Author Topic: [Interest Check] 3.5. Warfare, leadership and world-saving  (Read 9497 times)

Offline Maelphaxerazz

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Re: [Interest Check] 3.5. Warfare, leadership and world-saving
« Reply #60 on: March 09, 2017, 06:39:49 PM »
How does reducing level adjustment work when level adjustment is kept on one side of the gestalt? Does a person get a class level in the LA's place as soon as one buys the LA off?

EDIT: nvm, I now realise what happens, as the XP cost would cause him to drop a level. So a Fighter 3//Ranger 2/Divine Minion 1 who buys off his LA would become a Fighter 2//Ranger 2 that works like a Fighter 2//Ranger 2 Divine Minion. I think.

EDITEDIT: Thought Bottles make buying off LA hilarious.

Sidenote: Organizations/affiliations are allowed in this game, but I found a funny thing about this subsystem: one can actually be part of many affiliations, but you can only benefit from one at a time... and you can switch benefits once per day. This can lead to really exotic backstories, as one tries to justify a high score in every affiliation.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2017, 08:52:54 PM by Maelphaxerazz »

Online ketaro

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Re: [Interest Check] 3.5. Warfare, leadership and world-saving
« Reply #61 on: March 09, 2017, 08:59:05 PM »
And do cohorts have their own wbl or am I taking from my own for them?

If they have their own, is it the PC wbl chart or the npc one?

Same for followers?

Offline Drammor

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Re: [Interest Check] 3.5. Warfare, leadership and world-saving
« Reply #62 on: March 09, 2017, 10:52:13 PM »
Cohorts and followers have their own wealth by level. They use the NPC charts. Characters may not share their wealth with one another, regardless of whether they are PCs or NPCs.
[20:32] <DonQuixote> A POX UPON YOU ALL!
[20:32] <DonQuixote> YOU, J, FOR STEALING THE PURITY OF NORNS.
[20:32] <DonQuixote> YOU, DRAMMOR, FOR ENSNARING ME IN THIS FIENDISH PRISON.

Online ketaro

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Re: [Interest Check] 3.5. Warfare, leadership and world-saving
« Reply #63 on: March 09, 2017, 11:18:30 PM »
But can a cohort pregame craft for me using my own money?

Offline Drammor

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Re: [Interest Check] 3.5. Warfare, leadership and world-saving
« Reply #64 on: March 09, 2017, 11:24:59 PM »
Yes, they can.
[20:32] <DonQuixote> A POX UPON YOU ALL!
[20:32] <DonQuixote> YOU, J, FOR STEALING THE PURITY OF NORNS.
[20:32] <DonQuixote> YOU, DRAMMOR, FOR ENSNARING ME IN THIS FIENDISH PRISON.

Offline Chemus

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Re: [Interest Check] 3.5. Warfare, leadership and world-saving
« Reply #65 on: March 10, 2017, 01:35:09 AM »
Cool, that's what I'd assumed re: WBL (NPC Gear Value, DMG p127)

I'd forgotten the 'only 1 PrC per gestalt level' rule. I'll have to fix that in my build.

And yeah, I'd never really dealt with the lovely math regarding LA Buy-Off. I'll have to fix that too. Having looked it up and basically checked the generic math, in single-class, buying 1 LA off evens out by about 13th. The loss of both sides of the gestalt for even just 1 LA doesn't seem worth it...

How does buy-off interact with gestalt?

I'm tempted to go Evolved (as the characters' 6th levels) Necropolitan Magic Blooded Draconic Lesser Aasimar, for LA +2, and just not buy it off for my PC and Cohorts. As far as I can tell, they'd only qualify for contagion, haste or see invisibility when they evolved (6HD equaling 3rd level or lower spells).

As LA Buyoff is such a pain, for the followers, I'll just go Necr. MB Lesser Aasimar.
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Offline Rekmond

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Re: [Interest Check] 3.5. Warfare, leadership and world-saving
« Reply #66 on: March 10, 2017, 10:19:29 AM »
Ok, for my entry into the lot I have an idea, and a question or two

at very basic level

Dvati   Crusader/Barbarian

you mentioned Pathfinder material as possible, so I'd like to ask about the Barbarian archetype Invulnerable Rager
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/barbarian/archetypes/paizo-barbarian-archetypes/invulnerable-rager/

And for a template, would the White Dragonspawn be out of line?
I want to be born. To live. That is all I want. -Aura

Offline Drammor

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Re: [Interest Check] 3.5. Warfare, leadership and world-saving
« Reply #67 on: March 10, 2017, 12:21:12 PM »
How does buy-off interact with gestalt?

One of the wonderfully undefined things in 3.5, here it works just as Maelph described.

...the XP cost would cause him to drop a level. So a Fighter 3//Ranger 2/Divine Minion 1 who buys off his LA would become a Fighter 2//Ranger 2 that works like a Fighter 2//Ranger 2 Divine Minion.

White dragonspawn dvati Crusader//Invulnerable Rager Barbarian is okay with me. Quite the battle turtle, too.
[20:32] <DonQuixote> A POX UPON YOU ALL!
[20:32] <DonQuixote> YOU, J, FOR STEALING THE PURITY OF NORNS.
[20:32] <DonQuixote> YOU, DRAMMOR, FOR ENSNARING ME IN THIS FIENDISH PRISON.

Offline Chemus

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Re: [Interest Check] 3.5. Warfare, leadership and world-saving
« Reply #68 on: March 10, 2017, 02:04:13 PM »
Fixed Build, Unequipped: Evolved Necropolitan Magic Blooded Draconic Lesser Aasimar
S: 18 (6pts, +4 Rac), D: 12 (4pts), C: -- (0pts, +2 Rac), I: 10 (2pts), W: 12 (4pts, +2, -2 Rac), C: 26 (16pts, +6 Rac, 4th, 8th)

Paladin of Slaughter 9//Draconic 1/Marshal 2/Fighter 2/Evolved 1/Legendary Leader 3
10 Cohorts: 1 8th, 1 7th, 2 6th, 2 5th, 4 4th, each using lower level version of same build.

Followers numbers TBD; ~50 5th+ (Summoning a Drakkensteed Mount for 10+h/day, Spirited Charge)

Commander Aura: Melee Commander (+1 melee AB for lower ranked allies in 30')
Lesser Marshal Aura: Over the Top (+Cha (8) Damage on a charge for self and allies in 60'.)
Greater Marshal Aura: Motivate Attack (+1 Melee AB for self and allies in 60')

Lance Charge Damage for PC (two handed): 3d8+42 piercing, +1d8+14 when diving 30'/10' down.
Apathy is ...ah screw it.
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Offline Rekmond

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Re: [Interest Check] 3.5. Warfare, leadership and world-saving
« Reply #69 on: March 10, 2017, 02:11:41 PM »
How does buy-off interact with gestalt?

One of the wonderfully undefined things in 3.5, here it works just as Maelph described.

...the XP cost would cause him to drop a level. So a Fighter 3//Ranger 2/Divine Minion 1 who buys off his LA would become a Fighter 2//Ranger 2 that works like a Fighter 2//Ranger 2 Divine Minion.

confuses me too. So let me see, my first buyoff at level 6 would cost 7K xp.

Does that mean that I am 7K xp from level 9, where I will pay 9K xp to stay at level 8 until I earn another 9K?
I want to be born. To live. That is all I want. -Aura

Offline Drammor

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Re: [Interest Check] 3.5. Warfare, leadership and world-saving
« Reply #70 on: March 10, 2017, 02:59:01 PM »
If you bought off at level 6, it cost you 7kxp, putting you at level 8 now, 7kxp short of 9.
[20:32] <DonQuixote> A POX UPON YOU ALL!
[20:32] <DonQuixote> YOU, J, FOR STEALING THE PURITY OF NORNS.
[20:32] <DonQuixote> YOU, DRAMMOR, FOR ENSNARING ME IN THIS FIENDISH PRISON.

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: [Interest Check] 3.5. Warfare, leadership and world-saving
« Reply #71 on: March 10, 2017, 03:19:38 PM »
So I know you wanted four and you may have a 5th, but I suppose if a Human Mystic Ranger 4 / Bone Knight 5 // Dread Necromancer 8 / LA 1(?) with Toughness, Troll-Blooded, Extend Spell, Persist Spell, Undead Battery, Corpsecrafter, & Undead Leadership would work I'll toss my hat in as a back up.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2017, 03:34:55 PM by SorO_Lost »
Would you die if you jumped from my perceived ego to your IQ? - Is 15secs of confirmation bias a goal post worth arguing for? - Ever asked a "victim" what they did to deserve it? - Are the words teen, SJW, & liberal synonyms? - "Only Sith deals in absolutes" contains a misspelled word.

Offline Drammor

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Re: [Interest Check] 3.5. Warfare, leadership and world-saving
« Reply #72 on: March 10, 2017, 04:21:05 PM »
I'll accept that backup :V I love the Bone Knight. But Undead Battery is, as you yourself have said, a bit insane. How about capping it at your HD/day?

Edit: This isn't a requirement, but some advice. Don't spend too much time on the followers/cohorts of 4th level and below. The game is calibrated for 4 level 9 gestalt PCs. Anything too low-level can generally be thought of as fodder, and it will be treated as such.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2017, 05:19:03 PM by Drammor »
[20:32] <DonQuixote> A POX UPON YOU ALL!
[20:32] <DonQuixote> YOU, J, FOR STEALING THE PURITY OF NORNS.
[20:32] <DonQuixote> YOU, DRAMMOR, FOR ENSNARING ME IN THIS FIENDISH PRISON.

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: [Interest Check] 3.5. Warfare, leadership and world-saving
« Reply #73 on: March 10, 2017, 09:26:58 PM »
I'll accept that backup :V I love the Bone Knight. But Undead Battery is, as you yourself have said, a bit insane. How about capping it at your HD/day?
I figured it might have been banned, the cap is fine.

Looked the Feat up, it requires 6th level Spells & Greater Spell Focus so it can't be taken anyway.
I still like the idea of a Bone Knight through, well I suppose I have plenty of time to think ;)

Would you die if you jumped from my perceived ego to your IQ? - Is 15secs of confirmation bias a goal post worth arguing for? - Ever asked a "victim" what they did to deserve it? - Are the words teen, SJW, & liberal synonyms? - "Only Sith deals in absolutes" contains a misspelled word.

Online ketaro

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Re: [Interest Check] 3.5. Warfare, leadership and world-saving
« Reply #74 on: March 10, 2017, 10:29:31 PM »
Oh my gosh can all of my orc casters be muscle-mages?
Yanno, that Lost Tradition feat.

Offline Chemus

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Re: [Interest Check] 3.5. Warfare, leadership and world-saving
« Reply #75 on: March 10, 2017, 11:51:00 PM »
Since I can only have PrC's on one side of the gestalt at a time, how does a +1 Caster Level PrC (The Lord/Lady of the Dead, for this Character) interact with Paladin if they're opposite each other? Since Paladin casting ain't great shakes anyway, does it just improve it? Perhaps since the caster level only increases every other level for paladin, they stack, but the spells per day don't?

[Definitely OT] That said, I find no rules on what does happen with a Wizard 20//Rogue 1/Shadowcraft Mage 5/Shadowcrafter 9/Nightmare Spinner 5. Does he get any boost to casting from the second side of the gestalt, or is that covered by the 'Class features that two classes share (such as uncanny dodge) accrue at the rate of the faster class' rule? [/OT]

Back to topic, I still like Malephaxerazz's (?) suggestion of Evening Glory as the Church we're from. Even the Orks could be explained as the only folks who'd tolerate the church; though it's awfully touchy-feely for them. SorO's Bone Knight would fit the theme rather well as well.

[Edit] Since they're weenies anyway, my 1st-4th followers (not the 4th Cohorts) will likely be warlocks with Eldritch Spear (250'), Summon Swarm (only 25-35' range, but can cause bleeding or poison), and See the Unseen(?). I'm considering Necropolitan Sparrow Hengeyokai as the race, unless you object to Fine Sized 23 Dex sharpshooters. Otherwise Necropolitan Anthropomorphic Ravens would work. [/Edit]
« Last Edit: March 11, 2017, 12:23:18 AM by Chemus »
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Online ketaro

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Re: [Interest Check] 3.5. Warfare, leadership and world-saving
« Reply #76 on: March 11, 2017, 12:31:43 AM »
Well maybe my orcs are of a more macabre variety? Yanno, wearing our enemies corpses into the next battle. Wanting a giant flying zombie dragon from my necromancer buddies. Having an orchestra of barbarians that scream at dead people in harmonious unison.

I realized I changed my plan for DFI on my main PC so I'ma switch over to another bloodline. Or none at all. I'm suddenly realizing I can't figure out how the hell bloodlines work. Yay.

Edit: Are they basically 'null' levels that you pay exp for to get the bonuses for? As compared  to LA which gives you everything upfront and you can pay exp later. Maybe a little moot on remembering OP says they only incur a penalty to gained exp rather than having to 'purchase' the levels.....Anyways....
« Last Edit: March 11, 2017, 12:49:36 AM by ketaro »

Offline Chemus

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Re: [Interest Check] 3.5. Warfare, leadership and world-saving
« Reply #77 on: March 11, 2017, 12:45:28 AM »
Re: bloodlines, Drammor actually fixed the issue by having them cost 10, 15 or 20% XP for Minor, Intermediate, and Major respectively.

You just get the listed stuff at the listed levels and forget about the Not-LA LA that most of the rules are blathering about.
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Online ketaro

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Re: [Interest Check] 3.5. Warfare, leadership and world-saving
« Reply #78 on: March 11, 2017, 12:50:14 AM »
Cool, thank you thank you. Yeah, once I reread it enough times to click, I realized, yeah, moot question hahah.

Anyways....

Is UA the only book with Bloodlines?
Does it count as homebrew to use UA's own rules to fashion together a bloodline not already charted out? :p

Offline Drammor

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Re: [Interest Check] 3.5. Warfare, leadership and world-saving
« Reply #79 on: March 11, 2017, 12:58:01 AM »
Re: caster level+ and gestalt; you just need to look at benefits of gaining a level on a by-level basis. The short answer is that getting +1 caster level at the same time as a level in a caster class doesn't accelerate your caster level.

Conceptually, the slightly longer answer is that gestalt only gives you the benefits of the things that don't overlap. +1 caster level overlaps +1 caster level the same way that d10 HD overlaps d6 HD, so you only get one of them. Technically it can be either one, since the values are equal, but gestalt only gives you the better or disparate of two class levels' gains at any given level.

Re: new bloodlines, yes.

« Last Edit: March 11, 2017, 01:06:53 AM by Drammor »
[20:32] <DonQuixote> A POX UPON YOU ALL!
[20:32] <DonQuixote> YOU, J, FOR STEALING THE PURITY OF NORNS.
[20:32] <DonQuixote> YOU, DRAMMOR, FOR ENSNARING ME IN THIS FIENDISH PRISON.