Author Topic: High-End OOC thread II-Party still splitting  (Read 85374 times)

Offline oslecamo

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Re: High-End OOC thread II-Party still splitting
« Reply #40 on: December 22, 2013, 11:37:12 AM »
Pf. Take Hugo with you. :lmao Oh, invisible, I see.
Still, unless someone says otherwise, I'll assume that Ketaro gives him a ride, otherwise Hugo will be out of the action for quite a bit.

Aaaaanyway, the highest DC given for breaking a door by sudden force is Iron (after 'Strong'), so I'm wondering if this is that sort of door or tougher. XD

Magically Treated Reinforced Layered Carbon Nano-Structure can give +20 to break DCs.

Hm. Detail I'm wondering about: A Doll Judgement adept can channel his maneuvers through his dolls, but can he channel his  maneuvers if they are Ancient Temple maneuvers? They can only be done with youkai blades and your dolls don't have them.
Must they have youkai blades of their own to channel them or can you use your maneuvers and just channel their effect through the dolls, since you are the puppeteer and you technically are the one initiating them?
As already said, the dolls count as you when making the attacks, except for the weapon they're wielding. So they would need youkai blades of their own.

If you want to channel them through an immortal/special doll, is it the same? Mostly because I don't think they can die of old age and get the Netherworld Gardener feat themselves. Unless we get them the Alternate Form monstrous feat at 1st level to have their true form changed to an animal or humanoid one, which can perhaps qualify.
Dolls are indeed immortal and thus don't qualify for Ancient Temple. Alternate Form feat wouldn't work because their creature type doesn't change, and thus would remain a construct.

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: High-End OOC thread II-Party still splitting
« Reply #41 on: December 22, 2013, 11:39:42 AM »
Plus 20? Curses, exactly one too high to break even with a natural 20.

Using the sword as a way of forcing entry it is! Unless someone has a better way to open this door.
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Offline ketaro

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Re: High-End OOC thread II-Party still splitting
« Reply #42 on: December 22, 2013, 07:37:50 PM »
Pf. Take Hugo with you. :lmao Oh, invisible, I see.
Still, unless someone says otherwise, I'll assume that Ketaro gives him a ride, otherwise Hugo will be out of the action for quite a bit.

I was going to say that I actually cannot carry people, but then I forgot that being larger improves carrying capacity and I'm technically Huge atm. So I guess Hugo could hold on.

Offline Anomander

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Re: High-End OOC thread II-Party still splitting
« Reply #43 on: December 22, 2013, 08:41:56 PM »
Quote
As already said, the dolls count as you when making the attacks, except for the weapon they're wielding. So they would need youkai blades of their own.
I understood that part, which is why I asked if weapon requirements for channeled maneuvers had to be fulfilled by the puppeteer or by the puppets. As in, since you meet the maneuver's requirements, you can channel the effect through the puppet.
Some disciplines require a feat (all forbidden disciplines do), Riverside View requires that you aren't a construct, Divine Flame requires fire immunity and Ancient Temple also requires the use of very specific weapons.
Your answer suggests that the dolls are the one that must meet the requirements to channel effects, so they cannot channel Riverside View maneuvers, cannot channel Divine Flame maneuvers unless they somehow get fire immunity and cannot channel Ancient Temple unless they get a youkai blade somehow (maybe off some defeated Ancient Temple adepts).
Since they need any material requirement to channel effects, I imagine they also need all the material components and foci required by any spell channeled through them. If such is the case it sounds like something important to point out in the Puppeteer Theater stance description, since the caster can't just do the somatic/vocal components and offer the material/focus component to have the doll just channel the spell's effect.

Quote
Dolls are indeed immortal and thus don't qualify for Ancient Temple. Alternate Form feat wouldn't work because their creature type doesn't change, and thus would remain a construct.
Alternate Form, the ability, does not change a creature's type but the feat of the same name allows you at 1st level to have your true form be either your base form or the one chosen by the feat. If your true form is the humanoid/animal form, perhaps your true type (that isn't changed when using the feat to switch form) is the one of your true form as well.
Though perhaps I'm taking this too literally and it really is only meant to be for the purpose of divination-like effects as opposed to really be your true form and doesn't actually allow your supposed true form to make you eligible to meet the prerequisites of things requiring you to be an humanoid/animal. Not that it really is relevant in this situation (thought it would had been cool to have a living puppet without using spells).
« Last Edit: December 22, 2013, 08:45:40 PM by Anomander »

Offline Kuroimaken

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Re: High-End OOC thread II-Party still splitting
« Reply #44 on: December 23, 2013, 12:08:12 PM »
Pf. Take Hugo with you. :lmao Oh, invisible, I see.
Still, unless someone says otherwise, I'll assume that Ketaro gives him a ride, otherwise Hugo will be out of the action for quite a bit.

I was going to say that I actually cannot carry people, but then I forgot that being larger improves carrying capacity and I'm technically Huge atm. So I guess Hugo could hold on.

"So all I gotta do now is to choose what to hold on to <3

I kid. This is Hugo, not Raoul.
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Offline Anomander

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Re: High-End OOC thread II-Party still splitting
« Reply #45 on: December 24, 2013, 05:53:19 AM »
Been thinking.

In PS lore the government seem to also be the Administration (though sometimes they seem to be two different divisions of authority on Pioneer 2). But I doubt that government is also meant to be the Government (as per this campaign's setting).

If I got it right it goes as follow, at least in this campaign:

Androids take over Parum during their rebellion. They forge an alliance with other planets. The alliance negotiates with the Government (that pretty much covers all the colonies) to be allowed to peacefully claim and colonize Ragol as part of some kind of expansion project (sensibly logical considering Parum's usage of space has been over-optimized, that one of the planet is a massive aquapark and that the other is a pretty shitty place to live in). Government officials, being pretty much everywhere to prevent inter-conflicts, would thus also be on Ragol.
The Android Organization (not the alliance) put the second colonization project on hiatus after some incident happened.
Why the AAdmin is in charge and not the actual alliance seems to imply that although the alliance made the deal to settle on Ragol, only Parum gets to enjoy it.
There is a military (which belongs to the alliance?) but instead of using it they rely on the services of the Hunter's Guild (maybe they aren't qualified or available enough for the task).

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: High-End OOC thread II-Party still splitting
« Reply #46 on: December 24, 2013, 07:40:10 AM »
So, no-one has a better option for breaking down the door?
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Offline Anomander

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Re: High-End OOC thread II-Party still splitting
« Reply #47 on: December 24, 2013, 08:40:34 AM »
Well, there ain't that many options.

-Get whoever can open the door there (maybe the dead scientist's body).
-Ask E-Prototype her opinion on what to do (she'd have to deal with it anyway so maybe she can find a way in).
-Blast the door open.
-Blast the wall open.
-Beat the break DC (with people helping out with some Aid Another, it might be possible)
-Say the magic word?

Offline Kuroimaken

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Re: High-End OOC thread II-Party still splitting
« Reply #48 on: December 24, 2013, 09:24:26 AM »
Does Mao still have the downloaded map of the facility? We could find a place to override the security systems on the door.
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Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: High-End OOC thread II-Party still splitting
« Reply #49 on: December 24, 2013, 10:59:33 AM »
Wonder if we could just cut our way through the locking mechanisms? Once it's not held shut, forcing it open should be easier.

Amaterasu and Ketaro have got swords. Anyone else got sharp, pointy things?
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Offline ketaro

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Re: High-End OOC thread II-Party still splitting
« Reply #50 on: December 24, 2013, 11:34:52 AM »
Um, I have an ability called "Collateral Damage" that might work?
Like, seriously.

*cough*320 to 640 (average~max) damage to inanimate objects in a single round (before 1/2 hardness ignored)*cough*
.....On top of probably being able to moderately negate the automatic, stupidly fast repairing nanobot things the building seems to have (at least from what I saw in the last fight with the floor unmelting itself every other round) 'Probably' was right, as I guess I can't do both simultaneously....minor details.

I guess as a (space) pirate hunter, breaking and entering into secret hideouts is a good skill to have.

A real Edit: If I feel like using a maneuver.....I can double that damage <.<
« Last Edit: December 24, 2013, 11:49:36 AM by ketaro »

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: High-End OOC thread II-Party still splitting
« Reply #51 on: December 24, 2013, 11:52:00 AM »
You have an ability for smashing buildings? Handy. I guess, once she's there, Amaterasu would ask her to break in, once she decided she couldn't just run through the door? XD

And the maneuver would make certain that there is no door, which... helps.
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Offline Anomander

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Re: High-End OOC thread II-Party still splitting
« Reply #52 on: December 24, 2013, 02:01:44 PM »
Quote
Does Mao still have the downloaded map of the facility? We could find a place to override the security systems on the door.
She doesn't have a map. Just a few coordinates. She can monitor the movements of whats going on inside but doesn't actually see anything.

Offline oslecamo

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Re: High-End OOC thread II-Party still splitting
« Reply #53 on: December 25, 2013, 08:03:13 PM »
Hope everybody had a great Christmas day!

Quote
As already said, the dolls count as you when making the attacks, except for the weapon they're wielding. So they would need youkai blades of their own.
I understood that part, which is why I asked if weapon requirements for channeled maneuvers had to be fulfilled by the puppeteer or by the puppets. As in, since you meet the maneuver's requirements, you can channel the effect through the puppet.
Some disciplines require a feat (all forbidden disciplines do), Riverside View requires that you aren't a construct, Divine Flame requires fire immunity and Ancient Temple also requires the use of very specific weapons.
Your answer suggests that the dolls are the one that must meet the requirements to channel effects, so they cannot channel Riverside View maneuvers, cannot channel Divine Flame maneuvers unless they somehow get fire immunity and cannot channel Ancient Temple unless they get a youkai blade somehow (maybe off some defeated Ancient Temple adepts).
Since they need any material requirement to channel effects, I imagine they also need all the material components and foci required by any spell channeled through them. If such is the case it sounds like something important to point out in the Puppeteer Theater stance description, since the caster can't just do the somatic/vocal components and offer the material/focus component to have the doll just channel the spell's effect.
It's not all requirements-just weapon requirements. A doll could use Divine Flame maneuvers that don't demand a control rod (so I guess dolls could channel Ancient Temple maneuvers that don't perform attacks with youkai-forged blades).

Been thinking.

In PS lore the government seem to also be the Administration (though sometimes they seem to be two different divisions of authority on Pioneer 2). But I doubt that government is also meant to be the Government (as per this campaign's setting).

If I got it right it goes as follow, at least in this campaign:

Androids take over Parum during their rebellion. They forge an alliance with other planets. The alliance negotiates with the Government (that pretty much covers all the colonies) to be allowed to peacefully claim and colonize Ragol as part of some kind of expansion project (sensibly logical considering Parum's usage of space has been over-optimized, that one of the planet is a massive aquapark and that the other is a pretty shitty place to live in). Government officials, being pretty much everywhere to prevent inter-conflicts, would thus also be on Ragol.
The Android Organization (not the alliance) put the second colonization project on hiatus after some incident happened.
Why the AAdmin is in charge and not the actual alliance seems to imply that although the alliance made the deal to settle on Ragol, only Parum gets to enjoy it.
There is a military (which belongs to the alliance?) but instead of using it they rely on the services of the Hunter's Guild (maybe they aren't qualified or available enough for the task).

It's a bit complicated.
-Parum's military might is considerably greater than both Nudaiz or Moatoob's own combined forces. Altough the Administration doesn't directly threaten  the use of force, they still use real politik of "Accept those terms or we may be forced to deploy our space fleets and warbots to pound you until you do." The current alliance mostly consists of the Android Administration receiving raw resources and providing specialized tech and military protection in return. So yes, when the alliance finally got permission to colonize, the Android Administration basically said "Parum's population gets priority, you other planets may send some of your people during the third colonization wave or later depending on the conditions". And then when things went wrong, it was also the Android Administration deciding to freeze the 2nd wave. Nudaiz and Moatoob however did politely refuse to send any help to try to figure out what's wrong, basically saying "Parum's people colonizing first, Parum people should solve the first problems, call us again if you change your mind".

-Each planet keeps their own independent army. There's some officer exchange/mentorship programs between them, but otherwise they mostly act separate, with Parum taking care of most heavy duty of system patroling and protecting from space pirates and raiders. There are clauses in the alliance for them to work togheter should a bigger threat appear, but so far that didn't come up.

-For problems directly connected to the government, the military usually goes first. When they fail, or simply aren't dealing with the problem fast enough, the Hunter's Guild is called in. However, no commander likes to admit their own military screwed up, so they usually cover it up with some excuse like "We're busy with something else" or "We need to keep this area safe and thus can't leave", and then send in the Hunter's Guild to clean the mess. Military screw ups are rarely revealed to the public, and when they are, they're severly downplayed. And of course sometimes you just need some more "qualified". :p


Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: High-End OOC thread II-Party still splitting
« Reply #54 on: December 25, 2013, 08:27:00 PM »
And where does our ragtag group fit into these politics? :O

EDIT: ... and I have now realised Amaterasu is about six hundred years old. Yet still has no Wisdom. XD
« Last Edit: December 25, 2013, 08:44:25 PM by Raineh Daze »
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Offline oslecamo

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Re: High-End OOC thread II-Party still splitting
« Reply #55 on: December 25, 2013, 09:06:06 PM »
And where does our ragtag group fit into these politics? :O

Wherever you choose of course. :P

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: High-End OOC thread II-Party still splitting
« Reply #56 on: December 25, 2013, 09:07:57 PM »
TIME TO CARVE A NEW FACTION.

Or just carve.

Swords are handy like that.
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Offline Anomander

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Re: High-End OOC thread II-Party still splitting
« Reply #57 on: December 26, 2013, 09:14:25 AM »
I think this year is the first time I've properly celebrated Christmas in quite a while. Been pretty amazing. Moving on to New Years' eve! Wishin' everyone some happy holidays.

===

Thanks for the deeper setting info. Pretty neat.

Quote
It's not all requirements-just weapon requirements. A doll could use Divine Flame maneuvers that don't demand a control rod (so I guess dolls could channel Ancient Temple maneuvers that don't perform attacks with youkai-forged blades).
Alright. If the medium is needed then I'm not sure why the right weapons are needed and not the spell components but it's your thing. It might be a good idea to specify those channeling guidelines in the stance description for other players.
At least that answers my less direct question of whether you can or not use unarmed puppets to channel Plain History maneuvers while you are armed.

@Raineh:
Quote
And where does our ragtag group fit into these politics? :O

TIME TO CARVE A NEW FACTION.
Hunters are highly mercenarial so they are a faction of their own. If you want to make a new one apart from the Hunters, whatever resistance movements are out there and all governments, then I would love to know your faction's ideology.
Easier to get a high rank when you get on board early.  ;)
As long as it isn't all about saving a few chosen ones by eliminating everyone else. With or without the provocation of a few supernovas/blackholes.

Quote
EDIT: ... and I have now realised Amaterasu is about six hundred years old. Yet still has no Wisdom.
XD
That's perfectly normal. I'm sure she looks back every hundred years and wonders where all the years went.

As for me I'm dealing with the idea that Mao's body has become sort of a Theseus's paradox over time so the concern is more over the philosophical question of exactly when she began to exist, if she did, than exactly how old one could say that she is.  :huh

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: High-End OOC thread II-Party still splitting
« Reply #58 on: December 26, 2013, 10:19:02 AM »
Nah, if she looks back over the past 100, she'll be depressed at how little happened and how long it took. 100 years  of  peace is just wrong to her. :p
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Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: High-End OOC thread II-Party still splitting
« Reply #59 on: December 26, 2013, 09:07:11 PM »
I just noticed Monster of Legend ignores half DR with its attacks. Does that refer to Natural Attacks only, or all attacks? Because that's kind of handy to remember against mecha. :lmao
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