Author Topic: [D&D 3.5 + Homebrew] The Eye of the Sun  (Read 2141 times)

Offline VennDygrem

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Re: [D&D 3.5 + Homebrew] The Eye of the Sun
« Reply #60 on: July 10, 2017, 09:22:06 AM »
Toss it up here, we can sling a few suggestions at it.

It's still very much the same chassis, which is to say I'm still basing it roughly off a combination of the Warlock and the PF Alchemist, and aiming roughly for tier 3: Good at what it does, and a good asset to the team without being overpowered or spread too thin.

The basic idea revolves around creating explosives, infiltration, and some general spy-work above and beyond the purview of a rogue. I tried to address the relatively limited damage capability of the warlock base, but failed to properly balance it. I have a tendency to go too powerful to start with my classes and scale back, though that doesn't always work out for me.

I've got some ideas I'm working with, so I'll try to upload them sometime.

Offline Nanshork

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Re: [D&D 3.5 + Homebrew] The Eye of the Sun
« Reply #61 on: July 10, 2017, 10:35:48 AM »
You want to know what I did for you people?

I went through all 59 pages of homebrew material, and every sub-board.  Every.  Single.  One.  Because I needed a skill based class that doesn't reference mechanics outside of core.

And you know what?

I'm going to play a Spellsinger.


Sirp, you've got a lot of homebrew that isn't in your signature thread just fyi.

If you want to wait another few weeks/months/years, I've got a ranger rework in the pipe that might scratch your itch for a skill class. Check back in 2019, I'll let you know how it's coming.

Alright everyone, time to postpone the game.   :p

Offline Stratovarius

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Re: [D&D 3.5 + Homebrew] The Eye of the Sun
« Reply #62 on: July 10, 2017, 11:14:02 AM »
Alright Venn, you've got Nanshork's spot. He'll be ready in time for the next PbP one-shot. :lmao

Anyway, do we need a thread or two to start sticking characters etc into?

Offline Nanshork

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Re: [D&D 3.5 + Homebrew] The Eye of the Sun
« Reply #63 on: July 10, 2017, 11:14:39 AM »
Alright Venn, you've got Nanshork's spot. He'll be ready in time for the next PbP one-shot. :lmao

 :shakefist

Offline Stratovarius

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Re: [D&D 3.5 + Homebrew] The Eye of the Sun
« Reply #64 on: July 10, 2017, 11:34:34 AM »
If you need help with your spellsinger, btw, just ask. In some ways, it's a class that doesn't allow a ton of options for an "optimal" build.

Offline VennDygrem

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Re: [D&D 3.5 + Homebrew] The Eye of the Sun
« Reply #65 on: July 10, 2017, 12:06:39 PM »
I'll admit, I'm rather intrigued about how the spellsinger works in play as well! It'll be fun to see it in action. :)

By the way, Strat, how long do you plan for this one-shot to go for? Does it include any expected level-ups, or is it really just a short adventure?

Offline Stratovarius

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Re: [D&D 3.5 + Homebrew] The Eye of the Sun
« Reply #66 on: July 10, 2017, 12:10:51 PM »
The plan is a single short adventure, then it's done. However, should people be very desirous to keep going, it may do so.

I actually got to play a Spellsinger in the Setras Ra campaign (which obviously didn't finish) due to our player who was going to be one dropping out right before game start. At early levels, they're fairly powerful, or at least as good as an archer with a composite longbow. Where they compare with a Warmage (the closest WotC class in terms of functionality) I'm not sure.

Offline sirpercival

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Re: [D&D 3.5 + Homebrew] The Eye of the Sun
« Reply #67 on: July 10, 2017, 03:09:12 PM »
Venn, I'm abandoning the con artist thing, because then I can use Cha as a dump stat. :)

For my Ætherforge, I get 5 forgings at 3rd level. I can do mostly 1-æther forgings, but if I take the Force Æther feat, I can do a 2-æther forging and take 2d8 damage. I can't do a LOT of those, but if we have a source of easy out-of-combat healing, I can do it with a long-duration buff or two.

Ætherforge as a class is best at buffing, with a smattering of everything else (BFC, direct damage, summoning, etc.). Thoughts on forging choices:
  • I'm definitely taking Æther Reinforcement (since it goes really well with the Dwærrow racial sub level).
  • V's Monk doesn't flurry, so I'm not sure Ætherfire Aura is worth it, unless Garryl gets a ton of attacks from whatever kind of Spellshaper he has.
  • Since we're probably going to be pretty low on melee, I'm thinking I should pick either Ætherbeast or Weapon of Æther... While I'd normally say the former isn't as useful because of the low duration, if I'm doing Force Æther I can make it Persistent and we can have an Ætherbeast just carry our shit around or whatever. I can even give it a fly speed. Downside, if it dies, I'll take 2d8 damage to bring it back again.
  • Æther Shard is probably not worth it, since Garryl will be able to do ranged damage all day, better.
  • Æther Push is basically my best bet for BFC, so that seems like a good idea.

Any other comments from anyone?
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Offline Garryl

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Re: [D&D 3.5 + Homebrew] The Eye of the Sun
« Reply #68 on: July 10, 2017, 03:41:32 PM »
Venn, I'm abandoning the con artist thing, because then I can use Cha as a dump stat. :)

For my Ætherforge, I get 5 forgings at 3rd level. I can do mostly 1-æther forgings, but if I take the Force Æther feat, I can do a 2-æther forging and take 2d8 damage. I can't do a LOT of those, but if we have a source of easy out-of-combat healing, I can do it with a long-duration buff or two.

Ætherforge as a class is best at buffing, with a smattering of everything else (BFC, direct damage, summoning, etc.). Thoughts on forging choices:
  • I'm definitely taking Æther Reinforcement (since it goes really well with the Dwærrow racial sub level).
  • V's Monk doesn't flurry, so I'm not sure Ætherfire Aura is worth it, unless Garryl gets a ton of attacks from whatever kind of Spellshaper he has.
  • Since we're probably going to be pretty low on melee, I'm thinking I should pick either Ætherbeast or Weapon of Æther... While I'd normally say the former isn't as useful because of the low duration, if I'm doing Force Æther I can make it Persistent and we can have an Ætherbeast just carry our shit around or whatever. I can even give it a fly speed. Downside, if it dies, I'll take 2d8 damage to bring it back again.
  • Æther Shard is probably not worth it, since Garryl will be able to do ranged damage all day, better.
  • Æther Push is basically my best bet for BFC, so that seems like a good idea.

Any other comments from anyone?

I'm going to be very spellcastery, so no, I won't be making tons of attacks. I do intend to take care of party healing. For a feat I can get an aura of fast healing 1 (all the way up to full, unlike many similar auras), and at least one of my formula choices can do Devoted Spirit-like healing.

Edit: Bah, accidentally hit post before I was finished.

Definitely get Ætherbeast. Astral constructs are great. Not the least of which, give them Improved Bull Rush from menu A and they're like an Æther Push with only a slightly lower modifier (+2, or +4 on a charge) that doesn't need a touch attack and also sticks around for a couple of rounds to keep bull rushing or hitting things.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2017, 03:52:13 PM by Garryl »

Offline VennDygrem

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Re: [D&D 3.5 + Homebrew] The Eye of the Sun
« Reply #69 on: July 10, 2017, 04:01:45 PM »
If we were starting at a higher level, I'd be able to do some passable healing as well, but it is not to be. Garryl, I'm looking forward to trying this class out at higher levels to see what it can really accomplish. :)

SirP: No worries, I dumped Cha myself anyway. I'll just go back to my original concept of the life-debt type thing with whichever character might want a bodyguard or business partner. :D

Regarding lack of flurry, while I can't flurry like a monk, I get full BAB and one of my available pressure strikes allows me to attack two adjacent enemies at full force, which is nice so long as I gang up on some goons with myself. Not sure which other pressure strikes to go with, but I'm thinking Deadly Reach for 20' reach is a great choice, even if it's not as far as a legitimate ranged weapon, it gives me a bit more flexibility. Leg Sweep is also probably a good choice, or possibly Scorpion Claw (Prone vs. Grappled...); Decisions, decisions...

Offline Nanshork

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Re: [D&D 3.5 + Homebrew] The Eye of the Sun
« Reply #70 on: July 10, 2017, 04:11:04 PM »
I agree on Astral Construct goodness.

Offline Stratovarius

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Re: [D&D 3.5 + Homebrew] The Eye of the Sun
« Reply #71 on: July 10, 2017, 04:12:27 PM »
I'm going to be very spellcastery, so no, I won't be making tons of attacks. I do intend to take care of party healing. For a feat I can get an aura of fast healing 1 (all the way up to full, unlike many similar auras), and at least one of my formula choices can do Devoted Spirit-like healing.

Just so you know, I may consider slapping the same 50% HP restriction on this as on other auras. There's quite a large difference between entering every encounter at full health and being forced to expend resources to stay in top shape.

Offline Garryl

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Re: [D&D 3.5 + Homebrew] The Eye of the Sun
« Reply #72 on: July 10, 2017, 05:29:31 PM »
I'm going to be very spellcastery, so no, I won't be making tons of attacks. I do intend to take care of party healing. For a feat I can get an aura of fast healing 1 (all the way up to full, unlike many similar auras), and at least one of my formula choices can do Devoted Spirit-like healing.

Just so you know, I may consider slapping the same 50% HP restriction on this as on other auras. There's quite a large difference between entering every encounter at full health and being forced to expend resources to stay in top shape.

Thanks for the heads up. There are some formulas in Astral Essence that also seem to enable unlimited out of combat healing that you might need to do the same thing to. I actually found it strange that they got left like that, since I think I remember some discussions REALLY early on in Spellshaping's development about some Natural Balance formulas that did the same thing and were eventually replaced.

In any case, that does mean I'll definitely need to pick up the in-combat healing formulae from Devouring Shadow. Here's my short list of formulae to pick. I get 9 formulae *7 1st level, 2 2nd level) from up to 7 of the 16 circles. Out of combat healing requires either Heavenly Alignment from Astral Essence or any from Natural Balance + a feat for the numen.
(click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: July 10, 2017, 05:35:59 PM by Garryl »

Offline Stratovarius

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Re: [D&D 3.5 + Homebrew] The Eye of the Sun
« Reply #73 on: July 10, 2017, 05:38:04 PM »
Thanks for the heads up. There are some formulas in Astral Essence that also seem to enable unlimited out of combat healing that you might need to do the same thing to. I actually found it strange that they got left like that, since I think I remember some discussions REALLY early on in Spellshaping's development about some Natural Balance formulas that did the same thing and were eventually replaced.

In any case, that does mean I'll definitely need to pick up the in-combat healing formulae from Devouring Shadow. Here's my short list of formulae to pick. I get 9 formulae from up to 7 of the 16 circles. Out of combat healing requires either Heavenly Alignment from Astral Essence or any from Natural Balance + a feat for the numen.

I'm probably going to regret this but I don't see anything major with the various formulae that could be that much of a problem.

However, any infinite Out of Combat healing will probably hit that 50% cap. I've run into it enough on my own material (because I originally thought it wasn't a huge deal) to know that at lower levels it can change a campaign from difficult to walkover. Best to at least err on the side of caution.

Offline sirpercival

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Re: [D&D 3.5 + Homebrew] The Eye of the Sun
« Reply #74 on: July 10, 2017, 06:55:03 PM »
I'm going to be very spellcastery, so no, I won't be making tons of attacks. I do intend to take care of party healing. For a feat I can get an aura of fast healing 1 (all the way up to full, unlike many similar auras), and at least one of my formula choices can do Devoted Spirit-like healing.

Edit: Bah, accidentally hit post before I was finished.

Definitely get Ætherbeast. Astral constructs are great. Not the least of which, give them Improved Bull Rush from menu A and they're like an Æther Push with only a slightly lower modifier (+2, or +4 on a charge) that doesn't need a touch attack and also sticks around for a couple of rounds to keep bull rushing or hitting things.

OK so I can definitely rock Force Æther, even with a nerf to that healing aura. That'll make Persistent Ætherbeasts a thing.

Garryl, you have a lot of direct damage and a fair amount of buffs, SoD, and a bit of BFC. I think I actually am going to take Ætherfire Aura, since it's not limited to melee attacks, so it can buff your spellshape attacks, too. And I can throw it on our Ætherbeast of burden.

Æther Probe seems like a good idea, unless I'm missing something and someone else has detect magic.

So the current list is: buff AC, minions, bonus damage, and detect magic.

That leaves room for one more, my options are: buff saves, buff base speed, ranged bull rush, ranged attack (not worth it IMO), or weapon of æther. Thoughts?
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Offline Garryl

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Re: [D&D 3.5 + Homebrew] The Eye of the Sun
« Reply #75 on: July 10, 2017, 09:30:45 PM »
I'm going to be very spellcastery, so no, I won't be making tons of attacks. I do intend to take care of party healing. For a feat I can get an aura of fast healing 1 (all the way up to full, unlike many similar auras), and at least one of my formula choices can do Devoted Spirit-like healing.

Edit: Bah, accidentally hit post before I was finished.

Definitely get Ætherbeast. Astral constructs are great. Not the least of which, give them Improved Bull Rush from menu A and they're like an Æther Push with only a slightly lower modifier (+2, or +4 on a charge) that doesn't need a touch attack and also sticks around for a couple of rounds to keep bull rushing or hitting things.

OK so I can definitely rock Force Æther, even with a nerf to that healing aura. That'll make Persistent Ætherbeasts a thing.

Garryl, you have a lot of direct damage and a fair amount of buffs, SoD, and a bit of BFC. I think I actually am going to take Ætherfire Aura, since it's not limited to melee attacks, so it can buff your spellshape attacks, too. And I can throw it on our Ætherbeast of burden.

Too many things to do, not enough actions to do them with.

My current combat plan is sculpted formulae for AoE. It'll be around 2d6 damage in an AoE, Reflex half, plus any of the rider effects from the formulae on a failed save (although most of those allow another save, too). Can't do 2nd-level major formulae with Sculpt Spellshape, so I'm currently planning on using my 2nd-level formulae for some nice swift action buffs.

Quote
Æther Probe seems like a good idea, unless I'm missing something and someone else has detect magic.

Yo. Int mod/day detect magic as an SLA, and I have 1 Sor/Wiz spell I can cast per day for identify (it's an SLA, but expensive components are retained and I can't cast spells with xp components).

Æther Probe might not be necessary, but it could still be worthwhile for skipping the material components on identify if you have a free forging for it.

Quote
So the current list is: buff AC, minions, bonus damage, and detect magic.

That leaves room for one more, my options are: buff saves, buff base speed, ranged bull rush, ranged attack (not worth it IMO), or weapon of æther. Thoughts?

Make sure you have something to do each round, although really that could just be cycling through astral constructs.

Offline sirpercival

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Re: [D&D 3.5 + Homebrew] The Eye of the Sun
« Reply #76 on: July 11, 2017, 11:05:15 AM »
Too many things to do, not enough actions to do them with.

My current combat plan is sculpted formulae for AoE. It'll be around 2d6 damage in an AoE, Reflex half, plus any of the rider effects from the formulae on a failed save (although most of those allow another save, too). Can't do 2nd-level major formulae with Sculpt Spellshape, so I'm currently planning on using my 2nd-level formulae for some nice swift action buffs.
Hm. Well, I think Ætherfire Aura is still a good pickup, between Venn and the Ætherbeasts.

Quote
Quote
Æther Probe seems like a good idea, unless I'm missing something and someone else has detect magic.

Yo. Int mod/day detect magic as an SLA, and I have 1 Sor/Wiz spell I can cast per day for identify (it's an SLA, but expensive components are retained and I can't cast spells with xp components).

Æther Probe might not be necessary, but it could still be worthwhile for skipping the material components on identify if you have a free forging for it.
If that's the only reason to take it, then no. We can get Forging Beads of Æther Probe for 25gp a pop.

Quote
Quote
So the current list is: buff AC, minions, bonus damage, and detect magic.

That leaves room for one more, my options are: buff saves, buff base speed, ranged bull rush, ranged attack (not worth it IMO), or weapon of æther. Thoughts?

Make sure you have something to do each round, although really that could just be cycling through astral constructs.
So I have two spots, after dropping Probe. I'm inclined to do one of the two buffs (whichever we like better), and then either Push or Weapon. Weapon might be nice if we need more firepower, but I really like the idea of Push. Push also scales better with higher levels -
 Weapon doesn't really get more powerful, though it gives me something to do with move actions, and I can have several and make them Persistent starting at 4th. But Push just becomes larger and better at pushing people around.

Oh man, if we had a Dungeoncrasher Fighter, I could do some Imbue Forgings on Æther Push and the DCF could use them. LOL.
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Offline VennDygrem

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Re: [D&D 3.5 + Homebrew] The Eye of the Sun
« Reply #77 on: July 11, 2017, 12:22:14 PM »
I am somewhat concerned that I may not be quite as effective as some of the other members of the group due to current discussion topics, certainly far as my being a front-line melee figure. The benefit is I'm not terribly equipment-reliant at this level, but I also feel like I may not be as effective as a Fighter/Barbarian type with a big pointy stick. That said, I can certainly do some things that they can't. Then again, the other low-level characters I've played recently (such as my Savage) have felt somewhat less than useful as well in some circumstances, and that tends not to be the case in the end.

By the way, Strat, do you have a ruling on Garryl's Combat Martial Arts feat?

Offline Stratovarius

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Re: [D&D 3.5 + Homebrew] The Eye of the Sun
« Reply #78 on: July 11, 2017, 12:30:06 PM »
I am somewhat concerned that I may not be quite as effective as some of the other members of the group due to current discussion topics, certainly far as my being a front-line melee figure. The benefit is I'm not terribly equipment-reliant at this level, but I also feel like I may not be as effective as a Fighter/Barbarian type with a big pointy stick. That said, I can certainly do some things that they can't. Then again, the other low-level characters I've played recently (such as my Savage) have felt somewhat less than useful as well in some circumstances, and that tends not to be the case in the end.

By the way, Strat, do you have a ruling on Garryl's Combat Martial Arts feat?
Go ahead on the feat.

I should also point out that on average, Cade was a 1HK on each and every enemy he faced. So your record in my games tends to involve much slaughter and good dice rolling. I suspect that will continue.

Offline VennDygrem

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Re: [D&D 3.5 + Homebrew] The Eye of the Sun
« Reply #79 on: July 11, 2017, 03:43:13 PM »
To be fair, Cade is running around with a nice, big 2d8 axe called a treebreaker, and adding elemental damage on top of that.  :lmao

My monk, at 3rd level, has 1d6 unarmed strikes and maybe some minor bonus damage from SirP, or some fire damage if I go with that one Precision Strike. That said, the monk also has a (limited) range option, can fall slowly and move through limiting terrain more easily, can attack two adjacent enemies, and a few other nice goodies. He definitely doesn't hit as hard as Cade does, and he's not as tough despite his good AC.

It's a mixed bag, and you really can't compare apples and oranges. I'm happy with the monk, and I definitely look forward to putting it through its paces.