Author Topic: Options for a Blockbuster Player  (Read 2401 times)

Offline 7h39

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 93
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Options for a Blockbuster Player
« on: February 04, 2016, 08:34:06 AM »
BOOOM, BAM, CRASH, ZAAAP, ZIIING, SPLAT

Hello everyone, the guide to the blockbuster (blaster) wizard for PF was a thing, and now with the growing and growing mass of traits/feats/features (like esoteric training) PF reached a decent amount of blastiness/cheeseness for  my taste (more or less in a 3.5 way).

But....I'm going to start soon a 5e campign and i don't find that "thing" of 3.5/PF blastiness... Twin Spell cant target same creature?? Quicken Spell prevents double casting (ok cantrips exclued)? Tweet-rata cancel real damage options? WTF it's going to be a melee mahyem like the recent MtG? Seriously WotC print me back OP sorceries/instants [end of rant].

Can you help me through some blaster options and build viable from 5th level character ^^?

Scrolling down the forum and interet i founf Sorcerer/Warlok - Tempest Cleric - Evoker Wizard/Fighter, but the real DPR builds are for melee (it seams).
Then there is the NOVA vs. DPR issue: Tempest Clr/Fighter can maximize a lighting bolt and fire another the same turn, ok cool... but then? 1/Short rest it's a huge hit on staying power, there isn't any 3.5 Psion like option (you have fine control on when nova and when not)?.

Thx for reading and for your help!

Offline sambojin

  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 472
  • It's a game. Have fun.
    • View Profile
Re: Options for a Blockbuster Player
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2016, 01:06:42 PM »
How many levels are we looking at? What level does the campaign start at for the player? And what level is the campaign looking at full-term?

How does the DM adjudicate summons? Are swarms allowed?

Does the DM allow Unearthed Arcana?

Magic items? To begin with, or expected eventually? Rarities?

If you just want a lvl 20 build, the max for DPR or sustained DPR, that's easy. There's heaps of them that do stuff. If there's any of the above questions that have to be answered, then you'll have to be a bit more specific.

Yeah. Magic does stuff. Specific stuff. Sometimes DPR. Sometimes stuff that makes DPR irrelevant, or makes it happen in the first place.

So, ummm? Answer ye, or get none.

Offline 8wGremlin

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 117
  • Been around for a long while
    • View Profile
Re: Options for a Blockbuster Player
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2016, 04:38:52 PM »
For a good blaster type character you can't go wrong with Warlock 2/Sorcerer 3 as a base.

You get eldritch blast which scales with multiple rays, each does 1d10 force damage per hit and you can add your CHA mod too if you take the Agonizing Blast Invocation. at 5th level you get two rays, 3 @ 11th and 4 @ 17th level.  It's a cantrip so you can quicken it no problem.

i'd take Warlock to 3 so you can get some good pact magic choices going for you, I prefer tomelock with the Book of Ancient Secrets invocation for extra versatility.

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 7334
  • (un-) Amazingly Unproductive
    • View Profile
Re: Options for a Blockbuster Player
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2016, 04:51:05 PM »
Evoker sans any twat-ratas, and/or
mix in TM20's write-up on spells.

Something'Lock is better artillery.
And it's goof proof, middle of the road.

I don't remember anyone trying an
Evoker'Lock combo back at old wotc
and getting lots of mileage out of it.
(maybe I missed it, happens all the time)

The "True Assassin" handbook has suffered
multiple piles of nerfs, they got some truly
ridiculous numbers going, not really a blaster,
more an Alpha Strike set-up.
Fighter 2 / Assassin 3 / all sorts of weirdness X
avatar#3 , gravitational lensing edition ... I'm way on the other side of the universe but look like pretty rings

Offline 7h39

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 93
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: Options for a Blockbuster Player
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2016, 08:12:38 AM »
How many levels are we looking at? What level does the campaign start at for the player? And what level is the campaign looking at full-term?

How does the DM adjudicate summons? Are swarms allowed?

Does the DM allow Unearthed Arcana?

Magic items? To begin with, or expected eventually? Rarities?

If you just want a lvl 20 build, the max for DPR or sustained DPR, that's easy. There's heaps of them that do stuff. If there's any of the above questions that have to be answered, then you'll have to be a bit more specific.

Yeah. Magic does stuff. Specific stuff. Sometimes DPR. Sometimes stuff that makes DPR irrelevant, or makes it happen in the first place.

So, ummm? Answer ye, or get none.

I'm sorry if i didn't explain me well.

How i said camping starts at 5 and i think it goes up to 15.

I don't know anything about swarms?should i be worried/interested into?

UA and campign specific material is allowed, same for tweetrata and updates.

No clue on magic items, i don't know well the system...are players over first level allowed to start with a magic item? I can bring this argument to the table if it is.

I aim to a build that has the chance of a "super attack" aka nova like psionic overchannel or wild surge sometimes (2 times a fight?) and manages to do average damage subsequent rounds. More point for stylish
Things.

Yes i know magic do a lot of things, And damage is otften suboptimal..but hey explosions are fun, i dont want to play chess (lol)

For a good blaster type character you can't go wrong with Warlock 2/Sorcerer 3 as a base.

You get eldritch blast which scales with multiple rays, each does 1d10 force damage per hit and you can add your CHA mod too if you take the Agonizing Blast Invocation. at 5th level you get two rays, 3 @ 11th and 4 @ 17th level.  It's a cantrip so you can quicken it no problem.

i'd take Warlock to 3 so you can get some good pact magic choices going for you, I prefer tomelock with the Book of Ancient Secrets invocation for extra versatility.

THX for your help! I've guessed che same while i was browsing che forum. It would be awesome if it wold exist a force dragon ancestry and +cha damge would apply to rays and magic missiles.. Maybe i can bring forte dragon to the table, but damage bonus from dragon sorcerer was nerfed 1/spell right?

Do you know the "java the sleepless drow" cheese? It advances only the warlock class, could it work with sorcer and a minimal lock DIP?

Evoker sans any twat-ratas, and/or mix in TM20's write-up on spells.

Something'Lock is better artillery. And it's goof proof, middle of the road.

I don't remember anyone trying an  Evoker'Lock combo back at old wotc and getting lots of mileage out of it.
(maybe I missed it, happens all the time)

The "True Assassin" handbook has sufferedmultiple piles of nerfs, they got some truly ridiculous numbers going, not really a blaster, more an Alpha Strike set-up. Fighter 2 / Assassin 3 / all sorts of weirdness X

THX to you too!
It would be very nice overchanneling spells and cantips (for 0 necrotic).. But i dont think it would pass wit che known erratas. There isn't any way to gain immunity to necrotic damage and go overchannel-nuts? Btw, Are you against multiclassing for wizard?

PS. Does che new psionic UA have anything blasty that's not Gish?

Offline sambojin

  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 472
  • It's a game. Have fun.
    • View Profile
Re: Options for a Blockbuster Player
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2016, 03:44:39 AM »
Not really. It's got two attack cantrips that rely on Int saves that do psychic damage, but that's about it damage-wise. Nice for the different save and damage type, but no better than other other save/attack cantrip really. There probably are more dumb enemies than Dexxy or Forty things around though. But BBEG bosses often get 3 free saves, so they're not great against the big bads. Not for a primary blaster.

Psionics does have some nice mêlée options, but that's not really for this thread. It's also got plenty of "soft" options too, but not much that goes kaboom.

I'm sure the class will be great in the long-term (when it's finished), but for now the UA is still for power-dipping. Nice options, but what we currently have is for multi-classing.
-----

On swarms, again, not really. Theoretically they have pretty amazing damage/HP as summons, and can stack in one spot if you use a grid for combat (AoO aplenty if a foe moves), but in practice they're not as good as they look. They're good DoT though, last ages, and are still one of the best summons from Conjure Animals there is (there's lots of types of swarms, all with different uses. Mostly it's Swarms of Ravens you use though, because they're all-round good). There's plenty of things to summon that are good though, and most play groups don't allow swarms (even if they're CR 1/4 or 1/2), mostly because they're slightly better than good from a spell that is already very good. It's not necessarily "blasty", but damage is damage. You can still cast instant non-concentration spells while your summons/swarms do things, so it's just another form of action economy. A very good one that some DMs hate (lots of rolls, lots of options, potentially a lot of adjudication needed. It can slow things down).
-----

For a 5th level build, you really can't go wrong with Sorc 3/Warlock 2. High Char and any other stats you want. V.human or H.elf for the race.

Then level to Sorc 5, and start considering options. It gives plenty of choices and resources, E.blast +Char damage for your basic attack, Hex for damage boosting, and fireballs etc for kabooms. Scorching Ray isn't too shabby either.

Then dump two levels of Fighter in down the track somewhere if you ever feel like Quickened spells aren't quite enough damage for you (AS+Quickened is about all the action economy you'll ever get from anything). It's hard to fit in though, and slows spell progress/damage to a crawl (with a pretty reasonable payoff, but not necessary mostly). If action surge isn't a concern, then Warlock 3 is good for a nice ritual book or a pet, more lvl 2 slots to play with (font them if you don't use them), and some RP junk for fun. Sorc 17/Lock 3 is pretty much the stereotypical lvl20 blaster build, for lots of very good reasons. I'd stick to levelling Sorc for a while unless there's very good reasons to grab Lock 3 (you're the only caster, there's no party scout and you really need one, there's always long times between short rests, etc). One level of Cleric (Arcana) from SCAG is always an option for anyone with Wis13+, but it's probably least good here, because SorcLock is already so good.


A light Cleric is actually pretty funky for blasting too. I'd still want either Sorc 3 or Lock 2 in there somewhere for Quickened/font or Hex/E.blast, but you get all the basic blasting, a nicish AoE divine thingo for hordes, and the whole cleric spell list. It's not great, but it's often over-looked, and does as well as many other blaster builds (although it's not as finely tuned or regularly used as SorcLock).

I can't really recommend a Mountain Druid/Tempest Cleric mix, but in theory, they're not bad for lightning spooge with plenty of versatility on their lists from cantrips and little Wild Shape.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2016, 04:44:13 AM by sambojin »

Offline 7h39

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 93
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: Options for a Blockbuster Player
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2016, 10:18:15 AM »
Thx for all informations!

I'll go for SorLock then!

Offline Power

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • **
  • Posts: 240
  • Rolling a boulder up a hill
    • View Profile
Re: Options for a Blockbuster Player
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2016, 09:55:39 AM »
Going 3 levels of Lock is preferred not only for Tomelock where you also retrain an invocation into Book of Ancient Secrets, but also because it gives you a 2nd level slot (and 2nd level Warlock spells) that refreshes every time you take a short rest. The Sorcerer can convert this slot into 2 sorcery points every short rest too.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2016, 03:20:12 AM by Power »

Offline sambojin

  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 472
  • It's a game. Have fun.
    • View Profile
Re: Options for a Blockbuster Player
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2016, 09:34:14 PM »
Yeah. But I still recommend holding off a bit on it until you're happy with your sorc damage and spell list.

Lock 3 is a nice boost, and a nice set of options that cover many shortcomings of a mono-sorc, but more spell levels are needed early. More Lvl2 short rest slots (for fonting) and cantrip fill-out can wait a bit.

Offline TenaciousJ

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 600
  • AVENGE WAGON
    • View Profile
Re: Options for a Blockbuster Player
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2016, 10:08:12 AM »
Eldritch Blast is so completely over-emphasized I feel like most people don't play past level 6 or so.  If your campaign would get to level 11, you'd much rather your sorcerer get Disintegrate than be able to spam Eldritch Blast all day.  You might be able to win a DPR-measuring contest, but who cares if your Disintegrate ends a fight before it starts or you land a Hold Monster that lets you and your party critical at-will?
Make Eberron Great Again! #MEGA

Offline sambojin

  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 472
  • It's a game. Have fun.
    • View Profile
Re: Options for a Blockbuster Player
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2016, 02:43:46 AM »
Yep. Higher level slots do awesome. Having Hex is very nice for most things though, just due to the stat-check disadvantage. And e.blast is the best damage cantrip to fall back on, especially with Hex alongside it for DPR.

It's incredibly difficult to give thorough advice for any campaign or build without knowing just how it'll play out. But some things are just plain good. Even though a competent DM will change some things around if you're way too good at that particular area, compared to the campaign or the rest of the party.

A Sorc x/Lock 1 build is probably better than sorc x+1. Probably.

Sorc x/Lock 2 is harder to say, but it brings heaps of advantages. When exactly Lock 2 is best depends on many things. And is it better than Sorc x+2? It is a full level of spells, slots and font options with sorc only. But it requires Lock 1 to even make the decision, that you won't make in a bubble without starting lvls in a campaign (usually 5 or more). I'm not sure I *could* get off the Sorc-train if it wasn't a lvl 5 start campaign or more. Higher level spells and ASIs are just that good.

When to add Lock levels is a very hard decision. I personally wouldn't before Sorc 3, but Sorc 5 fireballs or Sorc 7 "whatevers" is still reasonable.

But any later than 10th lvl is kind of pointless, even though Hex is always useful.

I reckon Sorc 3/Lock 2 is an easy starting point, and hold off on Lock 3 until you really need/want it. But Sorc 5 is plenty powerful in its own right. So is Sorc 7.

It's your own choice, but I'd rather "stunt growth" while being versatile early, than have the options seem weak and useless later, or only icing at lvl 15+.

Versatility wins out a bit more than sheer power early on, especially if your choices add power to your basics. It's hard to sell Lock lvl 1/2 or even 3 at Sorc 11+, but it has obvious advantages at Sorc lvl 3 or so. And Hex+e.blast is just about the equivalent of any lvl 2-3 spell, except it keeps going.

tldr;
Lock 1: good
Lock 2: whenever, but pretty good still
Lock 3: later. much later. Not bad, but not that big.
Sorc x+1: Always good.
Make your choices.

The best thing any spell casting class can do is take more levels in that spell casting class. Unless there's something else really good to take. Most things aren't as good as more and better spells, so it has to be really good (and using the same major stat preferably). One or two levels tops. Three is just icing near the end and usually isn't worth consideration on a build.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2016, 03:08:01 AM by sambojin »