Author Topic: Commander [Base]  (Read 1577 times)

Offline Stratovarius

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Commander [Base]
« on: November 17, 2015, 01:17:47 PM »
Commander

"Follow me, and I shall lead you to glory!"
- Excasard the Brilliant, Human Commander


Sometimes it is not enough to be a conquering warrior, a champion of all that’s right, an experienced sellsword, or an elite foot soldier. Sometimes the circumstances require a solid commander of soldiers and situations. Sometimes the circumstances demand a Commander. Commanders inspire trust in those they lead. They earn that trust by slogging through harsh landscapes, dangerous battlefields, and haunted catacombs along with those under their command. With a look, they can see where to best deploy their resources or come up with a sneaky ruse to fool their enemies. A Commander has a tactician’s mind, a cartographer’s overview of the disputed landscape (or dungeon warren), and a way with words that can inspire battle-hardened fighters to give it their all when melee breaks out.

Making a Commander
Commanders come to their profession through study and desire. Most have had formal training in a noble’s army, where they were given positions of authority. Others have trained in formal academies, preparing themselves for careers as a military officers. Commanders see others of their class as part of a special group, especially those they have studied with. Even enemy Commanders can be afforded some respect, though the enemy’s forces must be crushed all the same.

Abilities: Charisma.

Races: Commander appear amongst all races, for their talents are widespread.

Alignment: Commander can be of any alignment, and there is no bias in any one direction.

Table 1: The Commander

Level  BAB   Ref   Fort  Will  Abilities                             Cohorts
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1      +0    +0    +2    +2    Cohorts, Commander Aura               1
2      +1    +1    +3    +3    Warden, Aid Them All                  1
3      +2    +1    +3    +3    Ability Boon                          1
4      +3    +2    +4    +4    Grant Move Action, Commander's Boon   1
5      +3    +2    +4    +4    Seal the Breach                       1
6      +4    +3    +5    +5    Ability Boon                          2
7      +5    +3    +5    +5    Rapid Refocus, Commander's Boon       2
8      +6    +2    +6    +6    Grant Move Action                     2
9      +6    +3    +6    +6    Ability Boon                          2
10     +7    +3    +7    +7    Commander Aura, Commander's Boon      2
11     +8    +3    +7    +7    When the Moment Calls                 3
12     +9    +4    +8    +8    Ability Boon, Grant Move Action       3
13     +9    +4    +8    +8    Commander's Boon                      3
14     +10   +4    +9    +9    Redirected Spell                      3
15     +11   +5    +9    +9    Ability Boon                          3
16     +12   +5    +10   +10   Grant Move Action, Commander's Boon   4
17     +12   +5    +10   +10   Instant Refocus                       4
18     +13   +6    +11   +11   Ability Boon                          4
19     +14   +6    +11   +11   Commander's Boon                      4
20     +15   +6    +12   +12   Grant Move Action, Commander Aura     4


Table 2: Spells Per Day

Level  1st  2nd  3rd  4th  5th  6th
-----------------------------------
1      0    —    —    —    —    —
2      0    —    —    —    —    —
3      1    —    —    —    —    —
4      2    0    —    —    —    —
5      3    1    —    —    —    —
6      3    2    —    —    —    —
7      3    2    0    —    —    —
8      3    3    1    —    —    —
9      3    3    2    —    —    —
10     3    3    2    0    —    —
11     3    3    3    1    —    —
12     3    3    3    2    —    —
13     3    3    3    2    0    —
14     3    3    3    3    1    —
15     4    3    3    3    2    —
16     4    4    3    3    2    0
17     4    4    4    3    3    1
18     4    4    4    4    3    2
19     4    4    4    4    4    3
20     4    4    4    4    4    4


Table 3: Psionic Focus

Level  Power Points/Day  Powers Known  Maximum Power Level
----------------------------------------------------------
1      0                 1             1
2      1                 2             1
3      3                 2             1
4      5                 3             2
5      7                 3             2
6      11                4             2
7      15                4             3
8      19                5             3
9      23                5             3
10     27                6             4
11     35                6             4
12     43                7             4
13     51                7             5
14     59                8             5
15     67                8             5
16     79                9             6
17     91                9             6
18     103               10            6
19     115               10            6
20     127               11            6


Table 4: Combat Focus

Level  Maneuvers Known  Maneuvers Readied  Maximum Maneuver Level
-----------------------------------------------------------------
1      1                1                  1
2      1                1                  1
3      2                1                  1
4      2                1                  2
5      3                2                  2
6      3                2                  2
7      4                2                  3
8      4                2                  3
9      5                3                  3
10     5                3                  4
11     6                3                  4
12     6                3                  4
13     7                4                  5
14     7                4                  5
15     8                4                  5
16     8                4                  6
17     9                5                  6
18     9                5                  6
19     10               5                  6
20     10               5                  6


Game Rule Information
Commanders have the following game statistics.

Alignment: Any
Hit Die: d8
Starting Gold: 5d4 x 10 (125 gp)
Starting Age: Complex (as wizard)

Class skills
Bluff (Cha), Diplomacy (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (Int), Listen (Wis), Perform (Cha), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Speak Language (n/a), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), and Swim (Str).
Skill Points at 1st level: (4 + Int modifier) x 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier

Class Features
Trained in the basics of fighting, Commanders possess a general knowledge of weapons and armor. Their real strength is their ability to lead those who follow them to success they might not otherwise reach in combat. Commanders make passable warriors themselves, when personal danger finds them.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency
Commanders are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, with all types of armor (heavy, medium, and light), and with shields (except tower shields).

Cohorts (Ex)
A commander is always surrounded by a number of highly skilled individuals, ones he has shaped and taught throughout their career, and who owe everything to him. Is it on these men and women that he focuses his abilities, although there are lesser benefits for those other allies who have chosen to follow his lead. At 1st level, the commander gains a single cohort. At 2nd level and beyond, he assigns to them one of the foci listed below at the beginning of each day. Treat any cohort before assigning a foci as a commoner (of any LA 0 race) with levels equal to the commander's class level -2 (minimum level 1) and the elite array. If the commander lose a cohort, he may find another by taking a week to intensively search for one (taking no other actions during that time). Assigning foci to his cohorts requires the commander having a deep and instructive conversation with all of them for one hour, after which they gain the foci he has chosen for them for twenty four hours or until he decides to change it. At 5th level, the commander can change a single cohort's focus one time per day, with a further additional use every 5 levels (10, 15, 20). All cohorts who use the arcane focus or divine focus ability must still obey the normal rules for preparing spells (including any rest required). The commander gains another cohort at 6th, 11th, and 16th level. Otherwise, treat as per the leadership feat. The commander cannot gain cohorts via other means (leadership feat, thrallherd class, etc.).
  • Arcane Focus: The chosen cohort gains the ability to prepare and cast arcane spells, which may be chosen from the wizard spell list. He prepares and casts these spells just as a wizard does, including the use of a spellbook (Commander's cohorts often use stolen or borrowed spellbooks; see page 178 of the Player's Handbook for details). His spells per day are noted on Table 2. He gains bonus spells for a high Intelligence score, just as a wizard does. When Table 2 indicates that he get 0 spells per day of a given spell level, he gains only the bonus spells he would be entitled to based on his Intelligence score for that spell level. His caster level is equal to his character level. He also gains a +2 competence bonus on Knowledge (arcana) checks and Spellcraft checks and a +2 bonus on Will saves. These bonuses improve by +2 every 4 cohort levels (at 4th, 8th, 12th, and 16th).
  • Combat Focus: The chosen cohort gains proficiency with all martial and exotic weapons, increases his maximum hit points by +3 per cohort level, and increases his base attack bonus to that of a fighter. He gains a +2 bonus on Fortitude saves, and chooses one of the following: a +2 bonus on attack rolls, a +2 bonus on weapon damage rolls, or damage reduction 2/-. All of these bonuses (including the damage reduction) improve by +2 every 4 cohort levels (at 4th, 8th, 12th, and 16th). He then chooses one of the following:
    • Combatant: At 1st level, he gains a bonus feat, chosen from the list of fighter bonus feats. He must meet the prerequisites for this feat. At 4th, 8th, 12th, and 16th level, he gains an additional bonus feat.
    • Initiator: He gains access to a single martial discipline (See Tome of Battle). His initiator level is equal to his cohort level, while his maneuvers known, readied, and the maximum level known are all given on Table 4. He recovers maneuvers as a Warblade does.
  • Divine Focus: The chosen cohort gains the ability to prepare and cast divine spells, which may be chosen from the cleric spell list. He prepares and casts these spells just as a cleric does, except that he cannot spontaneously cast spells. He can only prepare new divine spells at sunrise. His spells per day are noted on Table 2. He gains bonus spells for a high Wisdom score, just as a cleric does. When Table 2 indicates that he gets 0 spells per day of a given spell level, he gains only the bonus spells he would be entitled to based on his Wisdom score for that spell level. His caster level is equal to his cohort level. He also gains a +2 competence bonus on Knowledge (religion) checks and a +2 bonus on Fortitude and Will saves. These bonuses improve by +2 every 4 cohort levels (at 4th, 8th, 12th, and 16th).
  • Stealth Focus: The chosen cohort increases his maximum hit points by +1 per cohort level, and gains trapfinding (see page 50 of the Player's Handbook), uncanny dodge (see page 26 of the Player's Handbook), a +2 competence bonus on Disable Device, Hide, Move Silently, Open Lock, and Search checks, and a +2 bonus on Reflex saves. These bonuses improve by +2 every 4 cohort levels (at 4th, 8th, 12th, and 16th). He gains Sneak Attack +1d6 for every three cohort levels (1, 3, 6, 9, 12, 15, 18). At 1st level, he gains the ability to go invisible twice per day. At 4th level, he gains two additional uses and treat his invisibility as invisibility, greater. At 8th level, he gains two additional uses and can become ethereal. These effects last for one round per point of competence bonus. At 12th level, he gains Hide in Plain Sight (as per the shadowdancer ability). At 16th level, he ignore any immunity a creature might have that prevents sneak attacks or similar effects.
  • Wild Focus: The chosen cohort increases his maximum hit points by +2 per cohort level, and gains wild empathy (see page 35 of the Player's Handbook; treat his druid level as equal to his cohort level), woodland stride (see page 36 of the Player's Handbook), a +2 competence bonus on Climb, Handle Animal, Jump, Knowledge (nature), and Survival checks, and a +2 bonus on Fortitude saves. These bonuses improve by +2 every 4 cohort levels (at 4th, 8th, 12th, and 16th). In addition, he may choose either the following Favoured Enemy or Wild Shape ability.
    • Favoured Enemy: choose a favoured enemy, as per the ranger class ability, at 1st level. At 4th, 8th, 12th, and 16th, choose an additional favoured enemy. The bonus against favoured enemies is equal to the bonus on Fortitude saves this ability provides.
    • Wild Shape: At 4th level, the cohort gains Wild Shape, as per the druid class ability, useable twice per day. At 8th level, he gains two additional uses of Wild Shape, and the ability to change into Large, Tiny, or Plant creatures. At 12th level, he gains two additional uses of Wild Shape, and the ability to change into Huge creatures. At 16th level, he gains two additional uses of Wild Shape, and the ability to change into Elemental, and Huge Elemental creatures.
  • Psionic Focus: The chosen cohort gains the ability to learn and manifest powers, which are chosen from the psion power list (this does not given him access to discipline powers). He manifests these powers just as a psion of his level does. His power points/day and powers known are indicated on Table 3. He gains bonus power points for a high Intelligence score, just as a psion does. His manifester level is equal to his cohort level. Once he has chosen his powers known for the day, even if he subsequently refocus his aptitude, they remain his powers known until the next day. He also gains a +2 competence bonus on Autohypnosis, Knowledge (psionics), and Psicraft checks and a +2 bonus on Will saves. These bonuses improve by +2 every 4 cohort levels (at 4th, 8th, 12th, and 16th).
Commander Aura (Su)
The commander exerts an effect on allies in his vicinity. He can learn to produce different effects, or auras, over the course of his career. Projecting an aura is a swift action, and he can only project one aura at a time. An aura remains in effect until he uses a free action to dismiss it or he activates another aura in its place. He can have an aura active continually; thus, an aura can be in effect at the start of an encounter even before he takes his first turn. Unless otherwise noted, his aura affects all allies within 60 feet (including himself) with line of effect to him. His aura is dismissed if he becomes unconscious or is slain, but otherwise it remains in effect even if he is incapable of acting. The bonus granted by the aura is equal to the commander's charisma modifier or his class level, whichever is lower. A 1st-level commander knows how to project three auras chosen from the list below. At every odd-numbered level after that, he learns one additional aura. At 10th level, he can activate a second aura, and at 20th level, a third.
  • Energy Shield: Any creature striking the commander or his ally with a natural attack or a nonreach melee weapon is dealt 2 points of energy damage for each point of his aura bonus. The energy type is chosen when creating the aura from acid, cold, electricity, or fire.
  • Power: Bonus on melee damage rolls equal to his aura bonus.
  • Presence: Bonus on Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate checks equal to his aura bonus. Also, any creature viewing someone affected by the aura must make a Will save against DC 10 + 1/2 commander level + commander's charisma modifier or be fascinated until he can no longer see anyone under the effect of this aura.
  • Resistance: Resistance to acid, cold, electricity, or fire damage equal to 5 for every two points of his aura bonus (min 5).
  • Senses: Bonus on Listen and Spot checks, as well as on initiative checks, equal to his aura bonus. In addition, all creatures under the effect of this aura receive a bonus on saves against dazzling, blindness, and deafeness equal to 2 per point of aura bonus.
  • Toughness: DR 1/magic for each point of his aura bonus.
  • Vigor: Fast healing 1 for every 2 points of his aura bonus, but only affects characters at or below one-half their full normal hit points.
  • Attack: Bonus on melee attack rolls.
  • Care: Bonus to Armor Class.
  • Urgency: Allies’ base land speed is increased 5' for every two points of his aura bonus (min 5').
  • Resilient Troops: Bonus on all saves equal to 1 for every two points of his aura bonus (min 1).
  • Steady Hand: Bonus on ranged attack rolls.
  • Accuracy: Bonus on ranged damage rolls equal to his aura bonus.
  • Alliance: If an ally makes an attack of opportunity against an enemy, one other allied creature per two points of aura bonus in melee range of the enemy may make a free attack against that creature with a -4 penalty. The commander chooses which creature.
  • Dogpile: If an ally successfully critical hits an enemy, one other allied creature per two points of aura bonus in melee range of the enemy may make a free attack against that creature with a -4 penalty. The commander chooses which creature.
  • Transfer of Power: Allied magic users in the aura receive a +1 bonus to caster level (or appropriate) for every 4 points of aura bonus.
  • Resist the Inevitable: Allies in the aura gain spell resistance equal to 10 + 2 per point of aura bonus.
  • Countering Blows: All allies in the aura are treated as if they had the Combat Reflexes feat, except the number of Attacks of Opportunity is increased by 1 for every 4 points of aura bonus.
Warden (Su)
Born with the desire to protect their people, a commander always knows where they are. He gains a +20 circumstance bonus on Listen and Spot checks to hear and see allies. At 9th level, his senses are honed so finely that he is aware of the location and status (as with the status spell) of all allies within 100 feet per class level, even if they are not within sight.

Aid Them All (Ex)
As a standard action, make a DC 10 commander aura check (1d20 + your commander aura bonus). If you succeed, increase your commander aura bonus by 2 for 1 round.

Ability Boon (Ex)
At 3rd level, when choosing a focus for a cohort, the commander may grant that cohort a +2 competence bonus to an ability score of the commander's choice. This bonus lasts until the commander changes his cohort's focus. Every 3 commander levels after that (6, 9, 12, 15, 18), the bonus increases by +2. If desired, the commander can split this bonus in half and apply it to two different ability scores of the cohort (thus, at 4th level, it would be +1 to two different scores).

Grant Move Action (Ex)
Starting at 4th level, a commander can direct and motivate his cohorts to act immediately. Once per day, as a standard action, he may grant an extra move action to all of his cohorts within 60 feet. Each of the affected cohorts takes this extra move action immediately, acting in their current initiative order. This extra action does not affect the cohorts’ initiative count; the round continues normally after the commander’s turn is over. (This may mean, for example, that an ally whose initiative count immediately follows the commander’s may get an extra move action from the commander, followed directly by a full round worth of actions on the ally’s turn.) At 8th level, a commander gains the ability to grant an extra move action to his cohorts twice per day. The frequency increases to three times per day at 12th level, four times per day at 16th level, and five times per day at 20th level.

Commander's Boon (Su)
At 4th level, the commander gains the ability to grant certain abilities to all allies currently under the effect of its aura as a standard action (unless mentioned otherwise). Once per day, he can grant any of the class features described below. Every 3 levels after that (7, 10, 13, 16, 19) he gains one additional use (either to grant the same ability, or a different ability).
  • Evasion: As an immediate action, the commander grants his allies evasion for one minute.
  • Rage: The commander grants his allies the benefits of the barbarian's rage ability, for 1 round plus 1 round per point of (newly improved) constitution modifier.
  • Smite: The commander grants his allies the benefits of the paladin's smite ability for 1 round. They may add their Charisma bonus (if any) to the attack roll and deal 1 extra point of damage per character level.
  • Sudden Strike: The commander grants his allies the ability to deal an extra 1d6 points of damage per two character levels any time the target would be denied its Dexterity bonus. This lasts for one round.
  • Skirmish: The commander grants his allies (for one round) the ability to deal an extra 1d6 points of damage on all attacks they make during any round in which they move at least 10 feet away from where they were at the start of your turn. The extra damage applies only to attacks made after they have moved at least 10 feet. The skirmish ability cannot be used while mounted. The extra damage applies only to attacks taken during their turn. This extra damage increases by 1d6 for every four character levels gained above 1st (2d6 at 5th, 3d6 at 9th, 4d6 at 13th, and 5d6 at 17th level). The extra damage only applies against living creatures that have a discernible anatomy. Undead, constructs, oozes, plants, incorporeal creatures, and creatures immune to extra damage from critical hits are not vulnerable to this additional damage. The affected allies must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. They can apply this extra damage to ranged attacks made while skirmishing, but only if the target is within 30 feet. At their 3rd character level, they gain a +1 competence bonus to Armor Class during any round in which they move at least 10 feet. The bonus applies as soon as they have moved 10 feet, and lasts until the start of their next turn. This bonus improves by 1 for every four levels gained above 3rd (+2 at 7th, +3 at 11th, +4 at 15th, and +5 at 19th level). They cannot use this ability when wearing medium or heavy armor or when carrying a medium or heavy load.
Seal the Breach (Su)
A number of times per day equal to his charisma modifier, a commander can reposition a cohort in order to plug an opening on the battlefield. A cohort under his command is teleported from its current position, which must be within 100 feet per class level, to a square of the commander's choosing, no more than 30 feet from the commander. The square must be unoccupied, and it must not present any danger to the teleported creature. This is a standard action to use.

Rapid Refocus (Ex)
At 7th level, the commander gains the ability to change a cohort's focus in only 10 minutes.

When the Moment Calls (Su)
The commander, as any good general, can sense the moment when a battle is about to turn. The commander can grant a full round action to one cohort under his command once per encounter. That cohort takes his actions immediately. This is a standard action to activate.

Redirected Spell (Su)
Any time the commander is the target of a single target beneficial spell, he may forgo the benefits of that spell to have it affect all allies within range of his aura. In each case, treat the spell as if it had been cast normally.

Instant Refocus (Ex)
At 17th level, the commander gains the ability to change a cohort's focus in only 1 full round.

Focused Choice
Prerequisites: Aptitude Focus ability, character level 6
Benefit: You increase the bonuses granted by a single aptitude focus by +2.
Special: You can take this feat multiple times. Each time it applies to a different aptitude focus.

Commander's Will
Prerequisites: Commander, Marshal, Dragon Shaman, Overlord, or similar aura ability, character level 6
Benefit: You increase your aura bonus for your auras by +1

By My Guiding Hand
Prerequisites: Commander, Marshal, Dragon Shaman, Overlord, or similar aura ability
Benefit: Allies who are adjacent to one another and under the effect of an aura you have created gain a +1 bonus to AC. Should you be adjacent to an ally, you do not gain the bonus, but they do. Allies who are flat-footed do not gain the benefits, and do not count as adjacent. Alternately, as a swift action you may choose to change the benefits from this to a +1 bonus to attack, losing the +1 bonus to AC for one round. All conditions still apply.

Ability Upon Command
Prerequisites: Ability Boon ability
Benefit: You increase the ability bonus granted by your class feature by +2.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2017, 01:59:25 PM by Stratovarius »

Offline Nanshork

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Re: Commander [Base]
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2015, 01:35:54 PM »
Party in a can.

I don't see any way of getting more cohorts after the first one.  Am I missing something?

Also, why don't cohorts get a bonus improvement at 20th level?  You say every fourth and then stop at 16.

Offline Stratovarius

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Re: Commander [Base]
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2015, 01:39:34 PM »
Party in a can.

I don't see any way of getting more cohorts after the first one.  Am I missing something?

Also, why don't cohorts get a bonus improvement at 20th level?  You say every fourth and then stop at 16.

Check the table - you get up to 4 cohorts. Cohorts don't get to 20th level - they max out at 18th, because their level is yours -2. And all of the focus abilities are predicated on their level, not the commander's, hence the 16th cap.

Edit: to speed things up at the table, I think i'd probably change the hit dice change to this: "Increase the cohort's maximum hit points by +3 per hit die". It's just faster to calculate.

And for the curious, this was built out of my Chameleon base class, the Marshal, my Overlord base class, Dragon Shaman, and a few custom abilities. Obviously with much editing to the donor abilities as well.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2015, 01:46:56 PM by Stratovarius »

Offline Nanshork

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Re: Commander [Base]
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2015, 10:38:45 PM »
Party in a can.

I don't see any way of getting more cohorts after the first one.  Am I missing something?

Also, why don't cohorts get a bonus improvement at 20th level?  You say every fourth and then stop at 16.

Check the table - you get up to 4 cohorts. Cohorts don't get to 20th level - they max out at 18th, because their level is yours -2. And all of the focus abilities are predicated on their level, not the commander's, hence the 16th cap.

Edit: to speed things up at the table, I think i'd probably change the hit dice change to this: "Increase the cohort's maximum hit points by +3 per hit die". It's just faster to calculate.

And for the curious, this was built out of my Chameleon base class, the Marshal, my Overlord base class, Dragon Shaman, and a few custom abilities. Obviously with much editing to the donor abilities as well.

Apparently I didn't look further right than the class abilities column.

You should probably specify somewhere that the focus abilities are based off of cohort level, I was assuming that they were Commander level.  Anytime I see the phrase "character level" I assume PC.

I like the change away from rerolling cohort HP every day.

Offline Stratovarius

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Re: Commander [Base]
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2015, 06:51:08 AM »
Apparently I didn't look further right than the class abilities column.

You should probably specify somewhere that the focus abilities are based off of cohort level, I was assuming that they were Commander level.  Anytime I see the phrase "character level" I assume PC.

I like the change away from rerolling cohort HP every day.

A class like this having just one cohort wouldn't be much fun. I do need to put in something about not being able to take leadership feats, etc. Because right now it's feasible to stack Wild Cohort and (Undead) Leadership on top of the existing abilities. For those moments when you need even more cohorts.

I'll try and make it clearer, but all of the character level references are specific to the cohorts, while class level ones are about the commander's class level. Which does mean this class (like the Overlord it shares a moderate amount with) has a trip point at 6th level - in this case getting a second cohort, and those cohorts getting their second batch of power boosts.

Rerolling every morning was just going to be a pain. Whereas the simple math should take a couple seconds a cohort now. Annoyingly, just like the Walker in the Wastes and Chameleon base class, I'll never actually get to play this guy. :shakefist

I'm guessing he fits in at Tier 3 on the Tier system?

Offline Nanshork

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Re: Commander [Base]
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2015, 01:11:24 PM »
Apparently I didn't look further right than the class abilities column.

You should probably specify somewhere that the focus abilities are based off of cohort level, I was assuming that they were Commander level.  Anytime I see the phrase "character level" I assume PC.

I like the change away from rerolling cohort HP every day.

A class like this having just one cohort wouldn't be much fun. I do need to put in something about not being able to take leadership feats, etc. Because right now it's feasible to stack Wild Cohort and (Undead) Leadership on top of the existing abilities. For those moments when you need even more cohorts.

I'll try and make it clearer, but all of the character level references are specific to the cohorts, while class level ones are about the commander's class level. Which does mean this class (like the Overlord it shares a moderate amount with) has a trip point at 6th level - in this case getting a second cohort, and those cohorts getting their second batch of power boosts.

Rerolling every morning was just going to be a pain. Whereas the simple math should take a couple seconds a cohort now. Annoyingly, just like the Walker in the Wastes and Chameleon base class, I'll never actually get to play this guy. :shakefist

I'm guessing he fits in at Tier 3 on the Tier system?

Something like: At 1st level, the commander gains a single cohort, and assigns to them one of the focii listed below at the beginning of each day. (For the focii, character level refers to the cohort's level and not the commander's.)

It's probably Tier 2 or even 1 because you can get a wizard and a cleric and two other people and that's two tier one's already, even if they are two levels behind you.

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Re: Commander [Base]
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2015, 01:31:38 PM »
Something like: At 1st level, the commander gains a single cohort, and assigns to them one of the focii listed below at the beginning of each day. (For the focii, character level refers to the cohort's level and not the commander's.)

It's probably Tier 2 or even 1 because you can get a wizard and a cleric and two other people and that's two tier one's already, even if they are two levels behind you.

Not sure where you got the notion that this class grants wizard and cleric cohorts, but it specifically says every cohort is a commoner who then gets the focus of choice glued on top. Which puts the casters at adept level. So you can get up to four adepts (Divine, Arcane, or Psionic), or choose from the various other foci, none of which are above Tier 4 either. I can't really see a group of five Tier 4s (the Commander without his cohorts isn't better than a Warmage, for instance) seriously being above Tier 3. There just isn't the level of realm-quaking power necessary, not without the top three spell/power levels.

Offline Nanshork

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Re: Commander [Base]
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2015, 01:50:14 PM »
Something like: At 1st level, the commander gains a single cohort, and assigns to them one of the focii listed below at the beginning of each day. (For the focii, character level refers to the cohort's level and not the commander's.)

It's probably Tier 2 or even 1 because you can get a wizard and a cleric and two other people and that's two tier one's already, even if they are two levels behind you.

Not sure where you got the notion that this class grants wizard and cleric cohorts, but it specifically says every cohort is a commoner who then gets the focus of choice glued on top. Which puts the casters at adept level. So you can get up to four adepts (Divine, Arcane, or Psionic), or choose from the various other foci, none of which are above Tier 4 either. I can't really see a group of five Tier 4s (the Commander without his cohorts isn't better than a Warmage, for instance) seriously being above Tier 3. There just isn't the level of realm-quaking power necessary, not without the top three spell/power levels.

What does a Wizard get that a Commoner doesn't?  Spells, feats, and a familiar.  Only the spells are truly important.  So it gets a Commoner with Wizard casting, this is effectively a wizard.

The Divine focus is all Cleric casting minus the domains and spontaneous casting.

You're right that it's probably not Tier 1, I forgot about the reduced casting.  I still wouldn't put this lower than Tier 2, the casters are significantly better than adepts because they get the full class spell lists with all splat expansions.  And you can have three different types of casters, all at your command as a single character.

And while I understand it's possible, I don't think anyone on this board is going to play a Commander that doesn't have any caster cohorts.  Sometimes I feel like you expect your players to under-optimize a little too much.

Offline Stratovarius

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Re: Commander [Base]
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2015, 02:36:12 PM »
In this case (assuming a 17th level Wizard cohort vs 17th level Commander cohort) - familiar, three feats, 1+ 9th level spells, 2+ 8th, 3+ 7th, 3+ 6th, 1+ 5th, 1+ 4th. The wizard and arcane cohorts are even below that. Cleric, on the other hand, gets domains, turning, and +2 or so more spells per level vs the divine cohort. Psion wrecks the psionic cohort with 3 more power levels, 22 more powers known, 159 more power points, the psycrystal, and three feats.

There isn't a single class in Tier 1 & 2 that doesn't get 9th level spells, and a great deal of ones in Tier 3 that do. And before the action economy comes up, the Dread Necromancer, a class that can accumulate a great deal more "cohorts" than the Commander and has a chassis with 9th level spells (albeit a limited list), is happily sited down in Tier 3. The Commander also has to spread his wealth out over five different "characters", which means the individual quality of gear is going to be worse, including buying spells for his arcane cohort(s) to use, since they get none natively.

So, no, I don't expect players to under-optimize. I simply make the assumption that all characters are optimized to an equal degree when I judge a class's power level. And all of the Tier 1 & 2 classes will outperform a Commander, and several of the Tier 3 classes would do the same, depending on the challenge. A Commander does not have the mobility, battlefield control, or self-protection options of the other classes, in exchange for which he gets his multiple cohorts and a strong aura selection, again, leaving him slotted in right at Tier 3.

Offline Nanshork

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Re: Commander [Base]
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2015, 03:34:44 PM »
The Dread Necromancer's minions don't have spells, and as a class it has a very limited spell list.  Action economy abuse combined with multiple spellcasting minions that use the best spell lists in the game is something that I see as a concern.

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Re: Commander [Base]
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2015, 06:38:59 PM »
Actually, the Dread Necro minions can, via Bone Creature, Spectral Mage, and a few other options, as well as just using command undead via turn undead or spells. It's not as easy as the basic material, but it's certainly doable. There's also the existence of summoners and their planar gated allies, which famously includes the solar and its 18th level cleric casting.

I'm sure a decent amount of CO could be managed with the commander, but i'm confident it's not enough to unbalance the game by comparison to the PHB classes.

Offline Nanshork

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Re: Commander [Base]
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2015, 07:22:47 PM »
It probably needs some field testing which unfortunately you don't get a lot of opportunities for.

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Re: Commander [Base]
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2015, 07:38:56 PM »
It probably needs some field testing which unfortunately you don't get a lot of opportunities for.

Not without running my own campaign. And I'm not going to go beyond two any more.

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Re: Commander [Base]
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2015, 09:05:21 AM »
Cleaned up the text of all the abilities to make it clearer what levels are triggering abilities, as well as some basic formatting.

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Re: Commander [Base]
« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2017, 02:02:14 PM »
Had a lot of discussions with Garryl about this class, as a result a new version is posted.

Major changes are:
Capping aura bonus at class level
Rebalancing all auras
Cohorts cannot get foci until commander level 2
Some feats cannot be taken until level 6
Combat focus benefits reduced