Author Topic: Non-Evil, Non-Leadership Massive Stat Cheese  (Read 924 times)

Tempestfury

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Non-Evil, Non-Leadership Massive Stat Cheese
« on: January 02, 2018, 04:36:39 PM »
Greetings there, I've been making a Level 15 character for a Cheese Happy Game, and honestly, so far it's been pretty fun. I've used the 'True Dilettante' to give my self a solid 90 feats to play around with, as well as a merging off Porn, the Steel Dragon and the Omnielemental for a powerful, crafting and spellcasting build, augmented with Nanobot-powered Node Spellcasting for very high Caster Levels! Heck, I'm also willing to use Festering Anger Lad to give myself a significant Strength boost! See my current build here

Unfortunately... whilst in other games, I would be a very powerful force. In this game? I am weak. Very, very weak. Hence why I have turned to the Min/Max forums for aid in my quest to upgrade my character. But as the title says, there's a catch.

I don't want to use evil methods, such as consuming thousands of other beings using an Illithid Savant. Nor do I want to murder hundreds of innocents with Consumptive Field to ramp up my Caster Level to insane levels. Nor do I want to use Leadership/Thrallherd Shenanigans to have ridiculously powered allies and use them to make myself strong. My character is a very independant character all things considered. Hence, under the limits of the rules posted at the start of the thread is there any way to start buffing up my character's stats and/or Caster Level in order to be at least semi-competitive?

Rules of Note
1. The Level/HD Limit of 15 is a hard limit. I am not allowed to permanently have more than 15 HD/Levels at the start of the game.
2. Gold Available is WBL: 200,000gp. Whilst it has been said that you can use Wish Abuse to defeat this WBL, it is very highly suggested that you don't do so.
3. Experience costs for pretty much everything is a non-issue using the Level-Drain/Restoration trick as explain at the bottom of this post
4. I have a Demiplane with every single non-evil metamagic automatically applied to my spells cast there, and it has a 1:5259600 Time Raitio, and I can spend a total of 115 Martial Plane Days inside off it.
5. I don't have access to River's Ravages, but my DM ruled that Bestow Curse, Greater Bestow Curse, and Miracle/Wish replication of those spells stack. Allowing me to jump from Wyrmling to Ancient Dragon.
6. Epic Feats are available as an Ancient Dragon, I can have 8 Epic Feats at any one time.
7. Via a self-simulacrum, and casting Dragonblood Spell-Pact on each other, I have permanent access to any and all non-druid 6th level spells or lower, and as an Ancient Dragon, I have access to any and all non-druid spells.
8. The Class build is non-negotiable, but feats, items and spells are.
9. The Homebrew Cunning Artiface allows me to indefinitely reuse scrolls, staffs, wands etc. However, I can only use this feat once per hour.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2018, 05:32:25 PM by Tempestfury »

Offline TC X0 Lt 0X

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Re: Non-Evil, Non-Leadership Massive Stat Cheese
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2018, 06:21:09 PM »
Given the nature of the game and your build goals, it might be more appropriate to be posting this over in You Break it You Buy it.
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Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Non-Evil, Non-Leadership Massive Stat Cheese
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2018, 06:21:50 PM »
You've referenced a Soro build = he's done quite a few Mega Stat builds, most of which should work just fine, with your not-evil restriction.  They are scattered around here'bouts.


Advanced Dragons have a rather specific Caster Level based bonus Improved Spell Capacity boost.  That's good fromage no matter how ripe-y you slice it.
Caster Level --- A great wyrm’s caster level increases by 2 for every virtual age category the dragon gains. As with the epic dragons described later, advanced dragons gain the Improved Spell Capacity feat as a bonus feat once for every three caster levels above 20th.
From --> http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/dragonAdvanced.htm


Might Makes Right feat, stuck onto all that Str = "not Leadership" (ahem, cough)
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Offline TC X0 Lt 0X

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Re: Non-Evil, Non-Leadership Massive Stat Cheese
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2018, 06:37:38 PM »
Given the nature of the game and your build goals, it might be more appropriate to be posting this over in You Break it You Buy it.

What's the difference exactly? Done anyway.


It is where most of the cheesiest stuff is quarantinedposted usually.
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Offline nijineko

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Re: Non-Evil, Non-Leadership Massive Stat Cheese
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2018, 08:30:44 PM »
Should've used psionics is all I can say. ^^
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Offline nijineko

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Re: Non-Evil, Non-Leadership Massive Stat Cheese
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2018, 02:27:03 PM »
Should've used psionics is all I can say. ^^

I can make Simulacrums/Ice Assassin's of creatures with Natural Psionic casting. So whilst I personally don't have access to Psionics, I can get full access to it if need be. Especially as there's nothing stopping my Psionic creatures from making Power Stones and the like, which I can then use with UMD/UPD.

lol.

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Offline Nytemare3701

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Re: Non-Evil, Non-Leadership Massive Stat Cheese
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2018, 10:02:13 PM »
My go-to answer when it comes to high stakes cheesefests is to not be there in the first place.

I'm not saying not to play, I'm saying that you should never be playing your main character. Simulacrums, clones, astral projections, golems with a remote control, whatever. Figure out how to make it a negligible cost and keep throwing ECL-2 versions of yourself at a problem until it goes away. It's the brute force method of scrying.
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Offline Archon

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Re: Non-Evil, Non-Leadership Massive Stat Cheese
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2018, 10:08:07 PM »
My go-to answer when it comes to high stakes cheesefests is to not be there in the first place.

I'm not saying not to play, I'm saying that you should never be playing your main character. Simulacrums, clones, astral projections, golems with a remote control, whatever. Figure out how to make it a negligible cost and keep throwing ECL-2 versions of yourself at a problem until it goes away. It's the brute force method of scrying.

All the Proxies! I like this plan.

Offline Nytemare3701

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Re: Non-Evil, Non-Leadership Massive Stat Cheese
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2018, 10:39:54 PM »
My go-to answer when it comes to high stakes cheesefests is to not be there in the first place.

I'm not saying not to play, I'm saying that you should never be playing your main character. Simulacrums, clones, astral projections, golems with a remote control, whatever. Figure out how to make it a negligible cost and keep throwing ECL-2 versions of yourself at a problem until it goes away. It's the brute force method of scrying.

All the Proxies! I like this plan.

Personally, I suggest abusing the hell out of the technicalities of range and things like portable holes. Certain brands of portable hole can be nested, so make a labyrinth of them and put your real body in one of the totally random branches. While portable holes are open, they are in the same contiguous space as the plane they are placed on, so you are still on the material plane and can use any proxy method that requires you to be on the same plane. If your method of choice has a more limited leash, get creative with it's attachment.

Fill the pit with Dispelling Screens/Illusory pits/etc.

If you HAVE to bring your real body, at least shapechange into a Zodar or something to become immune to hitpoint damage.

Quote
Paranoia
- 1/Day Stasis Clone
- Pact of Return
("Slain due to the failure of all non-pact, non-stasis clone contingencies")
- Pact of Return
("True self slain or unmade by deific power while a clone is still available.")
Utility Spells
- 1/Day Ice Assassin
- 1/Day Dream Image
- 1/Day Mind Rape
- Pact of Return
("Slain due to the failures of all my other non-pact contingencies")
- Pact of Return
("True self slain or unmade by deific power")
^Just as an example stack
« Last Edit: January 05, 2018, 02:11:04 AM by Nytemare3701 »
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Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Non-Evil, Non-Leadership Massive Stat Cheese
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2018, 12:27:48 AM »
You can replace Mind Rape with Programmed Amnesia (sp) since it's non-evil.

I won't have net back for awhile so I have to browse and type all my responses on my phone or I'd have all kinds of suggestions. Best I can do now it look up my Class Booster thread's 2nd post for the highest value of each bonus type I could find and combine that with Dragon's Ability Enhancer and Fell Energy, both increase bonuses to Ability Scores. Like Rightous Aura will give a +8 Sacred bonus to Charisma.

Post #7 or so of my enlightenment seris covers some broken things. Like using Planar Bubble on a creature from your custom Plane. ;)
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Offline Nytemare3701

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Re: Non-Evil, Non-Leadership Massive Stat Cheese
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2018, 08:05:42 PM »
Well, thank you very much for all of the suggestions, and I most certainly will take them all into consideration! I have managed to find a way to solve the Ability Score issue. Shambling Mounds gain basically infinite Con if you keep hitting it with electricity and nothing but electricity. Fuse with it. Astral Seed and boom. Very high Con which I can then retrain into my other ability scores!

And Astral Seed and Fusion are crafted by my Great Wyrm Topaz Dragon Simulacrum. I'll look into this nightmare-ish Pact of Return combo your discussing in-game...

How does one retrain an ability score bonus? I wasn't under the impression that retraining just let's you change your choices, not arbitrarily shift things around.
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Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Non-Evil, Non-Leadership Massive Stat Cheese
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2018, 10:36:09 PM »
Also if you were even allowed to do that why bother trying to loop thing like that, you already gain a ton of Ability boosts with TD aging anyway.
Would you die if you jumped from my perceived ego to your IQ? - Is 15secs of confirmation bias a goal post worth arguing for? - Ever asked a "victim" what they did to deserve it? - Are the words teen, SJW, & liberal synonyms? - "Only Sith deals in absolutes" contains a misspelled word.