Author Topic: Arsenic & Old Lace: The Poison Handbook Discussion  (Read 5337 times)

Offline Libertad

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3489
    • View Profile
    • My Fantasy and Gaming Blog
« Last Edit: January 12, 2012, 08:24:46 PM by Libertad »

Offline akalsaris

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • **
  • Posts: 71
  • I put the laughter in manslaughter!
    • View Profile
Re: Arsenic & Old Lace: The Poison Handbook Discussion
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2012, 09:40:14 PM »
Thanks for a bunch for porting this over Libertad! It looks quite spiffy in its new location.  :)

Is it ever possible to share ownership of a handbook? I'm not sure when I'll ever get around to it, but I'd like to add page numbers for all the poisons at some point.

Offline Libertad

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3489
    • View Profile
    • My Fantasy and Gaming Blog
Re: Arsenic & Old Lace: The Poison Handbook Discussion
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2012, 10:10:02 PM »
You're welcome.  The handbook's size was intimidating at first, but it was so full of good ideas that it had to be preserved here.

I do not know about joint ownership, but I asked Prime32 and veekie about this (it would be a good idea if users could do a collaboration handbook).  I believe that editing privileges transfers over to the original author should they desire.  I think that this is the best option: I'm just the porter!

Offline veekie

  • Spinner of Fortunes
  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 5423
  • Chaos Dice
    • View Profile
Re: Arsenic & Old Lace: The Poison Handbook Discussion
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2012, 11:33:56 AM »
It is not possible for a post to be attributed to two posters. Collaboratives would need one person to update the top post, possibly while the discussion thread contains the temporary edits.
Everything is edible. Just that there are things only edible once per lifetime.
It's a god-eat-god world.

Procrastination is the thief of time; Year after year it steals, till all are fled,
And to the mercies of a moment leaves; The vast concerns of an eternal scene.

Offline Libertad

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3489
    • View Profile
    • My Fantasy and Gaming Blog
Re: Arsenic & Old Lace: The Poison Handbook Discussion
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2012, 01:54:11 PM »
Thanks for the info, veekie!

Akalsaris, if you need to insert stuff into the handbook, post them here and the section you want them in!
« Last Edit: January 14, 2012, 02:47:13 PM by Libertad »

Offline Thurbane

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • **
  • Posts: 133
  • 3.5 fanboy
    • View Profile
Re: Arsenic & Old Lace: The Poison Handbook Discussion
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2012, 08:36:54 PM »
It's possible I missed it in the thread, but is Gehennan Morghuth Iron (A&EG) mentioned as a special material? The save is pathetically low, but it's a continual effect poison, and if the weapon is used to deliver a more potent venom, will call for 2 saves.

Offline darknighthg

  • Lurker
  • *
  • Posts: 47
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: Arsenic & Old Lace: The Poison Handbook Discussion
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2012, 01:14:42 AM »
I really couldn't find the Stun Gas at the A&EG. Is it with another name?
btw... GREAT handbook.
I've been building a char based on the assassin's strengths (Poison, sneak attack, death attack) without beeign necesary an assassin or rogue. Something like wizard incantatrix, bard or artificer.
You should do a special mention to Shapechange (or it's psionic brother, Greater Metamorphosis) not only as a part of Alter Self. Because you can change to most of the creatures that have poisons to "spit" the raw material and also you can change from one to another with the same spell as a free action!
When I was thinking about this, I realized that it is not specified anywhere if you use your own HD or the creature's HD -when you polymorph/shapechange- to calculate the creature's special attack's DC. I know you retain your own HD when you use this spells, but you still are changing into the x-HD version of the creature. For example, I am a wizard level 10. If I polymorph into a  snake of 1 HD, the DC of the venom will it be 10 or 15?

Offline akalsaris

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • **
  • Posts: 71
  • I put the laughter in manslaughter!
    • View Profile
Re: Arsenic & Old Lace: The Poison Handbook Discussion
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2012, 01:52:59 AM »
Thanks for the feedback! :)

Stun Gas: My mistake, it's in Underdark Pg. 67.

Gehennan Morghuth Iron (A&EG): I overlooked this material! It's kind of weak even when it does hit, but like you said it's only 4K, and it would do double duty with other poison DC/effect boosters like assassination and whatnot. Definitely a good choice for a dedicated melee poison user.

Shapechange: I'm not really sure if poisons would stick around after changing or not, but I assume they would. It's certainly a cheap way to get a ton of high DC poisons (I'm looking at you, Balor!), though I do have to admit that I'd feel sheepish using Shapechange for such a mundane use as creating poisons  :p

The Assassin Who Isn't An Assassin: I did the same thing in a game actually! I went Cloistered Cleric 5/Darkstalker of Bhaal 1, which along with my feats gave sneak attack, death attack, and poisons without being a rogue or assassin at all. It was quite fun, and the first module had a series of 10 spike traps or something laced with black lotus venom that I gleefully harvested. Campaign didn't last long enough for me to use them, sadly.

Offline darknighthg

  • Lurker
  • *
  • Posts: 47
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: Arsenic & Old Lace: The Poison Handbook Discussion
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2012, 01:32:14 AM »
I didn't like the Gehennan Morghuth iron not because of the DC, but the -1 to attack and damage rolls (always hurts when you have regular BAB)
Anyway. There's a feat in the Dragon magazine #322 (page 37), Deep poisoning, that let you increase the DC of poisons at the cost of 1d6 of SA for each +1 (max +5). AWESOME feat for boosting poison DC.

http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=3329.0
here's the thread of my char. I took the idea of the cleric darkstalker and seems interesting. Pass when you can
« Last Edit: February 11, 2012, 01:50:15 PM by darknighthg »

Offline Maat Mons

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1203
  • What is a smile but a grimace of happiness?
    • View Profile
Re: Arsenic & Old Lace: The Poison Handbook Discussion
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2012, 01:02:33 AM »
Shapechange: I'm not really sure if poisons would stick around after changing or not, but I assume they would.

I'd think poison would count as a body part.  Shapechange and greater metamorphosis both specify that body parts separated from you do not revert.  I'm sure that's why darknighthg cited those two. 

Offline 123456789blaaa

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ***
  • Posts: 623
  • Not very active here but still active online
    • View Profile
Re: Arsenic & Old Lace: The Poison Handbook Discussion
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2012, 10:11:25 PM »
Have you considered adding the poison feats from serpent kingdoms/savage species/lords of madness?

Spit Poison ( Lords of Madness):Prerequisites are Ability Focus (MM) (poison) , Base attack bonus +3, DEX 17, and a poison special attack delivered by bite. The feat allows you to (As a standard action) spit your poison at a single target within 30 feet. The creature must succeed on a ranged touch attack to hit with its poison. The poison affects a hit target just as if the creature had succeeded on a bite attack. The poison is somewhat weakened when spit out, and the poison's save DC is reduced by 2.

Virulent Poison (Savage Species): The prerequisite is a poison attack as an extraordinary ability. The feat allows you to add +2 to the DC of your poison.

Deadly Spittle (Serpent Kingdoms):Prerequisites are spit venom OR spit attack OR spittle attack The feat allows you to spray your spit in a 15-foot cone (I'm unsure if this feat allows you to spray your poison in the cone too).

Deadly Poison (Savage Species): Prerequisites are Con 19, poison attack, Virulent Poison. The feat allows you to double the secondary damage of your poison

 They could be nice for an animal companion at least.

Please, call me Count :).

Offline zook1shoe

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 4540
  • Feeling the Bern
    • View Profile
Re: Arsenic & Old Lace: The Poison Handbook Discussion
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2012, 04:52:38 PM »
Zhentarim Skymage is from Lords of Darkness, not Champions of Ruin
add me on Steam- zook1shoe
- All Spells
- playground

Offline Libertad

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3489
    • View Profile
    • My Fantasy and Gaming Blog
Re: Arsenic & Old Lace: The Poison Handbook Discussion
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2012, 05:24:43 PM »
Zhentarim Skymage is from Lords of Darkness, not Champions of Ruin

Changed!

Offline Pluto

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • *
  • Posts: 28
  • !planet :(
    • View Profile
Re: Arsenic & Old Lace: The Poison Handbook Discussion
« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2012, 12:51:01 PM »
I'm seeing some references to Dragon Magazine material, so would more be appropriate?
DR#322 has a few poisoning abilities that might be notable: the Deep Poisoning feat (trade sneak attack dice for DC boosts on a poisoned attack) and Magic Poisons (rules for making poisons with metamagic-like effects, at a higher price).

Offline zook1shoe

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 4540
  • Feeling the Bern
    • View Profile
Re: Arsenic & Old Lace: The Poison Handbook Discussion
« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2012, 01:21:35 AM »
I'm surprised the poison assassin from Dragon 312 isn't here. I actually just started playing one, so it should be fun!
add me on Steam- zook1shoe
- All Spells
- playground

Offline Maat Mons

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1203
  • What is a smile but a grimace of happiness?
    • View Profile
Re: Arsenic & Old Lace: The Poison Handbook Discussion
« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2013, 12:49:58 AM »
Barber (Dragon 321, p84) gives poison use, a bonus to saves against poison, and increased effectiveness to poisons if you both create and apply them. 

Offline Piggy Knowles

  • Lurker
  • *
  • Posts: 26
  • I'm new!
    • View Profile
Re: Arsenic & Old Lace: The Poison Handbook Discussion
« Reply #16 on: July 09, 2013, 09:09:10 PM »
The guide has Goodbye Kiss (poison from Complete Scoundrel) listed as initial damage fatigue, secondary damage exhausted.  Unless there is an errata, this is incorrect - it's exhausted both times, and failing both saves makes you unconscious.  That's actually quite a bit better than fatigued -> exhausted.  Here's the text from CSco:

"A subject who fails either the initial or the secondary save becomes exhausted for 1 hour.  Failing both saves renders the target unconscious for 1 hour instead."