Author Topic: Can we get a World/Chronicles of Darkness Thread up in here?  (Read 5485 times)

Offline Unbeliever

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Re: Can we get a World/Chronicles of Darkness Thread up in here?
« Reply #40 on: June 09, 2016, 08:36:09 PM »
There's a lot of them.  Although a bunch of game systems probably have them, especially old and hoary ones. 

I'll just pick a couple. 

Hyper Rocket Tag.  The White Wolf systems tend not to have much of a saving throw/AC mechanic.  Or, it's sporadic.  So, you'll have situations where with a fairly modest investment on offense, you can be guaranteed to have a potent effect over the target. 

I think this is particularly egregious with non-damaging powers, which tend to give you mind control  or something like that over the target.  And, it's not like these are high level powers.  There are a number of rank 1-3 powers (they tend to go from 1-5) that have this effect.  Picking one or two of these are a great way to crack out a character with almost no effort. 

Action Economy Abuse Abounds: partly related to the above, there are a bunch of important ways to get extra actions or deny targets actions.  I think Celerity is actually one of the less powerful ones, mostly b/c people kept on freaking out about it and trying to tweak it (seriously, there are like 5 versions of the damn thing).  As a combat tactic, this can be particularly potent b/c unless someone takes an action to dodge or parry, they are basically a sitting duck.

Equipment is Startlingly Potent:  another example of the fact that White Wolf authors have some form of brain damage (sorry Justin, but you know it's true ...).  In a game filled with hip cool mystic and supernatural entities, there is all sorts of bullshit "mundane" equipment that's really effective.  The nWoD is particularly awful in this regard -- like seriously, I want to keep track of my tennis shoes, really ...  In short, there's this very effective way of getting stacking or force multiplying firepower by picking the right pieces of equipment, rendering the people who spend character points on things into chumps. 


Don't get me wrong.  In part due to this thread, and due to Lib himself, I've been thinking about WW a lot.  And, there are a lot of WW games I would jump at the chance to play.  But, the games don't help you very much.  Indeed, they seem to go out of their way to be difficult.  Hence the impulse to take what's good and leave the rest behind, Egg Shen style.

Offline Argent Fatalis

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Re: Can we get a World/Chronicles of Darkness Thread up in here?
« Reply #41 on: June 09, 2016, 08:55:37 PM »
I am glad to know that Celerity seemed to be as powerful as I imagined when I read it for all the reasons similar effects are in Third or other editions, along with the fact that mind-altering or outright dominating abilities being plentiful or not too difficult to acquire. I mean, both Rage and Blood can grant extra actions too, but a whole Discipline devoted to that was pretty exceptional just at cursory glance.

I did not immediately realize however, just how bad the results of a 1 could be as your dice pool would grow. That seems entirely unintended and the odds of horribly failing things just way more common than they should be. It sounds like you would have at least one horrible botch per scene where something likely trivial just fails spectacularly without any logical reason.

Going on to mundane gear, what in particular is so absurd?

I appreciate the insight and explanations so far, and for reference I am mostly talking about the old World of Darkness, as I have not read any "new" material on it.

Offline Unbeliever

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Re: Can we get a World/Chronicles of Darkness Thread up in here?
« Reply #42 on: June 10, 2016, 04:14:53 PM »
Going on to mundane gear, what in particular is so absurd?
I'd have to think about it and do some dumpster diving for gear that I don't have the time for.  But, suffice to say that you could dumpster dive for awesome, typically mundane gear.  I'm not talking about getting a Vorpal Sword by taking the right background (although you could do that, too, especially if you were smart ...).  I mean just things you could buy. 

And, two reasons why this ended up being egregious and problematic, in my estimation (though I don't think I'm being idiosyncratic here).  The first was how much it devalued the dots on your character sheet.  I could spend a big chunk of points on badass claws that do aggravated damage.  Or, for a trivial cost, you can get bullets that do the same.  Awesome magic senses?  As good or inferior to modern espionage equipment.  That might be true in some sense, but the game is called Vampire:  the Masquerade, not CTU:  the Bauering.  Second, there was nothing that stopped you from both spending the points to be a badass and getting the gear.  There's no reason why the Fortitude-enhanced tank vampire couldn't also invest in whatever fancy pants armor existed, too.

If anything, this got considerably worse in nWoD.  An extra dot in Athletics or something is a substantial investment.  Or, you could just wear sneakers.  Actual example from the Core Rulebook.

All of which points to a fundamental issue with the games.  One that might be due to their age?  I don't know.  The game lines are almost uniformly evocative, rich in tone and interesting lore.  Yet, that is usually paired with a lot of very nitpicky rules rabbit holes you can dive down.  This can sometimes be fun to optimize, although it's a little bit without challenge.  But, what I'm driving at is that it often gets in the way of what makes the games great.

Offline Argent Fatalis

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Re: Can we get a World/Chronicles of Darkness Thread up in here?
« Reply #43 on: June 14, 2016, 08:08:31 PM »
I never expected to read such a thing as absurd as sneakers being a means to improve what amounts to a skill.

Any other unique quirks of the system or lore?

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: Can we get a World/Chronicles of Darkness Thread up in here?
« Reply #44 on: June 14, 2016, 08:37:48 PM »
I never expected to read such a thing as absurd as sneakers being a means to improve what amounts to a skill.

Any other unique quirks of the system or lore?

If you read the rules properly, to be generally proficient in conversation, you need all three attributes, four different abilities, and even more because the disciplines etc. are inconsistent to hell and back.

Or just work out exactly one conversational approach you can take and stick with it come hell or high water.

Even building to be good at one thing can get very MAD.
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Offline Amechra

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Re: Can we get a World/Chronicles of Darkness Thread up in here?
« Reply #45 on: June 14, 2016, 10:15:24 PM »
I never expected to read such a thing as absurd as sneakers being a means to improve what amounts to a skill.

Any other unique quirks of the system or lore?

If you read the rules properly, to be generally proficient in conversation, you need all three attributes, four different abilities, and even more because the disciplines etc. are inconsistent to hell and back.

Or just work out exactly one conversational approach you can take and stick with it come hell or high water.

Even building to be good at one thing can get very MAD.

That's a fool's errand! Everyone knows you just pump the stuff you need to use The Lure of Flames Thaumaturgy path, and rule through terror!

(That you are in no way, shape, or form immune to.)
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Offline Amechra

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Re: Can we get a World/Chronicles of Darkness Thread up in here?
« Reply #46 on: June 14, 2016, 10:46:31 PM »
New post, because this is something hilarious I just found in the corebook for Chronicles of Darkness, the "new" edition of nWoD.

It has a system for tricking out vehicles - a pretty simple one, too - the maximum possible number of modifications is 30+applicable specialities, assuming you find an old supernatural being that has nothing better to do than practice motorcycle repair.

More importantly, horses are listed as a type of vehicle. My next character is taking Automotive Genius and a Craft speciality in "Horses". Hell, a lot of the driving style merits are hilarious when applied to horses.
"There is happiness for those who accept their fate, there is glory for those that defy it."

"Now that everyone's so happy, this is probably a good time to tell you I ate your parents."

Offline bhu

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Re: Can we get a World/Chronicles of Darkness Thread up in here?
« Reply #47 on: June 14, 2016, 10:47:43 PM »
I never expected to read such a thing as absurd as sneakers being a means to improve what amounts to a skill.

Any other unique quirks of the system or lore?

If you read the rules properly, to be generally proficient in conversation, you need all three attributes, four different abilities, and even more because the disciplines etc. are inconsistent to hell and back.

Or just work out exactly one conversational approach you can take and stick with it come hell or high water.

Even building to be good at one thing can get very MAD.

"Give me what I want and I'll go away."

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: Can we get a World/Chronicles of Darkness Thread up in here?
« Reply #48 on: June 14, 2016, 10:53:56 PM »
I never expected to read such a thing as absurd as sneakers being a means to improve what amounts to a skill.

Any other unique quirks of the system or lore?

If you read the rules properly, to be generally proficient in conversation, you need all three attributes, four different abilities, and even more because the disciplines etc. are inconsistent to hell and back.

Or just work out exactly one conversational approach you can take and stick with it come hell or high water.

Even building to be good at one thing can get very MAD.

"Give me what I want and I'll go away."

And then you have to make a seduction roll.
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Offline bhu

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Re: Can we get a World/Chronicles of Darkness Thread up in here?
« Reply #49 on: June 15, 2016, 01:15:47 AM »
http://stephenking.wikia.com/wiki/Storm_of_the_Century

I meant that in less of a seductive and more intimidative means.

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: Can we get a World/Chronicles of Darkness Thread up in here?
« Reply #50 on: June 15, 2016, 07:52:20 AM »
http://stephenking.wikia.com/wiki/Storm_of_the_Century

I meant that in less of a seductive and more intimidative means.

And you still have to make a seduction roll because they're taking it entirely the wrong way? :P
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