Author Topic: M:tG Deck Tips?  (Read 30153 times)

Offline dipolartech

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Re: M:tG Deck Tips?
« Reply #120 on: April 03, 2013, 10:51:01 PM »
So I went shopping... at my local card shop I told you about and learned a few things about how they sell their cards. They of course pull rares and offer them up in jeweler cases up front, but whats interesting is that their uncommons and commons are flat rates, if you want specifics pulled from all the way back to like the m10 or m11 block its 50cents for uncommons and 25cents for commons. Pretty much its all about labor there, its more effort for them track and calculate the 15cents or 25 cents difference in value than its worth. So I've got what I consider a reasonable in person place to buy cards in singletons. But you know what? They have even more full uncommon sets than their website says they do. In fact i went ahead with and purchased the 4x box of uncommons for Gatecrash. Oh and for 40 bucks i got 4200 commons ( in sets of seven hundred cause thats what the box holds?) from innistrad, dark ascension, avacyn restored (1400 of those overkill really), m13, and return to ravinica.

I'll probably go back in a month and get another set of uncommons from something maybe I dunno but right now I'm happy. Also got some Guttersnipes for that deck i posted.

Offline Elevevated Beat

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Re: M:tG Deck Tips?
« Reply #121 on: April 04, 2013, 01:51:15 AM »
Strip Mine & Wasteland give you that ability at T1, but they by themselves aren't really really OP, because in the end you're delaying your own mana curve in order to deny that mana curve to your opponent.

This is true, but it wasn't a be-all-end-all statement of the ultimate level of OPness. More a saying, a cliché, a bromide, or all three together if you will.

Edit: Example of the above. Have you ever played League of Legends? The remark "*Character/Item/Monster* OP" is a fairly hackneyed saying.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2013, 01:54:10 AM by Elevevated Beat »
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Offline brujon

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Re: M:tG Deck Tips?
« Reply #122 on: April 04, 2013, 02:22:34 AM »
Oh, i didn't know you were saying it like that. I thought you were making a serious statement about that card having no place in the game, etc...

Yeah, i played LoL. Heavily. Since open beta to about 8 months ago, when i decided i had enough. I reached what was about the peak of where i could go with the game, i'm simply not that good at it, so 1300 ELO was the ceiling for me. Couple of my friends who transferred over to the Brazilian server are now hovering around 2k ELO(or so lolking says, because ELO is not really shown anymore.).

About old cards... The game was pretty different back then, there were way less mechanics than there are right now, and as such there was a lot of playing around with the mechanics that already existed... Land Destruction was one such mechanic that got played around with a lot. In fact, permanent destruction in general. I remember the time when i MAINDECKED Nevynrall's Disk. Jokulhalps saw a lot of casual play as well. There was a lot of board hate. Discard became a thing with Tempest, and then Urza brought in unprecedented amounts of mana acceleration and artifact play and unique abilities. Those early blocks really WERE kind of broken by today's standard. There's a reason why the focus has been steadily shifting from Legacy to Modern & Standard.

Legacy Play has become kind of boring. People still play Necropotence and win. Bans and restrictions help, but don't fix the problem. Now and then there are really new decks, but mostly? It's the same decks over and over, with new cards being added in, and old cards removed, when it's advantageous to do so. The problem is exacerbated with new cards with new names but same mechanics as older cards, making it possible to have much more than 4 cards with the same ability and CMC.
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Offline Elevevated Beat

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Re: M:tG Deck Tips?
« Reply #123 on: April 04, 2013, 09:47:28 PM »
I just can't wait til they bring out the Australian server... :love

Back to MtG. There are two decks I like that came out at Worlds during the times I used to play. MUD and the deck that focused around the 3/1 Haste graveyard recurring thing from Torment. It was black and rare. With the Vial from Mirrodin block that allowed you to effectively mulligan you had +90% chance (I think) of getting a winning hand (3rd turn or something, I believe).
They weren't the best (read: most expensive) decks out there, but they did well, and were, to me at least, decks that stood out as interesting/different.
Do you know how long someone who is as sarcastic as I am would last in prison? Suuuuuuch a long time.

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Offline Concerned Ninja Citizen

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Re: M:tG Deck Tips?
« Reply #124 on: April 04, 2013, 10:42:08 PM »
Ichorid was a pretty competitive deck in extended for a while (back when extended still existed/people still cared about it.) It was kinda the forerunner to Dredge combo.

Legacy wise, I've just looked over the top few decks from the last 3 major Legacy events and I didn't see a single necropotence. Pretty much all the decks I saw drew on recent sets and several of the more popular archetypes are based on cards from recent sets. There also seems to be a pretty decent number of viable archetypes with aggro, combo, and control all well represented.

Legacy is dying out as a format but, IMO, that has less to do with it no longer being a healthy or interesting meta than with the steadily increasing price of admission. The true duals took a giant leap up in price a couple years back and haven't gone back down since. There's a few other extremely expensive cards, Tabernacle being one of them, but true duals are the main culprits. You can't play the vast majority of legacy viable decks without them and reprinting them isn't an option.

Offline brujon

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Re: M:tG Deck Tips?
« Reply #125 on: April 04, 2013, 11:55:07 PM »
Yes, i had forgotten about that little bit as well. Price of Admission is definitely a thing in legacy. You literally can't build a competitive legacy deck for under 300$. That's how much an effective Goblins mono red will cost you. It's still pretty effective but won't win you any tournaments. I loved played Goblins too, btw. One of the reasons it's way cheaper than the other decks, is because it's mono color. Goblin Piledriver, of course, drives the price up. A lot. http://sales.starcitygames.com/cardsearch.php?singlesearch=Goblin%20Piledriver 24,99 Near Mint. Ouch. And you gotta run 4 in most builds. Only that drives the price up to 100$. Then there's all the other cards, and in the end it's about 300$ for the full deck. A bargain in Legacy. Top decks go for more than 1000$ typically. Volcanic Island, UR dual land, one of the most coveted, goes for 139,99. http://sales.starcitygames.com/search.php?substring=Volcanic+Island&t_all=All&start_date=2010-01-29&end_date=2012-04-22&order_1=finish&limit=25&action=Show%2BDecks&card_qty%5B1%5D=1&auto=Y .

Yeah. Legacy is EXPENSIVE. It's fun to play sometimes on Cockatrice/Magic Workstation, though.


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Offline Elevevated Beat

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Re: M:tG Deck Tips?
« Reply #126 on: April 05, 2013, 12:25:40 AM »
Ichorid was a pretty competitive deck in extended for a while (back when extended still existed/people still cared about it.) It was kinda the forerunner to Dredge combo.

Thank you. Was having a mind blank :(

But, yes. Hella expensive to build a (competitive) deck for Legacy.
Do you know how long someone who is as sarcastic as I am would last in prison? Suuuuuuch a long time.

Bhu: Favorite quote of the day: “I’ll make love to you like a confused bear. Awkwardly. And in a manner that suggests I’m trying to escape.”

Offline littha

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Re: M:tG Deck Tips?
« Reply #127 on: April 05, 2013, 02:51:24 AM »
It occurs to me that I had better locate and sell some of my older cards... I think I have a foil damnation around here somewhere... Though I think those are only like $50 or so...

Offline Sinfire Titan

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Re: M:tG Deck Tips?
« Reply #128 on: April 05, 2013, 09:16:15 AM »
Yeah. Legacy is EXPENSIVE. It's fun to play sometimes on Cockatrice

It used to be fun on Cockatrice, then WotC sent a C&D.
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Offline DonQuixote

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Re: M:tG Deck Tips?
« Reply #129 on: April 05, 2013, 02:18:40 PM »
Yes.  There's...certainly no way to keep using Cockatrice.

Of course not.

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Offline brujon

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Re: M:tG Deck Tips?
« Reply #130 on: April 05, 2013, 05:33:01 PM »
Wow... I didn't knew that. This sucks.

In any case, i believe this was sparked by the fact that Cockatrice was getting too popular, more popular than Magic Online, even, possibly. There are alternatives, like Octagon and Magic Workstation, though.

I think part of the reason why they managed to target Cockatrice and not Magic Workstation, for instance, is because of built in mechanics of the M:TG game, and stated goals. Magic Workstation is not sold/distributed as a platform to play Magic: The Gathering online, but rather as a platform for the development and playing of card games, in general, and there are no built in M:TG mechanics inside of Magic Workstation. Rather, the scans, card text & rules, are provided elsewhere, and the program just provides a framework that accepts that format and enables you to play.

I do hope the creator of Cockatrice gets competent legal advice, and that the project is able to be revived, impervious to WoTC's legal claims.
"All the pride and pleasure of the world, mirrored in the dull consciousness of a fool, are poor indeed compared with the imagination of Cervantes writing his Don Quixote in a miserable prison" - Schopenhauer, Aphorisms: The Wisdom of Life

Offline Nytemare3701

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Re: M:tG Deck Tips?
« Reply #131 on: April 05, 2013, 10:52:10 PM »
Cockatrice doesn't contain the card images either (it fetches all the cards from Gatherer, as per the terms and agreements by WoTC). It has a specific framework as the default, but can be modified for other games.
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« Last Edit: April 05, 2013, 11:00:25 PM by Nytemare3701 »
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Offline De Molay

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Re: M:tG Deck Tips?
« Reply #132 on: June 25, 2013, 06:32:20 PM »
Yep, Cockatrice was restored to functionality via abovementioned server so free testing is still possible thankfully.) (Oops, probably I shouldn't have posted it?  :??? :) )

Speaking of Legacy and prices: yes, it's pretty expensive to enter legacy but quite cheap to stay there. That's the huge advantage of eternal formats. Buy your cardpool once and you have to modify it slightly and not too devastating.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2013, 06:35:30 PM by De Molay »

Offline Bauglir

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Re: M:tG Deck Tips?
« Reply #133 on: July 05, 2013, 03:05:24 AM »
So how bout that M14? This card seems like a fun card to build around. I've got a silly idea for a more-or-less budget RG splash W deck that runs burn, some tokens (Young Pyromancer is good for this), and this, relying on Axebane Guardian for the mana ramp and reliability. A little on the slow side, but surprisingly stable for a sacrifice/burn deck, it's looking like. Boros Charm provides some burn or resilience to board wipes, and I might throw in some Rootborn Defenses for more indestructibility and populate. Early game, drop Burning-Tree Emissaries and sac them when they're about to die, late game Assemble the Legion. Might throw in a Voice on account of every GW deck being better with them.

Offline Concerned Ninja Citizen

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Re: M:tG Deck Tips?
« Reply #134 on: August 07, 2013, 07:04:04 PM »
Barrage may be interesting in standard and limited. Unfortunately, Goblin Bombardment is probably better in most instances for formats where it is legal. Might be worth it as a second copy of bombardment in EDH.

The new slivers are somewhat interesting, as much as a look at what abilities are valued higher or lower than previous sliver releases as anything else. Double Strike, flying and lifelink are cheaper (though Essence Sliver used the pre keyword lifelink which meant that multiple instances stacked) while +0/+1 is more expensive.

Functional reprint of muscle sliver means you can run 12 pump sliver grizzly bears if you so choose.

Reprinting Scavenging Ooze is interesting. That came out of the commander precons originally, so it was supposedly balanced for legacy play, not standard.

Shadowborn Apostle makes me wonder about EDH possibilities.

In general I'm seeing lots of fun timmy cards, which seems about right for a core set.

Offline Gazzien

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Re: M:tG Deck Tips?
« Reply #135 on: August 23, 2013, 01:56:50 AM »
Barrage may be interesting in standard and limited. Unfortunately, Goblin Bombardment is probably better in most instances for formats where it is legal. Might be worth it as a second copy of bombardment in EDH.

The new slivers are somewhat interesting, as much as a look at what abilities are valued higher or lower than previous sliver releases as anything else. Double Strike, flying and lifelink are cheaper (though Essence Sliver used the pre keyword lifelink which meant that multiple instances stacked) while +0/+1 is more expensive.

Functional reprint of muscle sliver means you can run 12 pump sliver grizzly bears if you so choose.

Reprinting Scavenging Ooze is interesting. That came out of the commander precons originally, so it was supposedly balanced for legacy play, not standard.

Shadowborn Apostle makes me wonder about EDH possibilities.

In general I'm seeing lots of fun timmy cards, which seems about right for a core set.
As my final post for the night, and as a response to Slivers:
My group mainly plays EDH. With the advent of M14, I can do EDH Slivers.
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Offline Amechra

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Re: M:tG Deck Tips?
« Reply #136 on: March 04, 2014, 11:22:20 PM »
I just found a pretty neat combo:

Mindcrank + Bloodchief Ascension

Mindcrank mills opponents for a number of cards equal to the damage they take. every time they take damage. Once Bloodchief Ascension has 3 Quest counters on it, any card that enters an opponent's graveyard anywhere deals them 2 damage, and you gain 2 life.

In a single player game, the fastest you can get this combo going is by your opponent's 2nd turn, if you go first (Bloodchief Ascension gains a Quest counter whenever an opponent has taken 2 damage in a turn.) Then, they have to be careful.

After all, any damage they take results in a deck-out, and copious amounts of damage. Each damage you deal to them forces them to mill 1 card, gives you two life, and deals 2 damage to them. It isn't an infinite loop, because it stops as soon as they run out of cards to sacrifice.

Did I mention that this combo is, beyond the first payment, absolutely, perfectly free?

Some other nice combos are:

Solitary Confinement + Eon Hub! Solitary Confinement  gives you Shroud and makes you immune to damage... but you lose your Draw Step, and it gets sacrificed if you can't discard a card when Upkeep rolls around! Good thing Eon Hub removes the Upkeep phase entirely. For everyone.

Then just grab something like Psychic Possession that lets you ignore the fact that you lack a draw step.

A brutal milling combo (that doesn't just nuke decks from orbit) is Jace's Erasure + Notion Thief + Teferi's Puzzle Box. Also known as "Everyone! Put your hand at the bottom of your deck. Now draw that many cards. Oh, wait, Notion Thief means I draw every one of those cards after the first one. Lose that many cards off the top of your deck anyway. Now take your draw phase... which means I get an extra card and you just mill your top one."

You saw the above? Everyone does that every turn. Everyone but you effectively has a hand-size of 1. This is a combo that lets you play a 300+ card deck without having cards you can't find. Just toss a copy of Anvil of Bogardan into your deck, and enjoy the unlimited hand size.
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Offline Rubberblock

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Re: M:tG Deck Tips?
« Reply #137 on: June 29, 2014, 05:09:28 PM »
It's easy enough to make brutal combos, but mostly dependent on the format you're playing.   The issue I have is that a lot of formats (Legacy, Modern in particular) are basically the equivalent of an Soggy biscuit game, with little to no interactivity.   Magic has this weird curve where you at first try to make the best deck possible, and then unless you're playing in tournaments where it's expect of you to, you know, Win with no mercy, it's very little fun in Kitchen Table magic. 

I mostly play EDH this day (U/G Edric, mostly stompy counters) , and to date my most hilarious combo is Dominating Licid and Perplexing Chimera together.  It's very easily interruptible, especially in multiplayer games, but for the most part it's harmless.  I had to take Memnarch and Palinchron out of my deck as winning as soon as I tooth and nailed was just boring.

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: M:tG Deck Tips?
« Reply #138 on: July 31, 2014, 07:22:51 AM »
Win with no mercy, it's very little fun in Kitchen Table magic.
Exactly how I feel. It hasn't stopped me from playing with certain things, but generally I'm just a casual player out for fun.

I just ordered the challenge decks from amazon, they have co-op rules and I figured it'd be something to try, the archenemy dragon deck I picked up for much of the same reason ended up getting torn apart and rebuilt with one of every dragon I own. Coolness factor 10, playability "I need more than 4 shamans!" heh. Splashed green to help with mana which helped a bit through.
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Offline Amechra

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Re: M:tG Deck Tips?
« Reply #139 on: July 31, 2014, 06:41:00 PM »
I don't even play anymore. I just like theorycraft.  :D
"There is happiness for those who accept their fate, there is glory for those that defy it."

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