Author Topic: [D&D 3.5 + Homebrew] Shattered Gates of Slaughtergarde  (Read 1177 times)

Offline Nanshork

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Re: [D&D 3.5 + Homebrew] Shattered Gates of Slaughtergarde
« Reply #20 on: July 06, 2017, 01:05:48 AM »
That'll teach me to quickly pop on the board before going to bed.

Okay...Motivate Endurance.

I do agree that it is a huge power boost at our level.  Too huge.  The rewrite feels like more work, but the hp function like extra hp from Rage so it's not too bad as long as people don't pop in and out of the aura during combat.  The HP + Temp HP feel like too much, but I'm too tired to look at the auras it is being compared with that I obviously thought were okay because I reviewed them awhile ago.


Right now I don't have any helpful thoughts on Inspire Pain and Motivate Retribution except that balancing for level 1 is hard.

Offline Garryl

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Re: [D&D 3.5 + Homebrew] Shattered Gates of Slaughtergarde
« Reply #21 on: July 06, 2017, 01:13:51 AM »
Oops. I forgot that sufficient temp hp will make you conscious, which defeats the purpose of removing the Diehard element from Motivate Endurance. Need to either rework the temp hp part, which would probably make an aura with lots of moving parts even more complicated, or replace it with something else entirely.

Offline Stratovarius

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Re: [D&D 3.5 + Homebrew] Shattered Gates of Slaughtergarde
« Reply #22 on: July 06, 2017, 07:57:36 AM »
Quick comments:

Motivate Retribution is 2x the damage of the Commander's Energy Shield, and you were worried that Energy Shield was too strong, even though it's also typed damage and affected by DR. So based on that, Retribution needs a nerf.

Inspire Pain I would agree with the changes, although if you're really worried about damage, make it lock to non-lethal for the first level or two.

Motivate Endurance doesn't specify what the bonus to AC is. Assumption is aura bonus, but that's not called out anywhere. And I would honestly just ditch the temp hp mechanic and replace it with something less likely to cause mechanical quandaries, like healing. Also, the way its written is odd, because it means that someone fully healthy, except with only 4.5 hp a level (a wizard with crappy con, for ex), gets bonus THP above their natural maximum. Not sure if that's intentional.

You also might consider stealing the Crusader's Delay Damage pool mechanic instead of the THP one. Just suggestions, though.

Offline Garryl

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Re: [D&D 3.5 + Homebrew] Shattered Gates of Slaughtergarde
« Reply #23 on: July 06, 2017, 12:23:31 PM »
Almost forgot, I also want to change the Aura Focus feat (+1 bonus and +2 DC to a single aura). Similar to Strat's commander's feats, giving it a minimum level requirement (probably 3rd) will keep it out of the hands of 1st level characters.

One other minor consideration (that is enough to push me to get things updated and try to move this discussion to the thread it really should be in) is that marshal auras alone are extraordinary abilities, rather than supernatural. That's why all of the damaging marshal auras say they ignore DR. It also means that incorporeal creatures are immune. I'm not sure what (if anything) should be done about this.

I finally got around to updating the aura classes homebrew thread, yay.

Quick comments:

Motivate Retribution is 2x the damage of the Commander's Energy Shield, and you were worried that Energy Shield was too strong, even though it's also typed damage and affected by DR. So based on that, Retribution needs a nerf.

Probably, although my concerns with the commander's version were amplified by the version that could get +4 (8 damage) or higher at level 1. It didn't come up in conversation, but while I was a little wary of the temporary iteration your character at the time was using (+2 at 1st level w/ the feat, 4 damage), it was in a similar boat in my mind; watch and see.

This recent discussion has made me less enamored with the mechanic in general, though. I might ultimately end up changing it out for something else entirely.

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Inspire Pain I would agree with the changes, although if you're really worried about damage, make it lock to non-lethal for the first level or two.

I don't see how changing it to nonlethal damage affects the auras power level. Creatures drop with the same total damage either way.

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Motivate Endurance doesn't specify what the bonus to AC is. Assumption is aura bonus, but that's not called out anywhere. And I would honestly just ditch the temp hp mechanic and replace it with something less likely to cause mechanical quandaries, like healing. Also, the way its written is odd, because it means that someone fully healthy, except with only 4.5 hp a level (a wizard with crappy con, for ex), gets bonus THP above their natural maximum. Not sure if that's intentional.

You also might consider stealing the Crusader's Delay Damage pool mechanic instead of the THP one. Just suggestions, though.

The wording of the AC bonus is the same as all the other auras that give simple bonuses and penalties. Yes, it's equal to the aura bonus.

Offline Stratovarius

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Re: [D&D 3.5 + Homebrew] Shattered Gates of Slaughtergarde
« Reply #24 on: July 06, 2017, 01:25:55 PM »
A number of low level creature types are immune to non-lethal (step right up, undead!) or otherwise treat it differently than lethal damage.

Motivate Endurance has determined right before that sentence that "bonus" is equal to 5x "aura bonus". In fact, that would be the only place in the entire aura that "bonus" does not equal 5x "aura bonus", since it's that same 5x value later on. As Nanshork will tell you as well (he's told me enough), specify the value.

Offline Nanshork

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Re: [D&D 3.5 + Homebrew] Shattered Gates of Slaughtergarde
« Reply #25 on: July 06, 2017, 03:25:35 PM »
A number of low level creature types are immune to non-lethal (step right up, undead!) or otherwise treat it differently than lethal damage.

Motivate Endurance has determined right before that sentence that "bonus" is equal to 5x "aura bonus". In fact, that would be the only place in the entire aura that "bonus" does not equal 5x "aura bonus", since it's that same 5x value later on. As Nanshork will tell you as well (he's told me enough), specify the value.

Make me sound like a nag why don't you.  :P

Offline Stratovarius

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Re: [D&D 3.5 + Homebrew] Shattered Gates of Slaughtergarde
« Reply #26 on: July 06, 2017, 03:58:30 PM »
Make me sound like a nag why don't you.  :P

Am I wrong? :P

Offline Nanshork

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Re: [D&D 3.5 + Homebrew] Shattered Gates of Slaughtergarde
« Reply #27 on: July 06, 2017, 04:19:29 PM »
Make me sound like a nag why don't you.  :P

Am I wrong? :P

Making sure people know what you mean is important!  I would say that the way the adjusted Motivate Endurance is written is acceptable to me though.  :P

Offline Garryl

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Re: [D&D 3.5 + Homebrew] Shattered Gates of Slaughtergarde
« Reply #28 on: July 06, 2017, 05:02:19 PM »
A number of low level creature types are immune to non-lethal (step right up, undead!) or otherwise treat it differently than lethal damage.

It's just undead and constructs, right? Most of those are mindless, anyways, which means they're already immune to auras in general. Although I am thinking about making it mind-affecting anyways at first (which is actually even more restrictive), assuming I don't jump on some of the new ideas I have and replace the aura with a new one entirely.

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Motivate Endurance has determined right before that sentence that "bonus" is equal to 5x "aura bonus". In fact, that would be the only place in the entire aura that "bonus" does not equal 5x "aura bonus", since it's that same 5x value later on. As Nanshork will tell you as well (he's told me enough), specify the value.

I see what you're getting at. Multiple different values do confuse the matter.

Offline dman

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Re: [D&D 3.5 + Homebrew] Shattered Gates of Slaughtergarde
« Reply #29 on: July 09, 2017, 10:42:56 PM »
What about a boost to CON? That would grant hp that scales with level, boost saves to be tough and stabilize, and help be all endurancey. +3 +1/bonus gives 2 hp at 1st level, 24 at 8th,  64 at 16th, and the hp run out on a per day basis while the aura is active. That's a little bookkeeping, but it seems good and thematic without being game breaking. It could also grant extra healing surges when it's on.

Offline dman

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Re: [D&D 3.5 + Homebrew] Shattered Gates of Slaughtergarde
« Reply #30 on: July 09, 2017, 11:54:07 PM »
Also, Strat, I read your Commander class. They are very cool.

Offline Garryl

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Re: [D&D 3.5 + Homebrew] Shattered Gates of Slaughtergarde
« Reply #31 on: July 10, 2017, 12:29:03 AM »
Hey Dman. We've got a PbP board now, so you can post your character there when you're ready.

The latest discussion regarding marshal changes has been moved to the Aura Classes thread, now that I have it up and running again. I've got a few ideas regarding some of the other auras that you might want to weigh in on.

Offline Stratovarius

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Re: [D&D 3.5 + Homebrew] Shattered Gates of Slaughtergarde
« Reply #32 on: July 10, 2017, 06:36:00 AM »
Also, Strat, I read your Commander class. They are very cool.

Thanks. Hoping this time the game doesn't die.

Offline Nanshork

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Re: [D&D 3.5 + Homebrew] Shattered Gates of Slaughtergarde
« Reply #33 on: July 10, 2017, 01:16:23 PM »
dman, are you dman11235?  If so, why the new account?

Offline dman

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Re: [D&D 3.5 + Homebrew] Shattered Gates of Slaughtergarde
« Reply #34 on: July 10, 2017, 01:53:15 PM »
No, that's not me, but I'm sure he's cool too.  :)

Offline dman

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Re: [D&D 3.5 + Homebrew] Shattered Gates of Slaughtergarde
« Reply #35 on: July 10, 2017, 02:04:15 PM »
Thanks. I wondered why everything went quite for so long.