Author Topic: PF: to Evangelist or not to Evangelist - Looking for Advice  (Read 377 times)

Offline faeryn

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After my previous character was removed from existence by a deity... I rolled up a Half-orc "Bloodrager"... she's really just 1st Lv Bloodrager, 6th Lv Magus, and the remaining 13 Levels planned to be straight Sorcerer... however, the Evangelist prC was recently brought to my attention and I'm actually curious as to if the it might be worth it to build into... We are currently Lv10, and the DM will allow me to take the Deific Obedience Feat at Lv11 to qualify for Evangelist at Lv11, so I'd be taking my remaining 10 levels as Evangelist if I go this route...

My Current Build:
Enlightened Bloodrager:1/Eldritch Scion Magus:6/Crossblooded Sorcerer:3
Bloodrager Bloodline: Elemental[Fire]
Eldritch Scion Bloodline: Elemental[Fire]
Sorcerer Bloodlines: Elemental[Fire] & Orc (Selecting Orc bloodline powers at each level)
Favored Class: Magus & Sorcerer (Eclectic)
Deity: Gorum
Feats:
Fire God's Blessing (DM Allowed Gorum to quality)
Power Attack
Arcane Strike
Eclectic
Blooded Arcane Strike
Mad Magic (Magus Bonus Feat)
Magus Arcanas:
Flamboyant Arcana
Broad Study

She is a very heavy melee focused character, with spells used largely to enhance her combat ability, and the bonus of being able to add in Spellstrike to make her hits even more devastating...

I had originally planned to take Vital Strike at 11th Level and the finish up my Feats with Extra Rage at 13th, Devastating Strike at 15th, Maximize Spell at 17th, and Improved Vital Strike at 19th...

if I take Evangelist, I'd be dropping Maximize Spell off my feat list and it'll delay my Vital Strike feat progression a bit...

Depending on if Aligned Class qualifies for Sorcerer Favored Class progression or not, I might retrain Eclectic and replace it with Extra Rage to allow me to get my Vital Strike feat progression completed earlier... and that will open up an extra feat to possibly take Maximize Spell again (or something else that might fit)...

From what I can see on my own it looks like the pros and cons of going evangalist are:

Pros
  • Max BAB +14 vs +11
  • d8 vs d6 HD
  • 6+INT skills vs 2+INT
  • +2 Dodge to AC
  • Gorum's Obediance bonus (I think it was an atk or damage bonus, don't have the book in front of me atm)
  • +4 Sacred bonus to untrained skill checks
  • Know(Religion), Diplomacy, Heal, +2 bonus Skills as Class Skills

Cons
  • CL 12 vs CL 13 Sorcerer spells
  • Delayed Bloodline progression 1 level
  • loss of 13th lv bloodline feat
  • loss of 13th lv bloodline spell
  • Required daily deific obedience
  • Feat requirement
  • possible loss of Favored Class Bonus (+6 damage to Fire Damage spells)
  • +4 Str vs +6 Str from Strength of Beasts bloodline power
  • Suffer Light Sensitivity for 1 extra level (Orc Bloodline Arcana)

As it stands... I'm not really sure if the pros outweigh the cons on this one... The loss of 1CL doesn't have a major impact on me, since I'm already giving up 7CLs of Sorcerer for 6Lv Magus and 1Lv Bloodrager...
« Last Edit: May 08, 2019, 05:09:44 PM by faeryn »

Offline Power

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Re: PF: to Evangelist or not to Evangelist - Looking for Advice
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2019, 04:48:22 PM »
I have no idea what this build is supposed to do. It just looks bad to my eyes. But to answer your question: You don't get any favored class bonus at all when you level a prestige class. It's part of what makes prestiging so awful for spontaneous classes, since they are normally heavily dependent on the bonus spells known favored class bonus. You can get around that a bit with a Mnemonic Vestment, Paragon Surge for Expanded Arcana, or, as a Sorcerer, being 9th-level Razmiran Priest (giving you constant access to all the divine spells whose scrolls you can lay your hands on) or Mongrel Mage (which lets you get different bloodline spells on a day-to-day basis or use the level 9 bloodline power of the Arcane bloodline to spontaneously add any sorcerer spell you need to your spells known list).

Offline faeryn

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Re: PF: to Evangelist or not to Evangelist - Looking for Advice
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2019, 10:03:55 PM »
I have no idea what this build is supposed to do. It just looks bad to my eyes. But to answer your question: You don't get any favored class bonus at all when you level a prestige class. It's part of what makes prestiging so awful for spontaneous classes, since they are normally heavily dependent on the bonus spells known favored class bonus. You can get around that a bit with a Mnemonic Vestment, Paragon Surge for Expanded Arcana, or, as a Sorcerer, being 9th-level Razmiran Priest (giving you constant access to all the divine spells whose scrolls you can lay your hands on) or Mongrel Mage (which lets you get different bloodline spells on a day-to-day basis or use the level 9 bloodline power of the Arcane bloodline to spontaneously add any sorcerer spell you need to your spells known list).

The build is really just a melee caster built around utilizing bloodrage and spellstrike to its fullest extent. Quite honestly, if the Orc bloodline was available to Bloodrager, and if Bloodrager got bloodline arcana's it would have been just Bloodrager & Magus... but with the Orc bloodline being Sorcerer only, and Bloodline Arcana's being Sorcerer only. I opted to build mostly sorcerer... with 1 level of Bloodrager to set the foundation of the build and Magus remains as the backbone for Spellstrike along with Spell Combat to improve action economy with combat buffs.

Really at this point, my question ultimately comes down to this:

Are the benefits of the Evangelist prC worth giving up +6 damage to Fire spells, 1 level of Sorcerer spellcasting, 1 Bloodline Spell & Feat, and delaying my Bloodline progression by 1 level?

Offline Power

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Re: PF: to Evangelist or not to Evangelist - Looking for Advice
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2019, 04:02:03 PM »
It may be a bit late, but as indicated above, the answer is no. And for a melee caster you generally just want to go full Magus or take a Wizard and fiddle with EK or Hellknight Signifier prestige classes.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2019, 04:09:01 AM by Power »

Offline faeryn

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Re: PF: to Evangelist or not to Evangelist - Looking for Advice
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2019, 04:12:50 PM »
I have my reasons for the build being the way it is... and to be 100% honest, Evangelist is the only prestige class that could actually work with the build... continuing her Orc Bloodline progression is an absolute must, which is the reason for going Sorcerer for most of the levels in the original build.

The single level of Bloodrager was really just to set the basis for the character's build as well a Bloodrager... but full progression of the bloodrager class is kinda poor... however, since she's built around using Bloodrage, I made sure to get the Mad Magic feat so she could use non-bloodrager spells in a Bloodrage.

The levels of Magus are really just there to allow her to actually utilize her spells in melee combat effectively, and due to multiclassing I had to take a minimum of 6 levels of Magus for the Broad Study Arcana to allow her to use spells from other classes for Spellstrike thus allowing her to utilize her higher caster level from Sorcerer for more potent Spellstrikes from sorcerer spells in the long run.

Sorcerer is the only class that offers the Orc Bloodline, so Crossblooded Sorcerer with Elemental[Fire] (required due to how Bloodrager bloodlines work, and the arcana pairs great with Orc Favored Class bonus for both Magus & Sorcerer) and Orc (the Bloodline she's actually progressing) Bloodlines... Really the whole point in Sorcerer on this build is the Orc Bloodline... it is actually a pretty damn strong melee caster bloodline. The added benefit of higher level spells is just a nice bonus, and with losing 7 levels to other classes already, not really a big bonus since it ends up just being 1 extra spell level.

Besides Evangelist the only other PrC that progresses bloodlines is Dragonfire Disciple, and that requires the Draconic bloodline, which is not a fit for this character. Sure I could have in theory taken Draconic instead of Elemental, but I had backstory reasons for going with Elemental.

That all said... I was really hoping someone would give a thought out analysis in regards to the Evangelist prestige class and how it may or may not fit in with a particular build, rather than a flat yes or no... because how it stands I'm looking at it thinking the biggest downside for her is just a 1 level delay on her bloodline progression, which really isn't that detrimental since we're playing with Mythic Tiers and I can just get +4 to my bloodline level for determining the strength of bloodline powers when we get our next mythic tier.

As for if it's too late or not... not yet... we're still level 10... havn't progressed to 11 yet which is when I'd be taking the first level of the PrC or not. We've had a lot of primarily RP only sessions over the last month and ended our session last night with a large combat that might kill some of us about to begin...
« Last Edit: June 02, 2019, 04:14:46 PM by faeryn »

Offline Power

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Re: PF: to Evangelist or not to Evangelist - Looking for Advice
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2019, 10:09:18 PM »
It's also a dead level on your sorcerer spell progression and you lose out on your sorcerer's favored class bonus (which should be extra spells known - losing this is a massive loss in character capability, esp. if you went cross-blooded). There is another prestige class that will give you a bloodline, by the way, it's the Bloatmage (but only with its level 10 capstone). Also, a Robe of Arcane Heritage will give you another +4 to bloodline level, and it will let you use bloodline powers from a lower level. I guess if you have the Wild Arcana power and/or invest in Page of Spell Knowledge, the loss of spells known can be managed, but it still seems rather unpleasant.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2019, 03:49:28 PM by Power »

Offline faeryn

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Re: PF: to Evangelist or not to Evangelist - Looking for Advice
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2019, 12:46:39 AM »
When your far from being the only spell-caster in the party, a more limited spell list isn’t that big of a deal... especially when your spell selection is more highly specialized than the others. Which is why I haven’t bothered with the human sorcerer FC bonus spells.

I’ve already got the robe of arcane heritage... and bloatmage, while it does have some nice class features, it has its own entire host of major drawbacks... the -20 movement speed being one of the worst for a front-line melee build like mine...