Author Topic: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread  (Read 14178 times)

Offline 123456789blaaa

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Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
« Reply #20 on: September 03, 2012, 05:08:45 PM »
Other than the need for control shape, afflicted lycanthrope seems better than natural (5/silver DR instead of 10 isn't a big deal). Is there any way to increase your ranks until you can autosucceed on the skill check with minimal investment? autosucceeding 20 is the goal but 25 would be nice too.
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Offline Nanshork

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Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
« Reply #21 on: September 03, 2012, 05:43:53 PM »
Other than the need for control shape, afflicted lycanthrope seems better than natural (5/silver DR instead of 10 isn't a big deal). Is there any way to increase your ranks until you can autosucceed on the skill check with minimal investment? autosucceeding 20 is the goal but 25 would be nice too.

It is just like any other skill, there is no Control Shape specific skill optimization. 

Offline 123456789blaaa

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Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
« Reply #22 on: September 03, 2012, 06:21:44 PM »
Other than the need for control shape, afflicted lycanthrope seems better than natural (5/silver DR instead of 10 isn't a big deal). Is there any way to increase your ranks until you can autosucceed on the skill check with minimal investment? autosucceeding 20 is the goal but 25 would be nice too.

It is just like any other skill, there is no Control Shape specific skill optimization.

Do you think that the investment needed for control shape and 5 less DR outweighes the one less LA from using afflicted instead of natural lycanthropy?
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Offline Nanshork

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Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
« Reply #23 on: September 03, 2012, 06:45:43 PM »
Other than the need for control shape, afflicted lycanthrope seems better than natural (5/silver DR instead of 10 isn't a big deal). Is there any way to increase your ranks until you can autosucceed on the skill check with minimal investment? autosucceeding 20 is the goal but 25 would be nice too.

It is just like any other skill, there is no Control Shape specific skill optimization.

Do you think that the investment needed for control shape and 5 less DR outweighes the one less LA from using afflicted instead of natural lycanthropy?

I prefer natural lycanthropy because reliably hitting a DC 25 skill check can be difficult without shenanigans, but that's my personal opinion.  Afflicted Lycanthropes are probably more optimal just as long as you can Control Shape reliably.

Offline 123456789blaaa

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Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
« Reply #24 on: September 04, 2012, 01:03:48 PM »
You know...tome of battle classes mesh well with lycanthropes because the animal hit dice give you half progression. You may want to put that into your guide.
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Offline Nanshork

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Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
« Reply #25 on: September 04, 2012, 02:49:27 PM »
You know...tome of battle classes mesh well with lycanthropes because the animal hit dice give you half progression. You may want to put that into your guide.

I'm iffy on this one.  I see that as obvious, but I know ToB and have obviously spent too much time thinking about these guys.

I'd like some input from other people who read this.  Thoughts?  Anything besides ToB that would work well with the LA and animal HD?

Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
« Reply #26 on: September 04, 2012, 04:06:56 PM »
I'm iffy on this one.  I see that as obvious, but I know ToB and have obviously spent too much time thinking about these guys.

I'd like some input from other people who read this.  Thoughts?  Anything besides ToB that would work well with the LA and animal HD?
It is likely not obvious for many people.

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Offline 123456789blaaa

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Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
« Reply #27 on: September 04, 2012, 04:57:29 PM »
As snakeman830 said on the previous page, a character that is wildshaped can still use alternate form so wildshape ranger ( druid would be a waste of potential) could be a nice choice.
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Offline Nanshork

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Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
« Reply #28 on: September 04, 2012, 07:49:31 PM »
Alright, a section about base classes has been created.   :)

Offline gorfnab

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Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
« Reply #29 on: September 05, 2012, 11:37:45 PM »
Just found this over on GitP.

Offline Nanshork

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Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
« Reply #30 on: September 06, 2012, 10:11:19 AM »
Just found this over on GitP.

He made a thread over here too, it is linked in the top section of the guide itself.   :p

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Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
« Reply #31 on: September 06, 2012, 06:31:57 PM »
Do werecreatures whose animals have extra limbs (like octopusses), get those extra limbs in hybrid form?
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Offline EjoThims

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Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
« Reply #32 on: September 06, 2012, 07:04:55 PM »
Do werecreatures whose animals have extra limbs (like octopusses), get those extra limbs in hybrid form?

The rules do not mention either way how the physical form of the hybrid form is determined, only that it gains two claws and a bite (regardless of the natural attacks possessed by the animal).

So it's completely up in the air, as form is never actually defined in the DnD rules...

Fusion suffers this same dilemma.  :twitch

Offline Nanshork

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Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
« Reply #33 on: September 06, 2012, 07:11:33 PM »
Pretty much.  A were-octopus has two claw and one bite attack. 

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Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
« Reply #34 on: September 07, 2012, 02:21:19 PM »
Why do you say in the guide that combat should be preformed in hybrid form? The only advantages I see are the ability to wield weapons (which can be replicated in animal form with a mouthpick weapon), cheaper armor, and not having to take surrogate spellcasting for if you want to cast spells.  Plus you are giving up all the tasty special abilties of the animal unless you take 5 levels of a campaign setting specific Prc.
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Offline EjoThims

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Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
« Reply #35 on: September 07, 2012, 06:40:31 PM »
Why do you say in the guide that combat should be preformed in hybrid form? The only advantages I see are the ability to wield weapons (which can be replicated in animal form with a mouthpick weapon), cheaper armor, and not having to take surrogate spellcasting for if you want to cast spells.

Those would be the reasons...

Plus you are giving up all the tasty special abilties of the animal unless you take 5 levels of a campaign setting specific Prc.

This is the one drawback, but most builds will benefit more from the above than from their animal abilities.

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Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
« Reply #36 on: September 07, 2012, 06:46:05 PM »
Why do you say in the guide that combat should be preformed in hybrid form? The only advantages I see are the ability to wield weapons (which can be replicated in animal form with a mouthpick weapon), cheaper armor, and not having to take surrogate spellcasting for if you want to cast spells.

Those would be the reasons...

Plus you are giving up all the tasty special abilties of the animal unless you take 5 levels of a campaign setting specific Prc.

This is the one drawback, but most builds will benefit more from the above than from their animal abilities.

Most lycanthrope builds won't cast spells though (and if they do than one feat isn't much) and it's totally possible to make a natural attack build that equal or almost equal to a weapon using build. That leaves cheaper armor...

I acknowledge that hybrid form is useful but when I read the guide when I was just getting into dnd I got the impression that hybrid form was the only form that mattered. Perhaps Nanshork could put in a little note comparing the two forms?
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Offline EjoThims

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Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
« Reply #37 on: September 07, 2012, 06:55:26 PM »
A comparison would be useful, yes, but as many animals have more attacks in Hybrid form than animal, even natural attack builds often will be better in Hybrid form.

it also makes most gear (not just armor) more convenient, and leaves open the possibility of NA+weapon builds.

Offline Nanshork

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Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
« Reply #38 on: September 07, 2012, 07:49:35 PM »
I side with Ejo on this.  Gear, natural attacks + weapon, and the fact that hybrid is the larger of the two forms (most of the time you'll want a small form because they have less animal HD).

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Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
« Reply #39 on: September 07, 2012, 09:52:45 PM »
I side with Ejo on this.  Gear, natural attacks + weapon, and the fact that hybrid is the larger of the two forms (most of the time you'll want a small form because they have less animal HD).

Whoops, forgot about the claws and bite hybrid form gives you as well as the (sometimes) size increase.

When looking at all the advantages I'll have to concede the point.

EDIT: How do fractional HD (rat and such) work with the lycanthrope template?
« Last Edit: September 09, 2012, 03:25:25 PM by 123456789blaaa »
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