Author Topic: Silly uses for unlimited undead minions.  (Read 588 times)

Offline Nytemare3701

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Silly uses for unlimited undead minions.
« on: December 27, 2017, 05:23:48 AM »
Relevant ability:
Quote from: Pale Master
Deathless Master's Touch: A living foe of up to one size category larger than a pale master hit by the pale master's touch attack must succeed on a Fortitude save or die. A slain creature automatically animates 1 round later as a zombie and is under the pale master's control as if he had animated it. Undead created using this power do not count against a pale master's HD total for controlling undead.
3 uses per day, with a respectable save (caps at 20+Cha without outside modification).

This means that anything that can be zombified can be assumed to be one of your minions as long as its fortitude save is lower than your charisma modifier.

What do you do with NI minor minions? You can fit 40,000 Hairy Spiders in a Type 4 bag of holding, but only 40 of them can attack a target at once. They could get surprisingly deadly though once they get the zombification bonuses (it says "as if he had animated it", so I assume necromancy buffs work here).

On the other end of the spectrum, what's the beefiest thing you can grab with this? Let's say under +12 fortitude (30 Cha, 2 from ability Focus). Unfortunately, most things that make good zombies have good fortitude saves...

Going by the bad save formula (HD/3, which is Humanoids, Monstrous Humanoids, Fey, and Abberations), there's probably some 30HD monsters out there that are solid by sheer virtue of being 30HD, even with zombified bodies...
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« Last Edit: December 27, 2017, 05:54:26 AM by Nytemare3701 »
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Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Silly uses for unlimited undead minions.
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2017, 05:57:18 PM »
On the other end of the spectrum, what's the beefiest thing you can grab with this?
Veil of Allure adds +2 to any Cha-based Save DC (BoVD has a feat that'll work on the PM's other animate dead through) so really it's mostly all about improving Charisma.

So what kind of loops do you want? PAO? Race/Template? Simple Spell bonuses are pretty simple and work great with Dragon Mag's Fell Energy and I think the other one is called Ability Augmentation or something. Plus there are some misc deals like the Worm of Minauros and Luhix. It's not to hard to get close to a hundred without any loops or even using Item Alteration.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2017, 06:01:13 PM by SorO_Lost »
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Offline Keldar

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Re: Silly uses for unlimited undead minions.
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2018, 01:22:25 AM »
For powerful undead, why not lead with a Bestow Curse or two followed by some Con damage?

Offline Nytemare3701

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Re: Silly uses for unlimited undead minions.
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2018, 03:14:14 PM »
For powerful undead, why not lead with a Bestow Curse or two followed by some Con damage?

The goal here was to see what number has 100% success rate, so it can be assumed to happen off-camera, then see what can be done with them.
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Offline snakeman830

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Re: Silly uses for unlimited undead minions.
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2018, 05:26:01 PM »
Well, nothing will have 100% success rate because there's always a 5% chance they just succeed on the save regardless with a nat 20, but assuming the 95% success rate, it really depends on how high you boost the save.  So far we have DC24+Cha mod (with Ability Focus and Veil of Allure).
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Offline Nytemare3701

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Re: Silly uses for unlimited undead minions.
« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2018, 06:05:19 PM »
Well, nothing will have 100% success rate because there's always a 5% chance they just succeed on the save regardless with a nat 20, but assuming the 95% success rate, it really depends on how high you boost the save.  So far we have DC24+Cha mod (with Ability Focus and Veil of Allure).

Fair. 30 Charisma (18+Race+Book+Item) isn't unreasonable, so 34 is a solid number to work from.
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Offline snakeman830

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Re: Silly uses for unlimited undead minions.
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2018, 11:34:14 PM »
Checking again, since the save DC is based on your Pale Master level, bloodlines should count.  Can get it up to 37 with a major bloodline, though depending on interpretation (and there are many) you would give up 9th level spells for it.  Moderate bloodline still gets you +2 save DC and 9th level spells.

Alternatively Legacy Champion works.  Sorcerer 6/Pale Master 10/Legacy Champion 4 nets a save DC of 23+ Cha mod.  Wizard base gets a point higher, though that gets harder to work stat-wise.  This requires less guesswork on rules.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2018, 11:40:01 PM by snakeman830 »
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Offline Nytemare3701

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Re: Silly uses for unlimited undead minions.
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2018, 02:05:38 AM »
Checking again, since the save DC is based on your Pale Master level, bloodlines should count.  Can get it up to 37 with a major bloodline, though depending on interpretation (and there are many) you would give up 9th level spells for it.  Moderate bloodline still gets you +2 save DC and 9th level spells.

Alternatively Legacy Champion works.  Sorcerer 6/Pale Master 10/Legacy Champion 4 nets a save DC of 23+ Cha mod.  Wizard base gets a point higher, though that gets harder to work stat-wise.  This requires less guesswork on rules.

While interesting, Going from "unlimited minions of considerable power" to "unlimited minions of extreme power" is kind of a degrees of infinity thing. I'm more interested at this point with what the average player could do with an "organic" Pale Master (Dread Necro 5/Pale Master10, 30 charisma, 4DC from feats). Stuff that any character that stumbled into the class and put even a little effort into could do. This seems like such a huge tool for so many things.

If it was me, I'd be taking Landlord (and reaping the free labor), then awakening a few choice creatures and using them as PCs when I felt like a change of pace.

Leaving the Pale Minister in charge of the newborn undead nation seems good, especially if someone starts a rumor that he's vulnerable to being assassinated (Oh look, a steady supply of people with class levels and a poor fortitude save that nobody knows was in your castle).

Combine with Soro's suggestion in another thread about using the Shriver to become nigh-invulnerable to HP damage and you have an eternal emperor of sorts.
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Offline nijineko

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Re: Silly uses for unlimited undead minions.
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2018, 08:35:15 PM »
This, only with skeletons.

Ooooor, you could form a band! Dead Zeppelin, or maybe the Grateful Dead, with a twist of TMNT

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You DID say silly, right? :plotting
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Offline Nytemare3701

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