Author Topic: A Min/Max Challenge  (Read 3253 times)

Offline Surreal

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Re: A Min/Max Challenge
« Reply #40 on: October 15, 2017, 11:25:34 PM »
Is there really much of a difference, in the end? :P

The vampire gets Dominate Person. With enough energy drains and circumstance modifiers, you start willingly failing those saving throws until that clause that protects you from self-harm doesn't apply anymore.

Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: A Min/Max Challenge
« Reply #41 on: October 16, 2017, 01:26:34 PM »
The succubus gets Charm Monster and Energy Drain... So... I guess the ability to force someone to self harm really is the only difference, eh? :p
I don't pee messages into the snow often , but when I do , it's in Cyrillic with Fake Viagra.  Stay frosty my friends.

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: A Min/Max Challenge
« Reply #42 on: October 16, 2017, 01:32:08 PM »
If you're charming enough you can convince anyone to try a little self harm ;)
Would you die if you jumped from my perceived ego to your IQ? - Is 15secs of confirmation bias a goal post worth arguing for? - Ever asked a "victim" what they did to deserve it? - Are the words teen, SJW, & liberal synonyms? - "Only Sith deals in absolutes" contains a misspelled word.

Offline Keldar

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Re: A Min/Max Challenge
« Reply #43 on: October 17, 2017, 03:08:41 AM »
The only difference between a Succubus and a Vampire, is with a Vampire you get second date in 1d4 Days.

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: A Min/Max Challenge
« Reply #44 on: October 17, 2017, 05:15:06 PM »
Do you wanna go out as a Top, or
do you wanna go out as a Bottom forever ...
avatar#3 , gravitational lensing edition ... I'm way on the other side of the universe but look like pretty rings

Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: A Min/Max Challenge
« Reply #45 on: October 17, 2017, 08:49:17 PM »
Do you wanna go out as a Top, or
do you wanna go out as a Bottom forever ...
:lol
I don't pee messages into the snow often , but when I do , it's in Cyrillic with Fake Viagra.  Stay frosty my friends.

Offline popanas

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Re: A Min/Max Challenge
« Reply #46 on: February 16, 2018, 02:53:21 PM »
Challenge accepted.

Offline PlzBreakMyCampaign

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Re: A Min/Max Challenge
« Reply #47 on: February 20, 2018, 10:58:36 PM »
This thread is a poster child for why my ECL variant is required for any kind of balanced play with monsters. Even then its got too many RHD for my variant to save you: it's a centaur with LA inflation.

Offline Keldar

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Re: A Min/Max Challenge
« Reply #48 on: February 20, 2018, 11:20:56 PM »
This thread is a poster child for why my ECL variant is required for any kind of balanced play with monsters. Even then its got too many RHD for my variant to save you: it's a centaur with LA inflation.
You could get everything and then some at the same level by making a Centaur Totemist.  Even with the bog standard ECL rules.

Offline popanas

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Re: A Min/Max Challenge
« Reply #49 on: February 27, 2018, 04:18:12 PM »
If we were able to make something viable out of a truenamer, well we can do something with anything. This is not too hard in fact, the main objective is just to make it relevent for a group of lvl 16 character, so we want to make him able to take on a chalenge rating 16 or 17 by himself. What follows is an interesting solution to it. (With very slight roleplay for the character.)

First we redo his stats with the classic 32 point buy as follow (including all bonuses from items, levels, etc... (R = racial, E = enchancement, I = inherent)
STR   17   +8R+6E+4I+3lvl   38   +14
DEX   13   +2R            15   +2
CON   16   +2R+2E+2I      22   +6
INT   8   -2R            6   -2
WIS   8   +4R            12   +1
CHA   12   +4R            16   +3

Then for his feats, we first take 2 flaws to increase the number of feats available and take the following for an interesting combo.
Flaw1-   exotic weapon proficiency Ribbon light mace Required for lightning mace
Flaw2-   Two weapon fighting Required for lightning mace
1-      weapon focus ribbon light mace Required for lightning mace
3-      Combat reflexes Required for lightning mace
6-      Lightning mace The bread and butter
9-      Leadership To get a kaorti Marshal 1, Fiend of possession 6, uncanny trickster 3
12-      Improved cohort To add a crusader level to our Fiend of possession


Then we need to take care of his equipment, and by abusing custom items we can give him some very interesting gear as follow
16th   260,000 gp
48000    Boots of lion's charge Custom item giving lion charge permanently
40000    Enervating arm +4 str inherent bonus DC 14 against negative level Much cheaper than wiches
19500    +1 keen aptitude kaorti Great falchion,  3d6,  15–20/×4,  —,  24 lb.,  Slashing His main weapon, possessed by the FoP
19500    +1 keen aptitude kaorti Great falchion,  3d6,  15–20/×4,  —,  24 lb.,  Slashing His second weapon... wait... 2 2handers?
16170   +1 Gleaming Leather armor Good source of miss chance
36000   Belt of str +6 no comment
4000      Necklace of con +2 no comment
8000    Strong legs +2 inherent to con Cheaper than upgrading the +2 ench to +4
8000      Gloves of the balance hand ITWF, prety cheap
10000   Power attack bracer acording to arms and equipment guide
45000   cloak of Girralon blessing Custom item giving girralon blessing permanently

500      Everlasting ration Carrying food is lame
5000      Small manor in a random metropolis
330      coffee and cookies for his Mob and cohort ;)

Now for combat, let's see the quick numbers, take into account that we crit on a 15 for x4 damage and another attack at the same bonus
Melee attack = 12BAB+1Weapon focus -4 twf +14 STR + enchant up to 9 for the main and only +1 for the second
Damage = 3d6+21STR+enchant

Leadership score   +21, Great renown, Fairness and generosity, special power, bought a house in the city
Great Renown, he's renowned as being the leader of the Scorpion Mob in a random metropolis
Fairness and Generosity, He doesn't care much for the loot that drops of his ennemy, his troop thought he was fair and generous because of it
Special power, Unlike his whole race he's not completely useless
Has a manor in a random metropolis , which is the base of operation for the Scorpion Mob

Special notes:
-Even when optimised his CR is only 7, which is a great deal if we want to add a truenamer cohort, the cohort will be able to do stuff unlike most of the times
-The FoP can give the marshal bonus to the charge which can be substancial, especially if we consider the stance for the crusader, just make sure to add shape soulmeld shedu crown and open least chackra crown
-It is clear that most of the time monstrous character are, at most, equivalent to a tier 5 class
-With his lvl 1 follower you can in fact make a mob from the DMG2, which is of a higher chalenge rating than a regular scorpionfolk


And down here is the reference for the Racial stuff
Scorpionfolk characters possess the following racial traits.

+8 Strength, +2 Dexterity, +2 Constitution, -2 Intelligence, +4 Wisdom. +4 Charisma.
Large size. -1 penalty to Armor Class, -1 penalty on attack rolls, -4 penalty on Hide checks, +4 bonus on grapple checks, lifting and carrying limits double those of Medium characters.
Space/Reach: 10 feet/5 feet.
A scorpionfolk’s base land speed is 40 feet.
Darkvision out to 60 feet.
Fire Resistance 5
Spell Resistance 18
Racial Hit Dice: A scorpionfolk begins with twelve levels of monstrous humanoid, which provide 12d8 Hit Dice, a base attack bonus of +12, and base saving throw bonuses of Fort +4, Ref +8, and Will +8.
Racial Skills: A scorpionfolk’s monstrous humanoid levels give it skill points equal to 15 × (2 + Int modifier). Its class skills are Diplomacy, Spot, Intimidate, Listen and Sense Motive
Racial Feats: A scorpion’s monstrous humanoid levels give it five feats.
+6 natural armor bonus.
Automatic Languages: Common, Terran. Bonus Languages: any.
Favored Class: Ranger.
Level adjustment +4.

Trample (Ex)
1d8+1.5str Reflex half DC 10+1/2HD+STR. The save DC is Strength-based.

Poison (Ex)
A scorpionfolk delivers its poison (Fortitude save DC 10+1/2HD+CON) with each successful sting attack. The initial and secondary damage is 1d4 points of Dexterity damage.

Spell-Like Abilities
1/day - major image; 2/day - mirror image, Caster level 10th; save DC 12 + spell level.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2018, 04:27:57 PM by popanas »

Offline Keldar

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Re: A Min/Max Challenge
« Reply #50 on: February 28, 2018, 03:18:26 AM »
Lets give a Turkey Benchmark

Jive the stable boy
Human Commoner 16  32 PB, PC wealth 260,000
Base: Str 16 Dex 14 Con 16 Int/Wis/Cha 10
Modified: Str  26 (+4 level, +6 Ench ) Dex () Con 18 (+2 Ench)  Int () Wis() Cha 8 (-2 Pathetic)
BAB 8 F/R/W 5  HD 16d4+64 (Avg 104)  AC- Utterly irrelevant
Skill Handle Animal/Ride- 19 ranks each, Listen/Spot 9 each, Craft (Leatherworking) 1 rank
Feats:
H- Mounted Combat
Flaw - Ride By Attack (Murkey Eyed or Chicken Infested)
Flaw- Spirited Charge (Pathetic Charisma or Weresheep)
1- Power Attack (Can't use, but can take)
3- Weapon Proficiency -Lance
6-  Combat Reflexes (3 AoOs)
9- Improved Bull Rush
12- Shock Trooper
15- Meh.  Landlord for retirement

Gear:
32,300 +3 Valorous Lance
36,000 Girdle of Giant Strength +6
4,000 Amulet of Constitution +2
24,000 Minor Cloak of Displacement (20% miss)
3,000 Horseshoes of speed (30 Enh move)
50,000 Pheonix Cloak (Mic, for horse)
4,100 Armbands of Might
106,600 A herd of warhorses, potions of delay death and whatever.  Or custom bullshit items.

Charges every round for +21 to hit 1d8+33x4 (x5 on a crit)  with 10' reach  Avg 149.  Nontrivial combat ability on a half assed commoner.  And contributes for the first 15 levels too.  Rides a flying damn horse.
If you aren't better than Jive, you're a complete Turkey.

Offline popanas

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Re: A Min/Max Challenge
« Reply #51 on: February 28, 2018, 05:29:56 AM »
I did mention it was an interesting option, not the most optimal option. It`s clear that the best option is a charger, especially with the 38 STR. The point is saying that even with racial hit dices and level adjust, you can do a good fighter. Doing a caster is a different story.