Author Topic: Need help to build a Psionic Gish  (Read 461 times)

Offline Ryshin

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Need help to build a Psionic Gish
« on: May 30, 2020, 01:04:18 PM »
Hi folks, gonna start a psionic themed adventure with group and i'd like to play a psionic gish but not a psichic warrior, a true psion or a ardent with acces to lvl9 powers but a combat oriented one. Sure i can put a couple of psichic warrior, fighter or other classes to gain proficiencies and extra feats or abilities but still i wanna cast lvl9 powers.

Any insight? I'm reading guides but i've never played a psionic character before so any help in creating a good build is really apreciated.

I don't wanna play a subpar character, if i can't create a good build and come up with a versatile character that can be both a good fighter and a top notch lv9 caster i'd rather play a full psion and don't give up on manifester levels.

The last gish i played was a elf 5domain wizard(competition domain for divine power)/4incantatrix(metamagic effect+item familiar+persistent spell)/5spellguard of silverymoon/1ruathar/5abjurant champion, i know it's almost impossibile to recreate something like this with a psionic character since we play without transparency so prc arcane classes are out but still i'd like the next best thing.

Thanks
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Offline Skyrock

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Re: Need help to build a Psionic Gish
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2020, 01:15:32 PM »
The Gish handbook may have some pointers for you: http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=8881.0

Unfortunately pionic classes are not as well endowed with prestige classes that combine good manifesting with martial abilities as the better supported arcane gishes. You should inquire if your DM would greenlight psionic adaptions of PrCs like Eldritch Knight or Abjurant Champion.
Without special favours, Slayer works to get 9/10 manifesting progression, full BAB and a few features.

Offline Garryl

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Re: Need help to build a Psionic Gish
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2020, 01:50:23 PM »
Psionics has some decent support out of the box for gishing. The psychic warrior list is designed for it out of the box, and even the psion list has enough of an overlap with it to make a good showing (and metamorphosis is an even better power than polymorph). The slayer and sanctified mind PrCs are pretty much standard for gishing PrCs: 1 lost ML, but full BaB, some decent class features, and not too difficult entry (BAB +4 is an annoyance they both have, but slayer gives the martial weapon proficiencies that sanctified mind asks for). If I recall correctly, there's also a printed adaptation for the abjurant champion to switch it to psionics, although I don't know if it's a proper, usable variant of the class or just a suggestion WotC printed (adaptations can run the gamut like that). Psion 8/Slayer 9/Sanctified Mind 3 has the gishing standard of BAB 16 and ML 18.

Ardent is a little easier to gish with without effort. Their maximum power level is based on their ML, so the Practiced Manifester feat means they can lose up to 4 manifester levels without much consequence (although missing out on 122 PP and 4 powers known at level 20 is still a pretty significant cost) and can lose up to 7 manifester level while still getting a single 9th-level power.. The chassis itself lends a bit better towards the martial side of things, too, with a higher HD, 3/4 BAB, heavy armor proficiency. You don't get as many power known, but with the variety of mantles and the Substitute Powers ACF, you can cherry pick your selection much more easily. Ardent 6/Slayer 9/Sanctified Mind 5 has BAB 18 and ML 20, with 19 powers from 4 mantles, for example. I'm sure you can do better than that if you look into it. I've also heard discussion about Ardent 15/War Mind 5, which picks up the sweeping strikes ability alongside BAB +16 and ML 19 and about the same number of PP and powers known as the slayer/sanc mind version.

Offline Nanashi

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Re: Need help to build a Psionic Gish
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2020, 05:34:02 PM »
Psicrystal+Vigor+Share Pain greatly boosts staying power. Expansion can make you very, very big in a way magic can't match.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2020, 05:35:46 PM by Nanashi »

Offline KellKheraptis

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Re: Need help to build a Psionic Gish
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2020, 05:57:12 PM »
How about this: http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=6590.msg297809#msg297809

Vanilla build minus the Node is still a 9th level power manifester with native 4 iteratives, and every psionic trick you could ever want.  If your DM is down with a high powered game (or regardless once you're high level), Node away on a demiplane and enjoy unrivaled nova capability.  You are a full powered, full Speed Force using Flash that can exist outside of the time stream.

Offline skydragonknight

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Re: Need help to build a Psionic Gish
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2020, 12:48:18 PM »
Linked Power is great for combat buffing, especially if you have a cheap swift action power.
Hmm.

Offline Ryshin

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Re: Need help to build a Psionic Gish
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2020, 07:21:38 AM »
Thanks guys, I have a lot to process now.
Next question is: feats, powers or combos that boost my dmg to a competitive level?  As an arcane Gish I usually boost it with either the sneak attack route with spellthief dip and unseen seer for advanced learning to get hunter eye or the power attack route with a 2h weapon plus I'm both scenarios the good old arcane strike.
How can I boost the dmg with psionic Gish?
Thanks
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Offline nijineko

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Re: Need help to build a Psionic Gish
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2020, 10:54:03 AM »
Be sure to check the Athas.org books. They are the official 3.5 site for Dark Sun (the original Psionic campaign setting), and they have lots of useful options for psionics.

Offline Ryshin

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Re: Need help to build a Psionic Gish
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2020, 03:35:39 AM »
Powers that let me use int/Wis instead of str to attack and powers similar to wraithstrike?
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Offline Garryl

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Re: Need help to build a Psionic Gish
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2020, 10:00:14 AM »
Telekinetic Thrust lets you use Int make attacks with the objects you throw, and Control Body targeting yourself would let you puppet your own body telekinetically and use Int for attacks (although you might lose most other modifiers, wording unclear) and AC.

Offline Skyrock

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Re: Need help to build a Psionic Gish
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2020, 10:08:16 AM »
We've got a whole handbook for getting bonuses derived from stats: http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=4369
Int/Wis bonuses to attack rolls are locked behind class levels, most notably Factotum, Eternal Blade and Shiba Protector. The first two are limited in how often they can be applied, the latter has nasty entry requirements.

Offline skydragonknight

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Re: Need help to build a Psionic Gish
« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2020, 10:59:31 AM »
There are good psionic monk builds where you can use intuitive attack. but with the +4 str from expansion the gain vs str might not be so great. Just an option depending on your stat assignments.
Hmm.

Offline nijineko

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Re: Need help to build a Psionic Gish
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2020, 09:15:07 AM »
Master of the Unseen Hand is one of the rare prestige classes that can actually be qualified for purely with psionics without any alterations to the prerequisites. It will boost telekinetic combat skills nicely.

Offline KellKheraptis

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Re: Need help to build a Psionic Gish
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2020, 09:11:57 PM »
Control Body on yourself lets you use your Int for attack and damage, as well (the move by wire trick) :)

Offline Ryshin

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Re: Need help to build a Psionic Gish
« Reply #14 on: June 15, 2020, 04:28:26 AM »
Thanks for the advices it's helping a lot now I need your help once more.
Do you know at least one good field control power or a power that incapacitate a foe for rounds/levels that is a general psion power  and it's not a wall? (Damn psion walls sucks compared to the arcane cousins)
Thanks
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Offline Garryl

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Re: Need help to build a Psionic Gish
« Reply #15 on: June 15, 2020, 10:01:51 PM »
For incapacitation, time hop will do the trick. It also has some niche defensive and utility uses and can be augmented for additional targets.

Psionics tends to be more single-target focused than magic, which likes its area effects. That said, energy stun may only technically be an AoE stun (5' radius barely counts and targets get two saves to avoid the stun), but it's a versatile combat power by dint of variable damage types at just 2d6 less than par damage and it has double the normal scaling for its save DC (+1/PP augment instead of the usual +1/2 PP). With a high enough save DC from heavy augmentation and/or electricity damage, two saves to avoid the stun doesn't matter quite as much. And while a 5' radius barely counts as an AoE, it's still enough to plink at swarms (when they come up) and it's the same as every wizard's favorite level 1 crowd control spell from the PHB, grease.

I'm not very familiar with powers outside XPH/the SRD, so there might be more out there worth mentioning. Those were just two that jumped out at me in the first few levels.

Offline nijineko

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Re: Need help to build a Psionic Gish
« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2020, 10:24:34 AM »
There are around 130-ish powers that have an area effect entry, according to the Master Psionics List. (138 total, at least 4 duplicates)

(click to show/hide)

***

The best incapacitation power, in my opinion, is Molecular Bonding. No save, No resist, 10' range, 6' sq. area, and lasts 1 minute per level. Bonding all the joints of an opponent's armor (imobilizing them completely if they are wearing full armor), or bonding their footgear to the floor, or bonding weapons in sheaths, are all given as possible applications. This is a power that begs you to be creative. Only affects non-living objects, however. The kicker is that it affects attended objects without penalty!

Other's from the list that caught my eye:
  • Heavy Earth is a gravity binding power, not too bad against weak-Fort types.
  • Never underestimate the power of Grease, Psionic. Like it's arcane counterpart, it is an reasonably reliable Lose Dex to AC de-buff at low to mid levels. especially against DEX weak and those who don't spend skill points on Balance. And since almost no one actually spends points on Balance, chances are they will be forced to be slowed, and quite possibly knocked prone.
  • Energy Trap can be a useful crowd control as well.
  • Ectoplasmic Cocoon, Mass is a higher level shaper crowd control.
  • Disable is the psionic version of sleep, except that you can augment the number of HD affected and the DC.
  • Demoralize is great versus weak-WILL types.
  • Calm Emotions, Psionic is an interesting de-buff and crowd control versus weak-WILL types - prevents all violent actions for those who fail the save and don't have resistance.

« Last Edit: June 18, 2020, 10:47:54 AM by nijineko »