Author Topic: Thri-Kreen  (Read 1284 times)

Offline WarHunter

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 60
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: Thri-Kreen
« Reply #20 on: December 06, 2018, 10:28:23 PM »
Ok I might swap one for claw with hunter mind but I think it's fine the way it is.

Offline oslecamo

  • Honorary Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 9466
  • Creating monsters for my Realm of Darkness
    • View Profile
    • Oslecamo's Custom Library (my homebrew)
Re: Thri-Kreen
« Reply #21 on: December 08, 2018, 02:32:37 AM »
Hunter Mind is not very clear about what the benefit is supposed to be. I think the intention is that the powers you manifest randomly won't cost power points, but the text really could use some cleaning up.

Mental Feasting is really imba since it allows you to easily recharge pp between battles just killing rats or some other critter you can carry around in bags in big numbers.

And reminder about the flaws:trait.
Will take a closer look sometime in the weekend but for now just to say two of the flaws are awfully cheesy. You can run multiple sessions if not full campaigns without meeting a single elf (heck I myself can't remember the last time I've used one and as for being a player I think there may be one elf in Bhu's campaign once several quests ago), while nonswimmer is not only pretty rare, a measly -4 penalty to swim checks hardly counts for anything.

Also Xenophilic's trait bonus is unclear, "gain a plus 2 to insight bonus to non kreen", eeerrr there's no insight skill in 3.X, that's a type of bonus but needs something to apply to. :psyduck.

Offline WarHunter

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 60
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: Thri-Kreen
« Reply #22 on: December 08, 2018, 06:57:01 PM »
Some flaws and trait drawbacks are completely avoidable. Murky eyes is a penalty to range combat- easy dont do range. As a DM would have to approve it I'm sure they will try to exploite it if it is taken.

also i'm pretty sure i mentioned it doesn't work on things with low intelligence like rats. supposely if it has atleast a 3 it should be able to talk. shall i move it up to atleast a 10 intellengence?

yep thats what hunter mind does
« Last Edit: December 09, 2018, 06:51:49 AM by WarHunter »

Offline oslecamo

  • Honorary Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 9466
  • Creating monsters for my Realm of Darkness
    • View Profile
    • Oslecamo's Custom Library (my homebrew)
Re: Thri-Kreen
« Reply #23 on: December 10, 2018, 09:55:30 PM »
Some flaws and trait drawbacks are completely avoidable. Murky eyes is a penalty to range combat- easy dont do range. As a DM would have to approve it I'm sure they will try to exploite it if it is taken.
Limiting yourself to never using anything ranged is a pretty significant limitation on the player, even melee characters sometimes can't reach an opponent and want to pull a bow. But expecting the DM to reshape the whole campaign to make sure there's elves around every corner that somehow the party can't just get away with killing is not very nice, neither is anything that throws more work on the DM's side.

Nonswimmer is even worst because a -4 penalty on a skill is just too weak of a drawback. Compare it to Inattentive that applies the same penalty to two skills, it's literally twice as crippling in a vaccuum, then you need to take in account spot and listen are actually skills one can be expected to roll in every session at any campaign, often multiple times per session.

Look, I can understand the desire to make fluffy flaws. But it's just bad design and bad rules and bad for actual gameplay.  Need to eat elves will either be a non-factor or get the party hunted down by the high elven council and either way it's bad.

Plus, if the player really wants their character to murderize elven babies, then that should be an active decision from the player, not left to random dice rolls.

also i'm pretty sure i mentioned it doesn't work on things with low intelligence like rats. supposely if it has atleast a 3 it should be able to talk. shall i move it up to atleast a 10 intellengence?
Missed the int prerequisite, but then you're still basically rewarding the player for going full psycho and enslaving weak villages to use as sacrificial batteries. And your "flaw" above is exactly the opposite when you're actively rewarding the PC for eating people. "Oh, I need to make a will save or kill those elves? I just auto-fail, was gonna kill them anyway to refuel my psionics lol".

Would strongly suggest just replacing it with something else, there's already too much PP recovery shenigans in the game.

yep thats what hunter mind does

It's still not very clear and took me multiple readings.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2018, 10:44:05 PM by oslecamo »

Offline WarHunter

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 60
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: Thri-Kreen
« Reply #24 on: December 11, 2018, 12:17:35 AM »
Do you think there is any way to make these fluff flaws work?

I am not aware of any power point recovery mechanisms.

I'll take another go at hunter mind.

Offline oslecamo

  • Honorary Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 9466
  • Creating monsters for my Realm of Darkness
    • View Profile
    • Oslecamo's Custom Library (my homebrew)
Re: Thri-Kreen
« Reply #25 on: December 16, 2018, 04:45:18 AM »
Do you think there is any way to make these fluff flaws work?
Yes, you leave them at just that-fluff. Write some description on how most thri-kreen like baby elf burgers and dislike swimming, and if the player feels like derailing the campaign by attacking that elven orphanage, then that's their own decision, not a random roll.

I am not aware of any power point recovery mechanisms.
There's guides in this very forum.

And if there didn't exist any other pp recovery cheese, that would just make yours even more OP since psionics is all about going nova burning through PP as fast as possible so anything that gets them pp back boosts their power stupidly.

I'll take another go at hunter mind.
Ok, let us know when it's updated.

Offline WarHunter

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 60
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: Thri-Kreen
« Reply #26 on: December 17, 2018, 03:23:51 AM »
It would be easier to rewrite hunter mind if you told me what you had terrible understanding about it, been messing with the fluff flaws.

Offline oslecamo

  • Honorary Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 9466
  • Creating monsters for my Realm of Darkness
    • View Profile
    • Oslecamo's Custom Library (my homebrew)
Re: Thri-Kreen
« Reply #27 on: December 18, 2018, 02:15:02 AM »
The new version of the baby elf barbecue actually approaches reasonable since it shouldn't derail the campaign outside of combat. It's still extra work for the DM but just adding an elf to a battle now and then is closer to sanity levels. Would be further improved by removing the random roll and just making it an always-on penalty when there's an elf nearby.

Would strongly suggest you do something similar for the non-swimmer feat, give the thri-kreen some fat penalties for just being near any big body of water. Being waist deep is still close to irrelevant because most dungeons don't even have any water on them.

Quote
Hunter Mind: by expending two uses of Psionic focus as a swift action you can change into Chaotic Psionic creature that has only hunting on its mind, doing this cancels psionic uncanny dodge, improved psionic dodge and Pack Mind. This state last for a number of rounds equal to 3+HD. When activating Hunter Mind roll to randomly select powers that you know from being a Psy-kreen that are marked with (*) to activate, can only activated a number of powers this way that their combined power level is equal or below the psy-Kreen's HD. (Assign each power that meets the requirements to a number or range of numbers so all the options have equal chance of being rolled)
So let's try to figure out what the hell's going here:
-"Activating" Hunter's Mind "activates" random powers because I heard you like activations so you can activate when you activate. But the Hunter's Mind activation has a cost but the random powers activation has no cost? Who knows? I only extrapolated that because otherwise the ability has no benefit at all.
-You still have mental feasting there so it's a completely moot ability, you already have all the power points you could ever want. Who cares if you need to sacrifice innocents? Psionics can literally turn extra PP into extra actions so you can take on anybody and everybody with mental feasting, you're already unstoppable, hunter's mind is completely superfluous. 
-Assuming you fix Mental Feasting for something reasonable (which spammable pp recharging isn't) I can't think of any easy way of determining the random powers either, do you just keep re-rolling until you get a combination that perfectly matches HD, game crawls to an halt if this is ever used.

Quote
After using Hunter Mind you are dazed and exhausted.
Forever?

Offline WarHunter

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 60
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: Thri-Kreen
« Reply #28 on: December 18, 2018, 01:33:13 PM »
Thanks for the input, there is no power point cost for hunter mind other than 2 psionic focuses being expended and some class features turning off. No rerolls else it wouldn't be random, limited pentalies of after use.

Limited mental feasting power points, targets, and a condition that you have used up all the hunter mind uses.

Removed the will save from elven flesh addition. How are they suppose to drown in water less than their waist level, they can die from drowning.

Offline Nanshork

  • Homebrew Reviewer
  • *****
  • Posts: 11431
    • View Profile
Re: Thri-Kreen
« Reply #29 on: December 18, 2018, 05:03:40 PM »
Humans drown in water less than waist deep all the time.

Offline WarHunter

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 60
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: Thri-Kreen
« Reply #30 on: December 20, 2018, 04:14:49 PM »
By being horizontal.

Offline Nanshork

  • Homebrew Reviewer
  • *****
  • Posts: 11431
    • View Profile
Re: Thri-Kreen
« Reply #31 on: December 20, 2018, 08:37:27 PM »
And?  You say that as if Kreen can't be horizontal.

Offline WarHunter

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 60
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: Thri-Kreen
« Reply #32 on: December 21, 2018, 10:16:45 AM »
If they are horizontal that would change the height of their waist.

Offline Nanshork

  • Homebrew Reviewer
  • *****
  • Posts: 11431
    • View Profile
Re: Thri-Kreen
« Reply #33 on: December 22, 2018, 12:38:01 AM »
 :lmao

So you want to use a general term that doesn't even have a standard definition as something with actual rules text?  A kreen who sits down or kneels suddenly gains penalties?  What if I just say that my kreen has abnormally long legs (and thus a higher "waist height") since that's all fluff and can be decided upon by the player?

I can't speak for Os but I would never allow that kind of vagueness in my games.

Offline WarHunter

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 60
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: Thri-Kreen
« Reply #34 on: December 22, 2018, 10:11:26 PM »
Well most dm I think would just bring the water level up to become a problem. I'll do some research on it.

So I was trying to go for game rules for representing spiracles along the thorax/abdomen so do you have a better way of working it in?
« Last Edit: December 22, 2018, 10:21:10 PM by WarHunter »

Offline Nanshork

  • Homebrew Reviewer
  • *****
  • Posts: 11431
    • View Profile
Re: Thri-Kreen
« Reply #35 on: December 22, 2018, 10:44:28 PM »
The easiest way to do it would be to either have an absolute height to the water or a set volume of water.  Also, I agree with Os, this is super specific for a flaw and very easy to negate.

This is just a suggestion (and I'm not Os so I have no authority here), but I'd do something like this:

Nonswimmer requirements: you are a thri-kreen that doesn't have a swim speed or ever placed any skill points in swimming.
Effect: You cannot take 10 on swim checks and whenever you are within [pick a distance] of [something something body of water] you are shaken.


Not taking 10 on swim checks plus no swim ranks plus no swim speed means that drowning is a big possibility.  As written, the second round the kreen is in the water their hp is reduced to 0 which is way too much IMO, I hadn't actually read the text of the flaw before.


Edit: If you are really sold on the spiracles concept I'd make it holding breath as if fully submerged instead of drowning (and reference spiracles in the text because I had no idea that those were a thing and so other people won't now either).

Offline oslecamo

  • Honorary Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 9466
  • Creating monsters for my Realm of Darkness
    • View Profile
    • Oslecamo's Custom Library (my homebrew)
Re: Thri-Kreen
« Reply #36 on: December 23, 2018, 12:01:17 AM »
As Nanshork said, except that instead of Shaken just a flat -X penalty to rolls because there's plenty of easy ways to become immune to Shaken itself and one's kinda expected to become immune to fear eventually.

Offline WarHunter

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 60
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: Thri-Kreen
« Reply #37 on: December 23, 2018, 09:37:15 PM »
How about -4 to attack rolls -2 to skills and saves and can not hold breath?

Offline oslecamo

  • Honorary Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 9466
  • Creating monsters for my Realm of Darkness
    • View Profile
    • Oslecamo's Custom Library (my homebrew)
Re: Thri-Kreen
« Reply #38 on: January 06, 2019, 12:02:37 AM »
Sounds reasonable.