Author Topic: Arcana Archer  (Read 239 times)

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Arcana Archer
« on: November 09, 2018, 02:40:49 AM »
Arcana Archer

If someone ever tells me it's a mistake to have hope, well then, I'll just tell them they're wrong. And I'll keep telling them til they believe! No matter how many times it takes...
-Madoka Kaname, Arcana Archer

Arcana Archers are those that combine innate magic with the art of the bow and arrow.

(click to show/hide)

Class Skills
The Arcana Archer’s class skills are Balance, Craft(any), Concentration, Climb, Diplomacy, Jump, Hide, Move Silently, Spot, Listen, Apraise, Intimidate, Knowledge(any), Profession (Any), Sense Motive, Spellcraft, Swim
Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + int)x4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: x4+ int

Hit Dice:d8

Level
Base
Attack Bonus
Fort
Save
Ref
Save
Will
Save

Special
1st+1+0+2+2Spellcasting, Beautiful Bow
2nd+2+0+3+3Beautiful Bow
3rd+3+1+3+3Beautiful Bow
4th+4+1+4+4Beautiful Bow
5th+5+1+4+4Beautiful Bow
6th+6/+1+2+5+5Beautiful Bow
7th+7/+2+2+5+5Beautiful Bow
8th+8/+3+2+6+6Beautiful Bow
9th+9/+4+3+6+6Beautiful Bow
10th+10/+5+3+7+7Beautiful Bow
11th+11/+6/+1+3+7+7Beautiful Bow
12th+12/+7/+2+4+8+8Beautiful Bow
13th+13/+8/+3+4+8+8Beautiful Bow
14th+14/+9/+4+4+9+9Beautiful Bow
15th+15/+10/+5+5+9+9Beautiful Bow
16th+16/+11/+6/+1+5+10+10Beautiful Bow
17th+17/+12/+7/+2/+5+10+10Beautiful Bow
18th+18/+13/+8/+3+6+11+11Beautiful Bow
19th+19/+14/+9/+4+6+11+11Beautiful Bow
20th+20/+15/+10/+5+6+12+12Dream Arrow, Beautiful Bow
Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: Simple and martial weapons, Light and Medium Armor

Spellcasting: An Arcana Archer learns and casts spells as a bard of her Arcana Archer level, except she learns spells from the wizard spell list and does not suffer from Arcane Spell failure from Light and Medium armor.

Beautiful Bow: An Arcana Archer can blend magic and archery in fantastic ways. At each level the Arcana Archer picks two of the following abilities. Each may be picked only once unless noted otherwise. When “bow” is mentioned, it means any weapon able to launch arrows. Any arrows boosted by Beautiful Bow only last until the arrow hits the target or misses, dissipating into pretty colors afterward.

(click to show/hide)

Dream Arrow: At 20th level, an Arcana Archer can create an arrow of dream that forces the target, if damaged by the arrow’s attack, to make a Fortitude, Reflex or Will save (Arcana Archer’s choice when the arrow is created) or be sent into a personal dream dimension immediately where they’ll experience a peaceful and happy existence for eternity, not worry about anything else anymore, with only a Miracle or Wish able to pull them back to the cold and cruel reality. The DC for this save is 10+1/2 HD+Arcana Archer's charisma modifier. It takes one day to make a Dream Arrow, and the arrow only functions for the Arcana Archer who created it. The Dream Arrow lasts no longer than one year, and the Arcana Archer can only have one such arrow in existence at a time.

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« Last Edit: Today at 09:35:43 AM by oslecamo »

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Re: Arcana Archer
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2018, 02:41:23 AM »
Reserved.

Offline ~Corvus~

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Re: Arcana Archer
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2018, 01:10:52 PM »
What a class! Under Spellcasting, this AA currently has Arcane Spell failure in Light Armour but not Med; might want to change that.
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Re: Arcana Archer
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2018, 08:22:51 PM »
Ups, added Light Armor too. Thanks!

From a PM:
Very cool, and much more interesting. I did some of the math and if you ignore the animal companion you can get all the 'can be taken only x times' abilities and each of the 'can be taken as many times as you want' once, and only have to not pick up 9, so perhaps 2 less seeking, 2 less phasing, no blunt/slashing and only half the meta-magics.

Grabbing the full animal companion seems like a complete trap, it costs as much as full arcana arrow, spell arrow, seeking arrow x1, phasing arrow x1 AND Hope of arrows.

The Hope quiver probably needs an 'as a free action' so it can be used, maybe melded with the fantastic arrow into one ability? Also can it produce 'special' arrows like the slashing ones, non-lethal ones, alchemy arrows?
Clarified it's free action, also added the option to replicate special materials such as cold iron with the fantastic arrows.

By "slashing ones, non-lethal ones, alchemy arrows" I suppose you mean special splatbook arrows. If you point me to the specific sources and exact names I can add those as extra pick options. Added a more generic clause that should cover all splats with limitation of cost in GP based on Arcana Archer level.

Maybe some sort of ability to usurp control of any arrows/bows so that you can have use out of some of the nice relics floating about and not worry about alignment/religion requirements.
Good idea, added Hope Proficiency

Archery is also really feat intensive, so perhaps throwing in a option to grab some of the feat tax-y feats: point blank, precise shot, woodland archery, that kind of stuff.
Added Hope Feat.

Is there a reason that it is casting like a bard off of charisma? I realize that giving it full wizard casting would be too much, but perhaps letting it go with that, but making it a strictly 'through arrows' kind of thing? That would of course clash with the buffing...
Bardic casting because otherwise yeah it would be fullcaster+, and Cha because that's the usual "magic" stat. Although limiting it to spell arrows only sounds interesting so added ACF for sorceror progression in return for only being able to use magic through bows. As for buffing, notice that Spell Arrow can deal no damage while Bindings of Sacae can auto-hit willing allies and make you benefit from the buffs as well.

Overall, really like the feel of it, a bit on the good side of things but such is life with Madoka. Not sure about the implementation of the animal companion, specially since animal companions don't progress every level. Maybe force on the mage-bred template or something to show that it is more a manifestation of a dream than an actual animal?
Technically it can already take mage-bred since normal druid companions can too (one of the eberron splats explicitly allowed it). But I can see your points, so made each extra pick plus make it count as magic beast plus able to talk. What's more dreamy than a talking animal after all? And special mark for the sake of it.

Thanks a lot of the quick and full class!
I realize the message might come off as overly negative, but I really like all the abilities I did not comment on as is.
And writing constructive criticism is hard so please forgive any negative wording, it was not meant as such.

Best regards
Tjallen
Oh that was definitely a lot more on the constructive side than the negative side. :)

Offline Skyrock

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Re: Arcana Archer
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2018, 08:54:41 AM »
Quote
Arcana Arrow-[...]   For every two levels the character advances past 1st level in the prestige class
I thought this was a base class?

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Re: Arcana Archer
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2018, 09:10:48 AM »
Correct it's a base class, fixed. Thanks for the catch!

Offline Tjallen

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Re: Arcana Archer
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2018, 10:42:58 AM »
Instead of a completely new setup for alternate arrows, maybe allow one to change a single +1 on the fly for each time it is picked? To make room for some of the more rarely used enchantments?
And if you pick the ACF should you not get the spell arrow automatically?
« Last Edit: November 11, 2018, 11:43:33 AM by Tjallen »

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Re: Arcana Archer
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2018, 05:57:43 AM »
Instead of a completely new setup for alternate arrows, maybe allow one to change a single +1 on the fly for each time it is picked? To make room for some of the more rarely used enchantments?
Added Amazing Arrow.

And if you pick the ACF should you not get the spell arrow automatically?
Good idea, done.

Offline Tjallen

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Re: Arcana Archer
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2018, 06:03:50 PM »
What happens if I have a +1 wounding arrow and want to change it with amazing arrows, do I get double the bang for my buck or does it simply not work?
Also would a 1/min like on seeking/phasing/hope of arrows not be more fitting? You could use it most fights, but only once. Maybe have it require 5 minutes of meditation or similar could also work?

Does hope feat allow for skipping those pesky pre-reqs?
« Last Edit: November 12, 2018, 06:06:23 PM by Tjallen »

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Re: Arcana Archer
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2018, 08:20:44 AM »
What happens if I have a +1 wounding arrow and want to change it with amazing arrows, do I get double the bang for my buck or does it simply not work?
Would need to spend multiple uses, clarified.

Also would a 1/min like on seeking/phasing/hope of arrows not be more fitting? You could use it most fights, but only once. Maybe have it require 5 minutes of meditation or similar could also work?
-It would make Alternate Arrows obsolete because if you get a bit of warning time before battle you could fully change the configuration with multiple uses of amazing arrow.
-It would bog down gameplay because every battle you'll want to cherry pick the most optimal configuration from the many magic enhancements out there.

Does hope feat allow for skipping those pesky pre-reqs?
Yes, at least until somebody points out some uber archery-related feat or something, but can't really think of any.

Offline Tjallen

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Re: Arcana Archer
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2018, 02:06:03 PM »

-It would make Alternate Arrows obsolete because if you get a bit of warning time before battle you could fully change the configuration with multiple uses of amazing arrow.
-It would bog down gameplay because every battle you'll want to cherry pick the most optimal configuration from the many magic enhancements out there.

I see your points, how about some sort of floating bonus requiring both abilities, maybe picked twice, and allowing you to switch bonuses around between your sets? So if you have 2 sets, one magebane flaming and one frost seeking you could switch 1 single plus between them so either magebane OR flaming but not both. Which would be more and more useful with more and more sets of alternate arrow.

Yes, at least until somebody points out some uber archery-related feat or something, but can't really think of any.

Only thing I could find was that one feat that allowed you to shoot arrows as a 60 foot line attack.

More questions! What happens if you pick up magical arrows, does arcana arrows overwrite the bonus, do they overlap? So if I have a +1 flaming longbow, a +1 frost arrow and my arcana arrow is +1 acidic, do I end up with a +1 acidic arrow or a +1 flaming frost acidic arrow ?

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Re: Arcana Archer
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2018, 09:07:07 AM »

-It would make Alternate Arrows obsolete because if you get a bit of warning time before battle you could fully change the configuration with multiple uses of amazing arrow.
-It would bog down gameplay because every battle you'll want to cherry pick the most optimal configuration from the many magic enhancements out there.

I see your points, how about some sort of floating bonus requiring both abilities, maybe picked twice, and allowing you to switch bonuses around between your sets? So if you have 2 sets, one magebane flaming and one frost seeking you could switch 1 single plus between them so either magebane OR flaming but not both. Which would be more and more useful with more and more sets of alternate arrow.
Good idea, added Awesome Arrows for that.

Yes, at least until somebody points out some uber archery-related feat or something, but can't really think of any.

Only thing I could find was that one feat that allowed you to shoot arrows as a 60 foot line attack.

More questions! What happens if you pick up magical arrows, does arcana arrows overwrite the bonus, do they overlap? So if I have a +1 flaming longbow, a +1 frost arrow and my arcana arrow is +1 acidic, do I end up with a +1 acidic arrow or a +1 flaming frost acidic arrow ?
Neither, Arcana Arrows only works with nonmagic arrows. If you pick up an arrow that's already magic, you can only use the arrow's own magic enhancements.

Offline Versatility_Nut

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Re: Arcana Archer
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2018, 08:37:14 PM »
My usual criticism of being a list class holds true here, as well. Maybe bake a Duskblade-like armor progression and the fundamentals of Arcane Archery into the baseline, so that all Arcana Archers are guaranteed direct mixing of archery and magic. The Heavy Armor and Tower Shield ASF bypass seems a good fit for one of the options, possibly coming with oversized weapon use, as it's very unfitting to the default flavor of the class, but some people will want to be a basically-literal tank with crazy defenses and a stupid amount of ranged damage.

Edit: To give crunch to this, this means making Spell Arrow baseline, possibly with a slightly slower spell level progression with the Beautiful Bow option remaining to bump it up to full spell levels. The armor effect would be a direct rip from the Duskblade, save for being placed at different levels. As for the heavy armor/oversized weapon... It could honestly work as a more Martial variant class, but here's it as a pair of Beautiful Bow options:

Ironclad Bowyer: You must be at least character level 7 to pick this option. You gain the Craft Magic Arms and Armor feat, though the only magical weapons you may craft by the feat gained this way are bows and arrows, as well as Heavy Armor proficiency, as well as allowing you to ignore Arcane Spell Failure on Heavy Armor.

Beautiful Arbalester: You must be at least level 11 to pick this option. Your Beautiful Bow choices apply to Crossbows and Crossbow Bolts and you may use bows and crossbows as if they were one size larger or smaller. They must still use appropriately sized arrows and bolts, respectively. For example, a Medium Heavy Crossbow could be used as a two-handed weapon without penalty by a Large-sized Arcana Archer, or be used one-handed with a -2 penalty by a Medium-sized Arcana Archer.

---

Something to clean up the class's list would be rolling all the "Spell X Arrows" into this:

Infused Spell Arrow: You may combine your Spell Arrow with one Beautiful Bow option of your choice that requires a Standard Action to use, allowing you to use both with one Standard Action for the attack made, or apply the Beautiful Bow option to each attack of a Full Attack made with a multi-target spell through Spell Arrow.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2018, 09:17:23 PM by Versatility_Nut »

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Re: Arcana Archer
« Reply #13 on: Yesterday at 10:26:44 PM »
My usual criticism of being a list class holds true here, as well. Maybe bake a Duskblade-like armor progression and the fundamentals of Arcane Archery into the baseline, so that all Arcana Archers are guaranteed direct mixing of archery and magic. The Heavy Armor and Tower Shield ASF bypass seems a good fit for one of the options, possibly coming with oversized weapon use, as it's very unfitting to the default flavor of the class, but some people will want to be a basically-literal tank with crazy defenses and a stupid amount of ranged damage.

Edit: To give crunch to this, this means making Spell Arrow baseline, possibly with a slightly slower spell level progression with the Beautiful Bow option remaining to bump it up to full spell levels. The armor effect would be a direct rip from the Duskblade, save for being placed at different levels.
I can see your point wih the spell arrows, but I don't feel like it should be a mandatory part of the class. An Arcana Archer should be viable too just shooting lots of arrows with lots of enhancements and class special effects while using actual spells for self-buffs, and still feel magicish.

As for the heavy armor/oversized weapon... It could honestly work as a more Martial variant class, but here's it as a pair of Beautiful Bow options:Ironclad Bowyer: You must be at least character level 7 to pick this option. You gain the Craft Magic Arms and Armor feat, though the only magical weapons you may craft by the feat gained this way are bows and arrows, as well as Heavy Armor proficiency, as well as allowing you to ignore Arcane Spell Failure on Heavy Armor.
That seems nice, added with a few tweaks.

Beautiful Arbalester: You must be at least level 11 to pick this option. Your Beautiful Bow choices apply to Crossbows and Crossbow Bolts and you may use bows and crossbows as if they were one size larger or smaller. They must still use appropriately sized arrows and bolts, respectively. For example, a Medium Heavy Crossbow could be used as a two-handed weapon without penalty by a Large-sized Arcana Archer, or be used one-handed with a -2 penalty by a Medium-sized Arcana Archer.
Allowing for crossbows are something I had considered from the start but ended up not implementing so nice see others think it should be supported.

Anyway don't see a reason why you should need to wait for 11th level to use crossbows, so divided that in two abilities, one for unlocking and the other for using crossbows/bows of different sizes.

Although you're sure your example is correct? I believe the whole "bigger creatures can use weapons for smaller creatures as if they were lighter versions of the weapons" to be only from 3.0, and in 3.5 something like an heavy crossbow will always inflict a -4 penalty while fired one-handed regardless of wielder's size (on top of extra penalty for any size difference).

Something to clean up the class's list would be rolling all the "Spell X Arrows" into this:

Infused Spell Arrow: You may combine your Spell Arrow with one Beautiful Bow option of your choice that requires a Standard Action to use, allowing you to use both with one Standard Action for the attack made, or apply the Beautiful Bow option to each attack of a Full Attack made with a multi-target spell through Spell Arrow.

The reason I didn't do that it's because there's only two, plus Spell Phase arrow has extra rules in that it can bypass magic barriers depending on spell level.

Offline Vladeshi

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Re: Arcana Archer
« Reply #14 on: Today at 08:48:19 AM »

Hope of Arrows-You need at least character level 14 to pick this. In lieu of her regular attacks, once per minute an Arcana Archer can fire an arrow at each and every target within range, to a maximum of one target for every arcane archer level she has earned. Each attack uses the archer’s primary attack bonus, and each enemy may only be targeted by a single arrow.


Just a silly little thing I noticed.
Probably just a copy-pasta error.
The following explanation has been removed due to time constraints, character limits on posts, and the DC 30 Spellcraft checks to understand large portions of it.

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Re: Arcana Archer
« Reply #15 on: Today at 10:13:52 AM »
Fixed, thanks.

Pleasantly surprised with so many people interested in this class.