Author Topic: Proposed Handbook: THE SPELL BOOK  (Read 10706 times)

Offline Captnq

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Proposed Handbook: THE SPELL BOOK
« on: May 05, 2012, 07:44:52 PM »
Now that 3.x has come to a close and WotC has moved onto 5E, no further offical WotC spells for 3.5 are being created. Therefore I propose the creation of THE SPELL BOOK

Mission Statement: To create the definitive work on 3.x spells.

It is to include how they have been used and abused by DMs and Players, how each spell is viewed both RAW, RAI, and TO, and what suggestions can be made on how to use the spell in play. It will contain, every other handbook's notes on every spell. The goal, for this gargantuan undertaking is the complete write up of everything on every 3.x spell...

ONCE AND FOR ALL UNTIL THE END OF TIME.

I have begun my monumental epoch spanning task here.

I have a massive file from all the other handbooks, both here and elsewhere, including the threads from other major D&D 3.X chatboards, that has all the player comments on various spells, that I am slowly summing up into a single file that I call, THE SPELL BOOK. It has a complete list of every 3.0 and 3.5 unique spell caster list. It also has notes on all the spells. The goal is to have the definitive work on what the players think about the spells.

My Guidelines:
- The Spell must be published by WotC. (I am still up in the air about Dragon Magazine Published Spells. Don't even think about Dungeon magazine or 3rd party, as they lack even the smallest amount of WotC oversight)

- Metamagic feats can alter spells so an appendix shall be included for metamagic feats. Each spell shall have a write up about what metamagic feats work best with them, so shall all the metamagic feats have a list of prefered spells.

-As some feats that are not metamagic feats do influence spells, their shall be a second appendix for them, but they will not be in any spell write up, nor shall they have a list of prefered spells. They are included for information purposes only.

-Shadow metamagic feats suck, but shall be included because someone put metamagic on them. So as to not get any suck on any other feats, they shall be put in a seperate appendix. They shall be shunned for lack of cross game setting playability and shall never be mensioned again.

-Nothing a race, class, or other that has anything to do with spells shall be included. This is about SPELLS. What you can put a spell in, how you can modify them, and what you can do with them.

-Metamagic rods shall be included in the metamagic section. Only published by WotC rods shall be included, and don't you even think about Metamagic Twin rods, or Twin Sudden. I'm looking at YOU Serian's player.  :ahem I'm watching you.

-Each spell shall have a write up of any practical magic items. This shall include Scrolls, Wands, and Potions. It will not list wonderious items made from the spell, for that would take forever and who gives a shit?, It will not include staves, for staves are many spells in one, and if some power gamer wants to make a staff with one spell, I declare it thematically incorrect! I'm not gonna help you twink out a staff of 50 wishes, deal with it. It shall not include any 'alternate' forms for spell containment. While putting a potion in a fruit is kinda cool, I declare that there is no room in THE SPELL BOOK.

-It will not include spell effects, like that spell where you put another spell in a skull and crush it. For that is dumb.

-Oh yeah, THE SPELL BOOK must always be spelled in all caps.

-Magic items will include possible combinations that someone might actually make and use. Silly combos like the Enervate Spell/Energize Spell on any give damage spell is a waste of time, oh verily and it is so. If you wouldn't use it, it ain't going it.

-THE SPELL BOOK is dynamic and flowing. Players and DMs alike are encouraged to comment on their favorate spells, there is room for conflicting view points. Editorials shall be condensed to reflect the majority opinion and the minority opinion. Wacko opinions shall be ignored. Sorry.

-There are other sensitive topics that elect great debate. For example, Chain and Rays/Reach Spells will be treated with kid gloves. Frankly, I don't think they should work together, but some people do. This, and other taboo subjects shall be listed under WARNING: to explain that you really need a DM to Okay this one.


And I'm open to suggestions.

This is the declaration of intent and my methodology this is a multiyear project that I have been working on for a while now.

Step 1: Get complete list of all Spells and Spell Lists. Arrange in alphabetical order (Done)
Step 2: Cross reference all Spells and Spell Lists (Done)
Step 3: Read through all Boards on here, OotS, WotC, and any other Chatboard for Handbooks/discussions on spells and get all comments. (Done-Keep Action Item Open and Check for Updates)
Step 4: Organize comments in alphabetical order and add to complete listing of spells as Editor Comments (Processing)
Step 5: Fully explore all possibilties of any given spell and then post for public review (Processing)
Step 6: Move Spells from public review to THE SPELL BOOK. (Pending)
Step 7: Post Guidlines for THE SPELL BOOK and seek out public review and evaluate suggestions and requests. (Current Action Item)
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Offline sirpercival

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Re: Proposed Handbook: THE SPELL BOOK
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2012, 08:24:52 PM »
How are you going to handle different versions of the same spell from different books?  Only newest version, or all of them?
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Offline Captnq

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Re: Proposed Handbook: THE SPELL BOOK
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2012, 11:37:49 PM »
How are you going to handle different versions of the same spell from different books?  Only newest version, or all of them?

I thought about including both versions, but the book is already unwieldly as it is. So, for the sake of sanity and to streamline it for use as a reference material, it will only include the 3.5 version that is available in the latest printing. But, for the player's reference, it will include which books had a version of the spell, so if you are curious, you can go look up the older copies yourself, and if you are only playing 3.0 (for some unfathomable reason) you will know which ones had a 3.0 version.
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Offline Captnq

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Re: Proposed Handbook: THE SPELL BOOK
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2012, 06:15:29 PM »
Well, with no more comments I move onto the next phase

A RAW/RAI/TO version of the spell casting rules. (Dun Dun DUNNNNNNNN.... *Crash*)

So, I will post sections of the rules, encourage people to make comments about clairifications, questions, and obvious abuses, then Summarize the rules in THE SPELL BOOK.

Does anyone have any particular order by which this should be done? Or does someone know where the complete list of all updated spell rules is? And I mean from every book in one place. Prefereably with editorial and reader comments.
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Offline Unbeliever

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Re: Proposed Handbook: THE SPELL BOOK
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2012, 11:18:26 AM »
I haven't commented b/c I wouldn't have approached the situation this way.  I think rather than a giant book of spells, sets of spells organized around a particular theme, archetype, or goal would be both more valuable and less laborious. 

TreantMonk's guides do this to some extent, around a very loose theme, although that guide is also very optimization oriented as well. 

Offline Nytemare3701

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Re: Proposed Handbook: THE SPELL BOOK
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2012, 11:45:10 AM »
im
Does anyone have any particular order by which this should be done? Or does someone know where the complete list of all updated spell rules is? And I mean from every book in one place. Prefereably with editorial and reader comments.

www.imarvintpa.com has notes with most of the spells talking about how they were changed by certain books.
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Offline Captnq

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Re: Proposed Handbook: THE SPELL BOOK
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2012, 04:17:50 PM »
I haven't commented b/c I wouldn't have approached the situation this way.  I think rather than a giant book of spells, sets of spells organized around a particular theme, archetype, or goal would be both more valuable and less laborious. 

TreantMonk's guides do this to some extent, around a very loose theme, although that guide is also very optimization oriented as well.

I understand, but my problem is, I read one guide, Disintegrate is the bomb. I read another, he's got a bunch of points about how the spell sucks, But Nobody tells me WHY. Heck, nobody tells me what rules they are using. My goal is to build a sort of general reference guide. What Spell Compendium should have been. Notes not just to players on how to OP, but what DM's should look for and why certain spells need to watched.
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Offline Captnq

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Re: Proposed Handbook: THE SPELL BOOK
« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2012, 04:18:54 PM »
im
Does anyone have any particular order by which this should be done? Or does someone know where the complete list of all updated spell rules is? And I mean from every book in one place. Prefereably with editorial and reader comments.

www.imarvintpa.com has notes with most of the spells talking about how they were changed by certain books.

Ah. Already went through and I'm only using the latest printing of anything.
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Offline Captnq

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Re: Proposed Handbook: THE SPELL BOOK
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2012, 02:05:51 AM »
Question:

Should such a hand book include non-metamagic feats?

I'm looking through and finding many useful non-metamagic feats. So many it's maddening.

I mean, technically, any feat that improves your ability to fire ray spells (any of the archery related feats, for example) would modify your ability to use spells. On the other hand, should that not be included?

I've always been wary of Mission Creep on this one. I was thinking of limiting it to:

Metamagic feats
Feats that modify metamagic feats. (meta-metamagic feats)
The few oddball feats that modify spells but aren't called metamagic feats.

The hard part is determining a list of the third grouping. Anyone ever come up with a list of Non-metamagic feats that affect spells? Augment Summoning, for example.

BTW: project update Computer crashed and I lost a day's worth of work. I have to go back to start and re-intergrate the updated FAQ into the Spellcasting rules section. With work picking back up, this is going to set me back.
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Offline zook1shoe

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Re: Proposed Handbook: THE SPELL BOOK
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2012, 02:56:37 AM »
I've been doing something similar for awhile, but it is with all licensed materials and every possible class/prestige class for each spell

It's all Microsoft office documents, just the 's' section is 180 pages long!
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Offline Talore

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Re: Proposed Handbook: THE SPELL BOOK
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2012, 04:13:13 PM »
There really needs to be a handbook for gish spells. There are a ton of them scattered through sourcebooks and handbooks but nobody has bothered to compile a master list...
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Offline lieronet

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Re: Proposed Handbook: THE SPELL BOOK
« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2012, 08:50:23 AM »
Your persistent spell writeup in the metamagic section should probably discuss its abusability with Divine Metamagic and Wraithstrike. DMM Persist is fucking mean, and persistent wraithstrike on a gish build is definitely worth the feat slot, something to think about.
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Offline sirpercival

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Re: Proposed Handbook: THE SPELL BOOK
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2012, 11:11:06 AM »
You may have an issue in terms of logistics.  I think you HAVE to put more than one spell per post, because threads are limited to 1000 posts.  Luckily the character limit on posts is 40k, so you should definitely have the room to combine things.  Judicious use of spoilers is going to be your friend.
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Offline Captnq

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Re: Proposed Handbook: THE SPELL BOOK
« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2012, 12:14:30 PM »
You may have an issue in terms of logistics.  I think you HAVE to put more than one spell per post, because threads are limited to 1000 posts.  Luckily the character limit on posts is 40k, so you should definitely have the room to combine things.  Judicious use of spoilers is going to be your friend.

You have a point. Maybe I'll combine all the boring spells into one paragraph write ups and all the interesting ones into full length write ups that get their own post.
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Offline Halinn

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Re: Proposed Handbook: THE SPELL BOOK
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2012, 03:35:30 PM »
You may have an issue in terms of logistics.  I think you HAVE to put more than one spell per post, because threads are limited to 1000 posts.  Luckily the character limit on posts is 40k, so you should definitely have the room to combine things.  Judicious use of spoilers is going to be your friend.
Could be worse. It could be like a "real" spellbook, and he'd have to use one post per spell level :p

Offline Captnq

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Re: Proposed Handbook: THE SPELL BOOK
« Reply #15 on: May 26, 2012, 12:21:40 AM »
Finished adding the new info to the rules section. SSI 2.01 is now available HERE
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Offline Sirdanile

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Re: Proposed Handbook: THE SPELL BOOK
« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2012, 01:34:41 PM »
Are you planning on including any rules involving your actual in-game spell book, such as traps or separate materials?

Offline Captnq

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Re: Proposed Handbook: THE SPELL BOOK
« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2012, 06:22:34 PM »
Are you planning on including any rules involving your actual in-game spell book, such as traps or separate materials?

Uh, Section 1 has all the rules. Do you think any are missing? I don't understand Traps/seperate materials. Do you have an example?
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Offline Halinn

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Re: Proposed Handbook: THE SPELL BOOK
« Reply #18 on: June 02, 2012, 03:17:20 PM »
Are you planning on including any rules involving your actual in-game spell book, such as traps or separate materials?

Uh, Section 1 has all the rules. Do you think any are missing? I don't understand Traps/seperate materials. Do you have an example?
I think he was meaning in terms of methods to safeguard the spell book itself.

Offline Captnq

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Re: Proposed Handbook: THE SPELL BOOK
« Reply #19 on: June 02, 2012, 09:28:46 PM »
I think he was meaning in terms of methods to safeguard the spell book itself.

Ah.

I thought of that, and indeed have a half finished file on that. However, I'm trying to avoid mission creep. So, unless someone else wants to write all the enchantments you can put in a book and all the possible ways to booby trap a spell book and send me the file, no.

I will include it, if someone else finishes the legwork, however.


Speaking of...

Is there any call for keeping track of 3rd party metamagic feats? I've come across some that were just plain nifty, but they aren't official by any stretch of the imagination. Personally, the metamagic feat that lets you exchange any Ability listing in a spell for any other ability listing seemed like it was way overdue. But it's third party. Thoughts?

Actually, ya know what. I'm gonna open this up in a new thread.
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