Author Topic: How safe is it to be a wizard in dnd when mystra constantly dies?  (Read 578 times)

Offline mrttao

  • Lurker
  • *
  • Posts: 9
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
I have noticed in discussions about what you would do if dropped in faerun, or fanfics, or just general stories set in faerun or similar dnd lands that people tend to think being a wizard is the best.

However, is this really such a good idea? for all of a wizard's power, Mystra keeps on dying and that causes many wizards to have their head explode or something. Isn't being a wizard known as an incredibly unsafe occupation by now?

Mystra Deaths:
-339 DR = Karsus' folly
1358 DR = Time of Troubles, killed by helm
1385 DR = Killed by Cyric and Shar
1480 DR = came back to life, spellplague finally over
1482 DR = for once an edition change that does not involve mystra dying. instead its Ao doing another sundering

So... yea. being a wizard doesn't seem like the healthiest career choice considering the above. Karsus was far enough away to be considered an outlier. But then she manages to die twice a mere 27 years apart. Magic is then horrible for almost a hundred years, and then you get a new edition a mere 2 years after the last catastrophy finally ended.
Would you really trust your life to such an iffy prospect?

Offline ketaro

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4129
  • I'm always new!
    • View Profile
Re: How safe is it to be a wizard in dnd when mystra constantly dies?
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2019, 06:27:06 AM »
Because at least 1600 years of ingraining magic into ppls lives from -339 to 1358 isnt, ahem, magically going to make it all disappear from ppls minds just cause it got a little risky. Even a borked wizard is better than anything else nonmagical, powerwise.

Being a paladin is far more dangerous than being a wizard would ever be. You're not allowed to avoid trouble whereas being a wizard is all about avoiding trouble.

Offline mrttao

  • Lurker
  • *
  • Posts: 9
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: How safe is it to be a wizard in dnd when mystra constantly dies?
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2019, 08:15:45 AM »
Because at least 1600 years of ingraining magic into ppls lives from -339 to 1358 isnt, ahem, magically going to make it all disappear from ppls minds just cause it got a little risky. Even a borked wizard is better than anything else nonmagical, powerwise.
People don't remember what happened 1000 years ago, the last 200 years are characterized with multiple mystra deaths, with 1/3rd of wizards just flat out dying from the backlash of her death (at least on the 3rd death. 1st death it was almost all of them, not sure how many died 2nd death). And then massive parts of the world being ravaged by spellplague.
The fact she managed to die twice in the last 200 years is concerning and is recent history that people would actually know and remember. Heck most races live longer than 200 years, so you should know people who lived through 2 of her deaths.
Being a paladin is far more dangerous than being a wizard would ever be. You're not allowed to avoid trouble whereas being a wizard is all about avoiding trouble.
You are vastly exaggerating paladin falling mechanic. Were there two instances where 1/3rd of all paladins died spontaneously (or just fell) in the past 200 years? I don't think so.

Also, there are other options between just wizard and paladin. Clerics, druids, and psions were all just fine when mystra died.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2019, 08:32:02 AM by mrttao »

Offline Nanshork

  • Homebrew Reviewer
  • *****
  • Posts: 11918
    • View Profile
Re: How safe is it to be a wizard in dnd when mystra constantly dies?
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2019, 11:13:57 AM »
Because all of that only matters if the DM makes it matter.

Offline ketaro

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4129
  • I'm always new!
    • View Profile
Re: How safe is it to be a wizard in dnd when mystra constantly dies?
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2019, 04:53:03 PM »
I wasnt talking about fallen paladins. I referred to them as having to clean up after these messes like the spellplague. That shit was a huge dangerous mess to have little choice but to wade into and clean up.

You also cant say ppl dont remember what happened before mystra started dying every other week and then say most people live a lot longer than just the last 200 years of history. Yes, ppl do know whats it like to have stable arcane power.

Yeah, arcane magic will always be a popular choice because the alternative divine magic usually has a lot of asinine rules to follow as part of faith and religion and devotion to a specific god always judging you. Wizards got no rules. Hell, theyre even allowed to kill their arcane gods if they can.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2019, 04:57:15 PM by ketaro »

Offline Nanshork

  • Homebrew Reviewer
  • *****
  • Posts: 11918
    • View Profile
Re: How safe is it to be a wizard in dnd when mystra constantly dies?
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2019, 07:06:59 PM »
Also all PC classes are iffy prospects at low levels.  It's not like other classes have guaranteed long lives just because their magic isn't fucked with when Mystra dies.

Lastly, at least around here, 3.5 is the edition pretty much everyone cares about so generally people have no interest in what happens in later editions so most of those deaths aren't counted.

Offline Nanashi

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 89
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: How safe is it to be a wizard in dnd when mystra constantly dies?
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2019, 07:35:20 PM »
People's opinions on wizardy in Faerun don't change for the same reason their opinions on literally everything else don't change: The Harpers a "good" organization devoted to technological and cultural stagnation.

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 7482
  • (un-) Amazingly Unproductive
    • View Profile
Re: How safe is it to be a wizard in dnd when mystra constantly dies?
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2019, 04:56:31 PM »
hmm  :??? lots here to go on.


Grand History Of The Realms book, is trans-/multi- editional.
It specifically says so.  However 5e wasn't on the table at that time.
idk what wotc "official" statements have been made since maybe 2010 onward.

I don't think it's known what Know(Religion) or Know(Arcana)
check DCs are necessary to find out what the Archerons
the gawds are warring amongst themselves about.
Commoners can hit DC 29s straightforwardly, so it's gotta be higher than that.

 :tongue
Paladins fall.  They aren't trained in tumble and have armor check penalties.
Paladins die too.  Over and over.  They're the reason resurrection got invented.
 :eh
Your codpiece is a mimic.

Offline Nanshork

  • Homebrew Reviewer
  • *****
  • Posts: 11918
    • View Profile
Re: How safe is it to be a wizard in dnd when mystra constantly dies?
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2019, 06:56:56 PM »
Paladins fall.  They aren't trained in tumble and have armor check penalties.

 :lmao :lmao

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 7482
  • (un-) Amazingly Unproductive
    • View Profile
Re: How safe is it to be a wizard in dnd when mystra constantly dies?
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2019, 05:07:54 PM »
off topic --- Nanshork I sent you a PM
Your codpiece is a mimic.

Offline mrttao

  • Lurker
  • *
  • Posts: 9
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: How safe is it to be a wizard in dnd when mystra constantly dies?
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2019, 09:53:17 AM »
Paladins fall.  They aren't trained in tumble and have armor check penalties.
Thank you, this made my day.

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 7482
  • (un-) Amazingly Unproductive
    • View Profile
Re: How safe is it to be a wizard in dnd when mystra constantly dies?
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2019, 04:56:04 PM »
 :D

< off topic --- yeah I figured, the warning though still stands.  Hopefully that never shows round here. >


If the Karsus Avatar (or wtf) spell is Level 12, I suppose a "Lesser Deicide" spell that would work on demigawds is Level 13.
So then there's a Mass Lesser Deicide perhaps a level 16.  And working it on up some more, to replicate what the Spellplague did ...

Killing a Plane is tricky to measure.
The Draeden are sleeping/waiting out the Gawds, and one of them is either a layer of the abyss or the whole abyss.
They were assuming / "knowledge-ing" they could do so ... meaning to kill a plane is to un-do fluff assumptions that are 40+ years old and multi-editional.

Gate could bring in a Psion 7 / Planar Vanguard 10.
And that dude could have mindswapped with his psicrystal that's now a Genesis Demiplane.
So that's transporting a small and limited demiplane.

Gate + Linked + PowerWordKill + boosted even further = epic spell with a DC in the 60s.
And that's only killing a lowly level 17 npc (ho hum) demiplane.
otoh ... a psicrystal + the demiplane abiilty, are both (su) and technically don't work in an Anti-Magic Field.
Well targeted level 6 spell = dead demiplane.
Your codpiece is a mimic.

Offline mrttao

  • Lurker
  • *
  • Posts: 9
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: How safe is it to be a wizard in dnd when mystra constantly dies?
« Reply #12 on: July 08, 2019, 04:07:51 AM »
If the Karsus Avatar (or wtf) spell is Level 12, I suppose a "Lesser Deicide" spell that would work on demigawds is Level 13.
So then there's a Mass Lesser Deicide perhaps a level 16.  And working it on up some more, to replicate what the Spellplague did ...
Karsus avatar is a level 12 spell that was able to steal the divinity of a greater goddess (one of the most powerful ones at that).
Why would it imply that a spell that can kill mere demigods is even higher level?

Offline Samwise

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 506
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: How safe is it to be a wizard in dnd when mystra constantly dies?
« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2019, 12:34:25 PM »
I suggest you find a portal to Oerth.

Boccob doesn't up and die like that. He doesn't care, but he doesn't die.
Wee Jas has death in her portfolio so you know she isn't going anywhere. Keep Charisma as your dump stat and don't be a necromancers and things are great there. Sorcerers are hosed, and everyone knows conjuration and transmutation are way better to specialize in.
Vecna does constantly die and come back, but at this point it is clear it is just a gimmick and really doesn't mean much of anything.
Zagyg just wants to have a good laugh, and since he works for Boccob he is not going anywhere either.

Greyhawk
Our deities of magic don't die every edition!*
(*Except for Vecna, but he's just doing it for the attention so ignore him until he comes back.)