Author Topic: Lightning Ricochet + Lion Totem Charge. How does it work?  (Read 196 times)

Offline Ryshin

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Lightning Ricochet + Lion Totem Charge. How does it work?
« on: May 03, 2018, 01:44:22 PM »
Pounce lets you make a full attack after charging.  Could you use the first attack to hit the guy you charged, then use Lightning Ricochet to throw your weapon at someone else entirely for the rest of your full attack, still gaining the bonuses from charging? 
Taking it a step further, do you even have to attack the person you charged?  Could you charge an ally (gaining the +2 to hit and any other bonuses you're entitled to), then just... attack someone else instead?

Plus does the attacks and the "secondary target" get the multiplier power attack bonus from leap attack if i'm in a position to threaten him since the bloodstorm blade gives me the ability to treat thrown attacks as melee attacks?

And generally (let's say i'm a 20lvl barbarian with no bloodstorm blade levels) if i make a charge with pounce and kill the primary target and he dies can i use the remainings attacks on an adiacent target if of course i'm in a position to hit him without moving?

Lightning Ricochet (Ex): From 4th level on, you can throw your weapon at a nearby foe and command it to immediately bounce back to your grasp. Any time you make a ranged attack with a thrown weapon on your turn, the weapon immediately returns to you, and you can catch it as a free action. This ability allows you to make a full attack entirely with thrown weapon attacks, or with a mix of thrown and melee attacks.


PS. Instead of creating a new one I changed the topic title and modified my 1st post since the initial question about blood wind ricochet + pounce charge was answered.

« Last Edit: May 04, 2018, 03:25:28 AM by Ryshin »

Offline linklord231

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Re: Blood Wind Ricochet + Lion Totem Charge. Does it work?
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2018, 02:40:59 PM »
No.  Both are full-round actions, and neither modifies the other.
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Offline Ryshin

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Re: Blood Wind Ricochet + Lion Totem Charge. Does it work?
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2018, 03:46:31 PM »
No.  Both are full-round actions, and neither modifies the other.
Ok thanks. What about Lightning Ricochet? When i get my weapon back can i throw it at a different target or always at the same one?

Lightning Ricochet (Ex): From 4th level on, you can throw your weapon at a nearby foe and command it to immediately bounce back to your grasp. Any time you make a ranged attack with a thrown weapon on your turn, the weapon immediately returns to you, and you can catch it as a free action. This ability allows you to make a full attack entirely with thrown weapon attacks, or with a mix of thrown and melee attacks.

Offline snakeman830

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Re: Blood Wind Ricochet + Lion Totem Charge. Does it work?
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2018, 07:27:06 PM »
No.  Both are full-round actions, and neither modifies the other.
Ok thanks. What about Lightning Ricochet? When i get my weapon back can i throw it at a different target or always at the same one?

Lightning Ricochet (Ex): From 4th level on, you can throw your weapon at a nearby foe and command it to immediately bounce back to your grasp. Any time you make a ranged attack with a thrown weapon on your turn, the weapon immediately returns to you, and you can catch it as a free action. This ability allows you to make a full attack entirely with thrown weapon attacks, or with a mix of thrown and melee attacks.
Lightning Ricochet can be used to split your attacks as you desire as normal with a full attack.  All it really changes from a normal thrown weapon full attack is that you can use the same weapon for all of it.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2018, 07:32:23 PM by snakeman830 »
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Offline Ryshin

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Re: Blood Wind Ricochet + Lion Totem Charge. Does it work?
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2018, 02:46:10 AM »
Quote
Lightning Ricochet can be used to split your attacks as you desire as normal with a full attack.  All it really changes from a normal thrown weapon full attack is that you can use the same weapon for all of it.

Ok so if i make a charge against a target and get bonus attacks because of lion totem and he dies after the 1st attack can i use Lightning Ricochet to throw my weapon at another target hitting him with the remainings attacks? Does these attacks get the multiplier power attack bonus from leap attack if i'm in a position to threaten him since the bloodstorm blade gives me the ability to treat thrown attacks as melee attacks?
« Last Edit: May 04, 2018, 03:10:10 AM by Ryshin »

Offline linklord231

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Re: Blood Wind Ricochet + Lion Totem Charge. Does it work?
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2018, 03:08:26 AM »
Quote
Lightning Ricochet can be used to split your attacks as you desire as normal with a full attack.  All it really changes from a normal thrown weapon full attack is that you can use the same weapon for all of it.

Sorry i don't get it when you say "split your attacks as you desire as normal" since normally with any weapon being a ranged or a melee you can only attack one designated target each round unless it's specified by a talent or was i playing wrong all these years?

You may have been playing it wrong. 
Quote from: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm
Full Attack

If you get more than one attack per round because your base attack bonus is high enough, because you fight with two weapons or a double weapon or for some special reason you must use a full-round action to get your additional attacks. You do not need to specify the targets of your attacks ahead of time. You can see how the earlier attacks turn out before assigning the later ones.

The only movement you can take during a full attack is a 5-foot step. You may take the step before, after, or between your attacks.

Emphasis mine.  Notice "targets" is plural; you can have more than one.  And if you kill someone with the second attack in your full attack, you can take a 5' step and start attacking the next guy in line. 

But that does bring up an interaction I hadn't thought of before - Pounce lets you make a full attack after charging.  Could you use the first attack to hit the guy you charged, then use Lightning Ricochet to throw your weapon at someone else entirely for the rest of your full attack, still gaining the bonuses from charging? 
Taking it a step further, do you even have to attack the person you charged?  Could you charge an ally (gaining the +2 to hit and any other bonuses you're entitled to), then just... attack someone else instead?
I'm not arguing, I'm explaining why I'm right.

Offline Ryshin

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Re: Blood Wind Ricochet + Lion Totem Charge. Does it work?
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2018, 03:16:52 AM »
Quote
But that does bring up an interaction I hadn't thought of before - Pounce lets you make a full attack after charging.  Could you use the first attack to hit the guy you charged, then use Lightning Ricochet to throw your weapon at someone else entirely for the rest of your full attack, still gaining the bonuses from charging? 
Taking it a step further, do you even have to attack the person you charged?  Could you charge an ally (gaining the +2 to hit and any other bonuses you're entitled to), then just... attack someone else instead?

Exactly my thoughts, plus does the attacks and the "secondary target" get the multiplier power attack bonus from leap attack if i'm in a position to threaten him since the bloodstorm blade gives me the ability to treat thrown attacks as melee attacks?

And generally (let's say i'm a 20lvl barbarian with no bloodstorm blade levels) if i make a charge with pounce and kill the primary target and he dies can i use the remainings attacks on an adiacent target if of course i'm in a position to hit him without moving?

Offline snakeman830

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Re: Blood Wind Ricochet + Lion Totem Charge. Does it work?
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2018, 05:10:35 PM »
Quote
But that does bring up an interaction I hadn't thought of before - Pounce lets you make a full attack after charging.  Could you use the first attack to hit the guy you charged, then use Lightning Ricochet to throw your weapon at someone else entirely for the rest of your full attack, still gaining the bonuses from charging? 
Taking it a step further, do you even have to attack the person you charged?  Could you charge an ally (gaining the +2 to hit and any other bonuses you're entitled to), then just... attack someone else instead?

Exactly my thoughts, plus does the attacks and the "secondary target" get the multiplier power attack bonus from leap attack if i'm in a position to threaten him since the bloodstorm blade gives me the ability to treat thrown attacks as melee attacks?

And generally (let's say i'm a 20lvl barbarian with no bloodstorm blade levels) if i make a charge with pounce and kill the primary target and he dies can i use the remainings attacks on an adiacent target if of course i'm in a position to hit him without moving?

It rarely comes up, but I believe the answer to both is "yes."  Now, Power Attacking or getting charge bonuses with a thrown weapon to complete the full attack won't work without Bloodstorm Blade levels, but I see no reason that you can't continue your full attack from Pounce with thrown weapons or on a second target within reach.
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Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Lightning Ricochet + Lion Totem Charge. How does it work?
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2018, 07:50:33 PM »
Pounce lets you make a full attack after charging.  Could you use the first attack to hit the guy you charged, then use Lightning Ricochet to throw your weapon at someone else entirely for the rest of your full attack, still gaining the bonuses from charging?
RC enforced the concept that you apply any bonuses gained on a charge, that ambiguously doesn't specific one or more attacks, carries on each attack made as the +2 bonus to your melee attack applies to every attack made.

Taking it a step further, do you even have to attack the person you charged?
By intent yes, you must be able to reach the closest space from which you can attack the designated opponent doesn't strictly say you have to but it is certainly applied. linklord231's quote is about deciding what to do after the first attack, which allows you to attack others if you don't like the result (or kill them).

Could you charge an ally (gaining the +2 to hit and any other bonuses you're entitled to), then just... attack someone else instead?
The rules specifically state opponent, I hope the DM returns the favor and says when the caster casts beneficiary Spells on his allies your Character, a clear enemy, is excluded.

Plus does the attacks and the "secondary target" get the multiplier power attack bonus from leap attack if i'm in a position to threaten him since the bloodstorm blade gives me the ability to treat thrown attacks as melee attacks?
Actually you don't treat Ranged Attacks as Melee Attacks.

You treat your Ranged Attack Rolls with Thrown Weapons as Melee Attacks. You're allowed to include Feats to determine your attack bonus for each attack, but it never actually says you can apply your melee damage bonuses to Thrown damage rolls. The ability to apply Power Attack comes from an additional clause within the entry. It's specifically added in and not because ranged weapons become melee. Hence why the text says "in addition" and not "in example", and this does limit some things.

And generally (let's say i'm a 20lvl barbarian with no bloodstorm blade levels) if i make a charge with pounce and kill the primary target and he dies can i use the remainings attacks on an adiacent target if of course i'm in a position to hit him without moving?
Yes, Reach weapons can help on this too.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2018, 08:00:04 PM by SorO_Lost »
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