Author Topic: Gestalt optimization help please plus artificer cohort.  (Read 395 times)

Offline MichelleSidheElfAmaianna

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Gestalt optimization help please plus artificer cohort.
« on: October 18, 2018, 12:23:32 AM »
D&D 3.5 Gestalt

This is my first gestalt game and I’m trying to keep up with everyone else and I dont have the experience in optimizing gestalt. This is what I have so far.
Any help, ideas or suggestions would be appreciate. Willing to make changes

She has aspirations on divinity as the goddess of charisma, she has founded her own religious order, I want her to be awesome at melee with all the charisma awesomeness I can squeeze in without detracting from it. Exploiting swift actions using ruby knight vindicator is the core.

Party composition
We have an extremely optimized dark shadow whisper gnome princess Assassin in the party, master theif and shadow Assassin sorceress
Bard luckstealer/divine prankster
Half Minotaur Goliath war hulk /hulking hurler
Succubus wilder/battle dancer
I think if the last one is still using their character is a ranger/draconic shaman I’m not sure

Will likely go up to 50
GESTALT RULES (as previously established):                   
-everything official wizards is good including dragon magazine
-    2 flaws & 1 trait
-    Starting level is 16
-    Psionic/Magic semi transparent.
Using psionic on magic or magic on psionic takes a -4 penalty EXAMPLE: Using psionics against Spell Resistance. Treat the spell resistance as being 4 points lower

Up to +2 Level adjustment is FREE. Anything over +2 must be paid for with 4 ability points from your point buy PER +1 LA. Only a single template is allowed

-    All ability scores start at 8. You have 32 points to spend as you please on a 1-1 basis. No score can start higher than 18 before racials

-     260,000 starting gold
-     All Ascetic feats or feats of similar nature can be used to benefit characters with a class that utilizes the same ability as the class in the feat.

-    At lvl 4 all characters progress gaining +1 to two ability scores (4e progression)
-    For item creation and spell instead of using xp you burn 1 con point per 500xp. Undead must follow standard xp rulings for creating items (edited)

-    Faerun deities are the Pantheon for all campaigns in this game
-    Thunderstone is a one use item
-    Swift ambusher and Swift Hunter feats stack for purposes of determining effects on skirmish and sneak attack with those classes

-    Telepathy can initiate a 2way conversation with the recipient
-    A player may do a craft, profession, or perform check between sessions where we switch dms, you may do the check for 1D6 -1  weeks. Also you may do it between sessions if the DM says the next session will pick up 1 week later or longer and he gives the ok to do so.

-    True sight v Mind blank will be determined by CL vs CL
-    Half Breeds are allowed but they must be brought to vote and they must use Bastards and bloodlines rules to template and any other variations of it

-Can take two prestige classes simultaneously

Bard/ crusader/ruby knight vindicator/ stack for inspire courage
Everything cleric casting is charisma based with lost traditions
Fey soul gives charisma instead of con mod to hp at even levels
Celerity got voted added to Mystra so can use it for travel devotion
Draconic template for not having to take dragontouched and draconic heritage



1/.   Cloistered Cleric 1/Succubus 1
2/.  Cloistered Cleric 2/Succubus 2
3/.   Bard 1/Succubus 3
4/.   Church Inquisitor 1/Succubus 4
5/.   Crusader 1/ Succubus 5
6/.   Crusader 2/Succubus 6
7/.   Crusader 3/Divine Oracle 1
8/.   Crusader 4/Divine Oracle 2
9/.   Crusader 5/Divine Disciple 1
10/.  Crusader 6/Cloistered Cleric 7
11/.   RKV 1/Prestige Paladin 1
12/.   RKV 2/Prestige Paladin 2
13/.   RKV 3/Exotist Fighter 1
14/.   RKV 4/Battledancer 1
15/.   RKV 5/Marshal 1
16/.   RKV 6/Mystic Wanderer 1
17/.   RKV. 7/.  Bard 2
18/.   RKV 8/.  Bard 3
19/.   RKV 9/. Fighter 2
20/.   RKV 10/maho-Bujin 1

1. Lost traditions
Flaw.  Fey soul
Flaw    Weapon finesse
Succubus bonus  extend spell
Succubus bonus  persistent spell.     
Succubus bonus   Divine metamagic
3 Initiate of Mystra
6 leadership
9 words or creation
12 song of the white raven
15 combat reflexes
18.
Bonus Heward hall.  Skill focus (perform) 5k
Bonus Heward hall   Dragonfire inspiration  5k
Bonus frog fane.   Skill focus knowledge 2k
Bonus cleric. Knowledge devotion
Bonus cleric. Travel devotion
Bonus otyugh hole.  Iron will 3k
B marshal skill focus diplomacy
Fighter bonus.  Defensive sweep
Fighter bonus robilhars gambit
4 bonus feats from taint
Bonus taint Mounted Combat
Bonus taint Battle Blessing
Bonus taint Improved Trip
Bonus taint Other feat
27 battle dance

https://realmshelps.net/charbuild/feat/Battle_Dance

Domains spell, knowledge, illusion, celerity

Draconic + Succubus racial mods
Str + 4 / dex +2/ con +4/ int +6/ wis +4/ cha +18

Magic items are at 10% of market price so I have a belt of magnificent +6

Was going with a spiked chain going to take this feat couldn’t think of anything better battle dancer requires high dex


Was Working on taking advantage of ridiculous charisma awesomeness

Game will Probably go up to 50 have no idea what to do next or how to reorder it and arrange for progression for optimization unless maybe obtaining time stands still

Game will Probably go up to 50 have no idea what to do next for the rest or how to reorder what I have and arrange for progression for optimization

unless maybe obtaining time stands still And more counters

Is there a better weapon and method of combat

Maybe swiftblade 4 or mythic example 10


A couple rules questions by raw
So would the Paladin acf divine spirit healing spirit CD still work since it adds 3 to your effective Paladin level?

Also the cleric acf pool of healing requires giving up a fourth level cleric spell slot at level 7,  so since prestige classes add one to the level of the base class, if I took cleric 7 more or less would I be able to take it.   

All of those together would give me a big healing pool around 350+ per day which I could use for ability damage and other things also

Does witch hunter Kamis Graces from oriental adventures stack with divine grace?

Can battle bridle be used to qualify for prestige Paladin?

Would leaving 2 la to allow la buy off allow me to have it bought of by current level 16 so I would have more attribute points?


Any help or ideas would be appreciated willing to change things
« Last Edit: October 23, 2018, 02:20:14 AM by MichelleSidheElfAmaianna »

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Gestalt optimization help please
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2018, 05:02:56 PM »
A lot of stuff going on here.

What does the rest of your party look like?
What do you want your character to do?


Some corrections are normal in a complicated build.  As a start :
Cleric 2 + one more level = Cleric 3 not Cleric 7.
Succubus is 6rhd+6la, so the Savage Species racial progression is 12 levels long, and you have to take all of it.
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Offline Skyrock

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Re: Gestalt optimization help please
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2018, 05:17:00 PM »
Succubus is 6rhd+6la, so the Savage Species racial progression is 12 levels long, and you have to take all of it.
2 LA are free, so it are only effectively 6HD+4LA. Still blows a huge hole into this build.

Offline MichelleSidheElfAmaianna

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Re: Gestalt optimization help please
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2018, 05:33:41 PM »

Succubus is 6rhd+6la, so the Savage Species racial progression is 12 levels long, and you have to take all of it.
2 LA are free, so it are only effectively 6HD+4LA. Still blows a huge hole into this build.
We allowed to buy off the rest of the La with our starting 32 attribute points 4 per point of la

She has aspirations on divinity as the goddess of charisma, she has founded her own religious order, I want her to be awesome at melee with all the charisma awesomeness I can squeeze in without detracting from it.

We have an extremely optimized dark shadow whisper gnome princess Assassin in the party, master theif and shadow Assassin sorceress
Bard luckstealer/divine prankster
Half Minotaur Goliath war hulk /hulking hurler
Succubus wilder/battle dancer
I think if the last one is still using their character is a ranger/draconic shaman I’m not sure


« Last Edit: October 18, 2018, 07:05:59 PM by MichelleSidheElfAmaianna »

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Gestalt optimization help please
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2018, 04:24:15 PM »
copypasta dully noted, and the shadow assassin shadow assassin.

Ok then

Everything cleric casting is charisma based with lost traditions

Draconic + Succubus racial mods
Str + 4 / dex +2/ con +4/ int +6/ wis +4/ cha +18

Was Working on taking advantage of ridiculous charisma awesomeness

May I suggest :
Cleric 20+ on the one side // Succubus 6' / Paladin 2 / Crusader +X on the other.
Both of these are most likely better than the other builds, by themselves.
Together?  Boom.
Your giant pile of houserules, makes most of the complicated stuff unnecessary.

copypasta duly noted, and the shadow assassin shadow assassin.
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Offline MichelleSidheElfAmaianna

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Re: Gestalt optimization help please plus artificer cohort.
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2018, 02:27:53 AM »
copypasta dully noted, and the shadow assassin shadow assassin.

Ok then

Everything cleric casting is charisma based with lost traditions

Draconic + Succubus racial mods
Str + 4 / dex +2/ con +4/ int +6/ wis +4/ cha +18

Was Working on taking advantage of ridiculous charisma awesomeness

May I suggest :
Cleric 20+ on the one side // Succubus 6' / Paladin 2 / Crusader +X on the other.
Both of these are most likely better than the other builds, by themselves.
Together?  Boom.
Your giant pile of houserules, makes most of the complicated stuff unnecessary.

copypasta duly noted, and the shadow assassin shadow assassin.

This is what I ended up with before I saw the most recent bonus and exploiting ruby knight vindicator is what I started the build around.

1/. Cloistered Cleric 1/Succubus 1
2/. Cloistered Cleric 2/Succubus 2
3/. Exotist Fighter 1/Succubus 3
4/. Church Inquisitor 1/Succubus 4
5/. Crusader 1/ Succubus 5
6/. Crusader 2/Succubus 6
7/. Crusader 3/Divine Oracle 1
8/. Crusader 4/Divine Oracle 2
9/. Crusader 5/Divine Disciple 1
10/. Crusader 6/Mystic Wanderer 1
11/. RKV 1/Prestige Paladin 1
12/. RKV 2/Prestige Paladin 2
13/. RKV 3/Bard 1
14/. RKV 4/Battledancer 1
15/. RKV 5/Maho-Bujin 1
16/. RKV 6/Contemplative 1
17/. RKV. 7/. Marshal 1
18/. RKV 8/.   Witch hunter1
19/. RKV 9/. Bard 2
20/. RKV 10/ Bard 3

1. Lost traditions
Flaw. Fey soul
Flaw  weapon finesse
Succubus bonus extend spell
Succubus bonus persistent spell.
Succubus bonus Divine metamagic
3 Initiate of Mystra
6 leadership
9 words or creation
12 battle blessing
15 Robilar’s gambit
18.
Bonus Heward hall. Skill focus (perform) 5k
Bonus Heward hall. Dragonfire inspiration 5k
Bonus frog fane. Skill focus knowledge 2k
Bonus cleric. Knowledge devotion
Bonus cleric. Travel devotion
Bonus cleric.  Good devotion
Bonus otyugh hole. Iron will 3k
B marshal skill focus diplomacy
Fighter bonus. Combat reflexes

defensive sweep using continuous heroics

3 bonus feats from taint
Bonus taint song of the white raven
Bonus taint Improved combat reflexes
Bonus taint Greater combat reflexes
21 EPIC Improved combat reflexes
27    battle dance
Continuous mirror move, combat expertise, improved trip, mounted combat, dodge, Improved initiative

Gets me 6 domains, charisma to ac 4 times by level 27 (persisted sirenes Grace deflection, sacred mystic wanderer, Battledancer untyped, insight epic battle dancer), charisma to cha skill checks twice, charisma to saves twice if kami’s grace stacks, charisma to damage with gauntlets, undersong in a continuous item for perform in place of con checks

Getting swiftblade 4 for charisma to initiative
I’m going to make an artificer cohort since the player with artificer cohort in party is I feel price gouging the party when they can make an item for 3% of the market price and they are charging the party 10% of the price so I want to make a 14th level cohort at good or better then that price range at least for my personal use.  Cohorts use the same creation rules as a player.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2018, 01:49:52 PM by MichelleSidheElfAmaianna »