Author Topic: Creating An Up-To-Date List of Pun-Pun's Best Abilities and (Nigh-)Infinities  (Read 75208 times)

Offline ariasderros

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Right.  What is the Omniscificer trick?  And Pain Master?  The Pain Master one is the infinite damage loop+delay death+drown yourself, right?

Omnificer and Pain Mastery is a feat in Savage Species (p37).

It makes your stats increase to an un-quantifiable extent instantaneously. Infinite.

(Its starts with just Str, but Bellflower lets you share the love)
« Last Edit: January 26, 2012, 10:21:52 PM by ariasderros »
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Offline dman11235

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Thank you!  I knew it was this, I just couldn't remember or find it!
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Offline ariasderros

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On a related note... the methods of becoming immune to damage would negate the omniscificer trick. So Singular Enemy, Zodar Invulnerability and Tarasque's Regeneration. Singular Enemy could be made to work if the infinite damage comes from your enemy.

Hmm... you're receiving infinite damage as a constant effect. Jovoc Aura? Anything, or any part of anything, that isn't a tanari gets auto-pwnd.
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Offline Bastian

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On a related note... the methods of becoming immune to damage would negate the omniscificer trick. So Singular Enemy, Zodar Invulnerability and Tarasque's Regeneration. Singular Enemy could be made to work if the infinite damage comes from your enemy.

Hmm... you're receiving infinite damage as a constant effect. Jovoc Aura? Anything, or any part of anything, that isn't a tanari gets auto-pwnd.
Firstly, you could simply do the omniscificer trick before giving yourself Singular Enemy. Secondly, as the opening post already states, Singular Enemy can be pointed at one of Pun-Pun's other bodies do to Amalgam.

Nice find on the Jovoc's Aura of Retribution. While I wouldn't think Pun-Pun would want it active all the time since it is indiscriminate, being able to deal damage to people immune to damage is a really nice trick.

Offline sirpercival

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You know... Pun-Pun doesn't even have to be a kobold.  He could be a Rilkan or Skarn, too -- they're Scaled Ones.  :)
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Offline dman11235

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Yes, but it's better this way.  The original reason Pun-Pun was a kobold was because it was Khan's attempt at proving that they can be good, for a kobold optimization thread.  Pun-Pun doesn't even need to be a scaled one, with the 1st level trick for gaining the abilities, iirc.
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Offline AyeGill

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It's worth mentioning the Infinity is an Aleph Zero.
I don't have near enough High Math mojo,
to describe what Aleph One is or why it's different
from Aleph Zero. Anyone trying to get that number
via the D&D rule set, is up against not just doing it,
but also explaining what it is.
Remains quite a cookie, for both Pun-pun lovers and haters.
Cantor's Diagonal Argument is the best explanation I've seen for the difference between countable(aleph zero) and uncountable(aleph one) infinities. Here's my take on it.

First, imagine an infinitely long sequence, where each element is either 1 or 0. One such sequence could be 111111..., another 000000..., another 10101010..., and so on. Now, imagine that we take all of these sequences, and arrange them into a list. It might look something like this:

1: 111111111....
2: 000000000....
3: 101010101....
4: 010101010....
5: 100100100....
6: 011011011....
...

Thus, we associate each natural number with one such possible sequence. Now, one might think that, since there are infinitely many natural numbers, once we had associated every natural number with a sequence, there would be no more sequences. One would be wrong. Consider the sequence S, defined thus: the nth element in S is 0 if the nth element of the nth sequence is 1, and 1 otherwise. This sequence is clearly not anywhere in the list - it is by its very nature different from every sequence in the list. We can append this specific sequence to the list, but from the same definition, another sequence will arise which does not fit in the list. As long as every sequence on the list can be associated with a natural number, there will be sequences not on the list. Therefore, the set which contains all the possible sequences must have a larger cardinality than the set of all natural numbers, or, in layman's terms, there must be more possible sequences than natural numbers.

Offline Kremti

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Yes, but it's better this way.  The original reason Pun-Pun was a kobold was because it was Khan's attempt at proving that they can be good, for a kobold optimization thread.  Pun-Pun doesn't even need to be a scaled one, with the 1st level trick for gaining the abilities, iirc.
Heresy!  Pun-Pun has always been, is and shall always be a kobold!    :shakefist
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Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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AyeGill ... Thanks. Now just don't expect to quiz me on the material anytime soon.  ;)



The kobold part is for the specific thingy of Scaled One.
And that kobolds suck.
Incentive To Play A Kobold ... has a slightly naive assumption to it,
that doesn't really include an understanding of where Pun-pun was gonna go.
We were all so young and innocent back then.
 :bigeyes  :smirk


It should be possible to play a Kobold that a Sarrukh has tampered with,
that would also keep up with the Full Casters despite not being one
Should.
(I know it's heresy)
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Offline Bastian

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Does anyone know if manifester level/caster level can be made infinite? If not, what is the best method to get NI manifester level/caster level?

Offline sirpercival

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I think you mean "Teleport through Time" and not "Travel through Time".
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Offline Bastian

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I think you mean "Teleport through Time" and not "Travel through Time".
Nice catch. Thank you.

Offline ariasderros

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Does anyone know if manifester level/caster level can be made infinite? If not, what is the best method to get NI manifester level/caster level?

Well, for CL, the only thing that doesn't increase your CL by a set amount is Consumptive Field (and the Greater version). So the whole "Looped Consumptive Field" trick may work for this (the greater version can be fed by Summon Monster 1).
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Offline Halinn

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Does anyone know if manifester level/caster level can be made infinite? If not, what is the best method to get NI manifester level/caster level?

Well, for CL, the only thing that doesn't increase your CL by a set amount is Consumptive Field (and the Greater version). So the whole "Looped Consumptive Field" trick may work for this (the greater version can be fed by Summon Monster 1).
So NI caster level by getting NI actions, then alternatively casting SM3 (for faster growth) and Altering Reality to make it permanent (to stack up tons), then GCF, then repeat?

Offline Bastian

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Does anyone know if manifester level/caster level can be made infinite? If not, what is the best method to get NI manifester level/caster level?

Well, for CL, the only thing that doesn't increase your CL by a set amount is Consumptive Field (and the Greater version). So the whole "Looped Consumptive Field" trick may work for this (the greater version can be fed by Summon Monster 1).
Added.

Offline Halinn

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If you care to be more explicit about it, NI HD/levels means NI feats and skill levels.

Offline Bastian

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Does anyone agree with my interpretation that the Paragon Visionary epic feat gives you true seeing as far as you can see? Or by "as true seeing" is it also referring to the range?

Offline AyeGill

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I'd say as far as you can see. But i agree it's up for debate

Offline dman11235

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Yeah, it's as far as you can see.  The "as true seeing" isn't refering to range (nothing does), so it's obviously just using that as a method of clarifying how you see through illusions.  Intention is as far as you can see.
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Offline grautry

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I'd add Aumvor's Fragmented Phylactery(CoRuin 37) to Won't stay dead if killed part. It allows for Pun-Pun to effectively have NI infinite number of phylacteries.

Depending on how you read this, stealing Primus' Telepathy might allow for Pun-Pun to have Telepathy with truly infinite range(or else Telepathy with infinite range while on Mechanus), but this is subject to interpretation, 3.0 material and definitely shaky RAW.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2012, 11:50:32 PM by grautry »