Author Topic: [3.5] Question about Grapple  (Read 599 times)

Offline Risada

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[3.5] Question about Grapple
« on: November 24, 2017, 09:12:40 AM »
So, I tried looking for the Ask a Simple Question, but didn't find it.

Anyway, I have a question regarding monsters using grapple .

In a game session I was in, my wizard polymorphed one of his summoned critters into a Treant and said wooden critter engaged in a grapple against a medium humanoid creature 15 ft away.

The DM ruled that he could make an AoO against the arm and avoid the grapple.

I tried arguing that he did not have reach for that but I was rule zero'd away.

Now I come here asking your help.

Base on the situation above and the rules regarding monster grappling posted below:

Rules of the Game - All about grappling part 4 -
Monsters in a grapple may use their natural weapons, but only by using the “Attack Your Opponent” option (which applies a –4 penalty on the attack roll). When using the “Damage Your Opponent” option, the creature deals unarmed strike damage appropriate to its size (see Part 2 of this column)

Some options available while grappling (such as “Damage Your Opponent” and “Pin Your Opponent”) state that they may be used in place of an attack. The monster gets as many “attacks” in a full attack action as it would get if it were attacking with a weapon, based on its base attack bonus: +1 to +5, one attack; +6 to +10, two attacks; +11 to +15, three attacks, and +16 and up, four attacks. Each one after the first would suffer a cumulative –5 penalty on the roll (just like a character with a high BAB making multiple weapon attacks).

For example, a dire tiger (BAB +12) grappling a PC would be allowed three separate attempts to damage its opponent, escape from the grapple, or pin its opponent; the second would take a –5 penalty on the grapple check, while the third would take a –10 penalty.

The treant can make the grapple if the targeted creature is within his range or the defender can AoO his way out regardless of the defender's reach?

Offline snakeman830

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Re: [3.5] Question about Grapple
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2017, 04:03:44 PM »
Starting the grapple can be done from the limits of the creature's reach, but I do believe you can't make an AoO against a creature you don't threaten.
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Offline ketaro

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Re: [3.5] Question about Grapple
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2017, 06:00:46 PM »
Really, its correct to say you can not make an AoO on a creature that YOU do not threaten despite them doing something that would provoke one such as with Grapple explicitly because they are doing it with Reach.

At the same time it is thematically weird that you can't react to a 10 foot tentacle or a 100 foot tentacle or anything in between as it comes at you to initiate a Grapple.

So while you are correct, Risada, I personally prefer it the other way. Mind you, I've never done it that way in games I've DMed unless I'm the one with Reach and the Player is the one asking if they can still counter that with an AoO. It sounds fairer from that direction because I'm the DM and have infinite monsters so I wouldn't mind but the other way around feels very unfair because the Players don't have the infinite resources the DM has and so if they jumped through the loop of gaining Reach temporarily or doing like you and spending resources to summon a monster without reach and then spending more resources to polymorph it into something with Reach, well as the DM I would feel incredibly dickish to them shut that down like your DM did.

But I ramble.  :D