Author Topic: Raging Singing Wildshape?  (Read 1791 times)

Offline adamnsm1

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Raging Singing Wildshape?
« on: December 08, 2015, 06:47:48 AM »
So I was taking a look at Bladesong, and just from the stats it gives you it looks pretty nice to combo with a barbarian's Rage (except for the whole spell thing that wizards have going). Of course, as was pointed out elsewhere in the thread, this is tremendously MAD. However, a lot of the stats you need are physical, so wildshaping would help to get around MAD, and also kinda fits the whole theme of entering into combat mode and running at people. Obviously this wouldn't be a super high tier build, but I was wondering if you guys thought it would be even a little viable. For starters I was thinking Barb 3/Bladesinger 2/Druid 15 to get resistance and as high a wildshape CR as possible; this still gives you access to 9th level spell slots and 8th level druid spells, but unfortunately leaves you with only 3 ASI's. Anyway, curious to hear people's comments/improvements/reasons why this is stupid.

Offline Nunkuruji

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Re: Raging Singing Wildshape?
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2015, 11:03:50 AM »
It seems legal to use that together.

Practically, your bonus action is competing for Rage, Bladesong and Wild Shape(moon: action or bonus) . So there is a large windup to getting everything running in a combat.

Look at what wild shape advancement / forms you are impeding progress or giving up in comparison to the benefit of bladesong. AC is eye catcher, but there's more to consider.

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Raging Singing Wildshape?
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2015, 03:41:58 PM »
hmm ... You have enough Wildshape time
to handle any # of interruptions of WS.
And the combo of Bear 3 with the normal
WS hit point buffer, seems quite tasty.

The toggle between a Druid Conc buff
and ditching it for Rage, is probably key.
(and a party Haste for good behavior)

If anything the plan would be to Rage first
and Conc buff secondarily, and kite on
those few occasions when say metaphorically
a druid was caught with their pants down.
(because ws and pants are ...)

I don't think Bladesong would do all that much
for any time spent kiting.  Personally, if WS is
the majority time thing, then GOO'Lock 1 can
provide the missing social interaction ; Lock 2
is that much more obvious for any kiting time.

Perhaps subbing Bladesong in there and ditching
the Rage part, could work.  Same kind of idea tho'
Wiz 2 / Lock 2 / Moon 12+ , dump physical stats.

 :???
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Offline sambojin

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Re: Raging Singing Wildshape?
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2015, 12:09:48 AM »
The Bear totem is "better" at lvl 3 for the damage resistances, but I still like Eagle. Bonus action dash is like having Expeditious Retreat cast on you every time you Rage. Sometimes movement is very important. It helps that your movement happens to also include spider climbing, burrowing, swimming or flying, more or less at will. Plus, you big raging Barbarian Giant Eagle! You grapple good, fly high. Splat goes thingy!

It's kind of like how I prefer 2 Monk levels as a Moon Druid, rather than the 3 Barb levels. There's just more cool stuff to do. You can do a bit of Flurry Nova'ing (which is quite nice as any high strength or dex Wildshape form), or some other stuff occasionally that is very useful when you need it. Plus it's permanent Longstrider, which is a thing (even as a Killer Whale or Giant Octopus).

Both are advantageous. While Barb adds more total damage each Rage, Monk Flurry works with virtually all Wildshape forms for about the same amount of damage for those two ki-use rounds each rest. Your Wis will always be high as a Druid, but your Con and Strength change constantly due to Wildshape.

Plus, martial arts works fine when not in Wildshape. It may in fact work very well with Shillelagh cast and a club or quarterstaff being wielded. But it works without any spellcasting flaws, and costs no resources. And you happen to be an awesome caster when you run out of bear-juice, so probably should spend a bit of time in caster form too. Even if it is just to buff yourself before you start punching things. Or casting Pass without Trace.

I personally don't rate Bladesong at all. Well, not in comparison to AniMonk or AniBarb alone.

For the long term, what would you rather. A Druid 18/Monk 2 with a minor dex necessity, or what you put above? I'm not putting your idea down, it is an actual question.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2015, 12:34:56 AM by sambojin »

Offline sambojin

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Re: Raging Singing Wildshape?
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2015, 12:55:10 AM »
If you really (and I mean really) want to blow 5 levels of Druidic awesome on other stuff, I'd do this:

Druid (Moon) 15/ Cleric (Arcana) 1/ Monk 2/ Fighter 2. Not in that order, but you know how you want your character to progress better than I.

You get martial arts and flurry and longstrider'd WS and wisdom armour. You get action-surge-nova-death and can use any weapon if a juicy one turns up (better than a mega-wis-magic-stick). All your level 1 spells get replaced/prepared by their cleric'y equivalents, meaning you have a heap of good druid spells prepared at all times, plus some cantrip'y goodness. You are also a lvl 15 Moon Druid, this is good too. All for a 13 dex requirement and a tonne of always useful wisdom.

That's way better for 5 off-spec levels in my opinion. Pretty good WS with novas, and awesome casting, with no real MAD requirements.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2015, 01:04:58 AM by sambojin »

Offline Shadowhunter

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Re: Raging Singing Wildshape?
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2015, 12:17:57 PM »
If you're a Monk/Druid using Wildshape and Flurry of Blows, it really should be called Furry of Blows...

. . . I'll see myself out.

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Offline adamnsm1

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Re: Raging Singing Wildshape?
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2015, 03:49:06 PM »
The Bear totem is "better" at lvl 3 for the damage resistances, but I still like Eagle. Bonus action dash is like having Expeditious Retreat cast on you every time you Rage. Sometimes movement is very important. It helps that your movement happens to also include spider climbing, burrowing, swimming or flying, more or less at will. Plus, you big raging Barbarian Giant Eagle! You grapple good, fly high. Splat goes thingy!

It's kind of like how I prefer 2 Monk levels as a Moon Druid, rather than the 3 Barb levels. There's just more cool stuff to do. You can do a bit of Flurry Nova'ing (which is quite nice as any high strength or dex Wildshape form), or some other stuff occasionally that is very useful when you need it. Plus it's permanent Longstrider, which is a thing (even as a Killer Whale or Giant Octopus).

Both are advantageous. While Barb adds more total damage each Rage, Monk Flurry works with virtually all Wildshape forms for about the same amount of damage for those two ki-use rounds each rest. Your Wis will always be high as a Druid, but your Con and Strength change constantly due to Wildshape.

Plus, martial arts works fine when not in Wildshape. It may in fact work very well with Shillelagh cast and a club or quarterstaff being wielded. But it works without any spellcasting flaws, and costs no resources. And you happen to be an awesome caster when you run out of bear-juice, so probably should spend a bit of time in caster form too. Even if it is just to buff yourself before you start punching things. Or casting Pass without Trace.

I personally don't rate Bladesong at all. Well, not in comparison to AniMonk or AniBarb alone.

For the long term, what would you rather. A Druid 18/Monk 2 with a minor dex necessity, or what you put above? I'm not putting your idea down, it is an actual question.

Yeah, from what you guys are saying i can see its basically strictly worse than other alternatives. I really just liked the idea of pairing the unaromored defense + barb resist + int-to-ac+free temp hit points for some weird tanky dumbness. But the extra ac probably isn't worth the 2 levels+int MAD + bonus action competition. Too many other classes that are really strong with a 2 level dip.

Also sambojin, unfortunately I don't think the movement bonus works in animal forms. The PHB seems to imply (although it is only an implication, not spelled out) that speed means walking speed unless specifically stated otherwise. At the beginning of chapter 9 it says "Your speed—sometimes called your walking speed—is noted on your character sheet,". Also in chapter 8 in the section specifically about speed it says "Every character and monster has a speed, which is the distance in feet that the character or monster can walk in 1 round".

Offline sambojin

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Re: Raging Singing Wildshape?
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2015, 04:47:48 PM »
Which is kind of done away with by the specific Moon Druid thingo of "Everything your character can do, it can do in Wildshape, as long as it's not spell casting or talking."  Also, by the Longstrider description, which is very similar, and is usually played as ALL movement speeds, since neither that or UM specifies (although different groups may play it different ways). The Fly spell gives you a certain flying speed, the Alter Self spell a swimming speed equal to your walking speed. Longstrider and Unarmoured Movement just gives you +10 to your "speed", without any caveats on type of movement.

It would have been easy to specify movement type, as they have with other things, but they didn't. Hopefully for that reason. It's specifically to any speed, or it would have been stated otherwise.

Oh, and I was talking about Killer Whales and Giant Octopi on land. So it's land movement speed anyway. They're quite good forms when they can move a bit, just for blindsight or reach/grapple funsies. Longstrider and Unarmoured Movement should stack for +20' land movement, even if it starts at 0' in the case of whales.

Turbo-Digger Giant Badgers are quite fun as well in certain situations. Strangely enough, a Longstrider'd Giant Octopus Monk is also one of your premier stealth forms, with +6 stealth (+8 minimum if you skilled into stealth) and has a 30' movement rate and a reach/grapple weapon for striking enemies from a hiding place. +16 stealth minimum without skill when PwT is cast is virtually undetectable. No, I don't get it either.

My group have played LS and UM as any movement. Your mileage may vary.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2015, 05:46:49 PM by sambojin »