Author Topic: Creating An Up-To-Date List of Pun-Pun's Best Abilities and (Nigh-)Infinities  (Read 73265 times)

Offline zugschef

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Ah, well, Pun-Pun gets the best of everything!

Literally.
no he doesn't. literally.

Offline Amechra

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Fine, figuratively, then.
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Offline ariasderros

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You could just grab vecna-blooded Cloak of Mystery supernatural ability as soon as you get Manipulate Form. Unless someone catches you in the process, you are completely forgotten and immune to divination (no risk of losing the opposed caster check).

VB is already accounted for. But if the planet that you live on is one that he made via Major Creation castings, you could still use Detect Magic to know that your planet is just a Conjuration spell creation. This is because VB protects you from divination, but not necessarily your spell effects if they are independent of you, such as the aforementioned planet.

Beat the CL check? Pun-Pun has a NI Caster Level, and a True Infinite Effective Caster Level. It would be the Effective CL that you'd go by for this. So, in order to beat the check, you'd need an Infinite CL yourself. Somehow, I doubt that Pun-Pun would allow that.
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Offline Forumowicz

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You could just grab vecna-blooded Cloak of Mystery supernatural ability as soon as you get Manipulate Form. Unless someone catches you in the process, you are completely forgotten and immune to divination (no risk of losing the opposed caster check).

VB is already accounted for. But if the planet that you live on is one that he made via Major Creation castings, you could still use Detect Magic to know that your planet is just a Conjuration spell creation. This is because VB protects you from divination, but not necessarily your spell effects if they are independent of you, such as the aforementioned planet.

Beat the CL check? Pun-Pun has a NI Caster Level, and a True Infinite Effective Caster Level. It would be the Effective CL that you'd go by for this. So, in order to beat the check, you'd need an Infinite CL yourself. Somehow, I doubt that Pun-Pun would allow that.
That makes sense. I misunderstood the purpose and thought that it is a trick used to avoid being prevented from achieving Pun-Pun-hood. In that case it is an awesome feat indeed.

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Heh ... Pun-pun spams Genesis all across the planes.
No one's the wiser.
Maybe Pun-pun created all the planes?
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Offline Bastian

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Is there anyway to extend the Insidious Magic trick to all of Evocation and Transmutation? I prefer not to use Dragonlance material unless I have to.

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Garryl's post 236, should move lots of Evoc over.
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Offline Bastian

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Garryl's post 236, should move lots of Evoc over.
I know but I was looking for something a little more encompassing or I might have to just go with the Dragonlance ability.

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Idea:

Linked Power metapsi turns the 2nd power into a metapsi cost.
This would be a near T.O.-ish interpretation, but the 1st power
can set what kind of school/discipline it belongs to, and then
consider the 2nd power just a metapsi.  Cheesy yes?

We already almost do this, with the Erudite as a way around
it's Unique Powers limit.  There it's just a metapsi cost, and there
isn't any worry about what else might be going on.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2013, 06:30:06 PM by awaken_D_M_golem »
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Offline Bastian

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Re: Creating An Up-To-Date List of Pun-Pun's Best Abilities and (Nigh-)Infinities
« Reply #249 on: February 10, 2014, 01:43:59 PM »
Does anyone know if there are any "feats that enhance movement and defense" that can be taken multiple times that would allow us to abuse the Legacy Champion/alternate Uncanny Trickster loop?

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Creating An Up-To-Date List of Pun-Pun's Best Abilities and (Nigh-)Infinities
« Reply #250 on: February 11, 2014, 06:20:34 PM »
Oh you mean, since it's a Loop instead of the usual A.H. goes to Inf.


Epic srd has these loop-ables:
Armor Skin +1 NA
Blinding Speed +5 minutes of Haste, technically (ex)
Damage Reduction +3/-
Energy Resistance +10 to one of acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic
Epic Inspiration +1 to Competence Dodge Morale via Bardic Music
Epic Skill Focus +10 to one skill (linear tho) , probably already has these
Epic Toughness +30 hp
Extend Life Span +1/2 to age category, can be rationalized to work
Fast Healing +3
Great Stat X +1 to one of 6, can easily be rationalized to work
Group Inspiration ... not sure about this one
Improved Dark Vision doubles
Improved Favorite Enemy +1 to Bluff (?), Listen, Sense Motive, Spot, and Survival 
Improved Low Light Vision doubles
Improved Spell Resistance +2
Ranged Inspiration ... not sure about this one

Who'd be listening to Pun-pun one handed clapping?


Psi
Open Minded +5 skill ranks, to fill up all those that fit this definition
Psionic Talent (+1*X)+2 ppoints so long as rationalized

Deities
Extra Music +1 use per day, rationalized

Core
Extra Turning +4 uses per day
Spell Mastery +Int for easy bake, rationalized
Toughness +3hp (snore)


google site:dndtools.eu this feat can be taken multiple times
... gets 493 results.  Even with the inconsistent wordings.


« Last Edit: February 12, 2014, 04:28:26 PM by awaken_D_M_golem »
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Offline nijineko

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so. possibly silly questions.

doesn't the whole pun-pun premise rest upon being able to make the DC check for knowing about the sarrukh (or however that's spelled)?

and are not things, by definition, which are not known to the character infinite dc, or simply disallowed a check by the DM?

which would mean that regardless of how high a dc check one couuld make, if the character has never been exposed to the knowledge, they simply can't know it and don't even get a check in the first place?



ergo... pun-pun is impossible from the beginning?



unless, of course, one manages to find a tome with handy description... or is that part of the premise?
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Offline SorO_Lost

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Theoretical (adj): based on or calculated through theory rather than experience or practice.
synonyms: hypothetical, abstract, conjectural, academic, suppositional, speculative, notional, postulatory, what-if, assumed, presumed, untested, unproven, unsubstantiated.

There really isn't any TO that works on the table top because otherwise it wouldn't be TO.
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Offline phaedrusxy

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so. possibly silly questions.

doesn't the whole pun-pun premise rest upon being able to make the DC check for knowing about the sarrukh (or however that's spelled)?

and are not things, by definition, which are not known to the character infinite dc, or simply disallowed a check by the DM?

which would mean that regardless of how high a dc check one couuld make, if the character has never been exposed to the knowledge, they simply can't know it and don't even get a check in the first place?



ergo... pun-pun is impossible from the beginning?
The same could be said about any knowledge check. The entire point of the check is to see if the PC knows it or not. If the DM determines beforehand that the PC does NOT know that information, no matter how good their check, then the DC is basically infinite. IF there is a chance at all that the PC might have picked up that information, then the DM sets an appropriate DC.
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Offline nijineko

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i see.

i was just wondering because i saw a lot of phraseology to the effect of: well the dc is only such-an-so, so my character obviously knows that.

i had the impression that some were assuming that if they could make the listed dc, their character somehow automatically knew that without actually doing anything to learn it in the first place.

thought i'd ask here to get the inside angle.


thanks for the explanations.
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Offline EjoThims

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i had the impression that some were assuming that if they could make the listed dc, their character somehow automatically knew that without actually doing anything to learn it in the first place.

That is, technically, how it works before DM fiat comes in to play.

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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obscure tangent to that ... if you remember Tsuyo's Shaedling.
They aren't trained in Know(anything), so the top DC is 10.
But that's only on the first iteration.
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