Author Topic: High End OOC thread III-Separations of Doom  (Read 37633 times)

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: High End OOC thread III-Separations of Doom
« Reply #100 on: July 13, 2016, 12:15:46 AM »
I'm actually pretty sure that's a mistranslation brought on by the common thief of fire motif among the various pentathlons. I think it's more accurate to say Prometheus stole a divine power from Mt. Olympus to help man with their life struggle and then he taught them how to use it. Then much like Zeus had the divine power to create lightning bolts but needed to first forge them, man had obtained the divine ability to bring fire instead existence.

In other words, it's not that Prometheus literately stole the ungraspable but rather in a limited language that struggles to differentiate between the ideals and the material. The idea that the creation fire is a divine gift to men got shorthanded to something that can synonymously equal to the phase: "he stole a campfire" which leads to a couple head scratches later on on how exactly that worked outside of claiming it's magic.

Mindful, I've done like zero research into the topic, it's just how I decipher it.
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Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: High End OOC thread III-Separations of Doom
« Reply #101 on: July 13, 2016, 06:44:35 AM »
It's a recurring motif not limited to Greek myth.

People really like stealing fire.
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Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: High End OOC thread III-Separations of Doom
« Reply #102 on: July 13, 2016, 11:27:49 AM »
It's a recurring motif not limited to Greek myth.
People really like stealing fire.
*ahem*
I'm actually pretty sure that's a mistranslation brought on by the common thief of fire motif among the various pentathlons
It's actually mostly found in the more nomadic / tribal religions. By the time Judaism came about over three thousand years ago it was getting pushed towards knowledge taught to humanity. Like I consider Greek to be influenced by Norse, through I'm sure Norse also has elements from the Greeks, and over on the Norse side Loki is the trickster god of fire with no proven source of influence. But it's not that he stole fire but rather he was fire and shady enough to steal everything you owned. Claiming he stole fire and Odin's birds are tearing him apart as punishment is the exact thing I'd expect things to get changed to by word of mouth and that may have very well led to Prometheus's story which also explains how he is a Titian opposed to another Olympian. Food for thought.
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Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: High End OOC thread III-Separations of Doom
« Reply #103 on: July 13, 2016, 11:56:15 AM »
I was looking at mythologies from different continents. It keeps showing up.

Zero research with the assumption of a mistranslation that would actually make it different from the norm isn't a good baseline argument.
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Offline Kuroimaken

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Re: High End OOC thread III-Separations of Doom
« Reply #104 on: July 13, 2016, 01:19:44 PM »
Common themes shared by cultures that have never been proven to contact one another historically is, at least in theory, easily explained by neural evolution.

Interesting fact: in spite of having been split across vast expanses of different continents, mankind's brain patterns have evolved more or less exactly the same - different cultures with vastly different needs developed much the same technologies as they improved, with different techniques overall and different styles owing to their basic environments and how their cultures shaped up. They did, however, share several traces in common, whether in those technologies themselves or their cultural beliefs. That's why you have big firebirds both in ancient China and ancient Greece, even though neither civilization has, to our knowledge, ever contacted the other until relatively recently. Both also represent rebirth. That's also why Chinese and British dragon myths are different - both are big-ass lizards, possibly owing to the fact that lizards are reptiles and therefore often poisonous, though both also have different conotations, because of how each sees nature as a culture.

But in either case such similarities could be conceivably explained by identical evolutive paths insofar as our brains are concerned - much like babies have distinct steps in their growth patterns, like that age where they try to put everything in their mouths.
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Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: High End OOC thread III-Separations of Doom
« Reply #105 on: July 13, 2016, 01:35:10 PM »
China actually had indirect contact with (and knowledge of) Rome, interestingly.
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Offline Kuroimaken

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Re: High End OOC thread III-Separations of Doom
« Reply #106 on: July 13, 2016, 01:46:23 PM »
China actually had indirect contact with (and knowledge of) Rome, interestingly.

Hmmm. Depending on the nature of such contacts it is possible that cross-culture pollination had occurred (given the time when Rome conquered Greece), but for that we'd need an idea of when the Phoenix myth in both first appeared.
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Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: High End OOC thread III-Separations of Doom
« Reply #107 on: July 13, 2016, 10:18:44 PM »
I was looking at mythologies from different continents. It keeps showing up.
Zero research with the assumption of a mistranslation that would actually make it different from the norm isn't a good baseline argument.
On the same token, your baseless counter argument is utterly meaningless since it doesn't cites resources either.

Also it doesn't even pose a rebuttal, more like show cases how you can't even google up a point before discussing it. The discussion is about Prometheus stealing fire and you're rebuttal even has it's own wikipedia entry, the Theft of Fire. And of it's listed examples at the top the Algonqui, Ojibwa, Yukon, & Cherokee are all America based and the Polynesian entry is simply the islands near them. Matarisvan of India and the Azazel of Judaism are on the same continents as Greece and surprise they are both about teaching man fire which makes Prometheus, by region, the odd man out and flunking your rebuttal.

Also, in ancient Greece during the Olympics fires burned in Zeus & Hera's temples to honor them as well as an overall tributation to Hestia of the Hearth. It seems pretty strange to flaunt stolen goods in front of the Deity that condemned the thief to an eternity of suffering. Unless of course the interpretation that Prometheus stole a literal fire it something a more modern civilization tacked on in it's displaced understanding. Like I bet you think the Olympic Torch was a thing back then even through it's only like eighty years old.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2016, 10:20:36 PM by SorO_Lost »
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Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: High End OOC thread III-Separations of Doom
« Reply #108 on: July 13, 2016, 11:30:08 PM »
I just realised that nobody in this entire thing (Super Robots especially) has any sort of finishing attack ability. This seems a little off. :lmao
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Offline ketaro

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Re: High End OOC thread III-Separations of Doom
« Reply #109 on: July 14, 2016, 12:47:50 AM »
Excuse me, I can tear a hole in reality now. That's a hell of a way to "finish" off some one.

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Offline Anomander

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Re: High End OOC thread III-Separations of Doom
« Reply #110 on: July 14, 2016, 01:49:33 AM »
Quote
I just realised that nobody in this entire thing (Super Robots especially) has any sort of finishing attack ability. This seems a little off.
I think we can sort of do those using spirits. If it kills the enemy you can then say "yeah, that was my finishing attack".
Which makes sense since when you're using a finisher that doesn't finish the target, it ain't much of a finisher.

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: High End OOC thread III-Separations of Doom
« Reply #111 on: July 16, 2016, 03:41:37 PM »
We're working on mecha scale? xD
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Offline ketaro

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Re: High End OOC thread III-Separations of Doom
« Reply #112 on: July 16, 2016, 05:21:45 PM »
Oh look, there goes that Katherine again, diving headfirst into immediate danger without a second thought. Ooooooh boooooy  :rolleyes

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: High End OOC thread III-Separations of Doom
« Reply #113 on: July 16, 2016, 05:35:56 PM »
I'll be joining in shortly. :p
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Offline oslecamo

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Re: High End OOC thread III-Separations of Doom
« Reply #114 on: July 16, 2016, 07:31:30 PM »
Common themes shared by cultures that have never been proven to contact one another historically is, at least in theory, easily explained by neural evolution.

Interesting fact: in spite of having been split across vast expanses of different continents, mankind's brain patterns have evolved more or less exactly the same - different cultures with vastly different needs developed much the same technologies as they improved, with different techniques overall and different styles owing to their basic environments and how their cultures shaped up. They did, however, share several traces in common, whether in those technologies themselves or their cultural beliefs. That's why you have big firebirds both in ancient China and ancient Greece, even though neither civilization has, to our knowledge, ever contacted the other until relatively recently. Both also represent rebirth. That's also why Chinese and British dragon myths are different - both are big-ass lizards, possibly owing to the fact that lizards are reptiles and therefore often poisonous, though both also have different conotations, because of how each sees nature as a culture.

But in either case such similarities could be conceivably explained by identical evolutive paths insofar as our brains are concerned - much like babies have distinct steps in their growth patterns, like that age where they try to put everything in their mouths.

A bit late to this discussion but I would like to point out that in America there were multiple highly developed civilizations with neither the wheel or iron working.

Babies putting stuff in mouth is hardwired instinct. Like breathing and sucking/swallowing it is essential for survival.

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: High End OOC thread III-Separations of Doom
« Reply #115 on: July 16, 2016, 11:44:11 PM »
A bit late to this discussion but I would like to point out that in America there were multiple highly developed civilizations with neither the wheel or iron working.
Technically that has to for with the the types of animals that could be domesticated. North America had llamas which have very poor work loads which means no beasts of burden for agriculture or transportation innovation. And one of the side effects of that is not needing a heavy material's durability that can withstand such an animal.
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Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: High End OOC thread III-Separations of Doom
« Reply #116 on: July 16, 2016, 11:51:54 PM »
And working out metalworking is a matter of luck.

Still wondering about the scale/whether summoning an absolutely huge robot is appropriate.
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Offline Anomander

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Re: High End OOC thread III-Separations of Doom
« Reply #117 on: July 17, 2016, 01:11:48 AM »
@ketaro: Slick. That natural 20 amazes me.  :clap

@osle: Just for clarity, wouldn't the drones have seen that hiding marauder get of out hiding before it attacked? She has drones in opposite sides of the area. Especially considering Mao cannot be flatfooted.

Gonna wait on how Ketaro might have changed the order of things.
Anyone gonna take care of the black market merchants to get the goods the hostiles are after? Hugo maybe? Kinda our expert on the stuff. :)

Quote
Still wondering about the scale/whether summoning an absolutely huge robot is appropriate.
So far the entire place looks immense. In every direction.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2016, 01:16:20 AM by Anomander »

Offline ketaro

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Re: High End OOC thread III-Separations of Doom
« Reply #118 on: July 17, 2016, 03:01:13 AM »
@ketaro: Slick. That natural 20 amazes me.  :clap

Especially if they had an Alert spirit or some nonsense up which would eat the first attack but not the crit (2nd)  :D

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: High End OOC thread III-Separations of Doom
« Reply #119 on: July 17, 2016, 09:42:12 AM »
Quote
Still wondering about the scale/whether summoning an absolutely huge robot is appropriate.
So far the entire place looks immense. In every direction.

MU Gigantic. 128 times Medium. 768'/234m is always going to be a question of 'will it fit', as I'm pretty sure Deceptively Innocent Form/Monster Lord don't transfer over to mecha. :lmao
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