Author Topic: Vampire Character that Sucks (build help)  (Read 534 times)

Offline Vanguardian

  • Lurker
  • *
  • Posts: 2
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Vampire Character that Sucks (build help)
« on: October 06, 2018, 05:53:18 AM »
Pointless trivia: Before we took a break from playing for a few summer months, my paladin had an unfortunate encounter with a vampire, that left him in a predicament. Eventually the party managed to kill his sire and stuck a helm of opposite alignment on my character's head to remedy the situation to some extend and my DM allowed me rather then retire the character or play a fallen paladin with 8 LA to rebuild him a bit. This is the best I've managed to achieve over the next few months and would appreciate some suggestions in improving the character since he was never the star of the party anyway in the company of druid, favored soul and a sorcerer. I wan't to keep the vampire flavor and focus on dominate and blood drain, rather than go some more esoteric route. I am not really aiming for a really optimized character, but some practical optimization to turn it into viable one will be of great help.

Current build: Barbarian 1/Savage Progression Vampire 1/Crusader 4/Uncanny Trickster 3/Legacy Champion 1
Size/Type: Medium Humanoid (Human)
Hit Dice: 1d12+1d8+3d6+4d10 (41 hp)
Initiative: +8
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares)
Armor Class: 19 (+2 Dex, +1 deflection, +6 armor), touch 13, flat-footed 17
Base Attack/Grapple: +7/+26
Attack: Slam +14 (1d6+10) or Bite +15 (1d4+11 and stun DC 13) or Crimson Ruination +15 (2d6+11, dragon bane)
Full Attack: Crimson Ruination +15/+10 (2d6+11, dragon bane) and Bite +10 (1d4+4 and stun DC 13)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks:   Blood drain (moderate), domination (lesser, DC 18), Pounce, Frenzy
Special Qualities: gaseous form (lesser), resistance to cold 5, electricity 5, and fire 5, spider climb, fortification (light), protection from evil (CL 5), endure elements (CL 5).
Saves: Fort +8, Ref +7, Will +9
Abilities: Str 24, Dex 12, Con 10, Int 12, Wis 10, Cha 18
Skills: Bluff +17, Diplomacy +19, Intimidate +19, Spot +13, Sense Motive +13, Tumble +11, Kn. History +4, Jump +12
Skill Tricks: Never Outnumbered, Clarity of Vision, Back on Your Feat, Social Recovery
Feats: Alertness, Improved Initiative, Lightning Reflexes, Dodge, Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Natural Attack (Unarmed Strike), Improved Grapple, Scorpion's Grasp, True Believer, Adept Learner, Imperious Command, Jotunbrud, Least Legacy (Crimson Ruination).
Flaws: Shaky
Equipment: Fanged Ring, Belt of the Champion, Crimson Ruination (+1 Dragon-bane Greatsword), Helm of Opposite Alignment, Fanged Mask, Cloak of Resistance +1, +1 Breastplate.
Alignment: LG

Issues: Survivability. I don't really want to invest a lot in Con, since in 4 levels my Con will be N/A, but even with an occasional fistful of temp. hp from blood drain and martial spirit healing - 40 hp is nowhere even close to being viable in melee at lvl 10. 19 AC (20 in frenzy or vs. evil creatures) is nothing to write home about either.

Offense: My Grapple check is somewhat respectable vs. humanoid opponents and White Raven Tactics (arguments if I can use it on myself aside) helps me achieve a pin in one turn, but my attack bonus is somewhat lacking for a melee character, especially one that hopes to hit with secondary natural attack (bite into grapple).

Future Plans: Surviving for 5 more levels of legacy champion in order to fake-finish the vampire savage progression and grab the vampire lord template.
Getting fearsome armor so I can do move action intimidates and Gloves of Titan's Grip to help with grapples.
Figuring how to deal with sunlight vulnerability when it comes online. Figuring a way to add the Last Resort enchantment to my legacy weapon (anyone?)
Getting Battle Jump and Improved Toughness.
Power attack is probably a nice choice, but I am not sure if that will hurt my grapple checks or not.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2018, 01:05:14 PM by Vanguardian »

Offline Nanshork

  • Homebrew Reviewer
  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 11329
    • View Profile
Re: Vampire Character that Sucks (build help)
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2018, 02:45:03 PM »
Per Savage Species "A monster character using these rules may not multiclass until it completes the ful progression in its monster class."

Your DM might houserule that Uncanny Trickster and Legacy Champion can be taken instead to progress Vampire but that's definitely not allowed per the rules.

Offline SorO_Lost

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 7097
  • I'll kill you before you're born.
    • View Profile
Re: Vampire Character that Sucks (build help)
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2018, 03:14:30 PM »
Quote
Monster Classes and Multiclassing
A monster character using these rules may not multiclass until it completes the full progression in its monster class. This rule keeps characters from gaining the benefits of a monster’s type and then quickly switching to a standard class.
A monster class imposes an experience point penalty for multiclassing, just as other classes do (depending on preferred classes for the creature or race). A monster class is a character class for purposes of determining whether a character takes an experience point penalty. See the sample classes in Appendix 1 for specifics.
Yeah but the entire section, not just the multiclassing rule, is information about Monster Classes.

Vanguardian is using the Savage Progression Vampire and on the same exact page it also says this.
* Characters are not required to complete all the levels of a given template class in uninterrupted succession. For example, a character who takes a level of wereboar could then take a level of fighter and a level of rogue (or any other combination of other class levels) before taking another level of wereboar. A character must still take the first level of wereboar before taking the second, just as with a normal class.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2018, 03:16:46 PM by SorO_Lost »
Would you die if you jumped from my perceived ego to your IQ? - Is 15secs of confirmation bias a goal post worth arguing for? - Ever asked a "victim" what they did to deserve it? - Are the words teen, SJW, & liberal synonyms? - "Only Sith deals in absolutes" contains a misspelled word.

Offline Nanshork

  • Homebrew Reviewer
  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 11329
    • View Profile
Re: Vampire Character that Sucks (build help)
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2018, 03:32:51 PM »
Well those two rules directly contradict each other so primary source trumps secondary in terms how how the classes work (at least in my opinion).

Please note that I have no interest in actually fighting about this.  His DM's opinion trumps everything as I already stated.

Offline wotmaniac

  • Legendary Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1584
  • Procrastinator in Chief
    • View Profile
Re: Vampire Character that Sucks (build help)
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2018, 03:46:00 PM »
To SorO_Lost's observation (in the interest of completeness):
Quote from: Savage Progressions article
Savage Species takes dozens of existing monsters from the Monster Manual and presents them as though they were character classes -- that is, it breaks down the monster's benefits into levels and presents them as advancement tables. Thus, a young ogre (ECL 1) could join a 1st-level adventuring party and gain levels along with his friends. Upon reaching his full growth (at an ogre's base ECL of 6), he begins gaining class levels like the rest of the characters.
This simultaneously calls out the base "take all levels of monster class" rule, while also calling out that this article provides specific exception to said rule.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2018, 01:04:17 AM by wotmaniac »

Offline Nanshork

  • Homebrew Reviewer
  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 11329
    • View Profile
Re: Vampire Character that Sucks (build help)
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2018, 03:47:40 PM »
I don't know why you're throwing your hat in,the article is the primary source because it says "template classes" which is different from "monster classes" so I already conceded.

Offline Skyrock

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 139
  • [Good|Evil]
    • View Profile
Re: Vampire Character that Sucks (build help)
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2018, 11:58:16 AM »
Issues: Survivability. I don't really want to invest a lot in Con, since in 4 levels my Con will be N/A, but even with an occasional fistful of temp. hp from blood drain and martial spirit healing - 40 hp is nowhere even close to being viable in melee at lvl 10. 19 AC (20 in frenzy or vs. evil creatures) is nothing to write home about either.
Some suggestions, from more to less practical:
  • Improved Toughness gives you extra HP equal to your character level.
  • Amulet of Tears (MIC) is a cheap source of daily temporary HP.
  • Put some Black Sand (Sandstorm) into your boots to regenerate 1d4hp every round. There is a Cleric 3 spell of the same name in the same book to create some temporary black sand if it isn't on the shelf of the local Magick Shoppe, just sacrifice some living being on it to get a bit of permanent sand.
  • Faerie Mysteries Initiate (Dragon #319) allows you to use your Int mod for bonus HP. It is Dragon material, setting-specific and comes with a lot of fluff restrictions, so might not be available.
  • The Bloodtouched Rite (Players Guide to Eberron) adds your Charisma score to your HP. It's from an LE cult in Eberron, so might not be available.

Offline ketaro

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3908
  • I'm always new!
    • View Profile
Re: Vampire Character that Sucks (build help)
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2018, 03:36:32 PM »
Well I see imperious command so why not just spec as a support with white Raven maneuvers and intimidate focus to CC lockdown foes while the heavier hitters in the party lay the beat down on those cowering helpless foes.

Offline SorO_Lost

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 7097
  • I'll kill you before you're born.
    • View Profile
Re: Vampire Character that Sucks (build help)
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2018, 04:15:43 PM »
The Constitution issue can just be solved by Undeath, the SpVamp's 7th level ability. Once he obtains it, and using Desecrate, he'll upgrade his HP to 14+(8*lvl). Even if he started with an 8 it'd be forgotten soon. Maybe he could go Necropoliton in the mean time.

Really using Uncanny/Legacy to advance a Sp-Template is pretty optimized, using Crusader for a better Paladin and self-healing is a really good base and Fanged Mask presumably ruled to stack the Stun with your Natural Bite? You really did do your homework with it. I probably would have skipped Barbarian, looked into UMDing some buffs, probably pick up energy drain early, but it's all minor stuff. The main deal is well, you're using a Vampire. It's a very low powered Template that thinks Dominate is too uber for players because they can use it more often than a Wizard can and it's based on using one of the worst special attacks in the game. :(
Would you die if you jumped from my perceived ego to your IQ? - Is 15secs of confirmation bias a goal post worth arguing for? - Ever asked a "victim" what they did to deserve it? - Are the words teen, SJW, & liberal synonyms? - "Only Sith deals in absolutes" contains a misspelled word.

Offline Vanguardian

  • Lurker
  • *
  • Posts: 2
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: Vampire Character that Sucks (build help)
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2018, 06:01:07 PM »
The reason for the Fanged mask was actually that I don't have natural bite and needed an attack other than my greatsword in order to activate Scorpion's Grasp. The stun DC itself is pretty laughable, but I guess with the penalty from intimidate factored in - someone will fail his save once in a blue moon with something else than natural 1.

The back sand in the shoes trick is actually pretty awesome, but unfortunately I can't use it before turning into undead proper. The amulet of tears on the other hand is just the thing I need for a very affordable cost - thanks for the suggestion.

Offline SorO_Lost

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 7097
  • I'll kill you before you're born.
    • View Profile
Re: Vampire Character that Sucks (build help)
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2018, 09:58:33 PM »
Talk to your DM about Enhance Item, it improves the Save DC of magical items.
Would you die if you jumped from my perceived ego to your IQ? - Is 15secs of confirmation bias a goal post worth arguing for? - Ever asked a "victim" what they did to deserve it? - Are the words teen, SJW, & liberal synonyms? - "Only Sith deals in absolutes" contains a misspelled word.