Author Topic: Theurge Casting Spells from Other Class's Slots  (Read 274 times)

Offline Endarire

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Theurge Casting Spells from Other Class's Slots
« on: April 07, 2020, 01:59:21 AM »
Greetings, all!

As mentioned in certain recent threads, I plan to play a Druid6/Wizard1/Arcane Hierophant10/Mystic TheurgeX using early entry.  This thread isn't for general build advice, nor do I intend to change this build any time soon!  Instead, this thread is to learn what official options exist in official D&D 3.5 books, web articles, and magazine articles that answer this question:  For a Druid/Wizard, how can I prepare spells in Wizard spell slots slots that are on both spell lists without obtaining scrolls or spellbooks of them?

For example, resist energy and various animal buffs (cat's grace, etc.) are on each list.  Assuming I'm a able to cast level 2+ Druid and Wizard spells, I didn't have resist energy in a Wizard spellbook I could access, and I wanted to prepare and cast resist energy using Wizard spell slots, how could I officially do so?

Thankee!

Offline Keldar

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Re: Theurge Casting Spells from Other Class's Slots
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2020, 05:35:10 PM »
Hmm, it doesn't explicitly say you need an arcane scroll to learn a spell on the wizard class list.  And you should have Scribe Scroll if you haven't traded it off.  If that feels dodgy, you could take the Southern Magician [RoF] (or Alternate Source Spell [Dra 325]) Feat to take the edge off.  I can't recall the rules for two casters working together to make one item, it may be possible to prepare a spell as a druid to meet the prerequisite to craft the spell as an arcane scroll.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/arcaneSpells.htm#addingSpellstoaWizardsSpellbook

Ring of Theurgy (CArc, 20k) is poorly enough written that it may work.  (Or my reading is just sloppy.)

In general, Dragon 325 is the one with all the theurge stuff, might be something more direct there.

Offline Endarire

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Re: Theurge Casting Spells from Other Class's Slots
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2020, 05:53:47 PM »
I already checked "Dragon" 325 and found nothing specifically for this.

A Ring of Theurgy (Complete Arcane 145) costs 20K and may work, but a Boccob's Blessed Book costs only 12,500G and scribing spells in there for preparation as a Wizard absolutely works.  The Ring of Theurgy is faster on a day-to-day level since it doesn't require filling a spellbook which could take days, weeks, or longer.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2020, 06:23:30 PM by Endarire »

Offline Nifft

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Re: Theurge Casting Spells from Other Class's Slots
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2020, 06:03:00 PM »
From your other thread, your early entry trick is Alternative Spell Source, which allows you to prepare Druid spells in Druid slots as Arcane spells.

I think between that and your PC having both Wizard and Druid levels you would be able to meet both the spirit and letter of the rules in creating Arcane scrolls from your Druid slots (albeit at a caster level cost but whatever).

AFAICT, the only restriction on creating Arcane or Divine scrolls comes from this line in the SRD:
Quote from: SRD
The spell must be of the correct type (arcane or divine). Arcane spellcasters (wizards, sorcerers, and bards) can only use scrolls containing arcane spells, and divine spellcasters (clerics, druids, paladins, and rangers) can only use scrolls containing divine spells. (The type of scroll a character creates is also determined by his or her class.)
(bold added)

Since you have two classes the only restriction seems to not apply to you. That'd be the RAW argument.

From a spirit-of-the-rules argument: When you took Alternative Spell Source you turned Druid into a syzygy of Divine and Arcane casting. "Determined by your class" now means either, since your class can do both. (You also turned Wizard into a syzygy of Arcane and Divine casting, of course.)

Another spirit-of-the-rules argument might be that you can create Arcane scrolls from Druid slots after you take a level of Arcane Hierophant, since that's one class which advances both types of spellcasting. It's now "your class" in a significant way since you built for it and you intend to take all 10 levels, so once you have AH as "your class" then the restriction disappears in a poof of logic.

A third spirit-of-the-rules argument would be: If you were a Wizard with a Druid friend of the appropriate level, you could use your friend's spells to cooperatively create a magic item. Being your own friend shouldn't hinder the possibility of cooperation.


tl;dr - I can show you where the base game's rules stop applying to your PC, but only your DM can tell you what happens after that point.

Offline Endarire

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Re: Theurge Casting Spells from Other Class's Slots
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2020, 05:23:51 PM »
@Nifft
Thankee!