Author Topic: Favored Soul Changes  (Read 1013 times)

Offline RobbyPants

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Favored Soul Changes
« on: November 03, 2019, 10:48:36 AM »
The idea of the favored soul is kind of interesting, but it falls way behind the cleric. The biggest two problems I can think of with the class are that they don't get Turn Undead (which shuts them out of cleric tricks) and they don't have enough spells known to fulfill the restorative duties of a cleric. Clerics as a class work because they're only ever 24 hours away from having the proper Remove ___ spell prepared for long-duration debuffs.

I was tossing around some relatively simple changes that could deal with that. Also, I moved up some of the class features that are just granted way too late.


Skills: Add Intimidate and Knowledge (Religion) to the favored soul class list.

Spells: Use Charisma to determine spell DCs, bonus spell slots, and the highest level spell the favored soul can cast.

Damage Reduction: Gained at 2nd level instead of 20th; however, instead of 10 points of damage reduction, the damage is reduced to half the favored soul level (round down).

Deity’s Weapon Specialization: Gain at 6th level instead of 12th.

Wings: Gain this ability at 9th level instead of 17th.

Divine Focus (Su): at 1st level the favored soul can focus divine energy into her spells. Once per round, as a swift action, she may lower the effective level of a favored soul spell effected by one or more metamagic feats. She gains a number of “levels” of this ability equal to her Charisma modifier plus three.
   When used, this ability lowers the effective level of the spell cast equal to a number of “levels” of Divine Focus spent. The effective level of the spell cannot be lowered below its original level. The maximum number of “levels” that may be applied with each use of this ability is equal to half the Favored Soul’s class level, round up.
   For example, a 3rd level Favored Soul could apply two “levels” of Divine Focus to cast an Empowered Cure Moderate Wounds as a 2nd level spell. She could also apply two “levels” to cast a Maximized Cure Light Wounds as a 2nd level spell. She would not be able to cast a Maximized Cure Moderate Wounds because it would be a 3rd level spell, still beyond her ability to cast.
    Uses of Divine Focus can be used to trigger other abilities (such as some domain abilities, devotion feats, or [Divine] feats) as Turn/Rebuke Undead attempts. This ability counts as Turn/Rebuke Undead for purposes of meeting prerequisites for feats and prestige classes. She may take the Extra Turning feat to instead grant four more daily uses of Divine Focus.

Restorative/Destructive Magic: At 1st level, the favored soul automatically adds several spells to her list of spells known, in addition to any spells she would already know. A favored soul that turns undead gains Restorative Magic and a favored soul that rebukes undead gains Destructive Magic.
  • Restorative Magic spells gained: 0 – Cure Minor Wounds; 1st -0 – Cure Light Wounds, Remove Fear; 2nd – Cure Moderate Wounds, Lesser Restoration, Remove Paralysis; 3rd – Cure Serious Wounds, Remove Blindness/Deafness, Remove Curse, Remove Disease; 4th – Cure Critical Wounds, Restoration; 5th – Mass Cure Light Wounds, Raise Dead; 6th – Mass Cure Moderate Wounds; 7th – Greater Restoration, Mass Cure Serious Wounds, Resurrection; 8th – Mass Cure Critical Wounds
  • Destructive Magic Spells gained: 0 – Inflict Minor Wounds; 1st – Cause Fear, Inflict Light Wounds; 2nd – Hold Person, Inflict Moderate Wounds, Touch of Idiocy*; 3rd – Bestow Curse, Blindness/Deafness, Contagion, Inflict Serious Wounds; 4th – Enervation*, Inflict Critical Wounds; 5th – Mass Inflict Light Wounds, Slay Living; 6th – Mass Inflict Moderate Wounds; 7th – Destruction, Mass Inflict Serious Wounds, Waves of Exhaustion*; 8th – Mass Inflict Critical Wounds
    *From Sorcerer/Wizard list. Cast as divine spell.
Domains: At 2nd level, a favored soul gains one of the domains of her deity. She gains the granted ability for the domain and adds every domain spell to her list of spells known. These are in addition to the spells she knows for her class level. Any spell she learns with this ability that she already knows (either from having chosen it for through Restorative or Destructive Magic) is cast at +2 caster level. For example: if the favored soul has Cure Light Wounds from her Restorative Magic class feature and she chooses the Healing Domain, she could cast the spell at +3 caster level (+2 from this ability, and +1 from the Healing Domain’s granted ability).
At 7th level and 12th level, the favored soul gains an additional domain granted by her deity. She gains the granted ability and spells just as she did for her first domain.


So, evil favored souls still lack the wide access to the various Cure, Restoration, and Remove ___ spells, but they get some offensive ones in place. Personally, I could see dropping this feature, but the rest of the system seems to really like evil divine casters getting these types of spells, so I'm adding this for legacy reasons. They can always take CLW and get wands, like many other classes.


What do you think? Is this something you'd play? Do you see any abuses? I don't think it's better than the cleric, but I wanted to close the gap a bit.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2020, 11:17:40 PM by RobbyPants »
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Offline Skyrock

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Re: Favored Soul Changes
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2019, 11:25:03 AM »
I think this sits still solidly in Tier 2. Some more elbow room in spell selection, better spread out class features, Charisma-SAD without Dynamic Priest trickery, and as the biggies Turn/Rebuke and much earlier access to a fly speed.

Purely mechanically in a white room I'd still prefer UA Spontaneous Cleric for a T2 version of Cleric just for the extra domain and the splat support, but I think this is a solid revision.

Cure Light Wounds appears both on spell lvl1 and lvl4.

Offline Stratovarius

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Re: Favored Soul Changes
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2019, 11:27:34 AM »
Feels like a cleric, at this point, except spontaneous. At that point, why play something other than a Cleric?

Offline skydragonknight

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Re: Favored Soul Changes
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2019, 12:26:10 PM »
I feel like it should have it's own thing that isn't Turn Undead but still counts as such for prereqs/powering feats.
Hmm.

Offline RobbyPants

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Re: Favored Soul Changes
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2019, 03:01:02 PM »
I think this sits still solidly in Tier 2. Some more elbow room in spell selection, better spread out class features, Charisma-SAD without Dynamic Priest trickery, and as the biggies Turn/Rebuke and much earlier access to a fly speed.

Purely mechanically in a white room I'd still prefer UA Spontaneous Cleric for a T2 version of Cleric just for the extra domain and the splat support, but I think this is a solid revision.
Thanks. It was somewhat what I wanted.

I don't want to really replicate cleric abuses, but what do you think makes this weaker? Just less overall versatility with spells known?


Cure Light Wounds appears both on spell lvl1 and lvl4.
Good catch.


Feels like a cleric, at this point, except spontaneous. At that point, why play something other than a Cleric?
Yeah, this might be an issue of me holding it up to the cleric for a point of comparison. Skydragonknight might be onto something...


I feel like it should have it's own thing that isn't Turn Undead but still counts as such for prereqs/powering feats.
This could work. I'll have to give it some thought.

Perhaps some form of divine channeling (3 + Cha mod) / day. Perhaps they can be used as a swift/immediate action for a +2 boost to an attack, AC, DC, or save? Maybe these are used to cast spells off the Restorative/Destructive Magic list?

Should I just use the first list and nix the Destructive magic list?
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Offline Stratovarius

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Re: Favored Soul Changes
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2019, 04:17:13 PM »
Well, there's favoured souls of neutral and evil goods. As well as Law and Chaos. So I'd perhaps try and account for that.

One thing that might work is giving them a pool to power either Devotion or Divine feats without needing Turn.

Offline RobbyPants

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Re: Favored Soul Changes
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2019, 06:48:55 PM »
One thing that might work is giving them a pool to power either Devotion or Divine feats without needing Turn.
Ultimately, that's why I'd want them to have it. I'd like the attempts to do something, though, too. I'll give it a bit of thought. I just finished up a Roll20 game since the last post, so I haven't had much time to elaborate on this.
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Offline RobbyPants

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Re: Favored Soul Changes
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2019, 08:36:13 PM »
How about if I replace Turn/Rebuke Undead with the following ability:

Divine Focus (Su): at 1st level the favored soul can focus divine energy into her spells. As a swift action, she may increase the caster level of the first spell she casts this round by +2. She may use this ability a number of times per day equal to her Charisma modifier plus three. This cannot be used to increase her caster level of spells from other classes.
   Uses of Divine Focus can be used to trigger other abilities (such as some domain abilities, devotion feats, or [Divine] feats) as Turn/Rebuke Undead attempts. This ability counts as Turn/Rebuke Undead for purposes of meeting prerequisites for feats and prestige classes.


Then, I could make an Extra Divine Focus feat that grants four more uses per day.
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Offline Stratovarius

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Re: Favored Soul Changes
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2019, 08:38:30 PM »
What happens if you have multiple swifts?

Offline RobbyPants

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Re: Favored Soul Changes
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2019, 09:59:21 PM »
What happens if you have multiple swifts?
My first thought was you don't get more than one, but there are a few weird ways to do it. Part of me wants to not worry, because the only ways I can think of take a heavy investment of other class levels, but it's just as easy to say "you can only use this ability once per round".
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Offline Kethrian

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Re: Favored Soul Changes
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2020, 02:54:20 AM »
You could also just give the bonus a type, and suddenly it won't stack with itself.

Maybe at higher levels, the Divine Focus buff could be applied to other things?  Like skill checks, ability checks, spell penetration, saving throws?
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Offline RobbyPants

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Re: Favored Soul Changes
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2020, 11:10:29 AM »
Dusting this off after a while...

I'm thinking about this to replace Turn/Rebuke Undead:


Divine Focus (Su): at 1st level the favored soul can focus divine energy into her spells. Once per round, as a swift action, she may lower the effective level of a favored soul spell effected by one or more metamagic feats. She gains a number of “levels” of this ability equal to her Charisma modifier plus three.
   When used, this ability lowers the effective level of the spell cast equal to a number of “levels” of Divine Focus spent. The effective level of the spell cannot be lowered below its original level. The maximum number of “levels” that may be applied with each use of this ability is equal to half the Favored Soul’s class level, round up.
   For example, a 3rd level Favored Soul could apply two “levels” of Divine Focus to cast an Empowered Cure Moderate Wounds as a 2nd level spell. She could also apply two “levels” to cast a Maximized Cure Light Wounds as a 2nd level spell. She would not be able to cast a Maximized Cure Moderate Wounds because it would be a 3rd level spell, still beyond her ability to cast.
    Uses of Divine Focus can be used to trigger other abilities (such as some domain abilities, devotion feats, or [Divine] feats) as Turn/Rebuke Undead attempts. This ability counts as Turn/Rebuke Undead for purposes of meeting prerequisites for feats and prestige classes. She may take the Extra Turning feat to instead grant four more daily uses of Divine Focus.



It's sort of a watered down version of Divine Metamagic. You'd still be able to pull of a DMM Persist, but not until level 11, and I'm honestly not that worried about it. You could also persist lower level spells before that point, if you're willing to spend higher level slots on lower level spells.
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Offline Stratovarius

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Re: Favored Soul Changes
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2020, 02:06:31 PM »
As far as a power boost/ability, looks fine to me.

Offline Skyrock

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Re: Favored Soul Changes
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2020, 02:16:27 PM »
Seems like a good change, and one that would give a reason to picked the revised Favoured Soul over an UA Spontaneous Cleric.

I assume the FS could use Nightsticks to gain extra uses of Divine Focus?

Offline RobbyPants

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Re: Favored Soul Changes
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2020, 11:18:25 PM »
I updated that feature in the OP.

I assume the FS could use Nightsticks to gain extra uses of Divine Focus?
I'd rule Nightsticks could work for that. I guess you'd have to pick what you're applying them to.
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Offline Kethrian

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Re: Favored Soul Changes
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2020, 11:32:27 PM »
With the new Divine Focus, should you maybe give FS a few bonus feats to spend on metamagic?  And maybe Rapid Metamagic?
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Offline RobbyPants

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Re: Favored Soul Changes
« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2020, 09:20:19 AM »
With the new Divine Focus, should you maybe give FS a few bonus feats to spend on metamagic?  And maybe Rapid Metamagic?
I think compared to other classes, they wouldn't need it. Clerics don't get bonus feats and they do just fine. You could pick even a single feat you like to use and apply Divine Focus to it pretty handily.

That being said, I think most feats are trash relative to how often you get them and I house-rule one feat per level in my games.
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Offline RobbyPants

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Re: Favored Soul Changes
« Reply #17 on: June 14, 2020, 09:31:57 AM »
Maybe part of this is the changes I made to the number of spells a sorcerer knows, but I feel like this is a bit much. I ran a 15th level favored soul against a 13th level party, and it alone was a pretty good boss fight.

Divine Focus seems a bit much, and honestly, I'm effectively giving out DMM for free. I'm thinking maybe this should just be Turn/Rebuke Undead and make them pay for it.

I'm thinking I could get rid of the Restorative/Destructive Magic feature. Getting extra spells known from domains is already a pretty big help. Plus I already dole out an extra spell known per level with my sorcerer changes, anyway.

I'm debating if it's too much to give out a domain and Turn/Rebuke Undead at level 1. A vanilla cleric gets two domains and Turn/Rebuke Undead at level 1...
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Offline Stratovarius

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Re: Favored Soul Changes
« Reply #18 on: June 22, 2020, 11:17:01 AM »
If you give everything at level one, like cleric, there's no incentive to stay with the class. And I think that might happen with the FS as well.

Offline RobbyPants

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Re: Favored Soul Changes
« Reply #19 on: June 25, 2020, 09:11:15 AM »
If you give everything at level one, like cleric, there's no incentive to stay with the class. And I think that might happen with the FS as well.
I'm thinking a domain at level 1 and Turn/Rebuke Undead at level 2.
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