Author Topic: A bard and rogue ACF  (Read 84 times)

Offline RobbyPants

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A bard and rogue ACF
« on: November 16, 2019, 10:59:39 AM »
I have two ACFs I created, and I'm curious about your thoughts on these (both from a balance standpoint and interestingness to play).


Bard Variant: Arcane Rogue
Arcane Rogues are bards that have given up their inspirational abilities for guile and subterfuge.
Gain: Add the following class features.
  • Add Disable Device, Open Lock, and Search to the Arcane Rogue’s class skills.
  • An Arcane Rogue gains the Rogue’s Trapfinding ability at 1st level.
  • An Arcane Rogue gains the Ranged Legerdemain ability of an Arcane Trickster at 1st level. He can use this ability once per day and gains an additional daily use every three levels (2/day at 3rd level, 3/day at 6th, etc).
  • At 2nd level an Arcane Rogue gains the Sneak Attack ability of a Rogue. He gains +1d6 Sneak Attack damage at 2nd level, and an additional 1d6 damage every two levels thereafter (+2d6 at 4th level, +3d6 at 6th, etc).
  • An Arcane Rogue gains the Uncanny Dodge ability of a Rogue at 5th level and Uncanny Dodge at 11th.
Lose: Remove the following features from the Bard:
  • The Arcane Rogue has a poor Reflex save progression (same progression as the Fortitude save).
  • Bardic Music
  • Countersong
  • Fascinate
  • Inspire Courage
  • Suggestion
  • Inspire Greatness
  • Song of Freedom
  • Inspire Heroics
  • Mass Suggestion
I'm struggling thinking about how good a full (albeit slightly delayed) Sneak Attack progression is. Is this about right? Is the loss of a good Reflex save necessary?

I'm basically looking to make something like an Arcane Trickster playable from level 1. I toyed with adjusting the spell list, but I currently decided to go with the same Bard list.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2019, 08:24:13 PM by RobbyPants »
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Offline RobbyPants

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Re: A bard and rogue ACF
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2019, 10:59:52 AM »
Rogue Variant: Shade
Shades are Rogues that have traded some of their acrobatic abilities for shadow abilities.
Gain: Add the following class features.
  • Shadow Illusion (Sp): At 1st level, a Shade may use Silent Image three times per day as a spell-like ability with a caster level equal to her class level. The illusions created always appear as shadows but may take any shape within the limits of the spell. This may make the illusions less believable in bright light but they will likely fit in areas of shadowy illumination.
  • Darkness (Sp): At 2nd level, a Shade may use Darkness as a spell-like ability once per day with a caster level equal to her class level. She gains an additional daily use at 4th and 6th level and may cast it at will at 8th level.
  • Shadow Vision (Ex): At 3rd level, a Shade may see normally in areas of low light or shadowy illumination. She does not suffer the miss chance normally caused by these light levels.
  • Darkvision (Ex): At 3rd level, a Shade gains darkvision out to 60 feet.
  • Shadow Cache (Sp): At 4th level, a Shade can use Shadow Cache (Spell Compendium) three times per day as a spell-like ability with a caster level equal to her class level.
  • Shadow Door (Su): At 6th level, a Shade may use Dimension Door as a spell-like ability once per day with a caster level equal to her class level; however, she must start and end her travel in a shadow (other than her own) or an area of shadowy illumination or darkness. When using this ability, she immediately is aware of all suitable areas within range. She gains an additional daily use at every three levels after 6th (2/day at 9th, 3/day at 12th, etc).
  • Improved Darkness (Su): At 8th level, a Shade may use Deeper Darkness instead of Darkness with her Darkness ability. In addition, she may now use it as a swift action.
  • Shadow Strike (Su): At 10th level, a Shade may forgo 1d6 points of Sneak Attack damage when making a Sneak Attack. If she does, she inflicts 1d6 points of Strength damage to the target in addition to the normal damage she does. She may use this ability once per round.
  • Shadow Form (Su): At 13th level, a Shade may become incorporeal so long as she is in an area of shadowy illumination or darkness. While in this form, she cannot deal normal damage to corporeal targets, but she may make a touch attack once per round that deals 1d6 points of Strength damage. A Shade may use this ability a number of minutes per day equal to her class level. She may suppress or activate this ability as a standard action.
  • Quick Door (Su): At 16th level, a Shade may use her Shadow Door ability as a move action. She may now use this this ability at will.
Lose: Remove the following features from the Rogue:
  • A Shade only gains 6 (+ her Int mod) skill points per level (x4 at 1st level).
  • Evasion
  • Trap Sense
  • Uncanny Dodge
  • Improved Uncanny Dodge
  • Special Ability
This one has a lot of stuff, but I don't feel like any of it is really outside of level-appropriate. I wasn't really sure if abilities like Shadow Illusion and Shadow Door should be (Su) or (Sp). They're SLAs, but they have different names than the spells and have modified limitations.
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Offline Skyrock

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Re: A bard and rogue ACF
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2019, 06:09:27 PM »
Note that Trickster is already the name of a Spellthief ACF which adds bard-speed spellcasting. I would consider renaming it, especially as they end up conceptually very, very similar.

Offline RobbyPants

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Re: A bard and rogue ACF
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2019, 08:18:26 PM »
Note that Trickster is already the name of a Spellthief ACF which adds bard-speed spellcasting. I would consider renaming it, especially as they end up conceptually very, very similar.
I was not aware of that. Thanks.

I'd originally named the thing "arcane rogue", which I didn't like as much, but I'll revert back to that unless someone thinks of a better name.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2019, 08:21:40 PM by RobbyPants »
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