Author Topic: Warlock - Expert advice needed.  (Read 19106 times)

Offline sirpercival

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Re: Warlock - Expert advice needed.
« Reply #20 on: July 10, 2012, 02:42:27 PM »
I should homebrew a Warlock prc that channels EB through natural attacks.  Could pair with lots of different classes (totemist, druid, polymorphing gish).
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Offline Silveron

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Re: Warlock - Expert advice needed.
« Reply #21 on: July 10, 2012, 03:07:06 PM »
I was thinking more along the lines of how like you can add corrosive to a bow and all arrows shot from bow do the extra 1d6 dmg, basically adding same premise to a glove or rod or something to do similar to EB adding 1d6 acid damage to each blast.

Chasuble of Fell Power: This long, embroidered strip of scarlet cloth is covered with arcane sigils and mystic designs. Worn over the neck (occupying space on the body as an amulet), a chasuble of fell power adds 1d6 points of damage (lesser) or 2d6 points of damage (greater) to any eldritch blast the wearer invokes, or to any spell the wearer casts that deals hit point damage and has the chaotic descriptor.

If this can be done why not other types of damage added?

Offline ariasderros

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Re: Warlock - Expert advice needed.
« Reply #22 on: July 10, 2012, 03:16:19 PM »
I was thinking more along the lines of how like you can add corrosive to a bow and all arrows shot from bow do the extra 1d6 dmg, basically adding same premise to a glove or rod or something to do similar to EB adding 1d6 acid damage to each blast.

Chasuble of Fell Power: This long, embroidered strip of scarlet cloth is covered with arcane sigils and mystic designs. Worn over the neck (occupying space on the body as an amulet), a chasuble of fell power adds 1d6 points of damage (lesser) or 2d6 points of damage (greater) to any eldritch blast the wearer invokes, or to any spell the wearer casts that deals hit point damage and has the chaotic descriptor.

If this can be done why not other types of damage added?

There are gloves that can do that a certain number of times per day.
Use the custom item formulas to deconstruct the gloves, then reconstruct them for unlimited charges?
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Offline kitep

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Re: Warlock - Expert advice needed.
« Reply #23 on: July 11, 2012, 12:56:58 AM »
The Warlock Scepter in Complete Arcane (p145) costs 28,000 gp
The Warlock Scepter in Magic Item Compendium (p63) costs 8,305 gp.

Just thought you should know :)

There are other changes.
CAr lets you spend 2 charges for +2d6.  MIC doesn't.
CAr gives you a +2 to hit.  MIC is just a +1.
Both limit you to 5/day, but CAr also limits you to 50 total - MIC is unlimited.

Guess which one I'd buy?

Offline Solo

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Re: Warlock - Expert advice needed.
« Reply #24 on: July 11, 2012, 01:01:36 AM »
"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down."

Offline kitep

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Re: Warlock - Expert advice needed.
« Reply #25 on: July 11, 2012, 01:07:55 AM »
There are gloves/gauntlets in the Magic Item Compendium that will add some energy damage to your EB.

Gloves of Eldritch Admixture, MIC-105.  2500gp for 3 charges/day, for +2d6, 3d6, 4d6 extra energy damage.  I think these are an even better deal than the Warlock Scepter, though you don't get a +1 to hit (which you usually won't need since you're doing touch attacks.  You can buy a (eternal) wand of TrueStrike for when you're having trouble hitting)

There are also Gauntlets of Eldritch Energy (MIC-102) which lets you CONVERT your EB into a type of energy, but doesn't add any damage.  I'd avoid these.

Offline kitep

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Re: Warlock - Expert advice needed.
« Reply #26 on: July 11, 2012, 01:13:21 AM »
BTW, in case you're not aware of it, there are additional Warlock invocations in Dragon Magic, p81-82.  That's where you'll find the Eldritch Glaive that's been talked about.

Offline kitep

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Re: Warlock - Expert advice needed.
« Reply #27 on: July 11, 2012, 01:17:29 AM »
Here is one of my builds.

That's quite the profession you've got there  :)  Too bad you've got no ranks in it.


Offline Solo

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Re: Warlock - Expert advice needed.
« Reply #28 on: July 11, 2012, 01:32:35 AM »
Ranks? Where we're going, we don't need ranks.
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Offline Silveron

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Re: Warlock - Expert advice needed.
« Reply #29 on: July 11, 2012, 03:56:38 AM »
Wow thx again Kitep very helpful.

Sooo.. If I upgrade Warlocks Septer from MIC to +5 does that give me +5 profane bonus to ranged touch attacks?

Why use Eldritch Glaive and not just Point blank shot, to fire EB at close range?

Would Quicken Spell Like Ability allow me to get more attacks?

« Last Edit: July 11, 2012, 04:03:52 AM by Silveron »

Offline Jackinthegreen

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Re: Warlock - Expert advice needed.
« Reply #30 on: July 11, 2012, 05:01:23 AM »
Wow thx again Kitep very helpful.

Sooo.. If I upgrade Warlocks Septer from MIC to +5 does that give me +5 profane bonus to ranged touch attacks?

Why use Eldritch Glaive and not just Point blank shot, to fire EB at close range?

Would Quicken Spell Like Ability allow me to get more attacks?

A weapon's enhancement bonus has little or nothing to do with its special powers.  A +5 Warlock Scepter would not, RAW, grant +5 to ranged touch attacks.  It wouldn't be game-breaking at all to allow it though.

An Eldritch Blast is a standard action to use.  Eldritch Glaive is a full round action to essentially make a full attack with EB, which means iterative attacks and thus more damage.  A full attack beats a single attack, wouldn't you say?  It's unclear whether Glaive allows you to hold any other weapon while using it, so check with your DM about it.  Glaive turns EB into a melee touch attack though, so the scepter wouldn't grant an accuracy boost anyway but could potentially grant a damage boost

Quicken would help out, but it's a bit wonky for Warlock to be honest.  There are caster level limits and crap.  Now that I notice it I think it needs to be looked at in full detail, unless someone has a link to where it has already been done.

Keep in mind that because EB is a ray, it can crit as per the rules found here, though it has much less support than standard weapons do.  If you're going to change the Warlock's Scepter too allow for its enhancement bonus to work with EB, perhaps you could also change it to allow certain weapon enhancements to work with it too such as Improved Critical.

Offline Silveron

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Re: Warlock - Expert advice needed.
« Reply #31 on: July 11, 2012, 08:46:29 AM »
Keep in mind that because EB is a ray, it can crit as per the rules found here, though it has much less support than standard weapons do.  If you're going to change the Warlock's Scepter too allow for its enhancement bonus to work with EB, perhaps you could also change it to allow certain weapon enhancements to work with it too such as Improved Critical.

Thats exactaly what I am tring to work out if I can do. I wish to find an item I can apply weapon bonuses to to enhance my accuracy with EB, Warlock does not have the best BAB, plus with the size of our group we will be getting abit higher things throw at us. So do not want half my shots of EB to miss. Between magic items and Hellfire warlock I think I got damage covered now just want to perfect accuracy.

Offline Jackinthegreen

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Re: Warlock - Expert advice needed.
« Reply #32 on: July 11, 2012, 09:27:03 AM »
Keep in mind that because EB is a ray, it can crit as per the rules found here, though it has much less support than standard weapons do.  If you're going to change the Warlock's Scepter too allow for its enhancement bonus to work with EB, perhaps you could also change it to allow certain weapon enhancements to work with it too such as Improved Critical.

Thats exactaly what I am tring to work out if I can do. I wish to find an item I can apply weapon bonuses to to enhance my accuracy with EB, Warlock does not have the best BAB, plus with the size of our group we will be getting abit higher things throw at us. So do not want half my shots of EB to miss. Between magic items and Hellfire warlock I think I got damage covered now just want to perfect accuracy.

Anything that will increase your ranged attack accuracy, so long as it isn't a weapon enhancement typically, will work for EB.  From the sound of it you don't want homebrew, in which case I honestly do not know of much that will help you other than some standard tricks.

First, EB is a touch attack, so it ignores most armor bonuses and such.  Right there you have some darn good accuracy for most things.  If you attack from invisibility then you get a +2 on attacks and the enemy is typically flat-footed against the attack, which means lower AC.

How much of that guide I linked did you read?

Offline ariasderros

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Re: Warlock - Expert advice needed.
« Reply #33 on: July 11, 2012, 10:29:42 AM »
Quicken would help out, but it's a bit wonky for Warlock to be honest.  There are caster level limits and crap.  Now that I notice it I think it needs to be looked at in full detail, unless someone has a link to where it has already been done.

There are only three feats that are meta-SLA's: Quicken; Maximize; and Empower.

Maximize and Empower share the same mechanic: you can only take the feat for a SLA that has an effective spell level equal to or less than 1/2 your caster level, -2, as given on the chart for Empower SLA on page 304 of the Monster Manual, and here.
(click to show/hide)
And so on. Basically, you are always at a caster level four lower than you would need for those feats to be put on EB.
RAW, not RAI though, as even their example is of a warlock with Maximize SLA, and most DMs would allow it.
But yes, by RAW you can never qualify for those feats, and Quicken SLA is even worse.
And as far as whether equipment or spells that boost your SLA caster level qualify you for the prerequisite is, as always, up to your DM.
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Offline RedWarlock

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Re: Warlock - Expert advice needed.
« Reply #34 on: July 11, 2012, 11:00:52 AM »
Quicken would help out, but it's a bit wonky for Warlock to be honest.  There are caster level limits and crap.  Now that I notice it I think it needs to be looked at in full detail, unless someone has a link to where it has already been done.

There are only three feats that are meta-SLA's: Quicken; Maximize; and Empower.

Maximize and Empower share the same mechanic: you can only take the feat for a SLA that has an effective spell level equal to or less than 1/2 your caster level, -2, as given on the chart for Empower SLA on page 304 of the Monster Manual, and here.
(click to show/hide)
And so on. Basically, you are always at a caster level four lower than you would need for those feats to be put on EB.
RAW, not RAI though, as even their example is of a warlock with Maximize SLA, and most DMs would allow it.
But yes, by RAW you can never qualify for those feats, and Quicken SLA is even worse.
And as far as whether equipment or spells that boost your SLA caster level qualify you for the prerequisite is, as always, up to your DM.
That was fixed in the CA errata. EB is always a level 1 ability, but essences and shapes upgrade it to their levels.
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Offline Silveron

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Re: Warlock - Expert advice needed.
« Reply #35 on: July 11, 2012, 12:03:32 PM »
Anything that will increase your ranged attack accuracy, so long as it isn't a weapon enhancement typically, will work for EB.  From the sound of it you don't want homebrew, in which case I honestly do not know of much that will help you other than some standard tricks.

First, EB is a touch attack, so it ignores most armor bonuses and such.  Right there you have some darn good accuracy for most things.  If you attack from invisibility then you get a +2 on attacks and the enemy is typically flat-footed against the attack, which means lower AC.

Ya for the most part homebrew is out. Minor tweaks might be doable..
Yes I know touch attack is DC to hit is nice and low for the most part, against most monsters should be easy but then add in other races and classes with feats and such that get to add other factors to AC, such as spells, and keeping dex bonus to Touch AC....

Mid to High level it might be possible to play peak-a-boo with creatures every other turn but just like all the focus on hide someone else suggested I just see it as extremely impractical.  I just do not want to have to try to nickel and dime lots of little boosts. I want something more constant, but you did remind me I think I did see something somewhere that did work to boost ray spells, so will have to try to find that and see if it could work for EB.

How much of that guide I linked did you read?

HA!!!! Your funny. I read it, 4 other guides, some that say contradictory things (like useing a soulmeld to counter con dmg instead of binder or useing binder feat instead of takeing level), several sections in too many books about other classes suggested and prestige classes, feats, invocations.... Its all a lovely mixed up jumble of info in my head. I am sorry if your really Thinblade and your insulted I do not know your guide by heart.

As I have said never played Warlock before and with guides saying different things its even more confusing. One of the first things I said was I had planed to get Rapid Shot because one of the guides said it could be used with EB, then next post someone said it can't. Guides are nice but they can be wrong and offten others think up new or better ways to do things and do not happen to write out a whole guide to tell people about it.

I prefer to get my info from people who play the class vs a compilation of all data. As I have also said, I do not want to regret how I set up my warlock after afew levels because what looked like good options to me turned out to be wasted effort that I am now stuck with. It can be really easy to look at guides data and pick things that seem perfect only to not work the way you intended or become obsolete after a few levels or to find out you could of done the same thing with a low cost magic item. More so with feats where you end up being denied many paths because you didn't know about a feat that it is required to be taken at first level.

So thank you for suggesting the guide. I had it bookmarked it before I had made my first post when I had searched for info. I am more interested in practical applications people have used with warlocks they have ran.


That was fixed in the CA errata. EB is always a level 1 ability, but essences and shapes upgrade it to their levels.

NICE! thx Redwarlock

Offline kitep

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Re: Warlock - Expert advice needed.
« Reply #36 on: July 11, 2012, 12:29:48 PM »
Why use Eldritch Glaive and not just Point blank shot, to fire EB at close range?

Your EB is a SLA, which can be used once/round, no matter high high your BAB is.  So even if you somehow how got a BAB 16, you would still only get 1 attack, not 4 attacks at 16/11/6/1.  Eldritch Glaive gives you multiple attacks if your BAB supports it.  But it also changes it to melee, not ranged.  Glaive also lets you make attacks of opportunity, which EB does not, but it sounds like you're trying to avoid getting into a position where AOO is a consideration.

There is a blast shape (Eldritch Chain) which is kinda the equivalent of multiple attacks for a high enough BAB.

Quote
Would Quicken Spell Like Ability allow me to get more attacks?

Looks to me like it would, but you have to be 10th level before you can take it.

And as someone pointed out, if you put an essence or shape on it, it would even be higher level -- makes me wonder if Quicken would cover all uses of EB, or if when you choose Quicken, you would have to specify not just EB but exactly which essences and shapes are applied to the quickened, and then can't change it.

« Last Edit: July 11, 2012, 12:34:03 PM by kitep »

Offline kitep

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Re: Warlock - Expert advice needed.
« Reply #37 on: July 11, 2012, 12:43:24 PM »
I read it, 4 other guides, some that say contradictory things (like useing a soulmeld to counter con dmg instead of binder or useing binder feat instead of takeing level), several sections in too many books about other classes suggested and prestige classes, feats, invocations

Oops.  I know I mentioned taking the feat instead of a level.  But somebody pointed out that with the feat you don't get to pick the power you get and that makes it worthless.  That guy was right.

I also remember reading the guides when I did my warlock.  It can be a big mess, especially when you factor in your own group's rules.  Still, they are a big help.


Offline Silveron

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Re: Warlock - Expert advice needed.
« Reply #38 on: July 11, 2012, 01:05:37 PM »
[Looks to me like it would, but you have to be 10th level before you can take it.

And as someone pointed out, if you put an essence or shape on it, it would even be higher level -- makes me wonder if Quicken would cover all uses of EB, or if when you choose Quicken, you would have to specify not just EB but exactly which essences and shapes are applied to the quickened, and then can't change it.

Ya was thinking Quicken EB with Spear shape, since its level 1 too) for blasting things quickly at long range. If I am Hengeyokai sparrow with 50ft fly movement (to start with) then it should be super easy to keep out of most melee.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2012, 01:09:06 PM by Silveron »

Offline Rebel7284

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Re: Warlock - Expert advice needed.
« Reply #39 on: July 11, 2012, 02:19:56 PM »
Binder 1/Warlock 4/Ur Priest 2/Prestige Class that stacks warlock and divine casting 10/Hellfire Warlock 3

DMM persist divine power to get Full BAB and full attack with eldrich glaive. :D