Author Topic: The Complete Cost Reduction Handbook - Discussion Thread  (Read 17379 times)

Offline Bastian

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The Complete Cost Reduction Handbook - Discussion Thread
« on: December 11, 2011, 04:36:17 PM »
This is a thread for discussing the The Complete Cost Reduction Handbook. If you see anything that you want to comment on please reply here, or in the original thread if able.

Offline kitep

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Re: The Complete Cost Reduction Handbook - Discussion Thread
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2012, 09:48:09 PM »
Another item that lets you trade gold for a crafting feat:

Forge of Thautam: only usable by dwarves, or with Use Magic Device DC 25 check to Emulate a Race; grants user Craft Magic Arms and Armor feat 15,000gp  (Races of Stone)


Offline sirpercival

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Re: The Complete Cost Reduction Handbook - Discussion Thread
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2012, 09:51:48 PM »
So, I don't know if you're including anything like builds, but my favorite cost-reduction abuse is to play a Binder 5/Ur-Priest 2/Divine-adapted Anima Mage X.  Bind Astaroth for your item creation feats, and then use the Ur-Priest's K:R to get Dark Craft gold & XP for free.  Then pump divine spells into items.

The most abuse I got out of this was to make a Thrallherd who had one of those as a Thrall.... and an endless supply of believers to sacrifice.
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Offline sreservoir

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Re: The Complete Cost Reduction Handbook - Discussion Thread
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2012, 09:30:56 PM »
for scrolls, the caster's shield is effectively (though not quite) a -50% to gp cost.

Offline Nytemare3701

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Re: The Complete Cost Reduction Handbook - Discussion Thread
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2012, 05:12:58 AM »
Dunno if this counts, but there are a whole host of spells that do the same effects as +1 enhancements, and cost less to get as a continual item than getting a +1 at later levels.
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Offline Endarire

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Re: The Complete Cost Reduction Handbook - Discussion Thread
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2012, 10:17:20 PM »
It's the Tower of Life, not Light.  Minor quibble.

Further proof that Faerun favors Elves, Wizards, and Elf Wizards.

Offline Bastian

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Re: The Complete Cost Reduction Handbook - Discussion Thread
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2012, 03:09:29 PM »
for scrolls, the caster's shield is effectively (though not quite) a -50% to gp cost.
Added (and have added you to the "Thanks to" section).
Dunno if this counts, but there are a whole host of spells that do the same effects as +1 enhancements, and cost less to get as a continual item than getting a +1 at later levels.
The pricing guidelines for making items are just that guidelines, not rules and actually make note that things should be priced similar to items already available so they can't really be included. Sorry.
It's the Tower of Life, not Light.  Minor quibble.

Further proof that Faerun favors Elves, Wizards, and Elf Wizards.
Fixed (and I have added you to the "Thanks to" section).
« Last Edit: April 27, 2012, 02:36:54 PM by Bastian »

Offline Cagemarrow

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Re: The Complete Cost Reduction Handbook - Discussion Thread
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2012, 11:19:43 AM »
Are you assuming that Magical Artisan from Forgotten Realms can only be applied on an item once? Based on my reading of it the benefit is an unnamed bonus that can be applied to any magic item creation feat, so should be able to stack if applied to all of the Eberron magical artisan feats, elemental binding, as well as the general feat that allows you to use your stat to set the items save.

Takes a lot of feats for this with diminishing returns after the first few though. I like using them with the Eberron feats.

Offline Bastian

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Re: The Complete Cost Reduction Handbook - Discussion Thread
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2012, 10:16:48 AM »
Are you assuming that Magical Artisan from Forgotten Realms can only be applied on an item once? Based on my reading of it the benefit is an unnamed bonus that can be applied to any magic item creation feat, so should be able to stack if applied to all of the Eberron magical artisan feats, elemental binding, as well as the general feat that allows you to use your stat to set the items save.

Takes a lot of feats for this with diminishing returns after the first few though. I like using them with the Eberron feats.
I know it can be used multiple times do to the stupidity of that stacking rules not covering feats, I just haven't found a way to incorporate it into the body of the article so currently it is in the to-be-incorporated section.

Edit: Added, though it is kind of awkwardly inserted right now.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2012, 10:34:01 AM by Bastian »

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: The Complete Cost Reduction Handbook - Discussion Thread
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2012, 05:41:04 PM »
iirc - the Quickstart Artificer eventually focused on this thread.
The basic dirty Arty takes just these reducers ... and loves it.

Psi Arty waits until it gets PsyRef going, and then does this anyway.

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Offline Lycanthromancer

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Re: The Complete Cost Reduction Handbook - Discussion Thread
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2012, 05:19:59 PM »
In the A&EG there's the hammer of the magesmith, which reduces the base cost of any weapon by 5%. Note that shields count as weapons since you can bash with them.

The Shield Dwarf Warder feat from Races of Faerun reduces the cost of magic arms and armor by a further 5%.

In Hyperconscious (written by Bruce Cordell, author of the XPH and the good parts of CPsi) there's the Craft Dreamgift feat, which allows you to make dreamstained items. If you don't mind taking Con damage every day and suffering nightmares every night, you can knock down the price of an item by 3/4, though it also knocks the caster level of the item down by half, making dispels a potential problem.

Words of Creation (from the BoED) boosts the caster level of items by +1 for free, which can be a huge reduction in cost for some high level items. See the psychoactive skin of proteus, for example.

Offline Bastian

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Re: The Complete Cost Reduction Handbook - Discussion Thread
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2012, 02:11:26 PM »
In the A&EG there's the hammer of the magesmith, which reduces the base cost of any weapon by 5%. Note that shields count as weapons since you can bash with them.
That's already in the guide except the bit about shields which I added (Nice idea).
Quote
The Shield Dwarf Warder feat from Races of Faerun reduces the cost of magic arms and armor by a further 5%.
Nice find (though I just looked it up and its magic shielsd and armor, not arms and armor). Added.
Quote
In Hyperconscious (written by Bruce Cordell, author of the XPH and the good parts of CPsi) there's the Craft Dreamgift feat, which allows you to make dreamstained items. If you don't mind taking Con damage every day and suffering nightmares every night, you can knock down the price of an item by 3/4, though it also knocks the caster level of the item down by half, making dispels a potential problem.
Sorry, but I'm not going to be adding third party material (no matter how well written that 3rd party material is).
Quote
Words of Creation (from the BoED) boosts the caster level of items by +1 for free, which can be a huge reduction in cost for some high level items. See the psychoactive skin of proteus, for example.
Already on the list. Though strangely enough it is in the requirements section even though it doesn't help meeting requirements, so I've moved it to gold (although technically it should have its own section). Thanks for pointing it out.

Edit: And I have added you to the "Thanks to" section.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2012, 02:33:53 PM by Bastian »

Offline Lycanthromancer

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Re: The Complete Cost Reduction Handbook - Discussion Thread
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2012, 04:24:08 PM »
Also, anything that affects weapons, armors, and shields should reduce the costs of other things shunted onto them, such as magical traps. A touch-based automatic-reset trap of Chained Dispel Magic on the blade of a longsword, or a Mass Heal trap on the hilt counts as part of a weapon, so weapon-based reductions would of course reduce the cost. Could save a bundle if you swing it right. (Heh.)

Offline Bastian

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Re: The Complete Cost Reduction Handbook - Discussion Thread
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2012, 09:16:09 PM »
Also, anything that affects weapons, armors, and shields should reduce the costs of other things shunted onto them, such as magical traps. A touch-based automatic-reset trap of Chained Dispel Magic on the blade of a longsword, or a Mass Heal trap on the hilt counts as part of a weapon, so weapon-based reductions would of course reduce the cost. Could save a bundle if you swing it right. (Heh.)
Added, though I made a note that it really depends on the leniency of the DM.

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: The Complete Cost Reduction Handbook - Discussion Thread
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2012, 05:31:53 PM »
Is there anything resembling a standard Crafter build ?

Like not the Quickstart Arty, but rather
an Arcane and/or Divine full caster X ??

To get all those feats, requires something
like the 504 Feats True Dilettante build. 
But a couple of the good abilities are class
based, that won't fit with Feats + Full casting.

 :???
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Offline sirpercival

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Re: The Complete Cost Reduction Handbook - Discussion Thread
« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2012, 05:39:31 PM »
Yes, the standard caster crafter build is Binder 5/Ur-Priest 2/Anima Mage 10.  9th-level cleric spells (including Miracle) and any crafting feat you want via Astaroth, plus the Knowledge: Religion and evil alignment you need to abuse Dark Craft gp and xp.
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Offline Endarire

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Re: The Complete Cost Reduction Handbook - Discussion Thread
« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2012, 02:58:07 AM »
How does that Binder/Ur-Priest/Anima Mage get L9 Cleric spells?

Offline sirpercival

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Re: The Complete Cost Reduction Handbook - Discussion Thread
« Reply #17 on: May 25, 2012, 08:00:06 AM »
Ur Priest?  This is using the Divine-Adapted Anima Mage (I should have specified).
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Offline Jackinthegreen

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Re: The Complete Cost Reduction Handbook - Discussion Thread
« Reply #18 on: June 01, 2012, 06:09:54 PM »
If a certain weapon material has a price per pound (like Riverine) then making a smaller version of it and using the Sizing enhancement from MiC might save some money for larger characters.  Combine it with Morphing for even more amusement.

Offline Endarire

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Re: The Complete Cost Reduction Handbook - Discussion Thread
« Reply #19 on: June 04, 2012, 04:11:29 AM »
By "Elemental Whale," I think you mean an Elsewhale, a Gargantuan Elemental from Planar Handbook 117.  (All the other Colossal candidate creatures I know of have too many HD even for greater planar binding!  You'd need to use gate!)  If you could somehow customize an Elsewhale to give it Hidden Talent: expansion and force it to use this before binding, you'd not need gate.

At this point it's DM fiat if you can do this.