Author Topic: Best support and field controller build  (Read 478 times)

Offline Ryshin

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Best support and field controller build
« on: October 13, 2018, 07:34:58 PM »
I edited this message because it was too long and not properly focused on the main question that is  WHAT'S THE STRONGEST BUILD FOR A SUPPORT IN 5E?

Lore bard or Druid (shepherd/moon)? As buffer/debuffer/god
Divine Soul Sorlock or Tempest Cleric? As healer+dps
Are there some other builds i don't know about?

I'm starting a level 13 shared multi-table campaign, 16 players divided in 4 tables and party composition randomized each week but always 2 melee and 2 ranged. The campaign is gonna be divided in a series of one shot quests, one each week till we reach level 20, so i won't know what players and characters i will play with each time i participate. I think the best way to be useful in a party of strangers is to be a field controller but i need help to find the most performing build, i'm a long time 3.5 player but still new to 5e and never played over level 6, i've read some guides but i'm still not competent and experienced enough in the 5e to come up on my own with a proper build.

I know all the above builds are good viable builds but i don't want a viable build i want one that transform a possibly tpk in a walk in the park when i click the panic button, because a rule of the campaign is if a tpk happens you are forced to leave the campaign and i fucking want to reach level 20.
I'm competitive af and i don't want to leave because of someone else poor judgment of a situation.
I want something broken like a 3.5 planar shepherd, cheater of mystra, incantatrix+arcane spellsurge+malconvoker, bard+dragonfire inspiration+word of creation+sublime chord.
I don't know whom i'm gonna play with and i don't trust the average player, i don't want to always break the game or solve a fight but i want a build that allows me to do it when is needed to prevent a total party kill.

Thanks


« Last Edit: October 14, 2018, 05:55:56 PM by Ryshin »

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: Best support and field controller build
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2018, 07:58:45 PM »
Okay, one thing worth remembering in 5E is that by and large the numbers scale a lot less. A level 20 PC gets at most +11 to their roll before magic items come into it (and they don't HAVE to come into it, unlike 3.5), and a level 1 PC can start with +5 easily no problem.

A Pit Fiend, meant to fight a 20th level party, has 19AC. It's near impossible to NOT hit it (fortunately, HP still scales normally and damage lags behind as ever, though the lack of BAB and "all attacks happen at the same bonus" is nice--300HP on that thing), whilst it deals 15-24 damage on each of its four +14 hits. Without rolling for the damage as that's now an option. Monsters are nicer to run.

Compare this to the 40AC +30 to hit 3.5 pit fiend (only 225HP, amusingly).

Before trying to optimise for a role, at least make sure you're good on how the maths has changed.
Still short tempered.

Offline Skyrock

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Re: Best support and field controller build
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2018, 08:45:17 PM »
Yes, one thing to keep in mind before dismissing summoners is the concept of Bounded Accuracy: Attack bonuses, AC, saves and save DCs purposefully all move along a narrow band in 5e compared to 3.5, and even some low CR creatures are bound to get some hits in against a high CR foe if they appear in sufficient numbers.

If you go for summoning, the Druid is by far the best choice.

As for support in general, Paladin/Bard is another combination that always boosts the rest of the party. You get Inspiration from the bard side to throw around, Lay-on hands from the paladin side for heals (which is huge as there are no longer cheap wand of cure lights wounds/lesser vigor, and as the healing from short rests is sharply limited), and the auras beginning at Paladin 6+ also have a big impact. Smites are better saved for when you get a Crit on an attack given the small number of spell slots even if you multiclass with a fullcaster.

Offline Ryshin

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Re: Best support and field controller build
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2018, 06:36:38 PM »
Yes, one thing to keep in mind before dismissing summoners is the concept of Bounded Accuracy: Attack bonuses, AC, saves and save DCs purposefully all move along a narrow band in 5e compared to 3.5, and even some low CR creatures are bound to get some hits in against a high CR foe if they appear in sufficient numbers.

If you go for summoning, the Druid is by far the best choice.

As for support in general, Paladin/Bard is another combination that always boosts the rest of the party. You get Inspiration from the bard side to throw around, Lay-on hands from the paladin side for heals (which is huge as there are no longer cheap wand of cure lights wounds/lesser vigor, and as the healing from short rests is sharply limited), and the auras beginning at Paladin 6+ also have a big impact. Smites are better saved for when you get a Crit on an attack given the small number of spell slots even if you multiclass with a fullcaster.

Okay, one thing worth remembering in 5E is that by and large the numbers scale a lot less. A level 20 PC gets at most +11 to their roll before magic items come into it (and they don't HAVE to come into it, unlike 3.5), and a level 1 PC can start with +5 easily no problem.

A Pit Fiend, meant to fight a 20th level party, has 19AC. It's near impossible to NOT hit it (fortunately, HP still scales normally and damage lags behind as ever, though the lack of BAB and "all attacks happen at the same bonus" is nice--300HP on that thing), whilst it deals 15-24 damage on each of its four +14 hits. Without rolling for the damage as that's now an option. Monsters are nicer to run.

Compare this to the 40AC +30 to hit 3.5 pit fiend (only 225HP, amusingly).

Before trying to optimise for a role, at least make sure you're good on how the maths has changed.

Thanks these are cool advices but none of them solve my problem that is "what build should i play in order to transform a possible tpk in a walk in the park?"
If i'm asking for help instead of posting an already op build in order to recieve suggestions on how to min/max it even more (like i sometimes do in the 3.5 section of the forum) is because it's not 3.5 so i lack the experience needed to create an op build in 5e and i don't have time to make it since the level 13 onwards campaign starts in 10 days.
In the last 2 weeks i read lots of guides, handbooks ecc but since it's an edition i'm not familiar with i don't have the knowledge to form an opinion, that's why i'm asking for help.
In my 3.5 ongoing campaign a friend of mine decided to try it for the first time and said he wanted to play the strongest possible druid so i made a planar shepherd build for him and i'm coaching him on how to play it properly and he's having a lot of fun and he especially loves he's cute little murdering machine of a pet with venomfire, now i don't need coaching in the 5e because i know all the rules, i've played some low levels adventures and believe that my experience in 3.5 will allow me to get the hang of a 13 level character in a couple sessions but i need someone that makes for me a 5e godlike planar shepherd build if there is one and if there isn't to tell me what's the next best thing. Thanks.

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: Best support and field controller build
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2018, 06:46:43 PM »
So basically you want to be the guy nobody wants to play with?
Still short tempered.

Offline Ryshin

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Re: Best support and field controller build
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2018, 08:00:43 AM »
So basically you want to be the guy nobody to play with?
No, i'd play a damage dealer if I'd want that something like a build for a 350dmg rogue I've seen on YouTube. I'm gonna play either a bard, a Druid or a healer because I want to save the party when someone makes a mistake. I want my party to succede when others struggle or di miserably.
In 3.5 a wizard can interrupt an opponent turn and cast 4 spells in a row with a combo of celerity, celerity grater and belt of battle, but that doesn't mean he always has to use this combo it's just q panic button to press when everything goes apeshit to solve an impossible situation.
BUT I don't even really want that, I just want to know if there's a support build that is more competitive than the others.

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Best support and field controller build
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2018, 06:08:45 PM »
Druid and Summoning works just fine.
Some "talk" complains that Druid falls off above level 11.
Maybe.  UA for DMs got into constructing encounters.
It ~priced a mob of mooks at exactly !! the same as the various summons.
There aren't very many abilities that are one spell for one encounter.
Not bad at all.

Wiz Necromancer is probably better.
(personally I find the skeleton army too cumbersome for normal play)
Wiz Conjure isn't quite at Druid, but there's that no conc save abiilty.
I'd be willing to bet that a Wiz without enough meatshield-ing
... perhaps like your 4 players + limited team tactics ...
would work out better than Druid summons.
Wiz in general has Simulacrum (but so do Arcana Cleric and Bard)
and that's probably better than anything.  Glyph of warding too.

Divine Soul Sorc hasn't had a fine toothed combover as to which
metamagics work best with the Cleric list. 

I enjoyed handing out the dice (and the return favors) while playing Lore Bard.
It incentivised good team behavior, but still had access to decent kaboom.

Things like Fighter 1 / Bladesinger X is better when caught in combat.
Valor Bard is still a caster but again IF , the armor + combat goes better.
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