Author Topic: Party Needs Help  (Read 631 times)

Offline SleepyShadow

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Party Needs Help
« on: January 24, 2018, 02:13:58 PM »
Hey guys, I need some advice on helping out my party's team composition. Our healer/utility caster got killed (again), and we don't have the cash to get a Raise Dead. So she needs a new character. The problems that we have are 1) our healer doesn't really want to roll up another support-type caster just to get axed again by bad party decisions, and 2) our party is a mixture of stinky cheese and hot garbage. I'm trying to help her figure out something that will genuinely help the party without being the same sort of character as last time.

The party currently consists of:

  • Knight 9/Crusader 2: Uses a one-handed reach weapon, a tower shield, thicket of blades, and standstill. More or less what one would expect the knight to do.
  • Monk 2/Ninja 3/Rokugan Ninja 3/Fist of the Forest 3: Off-tank, trapmonkey, and primary source of damage for the party. The group is dangerously reliant on him.
  • Sorcerer 11: Literally knows only transmutation spells. Lack of flexibility is an increasing issue.
  • Sorcerer 6/Elemental Savant 4: Fire mage, hyper focused, and down a level due to dying. Good damage ... until SR, Fire Resist, or Evasion kick in.
  • Swordsage 1/Warblade 7: Monkey-grips an oversized fullblade because DAKKA! Usual routine is to kill something and then get dropped. Down several levels because he only shows up to half of the sessions.

All 3.5 material is kosher by our DM, and any help is greatly appreciated. Thank you!
« Last Edit: January 25, 2018, 10:05:05 PM by SleepyShadow »

Offline Skyrock

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Re: Party Needs Help
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2018, 02:37:43 PM »
It would be greatly helpful to know what class(es) the old character was if we are to avoid repetition.

Offline SleepyShadow

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Re: Party Needs Help
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2018, 02:57:42 PM »
It would be greatly helpful to know what class(es) the old character was if we are to avoid repetition.

Good idea. Sorry about that. She was a Shugenja (focused on earth and water spells) with some oddball prestige class that ultimately didn't matter because it advanced spellcasting. Unfortunately not a big fan of clerics or druids.

Offline Skyrock

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Re: Party Needs Help
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2018, 03:16:46 PM »
Does she dislike Clerics and Druids for being prepared spell-casters and prefer spontaneous casters? There are spontaneous variants of Clerics and Druids in UA, which might solve that issue (although they are effectively downgrades). And there is also Favoured Soul, but that is another huge downgrade of the already downgraded spontaneous Cleric.

How viable are wands to carry healing duty? From you being too poor to afford a Raise Dead at around level 11, I assume that your WBL is heavily screwed, but I better want to check before I make bad suggestions.

One that I had a lot of fun with was Warmage / Prestige Bard. Spontaneous access to the entire bard spell list (which is a huge swiss army knife in and of itself), and some inspiring tunes on top of it. (I had also spliced some Warlock and Eldritch Theurge into that build to supplement spell-casting with some at-will abilities, but that isn't a necessity.)

Factotum might also be worth a look. It can toss around some healing (or turning attempts, which in turn can go into devotion feats), and arcane dilettante can carry the weight of utility casting, especially if there are 15 minutes to check the spellbook again.

Offline SleepyShadow

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Re: Party Needs Help
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2018, 04:27:28 PM »
Our WBL is extremely crippled. We have about 1200 gp in cash between all party members, and characters that get brought in (regardless of level) can't buy magic gear with starting wealth. Furthermore, any unspent character creation money gets taken away. This was bad enough when we started the campaign at level 4, but trying to bring in a new level 11 character without magical equipment is going to be a nightmare. I'm just glad my ninja doesn't need equipment to function.

I don't know the exact reason behind disliking clerics and druids, but I think she likes spontaneous casters better because it's less bookkeeping than a prepared caster. I'll suggest the warmage/bard idea.

Offline TC X0 Lt 0X

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Re: Party Needs Help
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2018, 05:00:08 PM »
You also have 2 martial adepts already, so you could suggest a Crusader if she wants to keep on healing in some capacity. It doesnt offer much in utility though, and with the rest of the comp it doesnt look like anybody else can either.

I would also 2nd the Factotum, they can work in any group, though the healing is not amazing (Sacred Healing feat can cover some OoC Healing if character has decent Cha)
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Offline Skyrock

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Re: Party Needs Help
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2018, 05:11:40 PM »
Speaking of OoC healing, the feats Touch of Healing and Draconic Aura (Vigor) are tremendous money- and spellslot-savers in such an item-starved group. Heal HP up to 50% of the max for free for the price of a slow pace.

Offline SleepyShadow

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Re: Party Needs Help
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2018, 05:51:49 PM »
Her last character had Touch of Healing, as well as Augment Healing and Mastery of Day and Night. We're definitely going to miss her old character lol

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Party Needs Help
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2018, 06:16:02 PM »
I don't know the exact reason behind disliking clerics and druids, but I think she likes spontaneous casters better because it's less bookkeeping than a prepared caster. I'll suggest the warmage/bard idea.
You have a fighter, two arcanes, two thieves, no money, and are already reporting you'll miss the healing and think it's all because she hates Prepared Casting.

Easy solution? Favored Soul or Evangelist out of Dragon Magazine #311 page 52 if that's allowed. The Evangelist is a better version of the FvS since it's pure Wisdom-based but the short gist of it is Cleric's stats, Sorcerer's Spellcasting Progression, neither of their Class Features but gets two Domains (which add extra spells known) and gets a new Domain every five levels.

Alternatively since this is a level 12 game you can have her use Divine Crusader which is a divine accelerated spontaneous casting PrC.
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Offline Solo

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Re: Party Needs Help
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2018, 11:33:14 PM »
Hey guys, I need some advice on helping out my party's team composition. Our healer/utility caster got killed (again), and we don't have the cash to get a Raise Dead. So she needs a new character. The problems that we have are 1) our healer doesn't really want to roll up another support-type caster just to get axed again by bad party decisions, and 2) our party is a mixture of stinky cheese and hot garbage. I'm trying to help her figure out something that will genuinely help the party without being the same sort of character as last time.

The party currently consists of:

  • Knight 9/Crusader 2: Uses a one-handed reach weapon, a tower shield, thicket of blades, and standstill. More or less what one would expect the knight to do.
  • Monk 2/Ninja 3/Rokugan Ninja 3/Fist of the Forest 3: Off-tank, trapmonkey, and primary source of damage for the party. The group is dangerously reliant on him.
  • Sorcerer 11: Literally knows only transmutation spells. Lack of flexibility is an increasing issue.
  • Sorcerer 6/Elemental Savant 4: Fire mage, hyper focused, and down a level due to dying. Good damage ... until SR, Fire Resist, or Evasion kick in.
  • Swordsage 1/Warblade 7: Monkey-grips an oversized fullblade because DAKKA! Usual routine is to kill something and then get dropped. Down several levels because he only shows up to half of the sessions.

All 3.5 material is kosher by our DM, and any help is greatly appreciated. Thank you!

Bard 10/Marshal 1

« Last Edit: January 24, 2018, 11:41:33 PM by Solo »
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Offline SleepyShadow

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Re: Party Needs Help
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2018, 12:05:00 PM »
You also have 2 martial adepts already, so you could suggest a Crusader if she wants to keep on healing in some capacity. It doesnt offer much in utility though, and with the rest of the comp it doesnt look like anybody else can either.

Having the healing was really nice, but it's the utility spells that I'm going to miss most of all. Guess we didn't realize how much we had been relying on her up to this point.

You have a fighter, two arcanes, two thieves, no money, and are already reporting you'll miss the healing and think it's all because she hates Prepared Casting.

Easy solution? Favored Soul or Evangelist out of Dragon Magazine #311 page 52 if that's allowed. The Evangelist is a better version of the FvS since it's pure Wisdom-based but the short gist of it is Cleric's stats, Sorcerer's Spellcasting Progression, neither of their Class Features but gets two Domains (which add extra spells known) and gets a new Domain every five levels.

Alternatively since this is a level 12 game you can have her use Divine Crusader which is a divine accelerated spontaneous casting PrC.

I doubt she'd be interested in Divine Crusader. Getting her to play a melee character is like pulling teeth. Favored Soul might be something she'd be interested in, though. I'd have to check with the DM on the Evangelist.

Bard 10/Marshal 1

I know she likes bards (except for Dragonfire Inspiration types, for whatever reason). I'll run the idea by her.

Offline SleepyShadow

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Re: Party Needs Help
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2018, 10:10:46 PM »
So, I give up. She rolled up a Rokugan Samurai/Dragon Shaman focused in archery. I don't even understand why, but she seems happy with it.

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Party Needs Help
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2018, 10:19:05 PM »
So, I give up. She rolled up a Rokugan Samurai/Dragon Shaman focused in archery. I don't even understand why, but she seems happy with it.
Don't let it bug you. You are not supposed to understand what goes on in a women's head anyway.  :P
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Offline SleepyShadow

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Re: Party Needs Help
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2018, 10:24:49 PM »
Don't let it bug you. You are not supposed to understand what goes on in a women's head anyway.  :P

Hah, fair enough. Thanks to everyone for all the suggestions.

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Party Needs Help
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2018, 02:48:12 PM »
 :???

The presumed gear schedule in PHB2
wants the party to have at least !! a
solid +3 on attack + ac + saves.

You / y'all are basically playing the
Lords Of Madness ultra tough campaign.
Vow Of Poverty feat for everyone, would
solve only some of the #'s problems.
And/or allow 2 or 3 PHB2 Rebuilds (!).

That said, with Solo posting, the 2 Sorcs
should be able to drop fire and brimstone,
including nearly all of the good spells.

The level 8 guy is oh so close to an Idiot Crusader.

Adept 2 decides the party is fulfilling their bosses'
goals, so tags along with normal NPC wbl devoted
completely to scrolls, no combat help at all, and
a Familiar to deliver emergency Heal checks.
 
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Offline SleepyShadow

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Re: Party Needs Help
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2018, 11:52:42 AM »
:???

The presumed gear schedule in PHB2
wants the party to have at least !! a
solid +3 on attack + ac + saves.

You / y'all are basically playing the
Lords Of Madness ultra tough campaign.
Vow Of Poverty feat for everyone, would
solve only some of the #'s problems.
And/or allow 2 or 3 PHB2 Rebuilds (!).

That said, with Solo posting, the 2 Sorcs
should be able to drop fire and brimstone,
including nearly all of the good spells.

The level 8 guy is oh so close to an Idiot Crusader.

Adept 2 decides the party is fulfilling their bosses'
goals, so tags along with normal NPC wbl devoted
completely to scrolls, no combat help at all, and
a Familiar to deliver emergency Heal checks.

At this point, I think everyone in the party would be happy even with NPC wealth. Our Knight didn't even get a +2 weapon until level 10, and I'm still running around with a +1 on my ninja. We can't rely on our sorcerers, and the DM has already told the group "No" on rebuilding (our transmuter asked). The party already had to spend what little cash we've gotten purchasing a bow with Dimensional Anchor, since our primary antagonist is a properly optimized Abjurant Champion succubus with a vampire wizard cohort. The deck is stacked against us six ways from Sunday.