Author Topic: Creating An Up-To-Date List of Pun-Pun's Best Abilities and (Nigh-)Infinities  (Read 75206 times)

Offline Bauglir

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Wait, why do you have to specify each one? I mean, in practice, you're going to want to in order to actually accomplish anything, but couldn't you just declare that you will spend every available action casting the everloving shit out of meteor swarm on the same area? Or even a repetitive sequence whose details never change?

Offline dman11235

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Wouldn't that also allow for infinite xp?  Cause, infinite actions...and if it's an action that grants xp......
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Offline Bastian

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Wait, why do you have to specify each one? I mean, in practice, you're going to want to in order to actually accomplish anything, but couldn't you just declare that you will spend every available action casting the everloving shit out of meteor swarm on the same area? Or even a repetitive sequence whose details never change?
Yes, you have to actually specify each one. You can't just declare that you want to take an infinite number of actions, you actually have to take each action one at a time (even if you fully intend to keep taking actions forever) and thus can never reach an infinite number.

Offline Bauglir

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Okay, allow me to cut out the excess verbiage.

Why?


Oh, wait it's because you only ever have one at a time, and it's only taking one that triggers the next. And we're disallowing assigning routine instructions because there's no actual mechanic for that, and it's something that only exists on a metagame level?
« Last Edit: February 10, 2012, 02:31:53 AM by Bauglir »

Offline Bastian

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Okay, allow me to cut out the excess verbiage.

Why?


Oh, wait it's because you only ever have one at a time, and it's only taking one that triggers the next. And we're disallowing assigning routine instructions because there's no actual mechanic for that, and it's something that only exists on a metagame level?
Yep.

Offline Garryl

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I think Casual Disconcern for the Action Economy can be a true infinity. Unaugmented, Synchronicity still needs to have its action specified (I think). If the action is "manifest a Synchro-linked-Synchro, whose readied action is the same as this one," then choice is removed from the matter and the loop cannot be stopped.

Offline Bastian

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I think Casual Disconcern for the Action Economy can be a true infinity. Unaugmented, Synchronicity still needs to have its action specified (I think). If the action is "manifest a Synchro-linked-Synchro, whose readied action is the same as this one," then choice is removed from the matter and the loop cannot be stopped.
Readied actions do not go off automatically, one must choose to take a readied action and can only make that choice if the conditions specified for the readied action are met.  Thus only a finite number of actions can be reached.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2012, 02:27:31 PM by Bastian »

Offline Garryl

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Huh. I'd always misread it as having to take the readied action once it was readied, not being optional. Thanks.

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Despite only having 1 Contingency at a time,
each single one Contingency could be snagged
from the various infinite time past(s) and futures.
I wonder what sort of wording is necessary here.
Obviously a true infinity Knowledge check solves this in-game.

Same goes for the wordings of Sychronicitys.
Infinity Knowledge has the right wording.
Pick a trigger action ... so long as it happens
some where and some time, you could yank it
out of "that""there""then" into this round here now.

Hmm...so the universes have infinite mass as well?  That solves that problem!  Now the question becomes whether or not he has every creature as a follower or not.  I'm not sure how one would even BEGIN to solve that problem, so any math people want to take a crack at it?  Though, where does it discuss this?  MotP?

Assuming that there are an infinite amount of potential followers at each level, 1-20, it is undefined whether or not every one of them is a follower. (+∞) - (-∞) = +∞, (-∞) + (-∞) = -∞, but (+∞) - (+∞) and (-∞) + (+∞) are both undefined.

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Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Wait, so ... every Commoner might be a secret follower of Pun-pun ?

The whole Thor thing is just to impress the local hot shots.
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Offline AyeGill

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Hmm...so the universes have infinite mass as well?  That solves that problem!  Now the question becomes whether or not he has every creature as a follower or not.  I'm not sure how one would even BEGIN to solve that problem, so any math people want to take a crack at it?  Though, where does it discuss this?  MotP?

Assuming that there are an infinite amount of potential followers at each level, 1-20, it is undefined whether or not every one of them is a follower. (+∞) - (-∞) = +∞, (-∞) + (-∞) = -∞, but (+∞) - (+∞) and (-∞) + (+∞) are both undefined.

My kitty avatar is confused again ...
:D

If I'm getting what he's saying, as long as an infinite amount of potential followers(people) exist in the universe, even if we do have infinite followers, there could still be people who are not our followers.

If p is the number of people/potential followers in the universe, and f is the number of followers we have.
p = ∞ and f = ∞, obviously
but p = f+∞ can still be true. So there might still be an infinite amount of people who are not our followers.
How does this work? Make every second person in the universe a follower. We now have an infinite amount of followers, but there's an equal amount of people who are not our followers.

Offline Halinn

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Hell, even every millionth, billionth or whatever-nth person could be a follower, and that would satisfy an infinite amount of followers. Infinities are f'd up.

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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New problem with infinite creatures: where are they?  I mean, these rules don't make the universe infinitely big......

Pun-Pun breaks physics once more!

Now remember my young apprentice,
it only hurts Pun-pun when you practice
... not when you actually hit something.
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Offline AyeGill

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Hell, even every millionth, billionth or whatever-nth person could be a follower, and that would satisfy an infinite amount of followers. Infinities are f'd up.

Cantor arguably went mad because of his intense study into their nature(note: he did go mad, but you can debate whether his area of study was the reason)

Offline Halinn

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As far as I understand the BoVD sacrifice mechanics, an infinite knowledge check means that you can get infinite dark crafting gold/xp.

Offline Bastian

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As far as I understand the BoVD sacrifice mechanics, an infinite knowledge check means that you can get infinite dark crafting gold/xp.
The only thing I can see that might make it not work is the fact that the DC has to be set ahead of time and I'm not sure one can make it infinity since there is no set equal mechanic. I'll have to look into it further.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2012, 04:09:37 PM by Bastian »

Offline Halinn

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At the very least, it's NI gold that can only be used for crafting.

Offline ariasderros

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At the very least, it's NI gold that can only be used for crafting.

He already has NI item crafting. From his divine ranks. And it's instant.
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Offline Halinn

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At the very least, it's NI gold that can only be used for crafting.

He already has NI item crafting. From his divine ranks. And it's instant.
Full round action from what I can tell, and with a rest period that can be quite long. This will at least allow Pun-Pun to work on another item while in the rest period from Divine Creation

Offline Bastian

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So I've looked into it further, it can indeed only be a finite amount (since infinity isn't really a number, it's only treated as such in specific circumstances). I have thus added it to the nigh-infinite category.

Also for those who might not have noticed before, I found the Living Ship which has a speed dependent on the Intelligence score of its pilot and have thus added speed to the Infinite category.