Author Topic: Druid 1/Monk 19  (Read 2365 times)

Offline Aquion

  • Lurker
  • *
  • Posts: 5
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Druid 1/Monk 19
« on: December 11, 2015, 08:01:07 PM »
I was thinking about starting a Variant Human Monk with the Magic Initiate Feat:Druid in order to get Shillelagh and Thorn Whip from the get go. I was having a hard time deciding which lvl 1 spell to choose and then thought, "Maybe I don't have to choose." If I start out as a Druid, I'll have access to all the lvl 1 spells and one more cast per day than the feat gives. I also get ritual casting (three 1st lvl spells available), the ability to use a Druid focus, and Wis/Int save proficiencies rather than Str/Dex (Monk gets them all eventually). I'd happily trade all this for the Monk capstone.

Shillelagh lets me raise Wis first strengthening my Monk abilities w/o hurting my melee too much. My q-staff attacks run off of Wis, but my bonus unarmed attack(s) would still run off of Dex. Thorn Whip would give me an at will range attack with some battlefield control, and it seems like it would be a lot of fun. The build gets 5 ASIs (Max Wis then Dex & a feat). Also, since I am not relying on the Variant Human feat, I can go Wood Elf (better stats/darkvision/better speed/fey ancestry).

Seems like a nice concept. I even came up with a fun back story. I can't wait to give this Monk a try.

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 7310
  • (un-) Amazingly Unproductive
    • View Profile
Re: Druid 1/Monk 19
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2015, 02:15:07 PM »
Sure that's do-able.

The focus of the build would change
quite a bit more, if you wanted to go
Moon Druid 2 / Monk X .  Going with 
the Polearm Master feat is always a
good idea, if you're using Shillelagh.
Thorn Whip can work with a number
of tactics, say like a Wiz w/ Grease.
You get Darts w/ Dex as to compare.
Goodberry is a decent healing spell
on it's own, though if the party has
other more dedicated healing, it
isn't necessary or mandatory.
avatar#3 , gravitational lensing edition ... I'm way on the other side of the universe but look like pretty rings

Offline Aquion

  • Lurker
  • *
  • Posts: 5
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: Druid 1/Monk 19
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2015, 04:08:08 PM »
I've been mulling over that question. What would be more valuable: a second lvl of Druid or a feat.

Offline Aquion

  • Lurker
  • *
  • Posts: 5
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: Druid 1/Monk 19
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2015, 04:09:57 PM »
Starting off as a human Druid I could have the Druid goodies and Polearm Master from the outset. Hmmm

Offline sambojin

  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 472
  • It's a game. Have fun.
    • View Profile
Re: Druid 1/Monk 19
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2015, 08:59:04 PM »
That is not a question.

Druid (Moon) 2 is the answer though.

There is almost no reason to not have Wildshape in your repertoire. You might not be able to fly or swim, but you can do plenty of other stuff. Free giant spider climb, flurries as a bear early on, giant badger burrowing, giant hyena rampages, warhorse charge/prone/trampling all come to mind. Every form has Dex+Wis armour as soon as you hit Monk 1, which is almost always better than any natural armour they have, since you'll be pumping Wis anyway.

Martial arts doesn't work in Wildshape (WS attacks aren't "unarmed" or with a monk weapon), but Flurry of Blows works fine (two extra d4+"str or dex" attacks, better as monk damage goes up, as a bonus action every time you attack, if you have the ki to do so).

If you take one level in Druid, you'd better be damn sure you take two. Better than an extra ASI or feat, any day of the week. Wildshape is awesome. Even more-so as a Monk. 10'+ extra movement (argue for any movement, so climbing and burrowing), Wis armour, Flurry. AniMonks are great, heavy monk or heavy druid. It's one of those amazing classes.

Don't choose Polearm Master as a Monk. You have Martial Arts. You already have bonus action attacks with a stick. A Wisdom stick. You lose half of the feat already, just because you're a Monk. Any other feat is better.

Magical Initiate is better. Far better. Warlock w/ Hex/Mage Hand/Minor Illusion would be useful all campaign. Cleric w/ Bless/Resistance/Guidance is good too, just so your Druid cantrips are freed up, and Bless is great all game (no MAD about it either). Or go for a Half Elf for stats and skills (or SCAG it up if you want to).
« Last Edit: December 12, 2015, 11:55:43 PM by sambojin »

Offline sambojin

  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 472
  • It's a game. Have fun.
    • View Profile
Re: Druid 1/Monk 19
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2015, 09:49:09 PM »
Also, what Monk path were you considering?

Four Elements can be fun just for Fangs of the Fire Snake.

Kill one enemy with bear claws and bites. Flurry and Firesnake another (or two) within 15'. It chews ki like you wouldn't believe, but it's satisfying as hell. Great against mook hordes. 2-4 ki points a pop, but it pops well when used in the right situation. You can even split your firesnake flurry between enemies, or nova them all onto one target right beside you. Even just a flurry and fangs is nice at 2 ki points, for versatile reach, but when the flurry attacks hit the extra +2d10 fire damage is great for 2 extra ki. Nova, reach, spread? Your choice. As a monk or animal.

Wildshape isn't really your main damage form, Monk is. But it's awesome for utility and damage sponge. Extra HP is nice, and Wildshape and 4 Elements gives you some funsie options.

Open Palm is probably "better", but firesnake flurries are great, Monk form or Wildshaped.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2015, 10:53:29 PM by sambojin »

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 7310
  • (un-) Amazingly Unproductive
    • View Profile
Re: Druid 1/Monk 19
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2015, 04:51:05 PM »
 :tongue ... somewhat oops-ish on my part.

It does give a reason to compare what you
get with Moon 2 versus Polearm Master.
I suppose the case could be made, to blow
Ki quickly, and then have PM as the backup.
avatar#3 , gravitational lensing edition ... I'm way on the other side of the universe but look like pretty rings

Offline sambojin

  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 472
  • It's a game. Have fun.
    • View Profile
Re: Druid 1/Monk 19
« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2015, 05:52:41 PM »
For damage comparisons, at Monk 5 (4Ele) you can have (with Shillelagh cast and fangs being used):
2x normal attack at d8+Wis (or d6+St or Dex for fang flurries)
2x Flurry attacks at d6+(St or Dex)
+d10 fire damage for each unarmed attack that hits.

This is assuming the thing you're hitting isn't immune or resistant to fire. Say you've got 18 Wis and 16 Dex by lvl 5, and 6 ki to blow if all attacks hit, this gives a maximum of:

2d6+6unarmed attacks+2d6+6flurry+4d10fangs (written dumbly)
for an average maximum of 48 damage (fire).

Not too shabby at lvl 5 Monk alone.

Of course, a brown bear with flurry and fangs gets: 2d6+4claws+1d8+4bite+2d4+8flurry+2d10fangs, average 43.5 and uses only 4 ki for it at Druid 2/Monk 3

So nova in Monk form, mini-nova in bear, and it'll probably be a bit of a toss-up between shillelagh monk and bear for ki-less attacks, depending on whether you've hit 2x attacks yet or not.


I'll have to check the math, but there you go.

fake edit: I'll do the shillelagh maths soon, with one attack and two, flurried fangs and not. Fangs is horribly costly ki-wise, so shillelagh with MA will probably be your "standard" attack, with bear being virtually identical but freeing up your bonus action.