Author Topic: Ravnica: Of Parkinson-Loxodons & Spellcaster supremacy.  (Read 528 times)

Offline Wilb

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Ravnica: Of Parkinson-Loxodons & Spellcaster supremacy.
« on: November 09, 2018, 10:21:04 AM »
So, what are your opinions on the Ravnica stuff?
Lovely Zoma...

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Ravnica: Of Parkinson-Loxodons & Spellcaster supremacy.
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2018, 12:42:02 PM »
I got one. Why are you calling it spellcaster supremacy?

Only thing I've seen to far is Circle of Spores. And it looks kind of interesting since the 14th level ability lets you walk into CC-effects. Going super plant mode at that level also gives 28 temp hp & +1d6 poison to melee which is a nice compliment. The crappy reaction to deal 2d10 but fort negs seems lame. But the reddit image sliced through the zombie which is the highlight to me. It appears that since the zombie re-dies they can just be reanimated turning them into a perpetual zombie that every hour loses it's hp unless the missing text limits this.
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Offline Wilb

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Re: Ravnica: Of Parkinson-Loxodons & Spellcaster supremacy.
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2018, 09:44:08 AM »
Caster supremacy was mentioned because of the "free spell list additions" for being a member of a guild with no similar addition for the non-caster members (as far as I could find searching online discussions).

Also it seems that the Order domain was destroyed, changing its capstone to work only once, not once per ally, which, coupled with its focus on enchantment & charm effects, made it barely an addition over the base Cleric class at higher levels.
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Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Ravnica: Of Parkinson-Loxodons & Spellcaster supremacy.
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2018, 02:23:03 PM »
Oh, see I thought you were talking about the Warlock supremacy item (works great with booming or greenfire blade too)
Quote from: It's all over the Internet, dunno if it's actually in the book through
Illusionist's Bracers
A powerful illusionist of House Dimir originally developed these bracers, which enabled her to create multiple minor illusions at once. The bracers’ power, though, extends far beyond illusions. While wearing the bracers, whenever you cast a cantrip, you can use a bonus action on the same turn to cast that cantrip a second time.
Which, while helpful, firing two 4dX attacks in a single turn really isn't much since most mundanes find a way to use their Bonus Action for a third attack with more bonuses and a magical weapon.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2018, 05:00:34 PM by SorO_Lost »
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Offline Wilb

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Re: Ravnica: Of Parkinson-Loxodons & Spellcaster supremacy.
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2018, 03:14:26 PM »
My booming blade using Tempest Cleric friend nut when he saw that item. Heck most casters with enhanced cantrips would love it, like Death Clerics, maybe nova-prone Whisper bards too.

And that is just another factor for the "Spellcaster supremacy" claim.

Free extra spells for all casters and a magic item to avoid sorcerer dips, because sorcerers weren't ignored enough.
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Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Ravnica: Of Parkinson-Loxodons & Spellcaster supremacy.
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2018, 03:32:45 PM »
And that is just another factor for the "Spellcaster supremacy" claim.
It doesn't matter if I'm on the agreeing side, you still need to be specific.  :P

So I was quoted Mizzium Apparatus's rule text, take it with a grain of salt since this is second hand info but.
Quote from: The "..." is a table of wild magic for other slots
Innovation is a dangerous pursuit, at least the way the mages of the Izzet League engage in it. As protection against the risk of an experiment going awry, they have developed a device to help channel and control their magic. This apparatus is a collection of leather straps, flexible tubing, glass cylinders, and plates, bracers, and fittings made from a magic-infused metal alloy called mizzium, all assembled into a harness. The item weighs 8 pounds. While you are wearing the mizzium apparatus, you can use it as an arcane focus. In addition, you can attempt to cast a spell that you do not know or have prepared. The spell you choose must be on your class’s spell list and of a level for which you have a spell slot, and you must provide the spell’s components. You expend a spell slot to cast the spell as normal, but before resolving it you must make an Intelligence (Arcana) check. The DC is 10 + twice the level of the spell slot you expend to cast the spell. On a successful check, you cast the spell as normal, using your spell save DC and spellcasting ability modifier. On a failed check, you cast a different spell from the one you intended. Randomly determine the spell you cast by rolling on the table for the level of the spell slot you expended. If the slot is 6th level or higher, roll on the table for 5th-level spells. If you try to cast a cantrip you don’t know, the DC for the Intelligence (Arcana) check is 10, and on a failed check, there is no effect.
...
Wondrous Item, uncommon (requires attunement by a sorcerer, warlock, or wizard)
(click to show/hide)
So a Wizard 19/ Cleric 1 as the Spell Slots of a 20th level spellcaster. They can become attuned to Mizzium Apparatus and their Spell List technically includes both Wish and Mass Heal for example. However they do not know any 9th level Cleric Spells and cannot prepare them which is the only limitation provided by the PHB. So it comes down to how you think "your class’s spell list" should be interpreted (and scrolls favor one of these). On the one hand it just makes Wizards massively versatile. And on the other, it does the same thing but better.

Edit - It was brought up so here is something else to think about. If a Divine Soul Sorcerer chooses Bless it becomes a Sorcerer Spell to them and it's part of their Class List. If at the next level they choose to replace bless with lesser restoration then lesser restoration becomes a sorcerer spell to you. The text does not remove Bless's state of being a Sorcerer Spell (and Crawford even uses past tense), only that you no longer know it. It's possible for a Divine Soul Sorcerer to cherry pick multiple Cleric Spells to construct a very large Spell List of unknown and Unprepared Spells.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2018, 04:20:32 PM by SorO_Lost »
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Offline Wilb

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Re: Ravnica: Of Parkinson-Loxodons & Spellcaster supremacy.
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2018, 01:42:22 PM »
And that is just another factor for the "Spellcaster supremacy" claim.
It doesn't matter if I'm on the agreeing side, you still need to be specific.  :P

So I was quoted Mizzium Apparatus's rule text, take it with a grain of salt since this is second hand info but.
Quote from: The "..." is a table of wild magic for other slots
Innovation is a dangerous pursuit, at least the way the mages of the Izzet League engage in it. As protection against the risk of an experiment going awry, they have developed a device to help channel and control their magic. This apparatus is a collection of leather straps, flexible tubing, glass cylinders, and plates, bracers, and fittings made from a magic-infused metal alloy called mizzium, all assembled into a harness. The item weighs 8 pounds. While you are wearing the mizzium apparatus, you can use it as an arcane focus. In addition, you can attempt to cast a spell that you do not know or have prepared. The spell you choose must be on your class’s spell list and of a level for which you have a spell slot, and you must provide the spell’s components. You expend a spell slot to cast the spell as normal, but before resolving it you must make an Intelligence (Arcana) check. The DC is 10 + twice the level of the spell slot you expend to cast the spell. On a successful check, you cast the spell as normal, using your spell save DC and spellcasting ability modifier. On a failed check, you cast a different spell from the one you intended. Randomly determine the spell you cast by rolling on the table for the level of the spell slot you expended. If the slot is 6th level or higher, roll on the table for 5th-level spells. If you try to cast a cantrip you don’t know, the DC for the Intelligence (Arcana) check is 10, and on a failed check, there is no effect.
...
Wondrous Item, uncommon (requires attunement by a sorcerer, warlock, or wizard)
(click to show/hide)
So a Wizard 19/ Cleric 1 as the Spell Slots of a 20th level spellcaster. They can become attuned to Mizzium Apparatus and their Spell List technically includes both Wish and Mass Heal for example. However they do not know any 9th level Cleric Spells and cannot prepare them which is the only limitation provided by the PHB. So it comes down to how you think "your class’s spell list" should be interpreted (and scrolls favor one of these). On the one hand it just makes Wizards massively versatile. And on the other, it does the same thing but better.


Now Imagine a Vedalken Diviner 19(18/ Druid 1) / Knowledge Cleric 1, focusing on Arcana(expertise and racial bonus). With that Ioun stone that increases proficiency by 1 and a casting of Guidance, it takes effort to fail at casting almost any spell in the game.
Lovely Zoma...

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Ravnica: Of Parkinson-Loxodons & Spellcaster supremacy.
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2018, 05:26:43 PM »
I'd bet they want have a r.a.i. for just the 3 classes, but wth would be the paragraphs long wording to get rid of all the other classes?


X 4 / Wiz 1 , and have prodigy on arcana, +3 stat +3 +3 = 10 minimum.  So that's all cantrips.
Tome lock gets 3 from any list, does that translate to any list too?

Level 9 goes +4 stat +4 +4 +1 from a guidance = 14 minimum. So that's all 2s (and 1s).

Hardly thinning a bog standard full caster with 2 stat bumps at all.  And all that versatility in return.
Kitty like.

edit --- clearly Wizard prefers the Int skill goodies.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2018, 05:28:41 PM by awaken_D_M_golem »
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Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Ravnica: Of Parkinson-Loxodons & Spellcaster supremacy.
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2018, 05:00:37 PM »
RogAT 11 for the take 10 ability.
Just enough room to get to 6th level spell slots,
and room for a pile of dip 1s to get lists.
At level 13, it goes 10 +5+5 and +5 stat = 25
covering everything up to the 6s no with problem.

RogAT 11 / Cleric 1 / Druid 1 / Wizard 1 / Warlock 1 / c.d.orwiz 2 to 6
(not specifically in that order but kinda close)
call it :  The Chameleon
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Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Ravnica: Of Parkinson-Loxodons & Spellcaster supremacy.
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2018, 04:11:16 PM »
Rakdos Riteknife is a nice little dagger for melees.

It's a Legendary/Attune +1 dagger that when it murders someone imprisons their soul. It can hold up to five souls which can be expended in one of three ways. All five can be spent on a DC 15 Con save or die with a 75hp & once per long rest limit, a heal 1d10*souls released deal, or you can choose not to use those options because for each soul caged within it it deals an extra +1d4 necrotic damage. In other words, this spiffy dagger deals up to 6d4+1 (16) damage per hit which is about the same as a +2 Flametongue Greatsword except it comes with emergency healing.
Would you die if you jumped from my perceived ego to your IQ? - Is 15secs of confirmation bias a goal post worth arguing for? - Ever asked a "victim" what they did to deserve it? - Are the words teen, SJW, & liberal synonyms? - "Only Sith deals in absolutes" contains a misspelled word.