Author Topic: Optimized Rebuke Undead: What resources exist?  (Read 690 times)

Offline Endarire

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Optimized Rebuke Undead: What resources exist?
« on: September 16, 2018, 11:36:28 PM »
Greetings, all!

What resources exist for optimizing rebuking Undead as a Cleric beyond those listed in The AfterCrescent Cleric Handbook?

Thankee!

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Optimized Rebuke Undead: What resources exist?
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2018, 07:30:46 PM »
K's Revised Necromancer Handbook
http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=2733.msg31818#msg31818
... "K" did the original, instigating the hivemind to get it's sh!t together.
BG version basically the same, discussion has some gems
http://bg-archive.minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=5584.0


PLZ's max pools build
http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=8770.msg140056#msg140056
... lots of details.

Reanimated Dread Necromancer Handbook
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=11783594&postcount=3
... scroll down to "minonmancer" minion minus the I, for 1 build.

How to make Dread Necromancer the best Necromancer out there?
http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=8551.0
... cliff notes thread.

Several questions about turning and rebuking
http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=11391.0
... lots of gems.

 :???
Your codpiece is a mimic.

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Optimized Rebuke Undead: What resources exist?
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2018, 08:02:40 PM »
You forgot the greatest of them all.

Class Boosters, under Cleric. Also check out Undead in the second post.

Offline Endarire

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Re: Optimized Rebuke Undead: What resources exist?
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2018, 12:40:39 AM »
Thankee!

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Optimized Rebuke Undead: What resources exist?
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2018, 06:15:37 PM »
edit --- there's a Turning improver Resistance feat that can be taken more than once.
It's somewhere in a Fun Finds ; I liked it but have forgotten where/when.

Army of Undead ?
http://bg-archive.minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=3189.0

PhaeXY notices Rebuking Outsiders
http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=11393.0

Master of Shrouds (idk)
http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=6885.0

I don't search giantitp well, idk if this goes as far as it claims.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?364333-rebuke-undead-challenge

Turning info from reposted Cleric handbook PI + carnivore
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19945280&postcount=5

Necromantic Oddities has a short section below the 1st post
http://bg-archive.minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=181.msg1980#msg1980

Found quite a few references to the Comprehensive Guide To Turning,
but no functioning links.  Maybe wayback has the whole thing.  Maybe.

edit added
« Last Edit: September 19, 2018, 05:51:19 PM by awaken_D_M_golem »
Your codpiece is a mimic.

Offline magic9mushroom

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Re: Optimized Rebuke Undead: What resources exist?
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2019, 08:23:39 AM »
edit --- there's a Turning improver Resistance feat that can be taken more than once.
It's somewhere in a Fun Finds ; I liked it but have forgotten where/when.
Improved Turn Resistance from Ghostwalk, methinks. Probably superseded by the Libris Mortis feat of the same name, which is twice as good (assuming it stacks with existing turn resistance, which it appears to) but can't be taken more than once.

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Optimized Rebuke Undead: What resources exist?
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2019, 03:13:39 PM »
Sans a Dragon Mag dive, seems you are right.


... Probably superseded ...

Yeah, probably, they've named other things the same before.
But Ghostwalk is supposed to be a separate setting, hence the wiggle room.
Still might be more in dmag.


I'd love to see a Rebuke Outsiders = win that game, build.
And have it be explained / explainable to non-specialists (like me).
Your codpiece is a mimic.

Offline magic9mushroom

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Re: Optimized Rebuke Undead: What resources exist?
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2019, 06:12:47 AM »
Incidentally, I found the Comprehensive Guide to Turning, but it's not very good.

The suggestion Vaz made in that GiantITP thread doesn't work, as an undead cannot Alter Self into a Dusk Giant (which is a Giant, not an Undead). Polymorph would allow you to turn into a Dusk Giant, but it's very sketchy in a lot of ways and wouldn't be able to get up to turning a Winterwight anyway.


The important things to boost for turning and rebuking are times/day (mostly for divine feats) and effective rebuking level (to control bigger stuff). Boosts to the turning check and turning damage are largely irrelevant, and effective turning level's only relevant if you can perform a Greater Turning (and even then, not as much as rebuking level).

What I know of to boost them is the following:

Feats:

Extra Turning (+4 to all turning and rebuking attempts/day; if you have multiple pools it's +4 to each; stacks with itself)
Improved Turning (+1 turning/rebuking level)


Items:

Amulet of Undead Turning (3.0 DMG, 11k): +4 turning level. Was converted into the Phylactery of Undead Turning for 3.5.

Ephod of Authority (MIC, 800gp): +1 turning level. Specifically doesn't work on rebuking.

Flametouched Iron holy symbol (Eberron Campaign Setting, 750gp): +1 turning level. Unlikely to work on rebuking, since the material's good-aligned, and unlikely to be exported from Eberron since it's an Eberron material.

Icon of Ravenloft (Expedition to Castle Ravenloft, 18k): +4 turning level when used as a holy symbol (unlikely to work on rebuking, since it's a [good] item and only mentions turning).

Lyre of the Restful Soul (LM, 3k): when played (DC 15 Perform(string)), undead within 60ft get -4 penalty to turn resistance for 1 minute. Can reduce turn resistance below 0, but not below 1 effective HD.

Moonfriend (Expedition to Castle Ravenloft, 9k): +3 turning level. Specifically doesn't work on rebuking.

Nightstick (LM, 7.5k): +4 turn/rebuke attempts/day. Has text about "anyone who possesses the rod" which causes endless debates.

Phylactery of Undead Turning (DMG, 11k): +4 turning level (unlikely to work on rebuking, since it's a [good] item and only mentions turning).

Prefect's Vestments (Expedition to Castle Ravenloft, 6k): +1 turn attempt per day (unlikely to work on rebuking, since it's a [good] item and only mentions turning).

Reliquary Holy Symbol (MIC, 1k): +1 turn/rebuke attempt/day for each of three prereqs you meet (5 ranks Know(religion), any divine feat, Improved Turning). Throat slot. Specific to a deity.

Rod of Authority (3.0 DotF, 20,576 gp): +4 turning/rebuking level, cast Command 3/day at CL 9 (not Command Undead).

Rod of Defiance (LM, 13k): +2 heavy mace. Undead within 30 ft of wielder "are treated as if they had -4 turn resistance"; how this is interpreted* determines whether it's brokenly good or merely good.

Rod of the Dead (FR: Underdark, 75k): +4 rebuking level for wielder, Animate Dead by touching a corpse (20 HD/day limit).

Sacred (BoED, +2): Armor/shield enchantment that gives +2 to turning/rebuking level. Not stated whether sacred armour + sacred shield stack. Specific to a deity.

Scepter of the Netherworld (MIC, 9k): +3 turning/rebuking level for wielder.

Sword of Crypts (3.0 A&EG, 42,315 gp): +2 holy longsword that gives +1 turn attempt/day to any cleric and +2 turning damage for clerics of Heironeous (unlikely to work on rebuking, since it's a [good] item and only mentions turning).

Sword of the Glorious Pearl (Stormwrack, 75,335 gp): +3 aquatic holy pearlsteel bastard sword that grants Extra Turning if you can turn undead (unlikely to work on rebuking, since it's a [good] item and only mentions turning). If the pricetag didn't dissuade you, there's also a whole prestige class that will come after you if you have one of these and are not an aventi.


*The two main interpretations I can see are a) that it reduces turn resistance by 4 (with the added question of whether this can go below 0), or b) that it sets turn resistance to -4 regardless of its previous value. The latter reading lets you enslave CR-appropriate liches and vampires.


Further note: it's vaguely dubious whether a lot of the level-boosters stack, since most of them use the text "X levels higher than it actually is". Sacred should definitely stack with other boosters, and Scepter of the Netherworld should with its MIC wording.