beforehand? If you're doing it on the fly yeah it's gonna take time.
It’s not something the GM should use in a synchronous game (i.e. not play by post) if they intend to make use of the transforming aspect. I found it incredibly tedious to switch back and forth between the different forms. Don’t get me wrong, I really enjoyed it, it’s just that it took up a lot of time (the combat lasted about twice as long as a normal combat despite having only one effective opponent).
Also, it resulted in a question.Well before they technically couldn't but a team pilot patching others with Prayer is intended so updated that.
Can spirits like Prayer (which affect “you or your mech”) affect other pilots in the same mech?
That's something that's up to the DM and situatin. You would need something to know where the pilot is located and stuff.Quote from: Arcane Pilot playerFeat use synergizes very well. Letting multiple spirits effect one mech is evil, but cool. The prayer question comes from my actions; I did a small amount of debuffing on individuals pilots and only one had prayer apparently. Now, semi related question (happened during combat): Since a spectral hand is incorporeal, can it be used to target individual pilots? In game I used it to touch a pilot that was currently not piloting the mech.
The versatility that the multi-form HEATS brought to the game was a lot of fun, but it took a looooong time to play. The increased effective spirit pool meant that they were active the whole time, while the party spent a lot more time saving up EN and SP. Overall I think the reduced action economy for more power and options is a fair tradeoffThanks! Always great to hear play reports.
Also, there's a dodge booster in every accessory grade except 3. is it intentional that grade 3 doesn't have one?Fixed.
Oslecamo, I've got a couple questions about various transforming robots. So, supers without fly speeds gain a fly speed equal to land speed if in jet mode. Fair enough. it's +50% (and Perfect) if they already have a fly speed. That sounds reasonable. Lets take a look at transforming reals. Holy crap the Astelion gets a fivefold increase in speed with its jet mode. The Wildraubtier gets its speed multiplied by 7.5. Sure, they're limited to only built in weapons in jet mode...but Super Robots are even more limited, to just one built in weapon. Supers get +4 dodge and -2 nat armor, while Reals get +2 doge. Is there a particular reason why Reals get such overwhelmingly better jet modes? I mean, sure, Supers tend to have better in-builts, but the Astelion's Star Breakers, at least, are incredibly good. I don't particularly mind (as it hasn't come up in my campaign, and as we don't actually have any normal Real Pilots, it's unlikely to), but I would like to know why this is the case, and if it's intentional.Intentional since "gotta go fast" is something a lot more characteristic of Real Robot shows. Yes sure Supers do it sometimes, but it's only to get closer faster and then melee it out.
While I'm on the topic of transforming Reals, can we get an option for generics to transform? I kinda want to make the Valhawk :)No to transforming generics. There's multiclass with super robot for that. But added Valhawk at grade III. And R-1 at grade I. May as well stat up a transforming real for each level.
Personally I think part of it is the Real vs Super ideology. Reals are all about superior gear, there's no arguing that. That is the product of tons of R&D and testing before it ever gets implemented full scale.Heh, true in some cases, but the reverse in others.
A Super Pilot will have lower standards because they often don't wait for something to be completely cleared, they need it NOW, and will keep it working with blood, sweat, and tears.
We just tested out HEATS in my campaign as an opponent, and we had some thoughts on it.Out of curiosity, did you stat up the different transformations beforehand? If you're doing it on the fly yeah it's gonna take time.
It’s not something the GM should use in a synchronous game (i.e. not play by post) if they intend to make use of the transforming aspect. I found it incredibly tedious to switch back and forth between the different forms. Don’t get me wrong, I really enjoyed it, it’s just that it took up a lot of time (the combat lasted about twice as long as a normal combat despite having only one effective opponent).
Well the last bit it's not my fault since it's 4th party material. :PWe just tested out HEATS in my campaign as an opponent, and we had some thoughts on it.Out of curiosity, did you stat up the different transformations beforehand? If you're doing it on the fly yeah it's gonna take time.
It’s not something the GM should use in a synchronous game (i.e. not play by post) if they intend to make use of the transforming aspect. I found it incredibly tedious to switch back and forth between the different forms. Don’t get me wrong, I really enjoyed it, it’s just that it took up a lot of time (the combat lasted about twice as long as a normal combat despite having only one effective opponent).
I did. The issue was more that I wasn't able to memorize all the different options, because level 7 characters in this system have a *lot* of options. Also, recording changes to spirit pools was awkward (which happened because the combined unit had Soul of the Machine)
Is the reason the Counter feat can't be used to trigger counters just balance? Because I've got players that want to be able to use multiple counters (maneuvers) in one round.Balance yes. There's some pretty powerful counter maneuvers around.
Also, Why is the soulgain listed in the real robots description but not the chart, and vice-versa for the arkgain. Are they intended to be the same unit?Typos fixed.
Also, the R-1 is listed as the R1 in the real robot list. either both instances should be R-1 or both should be R1 (this is bugging one of my players).
Also, the Rapiecage doesn't have a maneuverability listed for its fly speed
Also, you commented on making a transforming mecha for all arsenal grades. some suggestions my players came up with: Altairlion (which would of course need a corresponding Vegalion), Wildraubtier Schnabel, and ART-1 (which would also serve to fix my minor gripe about "why can't the R-1 have T-Link Knuckle?)Well, because it's a grade I mecha, and also because it can be represented by maneuvers, in particular since it's supposed to be Ryusei's own technique. If I remember correctly "normal" pilots can't even use it if you switch machines around. But otherwise those are good suggestions on reals to tackle next.
The Alteisen Riese seems to be overpowered in comparison to other options. It has more HP than is possible on a super robot (the designated tanks) at 400 as compared to the max HP on a super robot being 315 (without Great Plating, which brings it up to 390). It has more natural armor than a super can have at 22 as compared to the 12 a super can have (without Great Plating, which brings it up to 18). It has more DR than a super can have at 40 as compared to 35 (without Great Plating, which does bring it up to 48, if it’s colossal). It has the same EN as a super without batteries, but supers tend to be more energy intensive than reals anyway. It has a +7 bonus to saves, while a super can only have at most +6. It has 125Mu movement speed, while a super's top speed is 85Mu (without Great Agility, which does bring it up to 140, if it's colossal). It has five hardpoints, more than any other unit in the conversion save the Ashsaber. Its weapons, likewise, are incredibly powerful. its Revolving Bunker would take 9 super robot upgrades to recreate (roughly), and that's not including its to hit bonus. While this is partially balanced out by its low ammo count, it's still incredibly strong. The Claymore Avalanche is also a very powerful weapon. It's stronger than anything a super robot can have save a fully Mighty'd twinned heavy weapon, and even that will consume much more resources than the Claymores.
As for its comparisons with reals, it has the same net AC bonus as its closest competitor in the role of melee real, the Banpreios, four times the move speed, 33% more HP, only 5 less EN (and only has one EN consuming weapon), +2 points of save bonus, +15 arsenal space, +3 hardpoints, and 5 extra DR. As for a weapon comparison, while Altered Full Burst does have a massive range increase over the Claymore Avalanche, it does less damage and can only be fired twice before needing recharging, as compared to the claymore's four shots. similarly, while the T-Link Tronium Edge is much stronger than the Revolving Bunker, it can only be fired once as opposed to six times. Ranged combat is the only area the Alteisen Riese truly suffers, where it is greatly outdone by the Astranagant
If this is not an intentional design aspect, I would recommend reducing its capabilities in either defenses or weapons, or improving its competitors. If this is an intentional design aspect, would you please explain why?
...thus having no Arsenal space leftover, and actually have to sacrifice armor, ending up with 3/5 HP, Energy, Nat armor and DR of “regular” versions (minimum -1 at each of those stats)Is that meant to include the increases from upgrades or only the base stats? Such as hyperdimensional storage granting no arsenal space (but can still add a hardpoint) and and Plating granting 6 hp instead of 10. And less nat armor/DR.
...gains all of the Super Robot upgrades of its members, plus 1 "temporary" Upgrade Point per Team member that only apply while combined. It counts as having the average Pilot Level of its members for determining what those "temporary" upgrades can be.Not sure how this is supposed to work. As is it seems to stack all the super upgrades and then add a few extra ones that depends only on who the lead pilot is. But is this combination bypassing the usual maximum of upgrade points per option?
Well the last bit it's not my fault since it's 4th party material. :PWe just tested out HEATS in my campaign as an opponent, and we had some thoughts on it.Out of curiosity, did you stat up the different transformations beforehand? If you're doing it on the fly yeah it's gonna take time.
It’s not something the GM should use in a synchronous game (i.e. not play by post) if they intend to make use of the transforming aspect. I found it incredibly tedious to switch back and forth between the different forms. Don’t get me wrong, I really enjoyed it, it’s just that it took up a lot of time (the combat lasted about twice as long as a normal combat despite having only one effective opponent).
I did. The issue was more that I wasn't able to memorize all the different options, because level 7 characters in this system have a *lot* of options. Also, recording changes to spirit pools was awkward (which happened because the combined unit had Soul of the Machine)Is the reason the Counter feat can't be used to trigger counters just balance? Because I've got players that want to be able to use multiple counters (maneuvers) in one round.Balance yes. There's some pretty powerful counter maneuvers around.Also, Why is the soulgain listed in the real robots description but not the chart, and vice-versa for the arkgain. Are they intended to be the same unit?Typos fixed.
Also, the R-1 is listed as the R1 in the real robot list. either both instances should be R-1 or both should be R1 (this is bugging one of my players).
Also, the Rapiecage doesn't have a maneuverability listed for its fly speedAlso, you commented on making a transforming mecha for all arsenal grades. some suggestions my players came up with: Altairlion (which would of course need a corresponding Vegalion), Wildraubtier Schnabel, and ART-1 (which would also serve to fix my minor gripe about "why can't the R-1 have T-Link Knuckle?)Well, because it's a grade I mecha, and also because it can be represented by maneuvers, in particular since it's supposed to be Ryusei's own technique. If I remember correctly "normal" pilots can't even use it if you switch machines around. But otherwise those are good suggestions on reals to tackle next.The Alteisen Riese seems to be overpowered in comparison to other options. It has more HP than is possible on a super robot (the designated tanks) at 400 as compared to the max HP on a super robot being 315 (without Great Plating, which brings it up to 390). It has more natural armor than a super can have at 22 as compared to the 12 a super can have (without Great Plating, which brings it up to 18). It has more DR than a super can have at 40 as compared to 35 (without Great Plating, which does bring it up to 48, if it’s colossal). It has the same EN as a super without batteries, but supers tend to be more energy intensive than reals anyway. It has a +7 bonus to saves, while a super can only have at most +6. It has 125Mu movement speed, while a super's top speed is 85Mu (without Great Agility, which does bring it up to 140, if it's colossal). It has five hardpoints, more than any other unit in the conversion save the Ashsaber. Its weapons, likewise, are incredibly powerful. its Revolving Bunker would take 9 super robot upgrades to recreate (roughly), and that's not including its to hit bonus. While this is partially balanced out by its low ammo count, it's still incredibly strong. The Claymore Avalanche is also a very powerful weapon. It's stronger than anything a super robot can have save a fully Mighty'd twinned heavy weapon, and even that will consume much more resources than the Claymores.
As for its comparisons with reals, it has the same net AC bonus as its closest competitor in the role of melee real, the Banpreios, four times the move speed, 33% more HP, only 5 less EN (and only has one EN consuming weapon), +2 points of save bonus, +15 arsenal space, +3 hardpoints, and 5 extra DR. As for a weapon comparison, while Altered Full Burst does have a massive range increase over the Claymore Avalanche, it does less damage and can only be fired twice before needing recharging, as compared to the claymore's four shots. similarly, while the T-Link Tronium Edge is much stronger than the Revolving Bunker, it can only be fired once as opposed to six times. Ranged combat is the only area the Alteisen Riese truly suffers, where it is greatly outdone by the Astranagant
If this is not an intentional design aspect, I would recommend reducing its capabilities in either defenses or weapons, or improving its competitors. If this is an intentional design aspect, would you please explain why?Look at my avatar.
Ahem, the Alteisen Riese has the most HP/DR/ammo along because its design proccess basically was "add ALL the armor plating/bullets!". For Juddecca's sake, the Alteisen Riese has two tesla engines in-built just to be able to walk with all the weight it's carrying around! Do notice it has the worst Dodge around besides the Alteisen itself.
Anyway the other level VII reals may be lagging behind a bit, so I'll review them a bit and check ways to buff them as needed when I'm not half-asleep anymore.
The Pinning property reduces the speed by half for normal weapons and by 1/4 for heavy weapons. Usually the heavy weapons have a stronger effect so perhaps you meant it to be reduced by 3/4 or reduced to 1/4 (same thing).Fixed
For Peace Princess, the ability description for Rags to Royalty V and VI are listed as IV and VV.Fixed/cleaned it up.
Does Peace Princess multiclass with other stuff as a Super Pilot? Same for the Arcane Pilot. (AP multclasses with Super Pilot clearly though to as clearly with other stuff).
Same with the Divine Pilot multiclassing as a Real Pilot would.
A typo: "Divine Pilot levels stack with Real Pilot levels for determining yourSuperReal Robot level."
Also, I notice that PP and the Arcane Pilot mention taking their super robot from the Super Robot List. While there is indeed a "Super Robots List", it isn't really much of a list such as there is for the Real Robots. The Super Robots get a progression and upgrade points based on their super pilot class level so it would probably be clearer and simpler to simply have their levels treated as super pilot levels for the purpose of determining upgrade points and SRobot progression, then applying the weaker modifiers to its stats. It doesn't apply as well as it does for the Divine Pilot, from which this entry was probably copied.It applies well enough. Super Robot list is in too many places for me to have time to find and apply a customized new text to every each one of them.
The arcane pilot mentions getting half Arsenal space and Hardpoints(rounded up). The super robot doesn't get any hardpoint by default so it is now redundant. Considering they only get 4 arsenal space, the option to swap for full arsenal space is a bit strange.A multiclass super/real can have a lot of hardpoints.
Correct, applies to everything.Quote...thus having no Arsenal space leftover, and actually have to sacrifice armor, ending up with 3/5 HP, Energy, Nat armor and DR of “regular” versions (minimum -1 at each of those stats)Is that meant to include the increases from upgrades or only the base stats? Such as hyperdimensional storage granting no arsenal space (but can still add a hardpoint) and and Plating granting 6 hp instead of 10. And less nat armor/DR.
Her Mercy ability's second effect upon being reduced to 1 hp doesn't do much against targets that aren't mecha. It can however reduce someone to 5 mu (30-ft). Is there supposed to be a difference between the 2nd and 9th effect?Overhauled Mercy.
Also, some Peace Princess abilities may need prerequisites. Such as not being able to get higher spell levels before getting the earlier ones, or granting arsenal access of IV before granting the lower ones. The ability to grant so many other mechas access to the higher level arsenal options is probably too strong though. Instead of full access, it should maybe be a specific amount of arsenal option picks, split between any amount of different mecha. The number of picks limited by the number of times the ability is selected, including those for the lower arsenal levels.Good points about the connections line, applied them. However the spells having no pre-requisites is intended since there is an use in knowing lower level spells, but I also wanted to allow "suddenly big arcane power".
Might also want to clarify what the PP counts as for spirits. Maybe ship captain considering the rest of her kit.Ship Captain, also changed Scan to Ship Captain as well.
Speaking of which, the ship captain doesn't have any spirit that has a spirit cost that is low enough to be used as a first spirit. They are practically forced to take another class' spirit, which is weird.
Heats:Upgrades from the base unit count towards limit of temporary upgrades, clarified.Quote...gains all of the Super Robot upgrades of its members, plus 1 "temporary" Upgrade Point per Team member that only apply while combined. It counts as having the average Pilot Level of its members for determining what those "temporary" upgrades can be.Not sure how this is supposed to work. As is it seems to stack all the super upgrades and then add a few extra ones that depends only on who the lead pilot is. But is this combination bypassing the usual maximum of upgrade points per option?
To be sure I got this right, for example; Level 2 SR with plating 2 combining with another Level 2 SR with plating 2 gets Plating 4 with 2 temporary upgrade points that can again be put into plating 2 (with plating 3 for the temporary points being impossible even if there was a third SR in the combination since their average pilot level of 2 has a max of 2)?
Responses respectively:-Ups, my bad. :blush
No, it's your material. It's near the bottom of the super robot upgrade list.
That's reasonable.
Thank you.
Not sure which maneuver, but that makes sense.
Just because Alt has the most armor/plating/bullets etc... does not mean it should be better at what super robots do than super robots. Don't get me wrong, I love Alt, but it renders the Super Pilot class basically moot at that level, aside from Burning Justice maneuvers.Well, a Super Pilot at that level would have the advantage of higher energy to use maneuvers plus Soul of the Machine.
Other than that:-Ups, no. Traded the last spirit for another bonus feat.
Is it intentional that Real Pilots get 7 spirits when everyone else gets 6?
Peace Princess doesn't have Spirited at level 1 on the chart. Is this intentional?
Is it intentional that Einst Queen and Ship Captain do not get any SP from first level?
Also, Peace Princess's "Sweet Princess" option is kinda silly. I see the intent behind it, but it means if you can survive three attacks from an enemy, they're no longer an enemy, with no save allowed, and it's not mind-affecting so it works even on things like oozes (unless I'm missing something)
the Einst Queen's ability "Queen's Will" says it allows any biodrones controlled to use the Einst Queen's BAB "if better", but biodrones don't have a BAB. is this intentional, or a typo?
Respectively:Just because Alt has the most armor/plating/bullets etc... does not mean it should be better at what super robots do than super robots. Don't get me wrong, I love Alt, but it renders the Super Pilot class basically moot at that level, aside from Burning Justice maneuvers.Well, a Super Pilot at that level would have the advantage of higher energy to use maneuvers plus Soul of the Machine.Is it intentional that Einst Queen and Ship Captain do not get any SP from first level?-Eeerr, Ship Captain/Einst Queen's spirit points are based on their class level, why wouldn't the first level count?
Ah, so a multiclass pilot is supposed to combined the modifier on the final mecha instead of its super component. The entries gave me the impression that a multiclass divine/arcane/peace-p applied their reduction only to the super robot stats, handled separately from the stats added to the mecha from Real Pilot, Ship captain and so on.QuoteThe arcane pilot mentions getting half Arsenal space and Hardpoints(rounded up). The super robot doesn't get any hardpoint by default so it is now redundant. Considering they only get 4 arsenal space, the option to swap for full arsenal space is a bit strange.A multiclass super/real can have a lot of hardpoints.
...delivered and installed on mechas of your choice anywhere, divided as you see fit, including removing previous arsenal to make space.Is that meant to say that those arsenal options are installed without taking arsenal space/hardpoint? The part about removing previous arsenal to make space could either indicate that they still take space/hardpoint as it could refer to removing a previous use of High Connections to install them again. If they are extras then limiting it to a number per picks of High Connection specifically makes sense, also considering he princess' own reduced arsenal. Seems to be a PP channeled ability because it requires being close to her though not sure if being within the radius is required when it is applied to her own Royal Mecha.
Thanks for the reply.Channeler won't apply to that kind of stuff, but yes several Peace Princess abilities don't need to actually be channeled so you could have an easier time multiclassing (or you could be an Arcane/Divine Pilot focused on self-buffs).QuoteAh, so a multiclass pilot is supposed to combined the modifier on the final mecha instead of its super component. The entries gave me the impression that a multiclass divine/arcane/peace-p applied their reduction only to the super robot stats, handled separately from the stats added to the mecha from Real Pilot, Ship captain and so on.QuoteThe arcane pilot mentions getting half Arsenal space and Hardpoints(rounded up). The super robot doesn't get any hardpoint by default so it is now redundant. Considering they only get 4 arsenal space, the option to swap for full arsenal space is a bit strange.A multiclass super/real can have a lot of hardpoints.
(Ship Captain 18/Peace Princess 2 would then have a strong n' tough ship that isn't as strong as a full Ship Captain 20 but would have access to a few weaker PP abilities instead of having the entire 18 level of battleship reduced for them) Same with casting; the penalties and gains being in proportion for each side.
But all right.
Apologies if the question was asked before, but can a casting Pilot/PP channel spells/PP abilities through a full-stats mecha using Amplifier upgrades? Probably one amplifier per spell/ability.
Also, it was probably intended but many PP abilities do not have to be channeled as they either affect her directly or do not have to be used, such as bonuses to saves or getting mooks or a champion.
(Nice touch with the champion, by the way. Euphemia+Suzaku was also something I had in mind with the reverse cohort, which puts me mind again of making a knightmare).Actually I messed up the caps.
Royal champion; The maximum level of the champion per RtR pick seems disproportionate and the level fluctuations in its level advantage feels awkward. Here's a chart of its level advantage assuming it is progressed as soon as possible.If stabilizes at level 9, for a cost of 3 RtR picks to keep pace at a level advantage for the champion of +2/+2/+1... but is all over the place before that and the costs to maintain are not balanced (you must spend all your RtR II picks on it but only one RtR III).(click to show/hide)
It would normally require a maximum champion level of 8 for the second RtR to stabilize the lot to a sequence of +2/+2/+1. For the early levels, to maintain an advancement cost of 3 picks per RtR level, you could limit the number of picks of Royal Champion picks to your maximum PP class level. That would make it +2/+2/+2/+1 for the first four levels, which is all good.
If you'd prefer to stabilize a +2 advantage for as long as possible, you can have each RtR level option grant a +1 advantage, then a +2 advantage with a second pick until X level, at which point it would need the picks of the next RtR level to advance further. It would reduce the advancement costs to 2 picks per RtR level, however, unless the +1 advantage costs 1 pick and +2 advantage costs an extra 2 picks.
I've just read the new Mercy; there is a way for mechas to recover from them but nothing for non-mechas. All movements permanently dropping to 5 feet is pretty nasty, among other things. (though in that case it may be the result of being maimed and would require a regeneration effect to restore the crippled legs)Added auto-heal to non-mechas. Not that mercyful to leave them crippled until expensive treatment is applied.
New connections; to be sure, is it the intent that only picks of High Connections increase the amount of weapon/s.weapon/accessory that can be distributed, and the other connection abilities merely increase the arsenal level accessible, or are they also supposed to increase the amount of picks? As is the higher connection abilities do not affect the amount of arsenal stuff available to be distributed.Higher connections only allow you to requisition fancier stuff.
Also:No, you can't go over limits, just that you can unequip peasant arsenal stuff to make space for the new royal arsenal. Can't fill a cup with expensive wine if it's already filled with cheap beer.Quote...delivered and installed on mechas of your choice anywhere, divided as you see fit, including removing previous arsenal to make space.Is that meant to say that those arsenal options are installed without taking arsenal space/hardpoint? The part about removing previous arsenal to make space could either indicate that they still take space/hardpoint as it could refer to removing a previous use of High Connections to install them again. If they are extras then limiting it to a number per picks of High Connection specifically makes sense, also considering he princess' own reduced arsenal. Seems to be a PP channeled ability because it requires being close to her though not sure if being within the radius is required when it is applied to her own Royal Mecha.
Added auto-heal to non-mechas. Not that mercyful to leave them crippled until expensive treatment is applied.Sounds good. Are those meant to be a status effect that can simply be removed by any of the numerous options that cancel a negative effect? Considering the amount of options to clear ill effects away and that mercy's negative effects do not stack until the target heals, limiting it to 1 effect per round maximum.
No, you can't go over limits, just that you can unequip peasant arsenal stuff to make space for the new royal arsenal. Can't fill a cup with expensive wine if it's already filled with cheap beer.Might want to clarify that the ability only adds the arsenal level options to the arsenal available for that mecha's selections since as is it simply adds to them by having them installed. As I said, the part about replacing arsenal in the process could seem to refer to the previous use of the same ability.
Self arsenal still demands a non-null radius value.
Hi5!Added rule for that in Arsenal, such options can not be used in a mecha you're inside of.
That reminds me now that, while I do not know all the things you've crossed the SRW setting homebrews with, there's the Animated Object that gets a similar arsenal access. Maybe not up date with the Energy Arsenal stuff though.
There's also the moon vanguard minions that can pull the arsenal support trick since they can use it with their nanoarmor within the mecha. If they do not work while within a mecha, you can destroy their nanoarmor since they still keep their arsenal stuff.
An arsenal option I'm considering: Arsenal weapons of an arsenal level lower than your maximum can be taken and made twin-linked. But if that weapon has the defensive special weapon quality, such as the G-Revolver (II), is it intended to do the twin attacks as an immediate action or is it only doing one? Because as per the description of Twin-Linked, the twin attack applies in specific cases (attack with a standard action or attacks with a fullattack) and a Defensive attack isn't one of them.Added clause for that as well.
Oh, would the Tactical feat of the Martial Machine be essentially the same as the one for Gun Maniac?Well, it would have the usual "pick from 3/4 feats, plus "something synergy with 3 weapon tags", but still thinking about others. Something able to twin-link a pair of melee weapons while on foot plus make a weapon count as Heavy for boosted damage and make your unarmed strikes count as mecha-scale.
Oslecamo, the thread says you've updated battleships today, but I can't see what's changed. Would it be too much trouble to ask for a patch log whenever you change things? That'd be awesome if you'd be willing to do it!Hmmm, I guess I can give a changelog a try around here. Although the ship change was just some typo correction. :P
Hmmm, I guess I can give a changelog a try around here. Although the ship change was just some typo correction. :PA change log would be nice, but cross-indexing or completing information would be better.
The Born to Fight feat has the passive effect of allowing a pilot to affect mechas with nondamage effects (both ill or benefical) even if you're on foot and smaller than them.Clearly I missed the anti-psionic feat on the psionics splatbooks and the anti-maneuver feat in Tome of Battle. I think Libris Mortis did have anti-undead feats you could take as a warm meatbag, but they kinda sucked and you were much better off becoming an undead yourself.
Would it not make sense for non-pilots to have access to a feat that grants that ability as well? Settings introducing new elements often also give options to fight those new elements without being a part of it.
So a warrior could be an expert at taking down those metal colossi without being a pilot, even if they technically count as having a CR of +2 against him.
Otherwise, maybe a feat could allow non-pilots to qualify has having a pilot class for the purpose of qualifying for feats that do not require a mecha.
Such as the Cyber Newtype/Innovade/Coordinator feats, maybe, since they do not require being a pilot, and could then get Born to Fight if only for that passive effect.
Hmmm, I guess I can give a changelog a try around here. Although the ship change was just some typo correction. :PA change log would be nice, but cross-indexing or completing information would be better.
Like you can put the actual weapon properties in the Arsenal Thread instead of burying in one spoiler of several in another thread. You could actually put text into Arcane/Divine Pilot saying they gain Arsenal like a Super Pilot as you've had to answer in here, and then using parenthesis provide a short note of access at level 4 and upgrades once per three levels after that. One sentence can prevent a tab full of explosions and digging into this thread (and phantasy star's) for answers.
Well anyway with the new year more positive energy and let's see if I can work on my backlog. With Soro having PMd me his promised fluff I've got to do my side as well and finally compile my stuff as well.To be fair it took me three months giving you plenty of time to catch up :p
I know we talked about it in the PS game but the Fighter transformation affects fly speed how? Am I increasing my base by 150% it's normal value or is my base becoming 150% of itself? I'm still lost here.
100 mu fly becomes 250 mu?
or
100 mu fly becomes 150 mu?
If you have multiple built-in weapons can you attack with all of them in the same round?
When full attacking, a mecha may choose to either perform iteratives with a single weapon or attack once with any or all of its in-built and arsenal weapons. In the latter case, all weapons after the first take a -5 penalty on the attack roll and only add half the relevant stat to damage.
By level eight it can attack nineteen times (2 built in, 3 extra, 4 linked arsenal, 10 grenades).I'm pretty sure arsenal weapons are not built-in weapons, though. Otherwise it opens the door to a lot of new tricks.
Is Spirit Regen not obtainable multiple times for stacking effect? I apparently was doing just that and I could have sworn it either use to do so before or I asked and got an okay but I can't remember for sure....
Could it be a stacking feat? -_-'
So at level one a Super Pilot can select Extra and attack three times per round.
By level four it can attack six times per round (2 built in, 2 extra, 2 arsenal).
By level eight it can attack nineteen times (2 built in, 3 extra, 4 linked arsenal, 10 grenades).
Man all it needs is some Rending, or Sneak Attack w/e.
QuoteBy level eight it can attack nineteen times (2 built in, 3 extra, 4 linked arsenal, 10 grenades).I'm pretty sure arsenal weapons are not built-in weapons, though. Otherwise it opens the door to a lot of new tricks.
Also, you know, being able to make more than two full attacks before running out of ammo for over half your weapons. Very Gundam Heavyarms. :PYeah but once I killed the mechs next to me I don't really suffer for those AoOs and once I kill all the mechs I don't suffer from running out of ammunition either.
Very much this!Also, you know, being able to make more than two full attacks before running out of ammo for over half your weapons. Very Gundam Heavyarms. :PYeah but once I killed the mechs next to me I don't really suffer for those AoOs and once I kill all the mechs I don't suffer from running out of ammunition either.
Average damage is 30 against valid DR 17, so 13 hit per damage, for an actual total of 182 damage. Assuming you hit everything.And 40 energy for the use of Mighty. Mighty itself it doesn't accomplish much but there are so many other modifiers to damage that very high damage can indeed be reached rather easily... if everything hits. Still very strong. It is like a monster using natural weapons to fight except that natural weapons cannot be part of the combo. Not sure if that affects the use of that option for the Einst with their bioweapons/natural weapons.
Added hard cap of 1 weapon per pilot level.Twin-linked weapons still count as 2 separate weapons for that purpose one a single one? 1 per pilot level is pretty amazing.
nanoarmor is a very small mecha, a piece of gear with its own stats that borrows abilities from you, not a self-buff. Otherwise this will end with you trying to cram mechas of diferent sizes inside each other to try to stack all their abilities.
I'll let overdrive work with the "bigger" mecha. But you still can't use the nanoarmor's HP/DR/saves/AC/weapons/arsenal.
I'll make a special exception for the bigger mecha geting the youkai-forged blades from your nanoarmor however.
Well it's one of the reasons I made the Prevail feat. Trying to wear down your opponent by a big amount of small attacks isn't so hot if they get tougher as their HP drops.QuoteAverage damage is 30 against valid DR 17, so 13 hit per damage, for an actual total of 182 damage. Assuming you hit everything.And 40 energy for the use of Mighty. Mighty itself it doesn't accomplish much but there are so many other modifiers to damage that very high damage can indeed be reached rather easily... if everything hits. Still very strong.
It is like a monster using natural weapons to fight except that natural weapons cannot be part of the combo. Not sure if that affects the use of that option for the Einst with their bioweapons/natural weapons.Good point, added a clause for that in the Einst Queen bioweapons section.
Here's a group of questions:No, the benefits for Twin-Linked weapons are explicitly stated on the ability itself (fire both as standard or full attack iteratives with both replacing everything else).QuoteAdded hard cap of 1 weapon per pilot level.Twin-linked weapons still count as 2 separate weapons for that purpose one a single one? 1 per pilot level is pretty amazing.
If a support staff chooses a real robot base, say, the Astelion (3 built-in weapons). He has to get rid of half its built-in weapons; is the removal rounded down or rounded up?Another good point, clarified it's rounded up.
Are the perceptions that aren't already specifying that they depend on line of effect (such as blindsense and darkvision) bypassing line of effect? Or perhaps they work as emanation auras, going around obstacles? It is an important detail since otherwise some of them, like sensing things that aren't touching the ground then essentially just become a limited blindsense that isn't called blindsense.Clarified that spacesense and the metal detection don't demand line of sight. The "see through certain things" is already pretty explicit I believe.
Say you use a single weapon during your turn and thus get effective 2-handed damage. And then during the enemy turn you use an AoO with a different weapon while the current round still isn't over ; does it retroactively change the damage inflicted during your own turn since it no longer is the only weapon used that round? As that is how it seems to work. Unless instead of using only a single weapon per round is meant to be a single weapon per turn.You can't make the AoO with a different weapon at all. You already chosed to only use one weapon in that round.
Some pilot feat abilities vs LoE: The Innovade's machine controlling aura, the Cyber Newtype's telepathy aura, both and the Coordinator's ability to detect within their aura's range and the Leader feat's aura; do they ignore line of effect or are perhaps spread/continuous burst effects? As all they require is for the potential targets to be with in their aura's range.Telepathy still works as telepathy, blindsight still works as blindsight.
It may be obvious that Counter is a very powerful feat. Should there be a limit to the number of times it can be picked? Whether X per Y HD or by applying a limit in its usage, such as not being possible to use it more than once for the same thing (which promotes having more feats Counter can be used with, which also decreases the number of feats that can be dumped into Counter). So it could counter only once for Defend, once on Offensive Support and once on a defensive weapon.Limited both to 1+1/4 HD.
Maybe a limit to the amount of Leader feat picks as well. A regular cohort or a second officer cohort could have nothing else to do than get pumped with Leader feats. The second officer may be prevented from having allies within the ship benefit from it because of that clause about him not being able to contribute to the fight except through spirit usage (unless the he gets command while a multiclass captain leaving on his real robot) but regular cohorts do not have that restriction.
So in my discussions with Anomander I have found that Moon Vanguard very much would benefit from a section in the Mecha Basics thread defining how it and it's Nanoarmor can and cannot interact with a multiclassing/gestalt Super Pilot, Real Pilot, and Ship Captain's mechas/ships.Yeah, no, it's in another subforum altogether.
I've never thought about it before, but Super Nanoarmors that take advantage of the Growth upgrade would be tricky to wear whilst inside most Real Robots. For example, Katherine's Nanoarmor is Gargantuan. On Mecha scale she is a Small sized Mecha. Her Real Robot is Medium sized on Mecha scale. The mental picture here is an unmodified Real Robot having a cockpit big enough to accommodate a Mecha only 1 size smaller than the Real Robot.Well that's more of power armor for your power armor, which isn't that rare. There's quite a lot of Gundams where the mecha ends up piloting a bigger module. The Huckebein MK III Boxer also is this, although doesn't get any special rules since it was one of the first ones and I was/am too lazy to add any special rules to represent that in particular when the original game also didn't care much besides "now counts as a bigger/stronger Huckebein, enjoy".
Visually, I can't see this working despite this being exactly what I based my entire character around at the beginning :lmaoGundam Seed.jpg
Realistically, A Moon Vanguard/Real Pilot would have to have a very customized Real Robot to accommodate being piloted with an equipped Nanoarmor. Hell, at 16th level that Nanoarmor could be the same size as the Real Robot you're trying to pilot. What is the Real Robot now if we continue to try to make this work? An exoskeleton for the Nanoarmor with the Nanoarmor itself realigning and installing itself to become all of the functioning systems that make a Mecha work? So now in this hypothetical, A Moon Vanguard/Real Pilot's Real Robot has become a suit of armor for you suit of armor.
On the other hand, all of this weirdness is entirely avoidable if the Moon Vanguard gestalts/multis into Super Pilot and just has a Super Robot with Growth upgrades itself. But now we're all redundant with a Super Nanoarmor and a Super Robot.Nanoarmor eats it along the mecha, fleshy bits at the core are safe for now.
On to more specific things related to my character though. Anomander had this quote from you in response to one of his questions long ago.Quotenanoarmor is a very small mecha, a piece of gear with its own stats that borrows abilities from you, not a self-buff. Otherwise this will end with you trying to cram mechas of diferent sizes inside each other to try to stack all their abilities.
I'll let overdrive work with the "bigger" mecha. But you still can't use the nanoarmor's HP/DR/saves/AC/weapons/arsenal.
I'll make a special exception for the bigger mecha geting the youkai-forged blades from your nanoarmor however.
So Overdrive can affect the Mecha you're piloting with a Nanoarmor, but no using the Nano's HP/DR/Saves/AC/Weapons/Arsenal. Cool cool. What about when the "bigger" mecha gets critted with you inside, inside your Nanoarmor?
Can you use your Nano's energy to fuel the "bigger" mecha?No.
You allowed Youkai-Forged Blades from the Nanoarmor to be able to be used through to the "bigger" mecha, but what about any Super Nano upgrades that are being applied specifically to the YFBs? Main Weapon, for example.No. The YFB will count as another in-built weapon of the bigger mecha using base stats only.
In regards to Katherine; being a Real Pilot and a Moon Vanguard (of which both classes are Pilot classes), how does Born to Fight interact with the Moon Vanguard's Maneuver system compared to how it works with a Real/Super/Ship Pilot class' maneuver system? Born to Fight calls out being able to use "Pilot Maneuvers" while outside of your mecha, not caring whether they are readied or not readied maneuvers because most Pilot classes to not have Readied/Unreadied maneuvers. Can Born to Fight be used to access any Pilot Maneuver from your Moon Vanguard's known list regardless of it being readied or not?Correct, the cooldown is a key penalty.
I gotta admit, I may have been already using it like that on a couple occasions >.> At least for me, it hasn't seemed overpowered yet, especially with the 5min cooldown attached to each maneuver used as such. Admittedly I saw it as a more versatile version of Tome of Battle's Adaptive style.
I'm not sure I got everything as I've had a lot of questions come and go over the last 2-3 days...maybe Anomander will come by and fill in some of my gaps.....Yes once I get some important work finished in RL and actually get time to write new homebrew.
Oh, this last one's entirely offtopic from my above stuff but any plans on a tactical Pilot Feat for Martial Machine like you've got for all the other Pilot Schools so far?
EDIT: Considering my Yokai-Forged Blades are a built-in weapon of my Nanoarmor, does that mean my hands are technically free/empty to hold things?
Yeah, no, it's in another subforum altogether.
Well that's more of power armor for your power armor, which isn't that rare. There's quite a lot of Gundams where the mecha ends up piloting a bigger module. The Huckebein MK III Boxer also is this, although doesn't get any special rules since it was one of the first ones and I was/am too lazy to add any special rules to represent that in particular when the original game also didn't care much besides "now counts as a bigger/stronger Huckebein, enjoy".
Gundam Seed.jpg
With this change to Leader, it seems to me (based on observations of the Ship Captain in my campaign) that Ships Full of Hope needs to have its range decoupled from the number of times you have the Leader feat, because as it stands, a ship captain's range with buffs will now be only 1+1/4th HD. If you want to keep the number of Leader feats relevant, make the range on Ships Full of Hope maneuvers be leadership range + ship captain level. Basically, my game's Ship Captain has been taking almost nothing but Leader just because he can't use any of his maneuvers on the rest of the party if he doesn't. I don't know if that's intended, but it feels very harsh.Maybe a limit to the amount of Leader feat picks as well. A regular cohort or a second officer cohort could have nothing else to do than get pumped with Leader feats. The second officer may be prevented from having allies within the ship benefit from it because of that clause about him not being able to contribute to the fight except through spirit usage (unless the he gets command while a multiclass captain leaving on his real robot) but regular cohorts do not have that restriction.Limited both to 1+1/4 HD.
I'll consider it.QuoteYeah, no, it's in another subforum altogether.
Well then how about putting it in the Moon Vanguard's thread? It's a Pilot class that pulls almost all of it's abilities from the SRW Pilot stuff and all :huh
QuoteWell that's more of power armor for your power armor, which isn't that rare. There's quite a lot of Gundams where the mecha ends up piloting a bigger module. The Huckebein MK III Boxer also is this, although doesn't get any special rules since it was one of the first ones and I was/am too lazy to add any special rules to represent that in particular when the original game also didn't care much besides "now counts as a bigger/stronger Huckebein, enjoy".
Gundam Seed.jpg
The only show I can recall ever seeing bigass mechas piloting biggerass mechas was Gurren Lagann :p
But those are all Supers and Supers inside Supers makes sense to me.
It's the Reals that get weird :lmao
Weird, I don't remember the Alvatore at all...00 was one of my favorites too. Huh.
Weird, I don't remember the Alvatore at all...00 was one of my favorites too. Huh.
Just the first season's final boss. :p
Much earlier there's the Gundam Dendrobium (http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/RX-78GP03_Gundam_%22Dendrobium%22) although he only appeared on the Stardust memory OVA from 1991.
Mmh. Maybe the Spirit Up feat should also have a similar scaling maximum number of picks.I'll wait until somebody finds a way to abuse that one.
Am I correct in assuming that when the arsenal options state that they increase the spirit points of the pilot the extra spirit points apply only while the pilot is controlling the mecha? Those from the Arsenal accessories affect any pilot so it seems they are gone when the pilot is on foot and must be recovered once the pilot controls the mecha again. The Soul of the Machine upgrade however refers to the main pilot, so the effect follows that one pilot no matter who is currently piloting the mecha although it may still require for the main pilot to be controlling he mecha for him to gain the benefits. It is unclear.Yes only while controling the mecha.
Is the Moon Vanguard meant to have access to the new pilot martial disciplines as well?Yes got to go and update the moon vanguard.
Also, almost every class restricts the use of a spirit to once per turn per spirit. That limit should probably be generalized by adding it in the spirit's thread.Too much work at this point for no pratical gain.
Something else... I noticed that since there is no range to spirits and since you encourage the idea of having supporters on the sides that assist with spirit usage, there should probably also be a limit on the application of a spirit as well for the receiver, such as each spirit cannot be applied to the same target more than once unless it specifically has a clause on the matter (such as Provoke).That only results in everybody using scan on their own allies to screw enemy scans. Still eat the save penalty but will block the other side from learning anything.
It is otherwise possible to have level 1 minions and similar followers all get the Aid spirit and Spirit Regen and recover a PC's spirits by 10 each, taking turns to recharge in full.I may rememember a SRW boss or ten like that.
Since Born to Fight is a [Pilot] feat, can Counter's bonus swift or immediate action be used to activate Born to Fight's ability to activate one of your pilot maneuvers?
That only results in everybody using scan on their own allies to screw enemy scans. Still eat the save penalty but will block the other side from learning anything.Could not apply to Scan since it targets enemies rather than allies.
I may rememember a SRW boss or ten like that.Since there is no distance or anything like that to use spirits, you already confirmed that it was all right for hidden supports to use Spirits on their allies while they hide among the crowds or watch the battle from afar. The mook could also be within the mecha as with the pilot, then use the spirits on the pilot. Kind of like the ship captain's second/third in command.
Kill. Mooks. First.
Mind you, to do it with 1st level mooks they'll need at least 36 SP at first level meaning Spirit up x2. So meh, added limitation to Spirit up and now it's impossible that early.Real Pilot 1 = 6 spirit points + 20 spirit up + 5 custom color arsenal = 31 spirit points to activate Aid (30 for real pilots)
I don't want to hear that from somebody who made multiple in-game posts claiming "enemies" and "allies" are meaningless tags that just mean "whatever target I wish in this split second".QuoteThat only results in everybody using scan on their own allies to screw enemy scans. Still eat the save penalty but will block the other side from learning anything.Could not apply to Scan since it targets enemies rather than allies.
Ok, freeloaders no longer can use spirits (or anything else besides basic speech that cannot trigger other stuff) unless they have a specific ability for that.QuoteI may rememember a SRW boss or ten like that.Since there is no distance or anything like that to use spirits, you already confirmed that it was all right for hidden supports to use Spirits on their allies while they hide among the crowds or watch the battle from afar. The mook could also be within the mecha as with the pilot, then use the spirits on the pilot. Kind of like the ship captain's second/third in command.
Kill. Mooks. First.
Smoke launchers exist for a reason. If your opponent managed to set up full multi-angle real-time video with no lag at all, you may want to re-consider your anti-jamming capacities and your ability to pick your battlegrounds.QuoteMind you, to do it with 1st level mooks they'll need at least 36 SP at first level meaning Spirit up x2. So meh, added limitation to Spirit up and now it's impossible that early.Real Pilot 1 = 6 spirit points + 20 spirit up + 5 custom color arsenal = 31 spirit points to activate Aid (30 for real pilots)
Have it put its bonus feat on Spirit Regen to get a 3 rounds cooldown per use. Rotate with the other followers.
Have them all watch the battle on a TV screen in their mecha somewhere away so they stay safe.
More annoying questions about Born to Fight.No, need to be inside mecha.
Can you Overcharge your accessories while outside your mecha?
As examples ranging from abusive (overcharging to regain spirit while not near your mecha) to useful (overcharging to reduce or prevent damage to your mecha if it's in trouble and for some reason [like the ship carrying it exploding!] and you're not piloting it)
I don't want to hear that from somebody who made multiple in-game posts claiming "enemies" and "allies" are meaningless tags that just mean "whatever target I wish in this split second".It was to use an ability that works on allies to save someone that seemed forced to suicide, I recall. And you refused it then.
Ok, freeloaders no longer can use spirits (or anything else besides basic speech that cannot trigger other stuff) unless they have a specific ability for that.Excellent. Thank you. I think it is safe to assume they can still take an action to exit the mecha, though. It could also make sense that they wouldn't be able to unless the pilot opens the door/kicks them out.
As for hiding in the crowd, that's why you open the battle with a colony drop or ten. In the case of goody two shoes that's why you call evacuations.Myeah. Commoners on foot have a speed of 30-ft and they may well be in a mecha battleground measured on mu-scale. By the time they evacuate anywhere battle's probably over anyway. If they can evacuate. Anyway, if you're fine with what this makes possible, then all right.
Smoke launchers exist for a reason. If your opponent managed to set up full multi-angle real-time video with no lag at all, you may want to re-consider your anti-jamming capacities and your ability to pick your battlegrounds.Good advice. Though wait, is the setting offering anti-jamming options?
You can use the Jammer and Communication Hub simultaneously, but half of all your energy recovery is halved.That's probably meant to apply the halving once rather than making it a quarter.
I feel that it grants supers a viable build that isn't just maximum growth
The same as always, an alliance is a two-way street, while it only takes one to want to hurt somebody else. Can't help somebody that does not want to be helped and everything.QuoteI don't want to hear that from somebody who made multiple in-game posts claiming "enemies" and "allies" are meaningless tags that just mean "whatever target I wish in this split second".It was to use an ability that works on allies to save someone that seemed forced to suicide, I recall. And you refused it then.
But later you got real set on abilities that work on enemies to also work on allies for weird reasons, so I'm not sure anymore what your stance on targeting is.
Either way, the idea was that Scan could specifically mention that it can be applied more than once on the same target, since it targets opponents, like Provoke.Fair enough, but spamming benefical spirits in an ally when the going gets tough is a staple of both the computer games and related media. Army mooks cheering their commander on even if their weapons are outclassed is something that should be viable.
Just trying to help. If you're fine with the same spirit applying multiple times among allies, then all right.
You'll notice I'm actually trying to have you shut down my options before I use them.
Good point, added clause to exit and opposed rolls if the pilot does not want to let the other out.QuoteOk, freeloaders no longer can use spirits (or anything else besides basic speech that cannot trigger other stuff) unless they have a specific ability for that.Excellent. Thank you. I think it is safe to assume they can still take an action to exit the mecha, though. It could also make sense that they wouldn't be able to unless the pilot opens the door/kicks them out.
That's one of the reasons I made the Support Staff able to spam transports and bunkers and whatnot.QuoteAs for hiding in the crowd, that's why you open the battle with a colony drop or ten. In the case of goody two shoes that's why you call evacuations.Myeah. Commoners on foot have a speed of 30-ft and they may well be in a mecha battleground measured on mu-scale. By the time they evacuate anywhere battle's probably over anyway. If they can evacuate. Anyway, if you're fine with what this makes possible, then all right.
Yes it's supposed to be broad. Speaking of which nerfed it a bit by reducing communication range to 30 mu max instead of fully blocking.QuoteSmoke launchers exist for a reason. If your opponent managed to set up full multi-angle real-time video with no lag at all, you may want to re-consider your anti-jamming capacities and your ability to pick your battlegrounds.Good advice. Though wait, is the setting offering anti-jamming options?
Speaking of jammers, Heaven-Sailing Dragon's jammer mentions blocking all communications. That's a very general term since it technically also blocks sound/speech.
Also, considering a jammer can have immense range while itself being anywhere within it, should it be possible for those within the jammer to detect the direction of the jammer? Typical divinations to find stuff like scrying should count as a communication and are jammed as well.Jammers being super-effective is kinda needed for any mecha story, in particular if you want battles to happen close enough that hitting stuff with pointy plasma sticks is still a viable tactic.
It would make sense for a more local jamming since the hole in the radar is there and you can see the surface blocked, but when it applies to entire planets and wider, it gets trickier to make a mission on "We must destroy the Jamming engine", which are usually fixed locations such as those that would have been built through a Support Staff base and they cannot run away out of reach and reapply the jammer. Or stealth off and remain underground somewhere where nobody will ever find it.
I'm not sure the campaign setting is offering a counter to jamming beyond "we jammed it for you too." Perhaps making the uber jams an additional support staff base option, making the ship's more local such as the immediate battlefield and making it possible for those with wide communication reach to detect the hole in their radar, which would allow one to calculate the position of the jammer based on the intersecting spheres of effect.If that's a viable tactic, then there's no need for mechas, you just inform the artillery/missile division and blow up your enemies from beyond the horizon.
Speaking of the support staff, I'm very interested in the remaining specializations. Particularly the Science.Seems like I've worked some motivation for this today, let's see if I can take care of that.
Also:Fixed, thanks.QuoteYou can use the Jammer and Communication Hub simultaneously, but half of all your energy recovery is halved.That's probably meant to apply the halving once rather than making it a quarter.
If that's a viable tactic, then there's no need for mechas, you just inform the artillery/missile division and blow up your enemies from beyond the horizon.Not necessarily. Jammers are often in a base, which could well have anti-artillery and force shields. Coincidentally, the big mission is also taking down the mighty forceshield, which could protect the jammer. Not to say that with the current pilot disciplines a mecha/ship could well be an anti-artillery force all by itself.
Its all nice though I'll note that Zero Stance is absolutely abusable in so many ways. It also doesn't have a penalty for being sizes away from medium.
| Growth adds an AC/Attack penalty but provides a +3.5dmg increase to each weapon. Plating: +5~+35hp & +1~+9dr, 1/2 dodge. Power: +2~+15 damage, but 1/2 speed. Agility: +5~+35 speed & +1~+6 dodge, but 1/2 n-ac. Targeting: +2~+14 attack, but 1/2 dr. Miniaturization adds an AC/Attack bonus, and doesn't penalize damage. Reactor: +5~+35 energy, but 1/2 spirit. Soul: +5~+20 spirit & +1~+4 spirit regen, but 1/2 hp. Storage: +1 hardpoint & +20 arsenal, but 1/2 energy. Servos: +5~+8 to str-checks & a fuck-ton of carry increases, but 1/2 arsenal. | To bribe you from not changing your size you have the Zero line. Arts: +1 pilot level with maneuvers & +1 to maneuvers DCs per 4 pilot levels, size changes penalize this. -Stance: count as being in every stance at once for the purposes of feats. -Attack: strikes deal +(stance_levelx2) damage, also Zero can be taken once but Attack multiple times? -Defense: +4 saves/ac/opposed_rolls from a martial school and you become immune to two maneuvers. Entropy: elemental resist 5 & +1d6 to weapons & a 30ft aura that deals 1d4 per four levels, size changes penalize this. -Fog: adds fog to the aura. -Range: aura halves ranged weapons, your brain will hurt thinking about this. -Speed: everyone else has 1/2 speed in your aura. State: duplicate your self into a fragile little glass cannon that cannot heal/recover/regenerate, size changes don't care. -No choices? Weapon: +3 ac/dr/saves/str_checks if you use one weapon (also +50% ability dmg too), size changes penalize this. -Swing: free action whirlwind when you use a martial strike. -Reach: reach for melee, no aoo for ranged. -Range: melee becomes 20ft ranged with brutal & ranged gains +40mu. |
My super pilot is expressing much interest in the new Zero Pattern upgrade, specifically Zero Weapon, and wants to know if the Zero Reach option will improve his Area melee Main Weapon. I'm inclined to think yes, but by the rules it doesn't. What's the intention for that interaction?
I'll consider it after rules for super fortifications are in place.QuoteIf that's a viable tactic, then there's no need for mechas, you just inform the artillery/missile division and blow up your enemies from beyond the horizon.Not necessarily. Jammers are often in a base, which could well have anti-artillery and force shields. Coincidentally, the big mission is also taking down the mighty forceshield, which could protect the jammer. Not to say that with the current pilot disciplines a mecha/ship could well be an anti-artillery force all by itself.
Working out the area of effect of the jam on hidden jammers that aren't moving all that much to calculate its source's position seems like very valid tactic. Especially to force it to move if it is mobile. And stuff that moves is easier to notice. Prevents the case of the galaxy-wide underground hidden jammer that everyone forgot about except the big bad.
Its all nice though I'll note that Zero Stance is absolutely abusable in so many ways. It also doesn't have a penalty for being sizes away from medium.Yeah, forgot the anti-size change clause. Added that plus clause against temp buffs.
One example among many; a mecha could use buffs before splitting, such as the Zeal spirit. Then all your copies have two rounds, and can end the turn by undoing the copies.
Some mention the Fine size category. But miniaturization cannot go below diminutive.Just planning ahead.
1. Done.Its all nice though I'll note that Zero Stance is absolutely abusable in so many ways. It also doesn't have a penalty for being sizes away from medium.Some suggested changes.
Growth adds an AC/Attack penalty but provides a +3.5dmg increase to each weapon.
Plating: +5~+35hp & +1~+9dr, 1/2 dodge.
Power: +2~+15 damage, but 1/2 speed.
Agility: +5~+35 speed & +1~+6 dodge, but 1/2 n-ac.
Targeting: +2~+14 attack, but 1/2 dr.
Miniaturization adds an AC/Attack bonus, and doesn't penalize damage.
Reactor: +5~+35 energy, but 1/2 spirit.
Soul: +5~+20 spirit & +1~+4 spirit regen, but 1/2 hp.
Storage: +1 hardpoint & +20 arsenal, but 1/2 energy.
Servos: +5~+8 to str-checks & a fuck-ton of carry increases, but 1/2 arsenal.To bribe you from not changing your size you have the Zero line.
Arts: +1 pilot level with maneuvers & +1 to maneuvers DCs per 4 pilot levels, size changes penalize this.
-Stance: count as being in every stance at once for the purposes of feats.
-Attack: strikes deal +(stance_levelx2) damage, also Zero can be taken once but Attack multiple times?
-Defense: +4 saves/ac/opposed_rolls from a martial school and you become immune to two maneuvers.
Entropy: elemental resist 5 & +1d6 to weapons & a 30ft aura that deals 1d4 per four levels, size changes penalize this.
-Fog: adds fog to the aura.
-Range: aura halves ranged weapons, your brain will hurt thinking about this.
-Speed: everyone else has 1/2 speed in your aura.
State: duplicate your self into a fragile little glass cannon that cannot heal/recover/regenerate, size changes don't care.
-No choices?
Weapon: +3 ac/dr/saves/str_checks if you use one weapon (also +50% ability dmg too), size changes penalize this.
-Swing: free action whirlwind when you use a martial strike.
-Reach: reach for melee, no aoo for ranged.
-Range: melee becomes 20ft ranged with brutal & ranged gains +40mu.
1. Change ft to mu.
2. Larger mechs should have the Tek's Storage and smaller mechs should have Great's Agility.
3. Zero State needs choices, probably ones that make it less of a suicide option like allowing one of hp/spirit/energy to regenerate.
4. Zero State should also be penalized based on size.
5. Zero State's 32 copies is excessively game breaking. After a certain point they all have 0 ammo/energy and die in one hit (in phantasy star that point is "one clone") meaning all you're doing is asking for them to fully abuse it's offensive power. Like sending 2~4 clones away so they can never die and using class features or tank mode's limitless built-in ammo to deal thousands of damage (or just be a halfing with swarmfighting and melee them to death). I'd go with 1 clone per 4hd, so it's slightly less broken, but see the 6th entry too.
6. Zero State's clones should not be an XP-free copy of the banned Ice Assassin Spell, a little consistent with what you claim to hate and your homebrew being thirty two times worse would be useful. Maybe the clones can act like a Familiar's Mech but with a better stat block. Like it'll have 1/4 hp, 1/5th energy, one weapon that deals built-in+mod damage that ignores DR, or something.
7. Zero Arts, holy crap. Thanks to the +3 stacking bonus to your level (ie IL), you get 9th level maneuvers by lv14. Did you think Touhou's x5 stuff was broken? Now get it three levels faster!
8. Andomander knows your crazy homebrew better and things Zero Art's Stance is also pretty insane.
I similarly have a lot of balance recommendations for the new abilities since many are quite over the top compared to their Great One equivalent. The Zero line, mostly, considering that they get free increases for not changing size while actually changing size has its own upgrade cost. But Soro summed up quite a few of these points nicely.Geez, one may think that there's no benefits for being big/small by itself. :P
But there is a lot more to comment on, when I'll have time to.Yes, more unpaid work, everything's going according to the plan. Gendo.jpg
3/4/5/6. Yes, I forgot the anti-size clause for Zero State. Overhauled quite a bit following your suggestions.And it's looking better. All through the -2 pilot level kind of has the same problem as the Maneuver side, it seems like every time you split you need to recalculate upgrades. Also as written the Arcane/Divine Pilot pay massively to use the ability, like 2~4 Spell Slots of each level just for splitting once, on top of every Slot used for some continued benefit prior to splitting. And what happens if the Pilot decides to step out? And sell his Magical Items?
Zero State(Su/Ex): As a swift action your mecha can split in a perfect copies of itself provided no other copies currently exist, they appear adjacent to the original and can take their turn following the original's. When one of the copies die, if another exists, it simply vanishes in a personalized visual display. Since the mechs are separate they use their own separate pools of Hit Points, Energy, and Ammo evenly split between them at the time of fission (rounded down). This effect does not duplicate the pilot or anything stored within, rather they move into a quantum state in an extraplanar space and as long as the mech remains split anything inside is unable to exit by any means. Each mech benefits from having the pilot normally, including a split up portion of the pilot's HP pool for determining when a copy should vanish, except since only one pilot technically exists any resources such as Spell Slots, Readied Maneuvers, Charges remaining on Magical Items and other such effects are all depleted from the same pool, through the pilot is only killed if all the mechs are destroyed. Special effects already in place of the split are copied to each but each mech's turn reduces the duration as if an entire round has passed. The original and copies are treated as if they had two negative levels except they do not suffer a loss to their Spell Slots. When the mechs split most weapons become nonfunctional, each one gains up to two weapons the original full mech had access to.It's a bit wordy but answers a few things and prevents a ton of combinations. It also prevents you from copying Zeal while allowing you to keep Wish-granted Inherent bonuses to ability scores too. Plus trapping a single-incarnation of the pilot just prevents a lot of imaginative abuse.
For every 4 Super Pilot levels of the original you can maintain one extra copy simultaneously, but each extra copy increases the effective negative level penalty shared by all of them by one and you also gain one ability chosen from below. For each size category the super robot is away from medium count your pilot level as 4 lower for the purpose of this ability. While split none of the clones can recover Energy/Ammo/Spirit Points/HP or other limited uses abilities/resources by any means. Any copy can dismiss another as a swift action which reduces the effective negative level penalties as appropriate for the number of remaining duplicates. There is no true "original" while split, rather when there is only one remaining it regains it's nonfunctional weapons and the pilot is able to exit. You cannot use this ability if any of the split mechs (or pilot pools) would have a negative hit point value after splitting or interplanar movement are prohibited when you attempt to split. Finally the duplicates only last for a number of minutes equal to your HD, after which point all but the one of your choice vanishes as if dismissed.
Also for the record, Ice Assassin has no cap besides how many spell slots you can throw at it along a Thought Bottle.
Can a thought bottle (CAr, 150) be used to restore XP lost from casting a spell or creating a magic item?
No. The item description indicates that its intended function is to restore lost levels. It doesn’t erase XP costs from other sources.
After sleeping on it I think a duration on it would probably help some things too since it'd lessen it's save-state capability. Edit, just patched in a 1min/HD to it.Hm. Though adding a duration further makes it feel like an ability that doesn't belong in the Super Upgrade options.
Clarified that the pilot level reduction is only for calculating ability effects, not which abilities you have available.3/4/5/6. Yes, I forgot the anti-size clause for Zero State. Overhauled quite a bit following your suggestions.And it's looking better. All through the -2 pilot level kind of has the same problem as the Maneuver side, it seems like every time you split you need to recalculate upgrades.
Also as written the Arcane/Divine Pilot pay massively to use the ability, like 2~4 Spell Slots of each level just for splitting once, on top of every Slot used for some continued benefit prior to splitting.Excuse me for not making the upgrade super synergetic with the best ability in the game.
And what happens if the Pilot decides to step out?They step out?
And sell his Magical Items?The mecha is split. The pilot is split. Anything else isn't split, including personal items. Clarified, enjoy your half-naked piloting.
Here is my attempt at wording this thing, it might need some more tweaks to get a concept across idk.Let me stop you right there. I've had more than enough D&D discussions that this final line can and will be interpreted as "every single weapon remains functional since 'most' is whatever number I please and thus shall be zero, plus gain two brand new weapons per copy".QuoteZero State(Su/Ex): As a swift action your mecha can split in a perfect copies of itself provided no other copies currently exist, they appear adjacent to the original and can take their turn following the original's. When one of the copies die, if another exists, it simply vanishes in a personalized visual display. Since the mechs are separate they use their own separate pools of Hit Points, Energy, and Ammo evenly split between them at the time of fission (rounded down). This effect does not duplicate the pilot or anything stored within, rather they move into a quantum state in an extraplanar space and as long as the mech remains split anything inside is unable to exit by any means. Each mech benefits from having the pilot normally, including a split up portion of the pilot's HP pool for determining when a copy should vanish, except since only one pilot technically exists any resources such as Spell Slots, Readied Maneuvers, Charges remaining on Magical Items and other such effects are all depleted from the same pool, through the pilot is only killed if all the mechs are destroyed. Special effects already in place of the split are copied to each but each mech's turn reduces the duration as if an entire round has passed. The original and copies are treated as if they had two negative levels except they do not suffer a loss to their Spell Slots. When the mechs split most weapons become nonfunctional, each one gains up to two weapons the original full mech had access to.
Too bad, pilot splitting is non-negotiable for me. Gear multiplying never happened and Zeal was already specifically blocked from being copied. I believe that's everything covered besides your wish of making this the only upgrade with limited uses per day which would make it the only upgrade with limited uses per day and in case it wasn't clear none of the upgrades have limited uses per day. Aka no upgrades with limited uses per day.QuoteFor every 4 Super Pilot levels of the original you can maintain one extra copy simultaneously, but each extra copy increases the effective negative level penalty shared by all of them by one and you also gain one ability chosen from below. For each size category the super robot is away from medium count your pilot level as 4 lower for the purpose of this ability. While split none of the clones can recover Energy/Ammo/Spirit Points/HP or other limited uses abilities/resources by any means. Any copy can dismiss another as a swift action which reduces the effective negative level penalties as appropriate for the number of remaining duplicates. There is no true "original" while split, rather when there is only one remaining it regains it's nonfunctional weapons and the pilot is able to exit. You cannot use this ability if any of the split mechs (or pilot pools) would have a negative hit point value after splitting or interplanar movement are prohibited when you attempt to split. Finally the duplicates only last for a number of minutes equal to your HD, after which point all but the one of your choice vanishes as if dismissed.It's a bit wordy but answers a few things and prevents a ton of combinations. It also prevents you from copying Zeal while allowing you to keep Wish-granted Inherent bonuses to ability scores too. Plus trapping a single-incarnation of the pilot just prevents a lot of imaginative abuse.
It also reduces the penalty to casters. Like Super Pilots can split up then send their "primary" in and die while their secondary clone that hung back in a safe house serves to negate their death without any penalties. And in between Encounters he can recombine, fully heal up and charge his Energy, Reready his Maneuvers, and resplit to set things up against for risk free Encounter within five minutes. And even if he were to resplit again during an Encounter him and his clones remain in their respective Stances and benefit from whatever additional effects they include. But as you had it set up, if an Arcane wanted to do the same thing it'd auto-wipe half the Spell Slots each time, the clone wipes the original's source of continued benefits, and they would have to burn another series of Slots for each buff they like.Oh noes, casters don't dominate everything for once! The horror! The unimaginable horror! It's almost like the Arcane Pilot didn't have his own copy minions in the form of the mech familiars!
Single-pool and multiplying the duration removes the initial Slot loss and doesn't penalize you because you decided to split after casting Haste on the party or losing the benefits of Inspire Courage because the Bard started singing a round before you split. But you still functionally have to cast Greater Mage Armor twice if you want two mechs to benefit from the spell for the same duration, or cast it three times if you want three mechs to benefit from it and so on. In this regard it also works a little against long duration buffs (such as Persist) too. Instead of splitting and uber buffing a "primary" target capable of healing HP and just forgoing Energy/Ammo, or maybe a Divine Pilot uses Temp HP and wants to recover energy for damage/barriers, or w/e you can imagine to increase the "primary's survivability. Setting up the anti-death clone reduces the buffs of the main combatant which can cause them to drop even if he finds a way to avoid being killed. He'll have a reason to merge back together and remain together beyond simply replenishing certain statistics.I have no interest in providing any reason to promote copies merging back together. And keeping one somewhere safe is indeed an intended strategy. They'll still be fighting at a penalty for the extra safety.
Finally just a limited duration just plain caps popping a clone out in the morning anyway. Per round almost seems too limiting, specially given the other nerfs applied, but minutes let's you play with the ability for scouting or such."I love the smell of -X to AC, skills, overall reduced ability effectiveness and less than half HP/spirit/energy by the morning" doesn't exactly sound like the breakfast of champions to me.
Oh, that's pretty nice to know, thanks! :)Also for the record, Ice Assassin has no cap besides how many spell slots you can throw at it along a Thought Bottle.Quote from: FAQCan a thought bottle (CAr, 150) be used to restore XP lost from casting a spell or creating a magic item?
No. The item description indicates that its intended function is to restore lost levels. It doesn’t erase XP costs from other sources.
Thing is smaller mechas already are already more precise by default.QuoteLarger mechs should have the Tek's Storage and smaller mechs should have Great's Agility.I'd say that speed is something more common to bigger creatures than smaller ones. Large core creatures often have a speed of 40 ft while smaller ones have a speed of 20 ft, for example.
I'd say Great Targeting for smaller creatures would make more sense, since big stuff get a size penalty to hit and smaller stuff get a bonus instead. Easier to be precise when you're smaller. Keeping it a Great One ability is better for my comp, though. It does feel like more arsenal/hardpoints for bigger stuff may make sense but usually equipment size is proportional.
Super Servos: Should it not be +1 per pick? The bonus to Disarm would stack with Target's increase to attack rolls, by the way.Eeeeerrr, would anyone ever pick it if it was a measly +1 per point? Yes, Disarm stacks with targeting, but since Arsenal weapons are so easy to take in multiples nowadays I feel it's not that much of a problem.
Great One: Something I've noticed. They all get about an equivalent amount of effective super upgrade picks at medium size, but the equivalent number of bonus super upgrade picks per size increase isn't the same from one size increase to the next. Which means that some Great One picks are much more cost efficient than others.They're not cumulative indeed.
For example, Great Agility is twice as efficient as Great Plating and Great Targeting is about twice as efficient as Great Agility and four times as efficient as Great Plating. They should all be equalized if we go with the premise that the upgrade point options are all of equal worth.
Great Plating- 4x plating +dodge bonus halved. /+~half plating /+~1x plating /+~2x plating /+~x3.5 plating
Great Agility- 4x agility +natural armor halved. /+agility /+2x plating /+4x agility /+~7x agility
Great Targeting- 4x targeter + DR is halved. /+2x target /+5x targeter /+9x targeter /+14x targeter (wut!?)
Assuming these extras per size are not cumulative. It isn't clear.
Tek Reactor: 4x battery + but max Spirit is halved. + half battery /+1x battery /+2x battery /+3.5x battery. ; It follows the pattern for Great Plating. All good.Moved the HP halving clause.
Tek Soul: 4x SotM /+1x SotM /+2x SotM /+ 3x SotM /+4x SotM. ; Upgrade point growth is superior to Great Plating/Tek Reactor. Also, careful with putting the HP halving at the very end after the growth for Fine, especially when only separated by a comma. It looks like it applies only to fine sized mechas, which is clearly not intended.
Tek Storage : Before all else, I'll point that I do not think that having an upgrade of this kind for hyperdimensional storage is a good idea. Mostly considering that the value per point does not compare with the others since it can only be picked once per 4 pilot levels to begin with, which means that no matter what you get there the value is immense.Well there's the part where energy is halved but I'll agree the initial version may've been too strong. Heavily nerfed it.
Consider, the default value is 2 hardpoints and 25 arsenal space. That's worth 3 hyperdimensional storage picks which requires 12 levels in super pilot by default.
The value per pick is exponential as well. 3 picks is worth 1+2+3 = 6 upgrade points. You spend only 4 upgrade points for this bundle.
Then you get an extra pick and almost a half the next size category, which is worth at least an extra 4 points for a total of 10 before further size categories. And that is all assuming that hyperdimentional storage upgrade points aren't taken on the side as well, which you can be is the case considering the worth per point pick of Tek Storage doesn't affect them, effectively increasing the point worth of Tek Storage to 9 at medium pre-super pilot level 8, a worth of 14 points pre-level 8 at small size, a worth of 12 points at medium size for levels 8-11, and effectively 18 points at small size for pilot level 8-11. A level 20 super pilot could normally not get more than 4 hyperdimensional storage picks for 10 points. This is nuts.
Tek Servos: 4x pick for half arsenal (which is a strange thing to halve considering that arsenal space isn't something they get much of by default anyway, essentially driving the pilot to just get Nanomachines/Mysterious Power instead). /+~2.5x pick /+~3x pick /+~3.5x. Strange progression rate. Better than Great Plating/Tek Reactor at some size tiers.Actually was too small. Again, doesn't really matter the relation to super servos in a vacuum, it matters that it actually gets better as you decrease size, meaning overcoming the size penalties.
Zero Arts +1 pilot level and DC, which increases every 4 super pilot level. This is already pretty darn good by itself compared to the other Great/Tek upgrades considering the worth and rarity of the stat it increases. I think it is well worth the 4 upgrade points as is. Further, I'll note that, just like normal size increases/decreases, the Great and Tek upgrades have advantages and disadvantages, usually in the form of halving another stat. The Zero abilities have no penalty whatsoever, which effectively makes them twice as good.Zero Weapon demands you to use only one weapon, Zero State inflicts penalties whenever you use it.
Plus you don't have to pay extra upgrade points to access the improvements even though the increases are more linear than exponential. Not good from a balance point of view. This means that, for all the Zero abilities, unless they are weaker than their Great/Tek counterparts, they are overpowered by default.
Those extras would also be worth a feat each. Another impression is that as is they make Super Robots superior to Real robots. They scale much better.
Zero Entropy Let's see, each pick of Alien Alloy grants 10 resistance and reinforced +1. So resistance 5 being half of what is granted before the extra ability this would be sort of a quarter Alien Alloy pick. 1d6 deals an average of 3.5 extra damage when Great Power grants 4 damage, which can improves with weapon upgrade synergy, but has an halved stat penalty. Then add an auto damage aura. I'd say this ability too is as good if not better than a Great/Tek equivalent before the extra abilities.Something that you seem to be overlooking on Zero Entropy is that the effects also screw up any nearby allies.
Which would be overpowered even if they were a feat each, by the way.
The perpetual fog is very good though at least there is an arsenal counter provided within the same setting's material.
Zero Range is very, very good considering the low range of most of the arsenal and built-in weapons provided to the mechas by the setting itself.
Zero Speed is crazy. You the radius of the ability gets pretty big. At level 12 this is a 120-mu aura that sets the speed of everything else down to a quarter. So something out of your aura needs to travel at least 480 mu to reach you. Assuming there isn't fog on top that which you cannot see through since that would further halve your movement. A charge could be made with a speed of 240-ft, but that isn't within the range of most mechas at that level. The gains vs cost of the ability are just way too good. The aura just gets way too large for an overpowered extra that isn't even needed for the ability to be on par with the similar options to begin with.
Personally, I'd say that this ability should not be a super upgrade. It should be something else entirely, such as a prestige class ability, maneuvers or similar. I'd say the same for most of these Zero Extras. They don't feel like they belong with the rest of the kit.
Zero State: The nerf makes it a lot harder to abuse but the potential is still there. The worst is taken care of by preventing copies from making more copies the same turn, still. I'll note, though, that even a single copy is amazing if only for the action economy value. For the same reason that Ancient Temple boost that creates a copy is so darn strong. It can multiple an entire combo.Well yes but as seen in the campaign with Katherine it also burns resources pretty fast.
That said, here is what I think of the mechanics of the ability itself;Didn't plan that detail but I'm keeping it.
When the cloning is done, the two copies generated appear adjacent... but adjacent to what? To the original pre-split robot or adjacent to each-other? The former allows them to appear with distance between them.
Soro figured it out as well Indeed, the pilot should not be copied. It allows a plethora of abuse options common to any other effect that makes a copy of the user... but there is also abuse potential in the fact that it specifically copies the "main pilot", rather than just the pilot. Someone piloting another's super robot with this would be able to make a clone of the original pilot of the super robot with this ability.
The ability also copies only the main pilot and the super robot, so any passengers and items stored within the robot aren't copied - the two copies of the original split thus infer that those stored objects and passengers drop off to the ground at the spot the original split from.Items are split, added clause to block division if carrying passengers.
It also provides a source of sentient sacrifices off the copied pilots.Good point, added clause that they're useless for sacrifices.
You can also get the copies to form a mob you can then lead, thus bypassing quite a few penalties.Also added that copies coming too close will make one collapse automatically to prevent mob/unit shenigans.
You can also have the copied pilots leave the mecha for other tricks and get the Sentient upgrades to get a bunch of mecha copies that still follow your commands. I could go on but I think you get the point.Ok, I'll bite, what's exactly so OP about half-naked pilots coming out?
The ability also assumes that the user has control over the copies.No, just that they still have the same agenda. Unless you're highjacking somebody else's super robot in which case good luck explaining them why you're highjacking their super robot.
The ability also has a lot of utility outside of combat.Definitely intended.
I've mixed feelings about Zero Circuit. It has OP potential despite the restrictions but they really help and tuning it down.Again, the copies are also plain worst than the original so you're reducing the chances of actually succeeding on the adventure to protect your skin which is kinda how 99% of mecha villains end up losing.
Otherwise, perhaps a range limit between the copies would be required. It makes "adventuring from the comfort of your home" by sending a copy to do the quests for minimum risks very, very tempting despite the more fragile state of the copy doing all the work.
Zero Weapon: This one's a bit trickier to gauge. Kind of like a partial Super Servos/Agility/Plating with a bonus to saves, which has no real upgrade equivalent but we can guess it would be a costly one since it would be at least one upgrade per +1 bonus to saves. It depends on specific weapon usage, however, which diminishes the worth a slightly. As such, the original worth is indeed at least what one would expect of the original equivalent worth of a Great/Tek upgrade. The ability scales with pilot levels as well in a linear fashion, and does not actually have a penalty either, so it, too, is already on par if not superior to them before you even add the Extras.Since when is being limited to a single weapon not a penalty?
Absolute Barrier: Considering that this is available starting at level 1 and that mechas now mostly begin with 100 energy, I'd say that in most cases this is superior to Gravity Wall. You also get a remarkable immunity as an extra, some of which are pretty darn rare and very difficult to acquire otherwise. Plainly OP, especially early.Heavy overhaul.
Late game it is easier to work around using all the tricks that work on those energy shield abilities, but those are harder to do early game and it may get boring to play who breaks the other's shield first/who runs out of propellant packs first.
As an aside, I recall the Zero Range passive in PSO2 to be a ranged weapon option that makes them hit harder when you are close to the target. You make them get better range.
Thing is smaller mechas already are already more precise by default.I see! In that case you'll want to maintain the proportion for the speed increases of Great Agility to match Great Plating and only raise the AC bonus to compensate for the AC penalty. Getting bigger doesn't make you slower. If the main idea is to cover the size penalties, however, I'd also recommend to have the ability simply remove the size penalty instead of getting a higher flat bonus. This is to avoid getting that benefit from multiple sources to get a net improvement.
+Great One and such removing size penalties
You need to take in account sinergies. Increasing max HP/energy is a lot more valuable since several effects here recover percentages of those not to mention the spirits that outright fully recover HP/energy, whereas most spirit recovering effects are static and thus having a bigger max does not help you recover faster.Well aware, though I was only comparing the cost/effectiveness in upgrade points for each pick. I'm taking for granted that when you decided how much each upgrade option would grant of their respective bonus you already took synergy potential into account to make them equal in value as an upgrade point pick. Mechanically the proportion of worth per pick should remain equivalent.
Zero Weapon demands you to use only one weapon, Zero State inflicts penalties whenever you use it.Zero Weapon has no penalty. You can still use other weapons, you're just not getting rewarded for it. A penalty would be a disadvantage at all times.
Ok, I'll bite, what's exactly so OP about half-naked pilots coming out?The point was that I don't have to keep listing things that may make it abusable or raise game mechanics questions because it'll take a while before we cover everything.
No, just that they still have the same agenda. Unless you're highjacking somebody else's super robot in which case good luck explaining them why you're highjacking their super robot.If they are not under control, it leads to a perfectly logical end point; every pilot copy has its own sense of self and thus absolutely isn't interested in being the one to get dismissed/destroyed. They would each plot the destruction of the others so that they cannot be dismissed and then never use the ability again for fear of being destroyed in the process. Yes, of course, the entity they are representing would remain but speaking for the copy that will die forever, the notion isn't all that appealing. The remaining copies would still be you... but not really. Am I going too deep with this? I don't think so since this is a role playing game. A character using this effectively would require a pretty unusual way of thinking.