Author Topic: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread  (Read 64436 times)

Offline zook1shoe

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Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
« Reply #260 on: July 25, 2019, 01:40:36 AM »
makes sense
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Offline Nanshork

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Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
« Reply #261 on: July 26, 2019, 12:38:39 AM »
More added:

Wisdom
 - Cleric (multiple)
 - Druid (Wolf Domain)
 - Gunslinger (Experimental Gunsmith Archetype)
 - Inquisitor (multiple)
 - Investigator (Spiritualist Archetype)
 - Monk (multiple)
 - Shaman (multiple)
 - Warpriest (Magic Blessing)
 - Warpriest (Sacred Fist Archetype)
 - Umbral Agent
 - Earth Child Style feat
 - Ki Diversity feat

Charisma
 - Antipaladin
 - Arcanist (Greater Spell Disruption Greater Exploit)
 - Bard (Magician Archetype)
 - Champion of the Enlightened
 - Gunslinger (Buccaneer Archetype)
 - Magus (Eldritch Scion Archetype)
 - Oracle (multiple)
 - Paladin (multiple)
 - Warpriest 4 (Champion of the Faith Archetype)
 - Divine Protection feat
 - Steadfast Personality feat
 - Irrepressible trait
 - Bracers of the Avenging Knight

Variable/Other
 - Smite Abomination spell

Also some general cleanup happened.

Done!

Offline zook1shoe

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Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
« Reply #262 on: August 29, 2019, 01:39:55 AM »
some more

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Offline zook1shoe

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Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
« Reply #264 on: October 15, 2019, 02:21:04 AM »
(click to show/hide)
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Offline Nanashi

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Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
« Reply #265 on: October 16, 2019, 03:49:36 PM »
Do things that replace a skill check with a check of different skill based on a different attribute count?

Dex based:
Sly Draw (Adventurer's Armor, feat) Sleight of Hand in place of Bluff to feint when you draw a light weapon.

Intelligence based:
Orator (ACG, feat): Replace Diplomacy or Bluff check (limited uses) with Linguistics check.
Esoteric Linguistics (ACG, feat): Replace UMD check to use scroll with Lingusitics check.
Applied Engineering (ACO, Investigator Talent): Replace strength check to break an object or Perception check to locate hidden door/compartment with Knowledge: Engineering (requires extra action)

Wisdom based:
Herb Witch (Heroes of the Wild, Witch Archetype): Use Profession (Herbalist) in place of Craft (Alchemy)

Charisma Based:
Versatile Performance (CRB, Bard 2/6/10/14/18): Replace Acrobatics, Fly, and/or Sense Motive (plus some charisma based skills) with Perform check.
Versatile Performance (ACG, Skald 2/7/12/17): Replace Sense Motive (plus some charisma based skills) with Perform check
Expanded Versatility (Blood of the Beast, replace non-first Versatile Performance): Replace escape artist or sense motive check (plus some charisma based skills) with Perform check
Dance of Disorienting Shadows (Blood of Shadows, Advanced Rogue talent): Use Perform (Dance) check in place of combat maneuver check for reposition.
Pageant of the Peacock (Dragonslayer's Companion, Masterpiece): Replace any intelligence based skill check with a Bluff check (requires extra action, limited uses per day).

There's some others that change a skill to a different skilled based on the same attribute (mostly social skill for social skill), which could be combined with  Bruising Intellect/Clever Wordplay but are so impractical at that to not really be worth noting.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2019, 04:13:03 PM by Nanashi »

Offline Nanshork

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Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
« Reply #266 on: October 16, 2019, 08:16:49 PM »
Mystery added.

For the skill checks, I don't know.  I'll have to go look at the precedent, and I'm having my tonsils removed tomorrow so will probably end up forgetting to look.  Just fyi.

Offline Power

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Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
« Reply #267 on: November 22, 2019, 11:10:35 AM »
PF Duskwalker race's alternate racial trait Yamaraj's Baliff allows Duskwalkers to use Wisdom instead of Charisma to roll Bluff and Diplomacy.

Offline Nanshork

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Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
« Reply #268 on: November 22, 2019, 11:33:50 AM »
PF Duskwalker race's alternate racial trait Yamaraj's Baliff allows Duskwalkers to use Wisdom instead of Charisma to roll Bluff and Diplomacy.

Added!

That's the first real racial entry for PF (not counting Undead).

Offline Power

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Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
« Reply #269 on: December 02, 2019, 08:30:11 PM »
Well then, may as well list some more Pathfinder entries:

Tiefling alternate racial trait "Smite Good" gives 1/day swift: +Cha to attack, +HD to damage,  but only lasts until the first time you hit. Ganzi racial trait Ganzi Oddity's "Chaos Champion" option gives Smite Law as 1/day swift: +Cha to attack, +HD to damage. Both of these races will make for some rather odd Paladins.

Cunning Liar region trait allows you to use Intellect or Wisdom instead of your Charisma modifier on Bluff checks. Balanced Education region trait allows you to 1/day replace a physical skillcheck modifier with a mental one and vice versa, using the following pairings: Strength:Intellect, Dexterity:Wisdom, and Constitution:Charisma.

By the way, it would be much better if your guide specified the trait's category when listing traits, since you need Examplar traits to get multiple traits in the same category, and that's assuming there is an Examplar trait for that category.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2019, 09:58:10 PM by Power »

Offline Nanshork

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Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
« Reply #270 on: December 03, 2019, 09:44:29 AM »
Added.

Also the same argument could be said for alternate racial traits or for archetypes (Paladin for example has a lot of entries).  This guide has never been intended to be a primary source for character building, the first post even says that every single entry should be double checked before used because I only write down the parts that are about adjusting stat usage.

I just don't see a compelling reason to give traits special treatment.

Offline Power

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Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
« Reply #271 on: December 03, 2019, 11:56:15 AM »
No the difference is that one tends to look up traits by category and this results in a lot of time wasted by people who are scrolling down the wrong lists for the trait. For archetypes it's easy to find them and figure out the rest yourself. For traits if you're flipping through 4-5 lists looking for it, it's more of a nuisance. I view listing a trait's category to be the same as listing an archetype's class. Traits should probably also have their own category to be honest, instead of being lumped under Other. Well, time to flesh out the PF list some more so...

More traits:
Animal Rustler race trait: 1/day: Add str mod on top of cha to handle animal.
Disciplined Body race trait: 1/day: Use wis mod to replace str or dex mod for attack, combat maneuver, skill check, str check, dex check, or reflex saving throw.
Intrepid Volunteer race trait: Choose one strength-based skill or combat maneuver. It now uses the dexterity modifier instead.
Heedful Readiness faith trait: 1/day: add wis mod to an initiative check.
Clockwork Surgeon religion trait: Start with custom healer's kit. Can add int mod to hitpoints healed when treating deadly wounds.

And now feats:
Erastil's Blessing: Wis mod replaces dex mod for ranged longbow attacks.
Noble Scion (of Highhelm): Con mod replaces cha for purposes of Leadership feat.
Noble Scion (of Kyonin): Dex mod replaces cha for purposes of Leadership feat.
Barracuda Style: Add wis mod to Swim checks.
Diabolical Negotiator: Wis or int mod (whichever is higher) replaces cha for diplomacy. (Also no limit on diplomacy attitude shifts and creature's attitude only sours if you roll a nat 1.)
Bladed Brush: Glaives can receive Weapon Finesse and count as one-handed piercing or slashing weapons without an off-hand for purposes of feats and class abilities (which opens up dex mod replacing str for damage with Slashing Grace feat and class features).
Ironclad Logic: Some Ultimate Intrigue-only mechanic, but "In verbal duels, when using tactics to which you assigned an Intelligence-based skill, you can add your Intelligence modifier instead of your Charisma modifier to the associated skill check."
Fast Healer: Add half your constitution modifier to hitpoints you regain from magical effects or resting.
Conservatory-Trained: Another Ultimate Intrigue-only mechanic. "You gain an insight bonus equal to your Wisdom modifier on discovery checks using the individual influence system."
Gate Breaker: Add str mod on top of normal damage to damage vs objects, whether sundering or unattended.
Equipment Trick (Sling): Dex replaces str for disarm combat maneuver with sling... (Any effect that replaces attack score also replaces combat maneuver score, for the record.)
Virtuous Creed (of Humility): Add Wis mod to Diplomacy checks (does not replace cha).
Unblinking Flame Feint: Wis mod replaces cha for bluff checks to feint.
Linnorm Style: -2 to AC, add Wis bonus to unarmed strikes replacing str/dex bonus (should say mod, but paizo editing sucks) against a creature that makes a melee attack against you until beginning of said creature's next turn.

Magic items:
Saliharion: While in possession of this tome with Sarenrae as divine patron, add cha or wis mod as sacred bonus to Heal checks and Knowledge checks to identify abilities and weaknesses of enemies.
Amulet of the Spirits (Heavens): When wearer can see open sky at night, add wis mod to all cha checks and cha-based skill checks.
Healer's Satchel: Add wis bonus to Treat Deadly Wounds when expending two uses. If you exceed DC by 5, add double wis bonus. (Likely meant to replace existing bonus for exceeding Heal DC by 5.) Probably more useful if paired with a Boline (10gp) or Mobile hospital (1000gp) to double the amount of uses you can get out of this kit per day.

Other stuff:
Expert Cypher Rogue Talent: Int replaces cha for UMD.
Torture subdomain Painful Smite: Convert attack to nonlethal and add wis mod to damage, usable 3+wis mod times per day (also demoralize as free action, gaining intimidate bonus equal to total nonlethal damage dealt, which effectively adds the previous wis mod to intimidate).
« Last Edit: December 06, 2019, 11:23:22 AM by Power »

Offline Nanshork

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Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
« Reply #272 on: December 03, 2019, 01:19:14 PM »
You and I look up traits very differently. I look up by what they give you, then I pick ones that are in different categories.

Since every trait should be manually looked at anyway and every trait entry tells you what category it is then adding the categories to the entries won't reduce work unless people are just using entries without looking them up which nobody should ever do.

I'm on my phone so won't be adding entries until later.

Offline Nanshork

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Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
« Reply #273 on: December 07, 2019, 02:39:48 PM »
Everything that isn't a feat has been added.  I don't have time for those now and will have to add them later.

Offline zook1shoe

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Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
« Reply #274 on: December 10, 2019, 06:45:23 PM »
found the Saliharion while browsing unslotted items

Quote
If Sarenrae is the owner’s patron, the owner may instead choose to gain a sacred bonus equal to her Wisdom or Charisma modifier on <Heal checks and Knowledge skill checks to identify the abilities and weaknesses of monsters> instead of the normal +2 bonus.

lets you get Wisdom twice on Heal checks
« Last Edit: December 11, 2019, 05:05:17 PM by zook1shoe »
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Offline Nanshork

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Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
« Reply #275 on: December 11, 2019, 08:29:50 PM »
found the Saliharion while browsing unslotted items

Quote
If Sarenrae is the owner’s patron, the owner may instead choose to gain a sacred bonus equal to her Wisdom or Charisma modifier on <Heal checks and Knowledge skill checks to identify the abilities and weaknesses of monsters> instead of the normal +2 bonus.

lets you get Wisdom twice on Heal checks

That was in Power's list so has been added (it's in Variable/Other since you get to pick one of two stats).

I haven't had time to do the feats he posted yet.

Offline zook1shoe

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Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
« Reply #276 on: December 12, 2019, 01:42:55 AM »
lol... didnt even see his post
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Offline Nanshork

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Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
« Reply #278 on: December 17, 2019, 11:37:46 PM »
Feats finally added (Noble Scion entries were already in the list).

Offline Power

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Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
« Reply #279 on: December 23, 2019, 07:36:49 PM »
Got more PF entries.

Feats:
Merciless Rush: If you bullrush and CMB exceeds target's CMD by 5 or more, deal damage equal to str modifier.
Elven Battle Focus: Int mod replaces str mod for damage rolls.
Intimidate Animals: Add wis mod to intimidate checks vs animals (does not replace cha).
Ranged Trip: Make a ranged trip attempt as a full-round action. Use dex mod instead of str for CMB. If it hits, apply damage too.
Ranged Disarm: Same, but for disarm.

Classes/Archetypes:
Sharptooth Barbarian 12: Add con mod in bleed damage to attacks.
Ascetic Kineticist: Wis replaces key ability score of Wild Talents.
Virtuoso Bravo Paladin 1: Use dex mod instead of str for attacks with light or one-handed piercing melee weapons, and use cha score instead of int score to meet int prerequisites of feats.
Savage Technologist Barbarian 3: Add str mod to diplomacy checks with tribal cultures.
Savage Technologist Barbarian 5: Add dex mod to ranged damage rolls with firearms while raging.
High Guardian Fighter 2: Gain Combat Reflexes as bonus feat and use str mod instead of dex to determine number of bonus AoOs.

Prestige classes:
Student of Perfection (One in Mind and Body ki power): spend 1 ki, swift: add Wisdom mod as bonus to Str or dex-based check.
Student of Perfection (Iron Chain Strike ki power): spend 1 ki: Maintain grapple as swift action and add double str bonus to damage roll.
Student of Perfection (Genie's Blade ki power): spend 1 ki, swift: Falchion, kukri, and scimitar (power also grants auto-proficiency in these and makes them count as monk weapons) use unarmed damage die (if greater) and apply full Str mod to attacks (ie. free Double Slice).
Mammoth Rider 1: Use Wild Empathy as Intimidate vs animal or magical beasts, and add Str modifier in addition to Cha modifier to these checks.
Brother of the Seal 4: Gain Awesome Blow as bonus feat. Add Wis mod to CMB for Awesome Blow maneuvers.
Rivethun Emissary 3: Select str, dex, or con. As an immediate action, replace wis mod for selected ability modifier on a single ability check, attack roll, saving throw, or skill check. Usable ½ Rivethun Emissary lvl + Cha mod times per day.

Traits:
Brevoy Bandit region trait: Choose one Profession skill and one ability score other than Wisdom. You add that ability score in addition to Wisdom on checks with the chosen Profession skill.
Voices of Solid Things region trait: Choose Appraise, Craft, Disable Device, or Spellcraft. Cha mod replaces normal ability score for checks.
Persuasive Insight faith trait: More Ultimate Intrigue stuff. Use wis mod instead of cha mod to ask favors, gain influence, use tactics assigned to Diplomacy in verbal duels, or use tactics assigned to Wis-based skills.
Searing Beacon religion trait: Gain wis mod as precision damage bonus to melee crits vs undead.

Other:
Leap and Bound Vigilante talent: Add str to Acrobatics checks.
Tiny size causes you to use Dexterity instead of Strength for CMB, Climb, and Swim checks. Useful for Druids at least. And anyone using Reduce Person from small size.