Author Topic: Lucid Dreaming [Skill/Subsystem]  (Read 5348 times)

Offline phaedrusxy

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Lucid Dreaming [Skill/Subsystem]
« on: September 18, 2012, 10:51:21 PM »


Lucid Dreaming
(Wis)

This skill is one of the few ways a character can enter the dreams of others (and the Region of Dreams, if it exists in your campaign) and the only known way in which he can directly manipulate the dream-matter around him. Full rules for dreaming and the Region of Dreams can be found on p201 of the Manual of the Planes. You can use this skill to realize you are dreaming, wake up, consciously direct the elements of a dream, detect intruders into your dreams, and to move into other dreamscapes. Throughout the discussion of this skill subsystem, the terms Dreamscape, Dreamer and Dreamwalker will be used. A Dreamscape is a virtual plane of existence, which exists within the Plane of Dreams. Each time someone sleeps and dreams, they create a new Dreamscape, which normally dissolves when they awaken. A Dreamwalker is someone who is within the Dreamscape of another (either intentionally or otherwise). A Dreamer is a person within their own Dreamscape.

Most usages of this skill require expenditure of Dream Points. Each Dreamer or Dreamwalker has a number of Dream Points equal to their ranks in Lucid Dreaming, or to their highest mental ability modifer, whichever is higher. Each usage of Lucid Dreaming below has the cost in Dream Points listed. For abilities which have a duration longer than instantaneous, Dream Points spent on them do not return until the effect ends (they remain "invested"). For instantaneous abilities, they return at the end of the Dreamer's turn. A Dreamer can end an ongoing effect that they have Dream Points invested in as a free action on their turn.

Unless otherwise noted, all usages of this skill only affect the dreamworld and the dream personas of creatures in it, and do not carry over into any other reality in any way. However, all information gained and conversations had in dreams touched by the Lucid Dreaming skill will be remembered, as such dreams are always especially vivid to all involved.

Check: Unless otherwise stated, making a Lucid Dreaming check is a standard action that provokes an attack of opportunity. It can be made defensively, so as to avoid drawing attacks of opportunity, by making a concentration check with the same DC as the Lucid Dreaming usage being used.

TaskDCCost (Dream Points)
Realize you are dreaming150
Wake Up150
Change one aspect of your personal dreamscape20Varies (see text)
Change one aspect of another's dreamscape30Varies (see text)
Change your personal appearance201
Instill Doubt*Dreamer's Wisdom modifier
Implant Waking Suggestion155
Locate Dreamer/Dreamwalkervaries, see textvaries, see text
Depart one dreamscape for another255
Depart a dreamscape for the Dreamheart3010
Pull another with you into another dreamscape or the Dreamheart*2 per person
Leave the Dreamheart300
Dream of Times Past, of What May ComeDC varies, see text20
Alter RealityDC varies, see text2x Spell level

* This is an opposed Lucid Dreaming check.

Change Aspect: An aspect of a dreamscape includes background features such as lighting, terrain, architecture of a given building, vegetation (or lack thereof) and other relatively innocuous characteristics of a dreamscape. You cannot use Lucid Dreaming to make a bolt of lightning to strike a foe, or open a pit below an enemy, or other such attacks with this usage of the Lucid Dreaming skill. You could however make a wall appear in front of them to block their path, etc.

You may also create a new level of the Dreamscape which may only be entered by falling asleep in the level immediately above it. The DC for this increases by +5 for each level above the current one. See the rules on Layered Dreams for details on how these lower layers differ from the primary dreamscape.

All uses of this ability are instantaneous in duration. The amount of Dream Points required to make a change depends on how big of an area it will affect. 1 point allows you to affect 1 cubic foot per rank in Lucid Dreaming (minimum 1) which is within close range. 4 points increases this to an area up to 1 foot per rank in Lucid Dreaming in radius, which must still be within close range. 7 points increases the radius to 10 feet per Lucid Dreaming rank, centered up to medium range from you. 10 points increases the radius to 100 feet per Lucid Dreaming rank, and the change can be anywhere within the Dreamscape level within which you currently reside. 13 points lets you make changes which affect the entire Dreamscape level at once. 16 points lets you affect all layers of a Dream at once.

Change Appearance: You can adopt the outward appearance of any other creature or thing. If you want to turn into a palm tree that is completely within your power. Equally, you can take on the exact appearance of any other creature. Other dreamers can make opposed Lucid Dreaming checks to discover the illusion. Changes to your appearance do not affect your actual abilities. This ability costs one Dream Point, which may not be recovered while your appearance is altered using it.

Instill Doubt: While within the dream of another (the Dreamer), a Dreamwalker may make a verbal suggestion to the Dreamer, which can sow seeds of doubt that ripple throughout the Dreamscape in profound ways. The target may resist your suggestion with a Will save with the DC set by your Lucid Dreaming check. This counts as an opposed Lucid Dreaming check, and so will always result in the loss of Stability of the Dreamscape, regardless of the outcome. The Dreamer need not make a Lucid Dreaming check to produce this effect, as it works by manipulating their subconscious mind, which is the true source of all aspects of the Dreamscape (with the exception of any Dreamwalkers present in it). This ability costs an amount of Dream Points equal to the target's Will save modifier and has an instantaneous duration, regardless of the effect produced. Effects created with this usage of Lucid Dreaming do not pass from one Dreamscape to the next, regardless of their normal durations.

Implant Waking Suggestion:
A Dreamwalker may implant a Suggestion (as the spell) which will activate upon the Dreamer's awakening, or under a condition set at the time it is implanted (upon the next full moon, for example). The Dreamer may resist this with a Will save equal to the Dreamwalker's Lucid Dreaming check (or with an opposed Lucid Dreaming check) made just after they awaken from their sleep for the night. Since they are no longer dreaming, they do not get the bonuses for being within their own dreamscape, etc. This usage of Lucid Dreaming costs 5 Dream Points which are not recovered until the Suggestion has been triggered.

Sense Dreamwalker: A Dreamer is entitled to a Lucid Dreaming check anytime a Dreamwalker uses the Lucid Dreaming skill to modify the Dreamer's Dreamscape in any way, even if such changes happen to a part of the Dreamscape that their conscious mind is not currently within. If they succeed at this check, they sense that another mind has intruded their dreams (although they may dismiss this as part of the dream after they wake up if they are not familiar with the ability to Dreamwalk). The DC of this check depends on the magnitude of the effect the Dreamwalker has produced, and whether it is within the view of the Dreamer or not. Effects within view of the Dreamer only have a DC of 10. Effects outside of their view have a DC of 20 for Change Aspect, 30 for Change Appearance, and 25-spell level for Alter Reality. This costs 0 Dream Points.

A Dreamwalker can sense whether they are about to be detected by a Dreamer and may make a special Lucid Dreaming check as an immediate action to avoid detection. The result of their check becomes the DC of the Dreamer's Lucid Dreaming check to detect them, making this an opposed check. As with all opposed checks, this will always result in the loss of Stability of the Dreamscape. Trying to avoid detection in this way costs 1 Dream Point which may not be recovered until you awake and fall back to sleep.

Once a Dreamer succeeds in detecting an invading Dreamwalker within their dreamscape, they are entitled to an immediate Lucid Dreaming check with a +5 bonus to realize that they are dreaming.

Locate Dreamer/Dreamwalker: A Dreamwalker may cast their mind across the Plane of Dreams to find the dream of a specific individual. If the individual that they are searching for is within the same Dreamscape as them, then the DC for this check is only 10 plus the number of dream levels separating them.

If they are in separate dreams, then the base DC is 15, but is modified by the familiarity the Dreamwalker (the person making the check) has for the Dreamer (the person they're trying to find), and by physical distance.

The cost in Dream Points is equal to the total modifier added to the DC.

(click to show/hide)

Depart one dreamscape for another: Once the Dreamwalker has determined which dreamscape they want to enter, they must make another Lucid Dreaming check to travel there. The DC for this is 25, and it costs 5 dream points. Alternatively, they can just enter a random dreamscape (DMs choice) with a DC 20 check and 5 dream points.

Wake Up: A Dreamer who has realized he is dreaming may make a special Lucid Dreaming check every round as a free action with a DC of 15 to wake up, if she wants. This ability costs 0 Dream Points.

Dream of Times Past, Dream of What May Come: A highly proficient dreamwalker may travel into the dreams of the past, or even the future. This usage costs 20 Dream Points. The DC is 40 to travel up to 10 years into the past or future, 45 to travel 10 to 100 years into the past or future, and 50 to travel 100 to 1000 years into the past or future. Due to the potentially disruptive effects of allowing characters to send messages into the past or future via this usage, DMs may decide that such visions seen with this ability are merely "persistent" or "possible" dreamscapes, and are no longer connected to the Dreamers of the actual past or future. So while information may be gleaned from this usage, sending messages is not possible.

Alter Reality: A proficient dreamer or dreamwalker can reproduce spell effects as if using the Alter Reality divine salient ability with a Lucid Dreaming check. The DC is equal to 10+3x the level of the spell desired. The results of this many only affect the Dreamscape (including creatures which are part of the Dream), the Dreamer, and/or any Dreamwalkers present. It may reproduce a Divination or other information-gathering effect, but the results must be either completely fabricated or something which either the Dreamer or one of the Dreamwalkers present already knows (either consciously or subconsciously). This ability costs a number of Dream Points equal to twice the level of the spell being reproduced, and always allows anyone affected by it to resist with a Will save (or opposed Lucid Dreaming check), in addition to any saves normally allowed by the effect.

Dreamers vs Dreamers: Dreamers can actively oppose the activities of other dreamers in both dreamscapes and in the Dreamheart. This is accomplished by opposed Lucid Dreaming checks. A dreamer may always make such a check instead of any other check or saving throw if it is more advantageous for them to do so. A Dreamer may always oppose any Lucid Dreaming check that they are aware of within their Dreamscape, even the effect does not affect them and/or does not normally allow a saving throw or skill check. This costs 0 Dream Points, and is a special usage of the Lucid Dreaming skill which is a free action which may be taken at any time, even if you are flat-footed or it is not your turn.

Note that any opposed Lucid Dreaming check will always lower the Stability score of the dream, as the Dreamer who loses counts as failing a Lucid Dreaming check.

Special: Dreamers gain an insight bonus equal to twice their Charisma modifier (minimum 1) on all Lucid Dreaming checks made within their own Dreamscapes. Dreamers who are aware that they are within a dream gain a circumstance bonus equal to their intelligence modifier (minimum 1) on Lucid Dreaming checks. A dreamer who is within his own dreamscape and aware that he is dreaming receives a synergy bonus equal to the highest mental ability modifier (minimum 1) he has on Lucid Dreaming checks.

Retry: Yes, but you can only make one Lucid Dreaming check each round.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2018, 08:15:14 PM by phaedrusxy »
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Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: Lucid Dreaming
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2012, 10:52:02 PM »

Nightmares and Dreamscapes


The difference between a nightmare and a dream is one of stability and mood. Dreams, although chaotic, are usually less so than nightmares. Nightmares are also inherently hostile to dreamers. In a nightmare, the dreamer's own subconscious turns against them (and anyone else who happens to be in their dreamscape). Each dreamscape has a stability score, which is initially equal to the dreamer's highest ability score modifier (minimum 1). Each time someone fails a Lucid Dreaming check within that Dreamscape, the Dreamscape's stability score decreases by 1.

As the Dreamscape's stability score decreases towards zero, a change in the "mood" of the dream can be noted by all in it (lights grow dimmer, or change in hue to "angry" colors such as red, angles become "off", etc. At a stability of 0, all dream-creatures move 1 category towards Hostile. If the stability score goes below 0, all dream-creatures become Hostile, and their appearances change subtly in negative ways. In addition, every 1d4 rounds an encounter is generated nearby any and all dreamers or dreamwalkers which involves dream-creatures who have nightmarish properties (fiendish template, evil outsider, etc). The Encounter Level is equal to the CR of the dreamer plus 1d10-5.

A negative stability score will return at a rate of 1 per round (in Dream Time) until it again reaches 0. Then it begins to recover at a rate of 1 per minute until it again reaches the value that it started out at. Any actions which further lower the stability of the Dreamscape will inhibit this recovery for 1 round.



Death in Dreams

Old wives' tales tell that if you die in a dream, that you will also die in the "real" world, and although this does occasionally happen, it is rare, especially in one's own dreams. If a dreamer dies in their own dream, they merely awaken as the Dreamscape collapses.

However, Dreamwalkers are at a bit more risk. If they die while in the dream of another, or if the dreamer of the dreamscape they currently reside within awakens, the dreamwalker is ejected from the dream and must roll a 1d10 to determine where he or she ends up. On a roll of 1 through 5 they wake up, on a result of 6-9 they are thrown into another nearby dreamscape. On a roll of 10, they are ejected into the Dreamheart itself, where if they die then they will also die in the waking world.


Layered Dreams
Some dreams may contain sub-layers, which are basically dreams within dreams, that can only be accessed by falling asleep in the layer above them. These may be created by Dreamwalkers using the Lucid Dreaming skill, or may arise spontaneously whenever the Dreamer falls asleep within his own dream.

The DC for the Dreamer to detect changes to a sublayer for which he is not currently awake within increases by +5 times the number of layers he is removed from it. So if a Dreamwalker enters the Dream of another, and creates two sublayers, which he then passes through, any changes he then makes within the 3rd layer of the dream would have a +10 to the DC for the Dreamer (in the 1st layer) to detect them.

A Dreamwalker may try to pull others who are within the layer directly above them into the layer in which they currently reside. This works much like trying to pull them into an adjacent Dreamscape, except that the range is the adjacent dream layer. If the Dreamwalker successfully pulls the target into his or her layer, the target falls asleep in the layer they currently reside in and appears (awake) adjacent to the Dreamwalker in the next lower layer.

The lowest reaches of a Dreamer's own dreams are an alien and unfamiliar place, deep within their own subconscious, which they have little or no control over. All bonuses for Lucid Dreaming checks made within ones own dreams are reduced by 5 for every layer below the first the Dreamer is within, to a minimum of 0.

Each layer of the Dreamscape has a faster timeframe than the one above it. For each round passing in a Dreamscape, 10 rounds pass within the layer just beneath it. This means that for each round in the real world, 100 rounds pass within the second layer of a Dreamscape, and 1000 rounds pass for the third layer. Time slows to a crawl as you go further down, and you may subjectively spend an eternity within the lowest reaches of a Dreamscape within the span of a night.


The Dreamheart
Rules for the Dreamheart are layed out in the Manual of the Planes. As a slight modification to those rules, encounters which occur in the Dreamheart are considered "real", as death is real there. So PCs receive experience points for defeating them, any spell slots or magic item charges they use are actually used up in the corresponding real items (or minds), and any information gained via Divination effects is real, including that produced via the Alter Reality usage of the Lucid Dreaming skill.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2012, 01:06:01 PM by phaedrusxy »
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Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: Lucid Dreaming
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2012, 10:52:59 PM »
Magic Items

Dreamcatcher
This small hoop, which is typically between 3 and 12 inches in diameter, is criss-crossed by a network of yarn or thread in a spiderweb pattern. Beads, feathers, and other trinkets hang off of it from strands of leather. It is rumored to protect those who sleep near it from nightmares and evil spirits who might haunt their dreams.

Benefits
Any creature who sleeps within 10 feet of a Dreamcatcher has their dreams warded against intruders and nightmares. All Lucid Dreaming checks made by Dreamwalkers (but not the Dreamer himself) within the Dreamer's Dreamscape receive a -10 penalty. In addition, it becomes impossible to force the Dreamer into another Dreamscape or into the Dreamheart while they are protected by a Dreamcatcher.

Market Price
350 gold pieces

Prerequisites to make
Protection from Evil, 4 ranks in Lucid Dreaming
« Last Edit: September 18, 2012, 11:19:47 PM by phaedrusxy »
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Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: Lucid Dreaming [Skill/Subsystem]
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2012, 10:05:17 AM »
Feats

Dreamtelling: Instead of Knowledge (Planes), characters may instead use the Lucid Dreaming skill to determine the effects of this feat.

The Oneiromancy feat does not cause you to die in the waking world if you are killed in a dream. Feats should not have such substantial drawbacks.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2012, 07:28:49 PM by phaedrusxy »
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Offline OldManAlexi

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Re: Lucid Dreaming [Skill/Subsystem]
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2012, 01:54:11 AM »
I really like this idea but I have a couple points for you to think on.

First, the Locate Dreamer ability does not give a dream point cost.  The table indicates that its supposed to be variable based on the same factors as the DC but the text only lists the DC. 

Second, I was wondering why the time viewing ability is only available at high level?  Delving into the world of dreams to discover some ancient secret seems like a cool plot hook.  However, by the time you reach level 17, the wizard probably has a spell for it... Hindsight is 9th level but so that's available at the same level.   Actually, Alter Reality to cast Hindsight would cost two points less. 

Third, I would consider adding some way to regain dream points.  Even if the dreamer stays in the first layer of the dream, 8 hours of sleep equals 80 hours of dream time.  Maybe the dreamer regains a number of dream points equal to his/her Wisdom modifier every hour of dream time.  Might also include a way to increase number of dream points.  A feat that gives a +2 to the skill and grants a couple extra points? 

Fourth, items.  An incense that makes everyone in the room enter the same dreamscape so the party wouldn't need to spend dream points to all jump into the same dream.  It would probably require Lucid Dreaming checks to see whose dreamscape it was.  Might also give bonuses to checks and dream points, depending on the quality of the incense.  It would probably be an alchemical item to make it cheap enough to be used repeatedly.  That or a magical item that is used by burning a few cheap herbs in it.  Also, might want to include a few magic items to boost the dreaming skill.

Sounds like I've given you a lot to work on.  Okay, one more quick one.  Fifth, do you get bonuses or penalties to Lucid Dreaming checks while in the Dreamheart? 

Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: Lucid Dreaming [Skill/Subsystem]
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2012, 02:36:06 AM »
I really like this idea but I have a couple points for you to think on.

First, the Locate Dreamer ability does not give a dream point cost.  The table indicates that its supposed to be variable based on the same factors as the DC but the text only lists the DC.
It's in there.
Quote
Locate Dreamer/Dreamwalker: A Dreamwalker may cast their mind across the Plane of Dreams to find the dream of a specific individual. If the individual that they are searching for is within the same Dreamscape as them, then the DC for this check is only 10 plus the number of dream levels separating them.

If they are in separate dreams, then the DC is based on the familiarity the Dreamwalker (the person making the check) has for the Dreamer (the person they're trying to find). If they are intimate friend, then the DC is only 15. For close friends, the DC is 17. For less well known friends and associates, the DC is 20. For someone they've seen only once (including via Scrying), the DC is 25. For someone they've only heard of, the DC is 30.

Quote
Second, I was wondering why the time viewing ability is only available at high level?  Delving into the world of dreams to discover some ancient secret seems like a cool plot hook.  However, by the time you reach level 17, the wizard probably has a spell for it... Hindsight is 9th level but so that's available at the same level.   Actually, Alter Reality to cast Hindsight would cost two points less. 
It's because you can use this for more than information gathering. You could actually alter the past with this, in the "full blown" version, by communicating with dreamers in the past and telling them about the future, Suggesting things to them, etc. If you go with the alternate version, where the dreams you enter aren't actually connected to dreamers still in the past/future, then I guess it would be OK to lower the level of this effect.

Quote
Third, I would consider adding some way to regain dream points.  Even if the dreamer stays in the first layer of the dream, 8 hours of sleep equals 80 hours of dream time.  Maybe the dreamer regains a number of dream points equal to his/her Wisdom modifier every hour of dream time.  Might also include a way to increase number of dream points.  A feat that gives a +2 to the skill and grants a couple extra points?
They're regained at the end of your round, or as soon as the ongoing effect they're tied up in is ended.
Quote
For abilities which have a duration longer than instantaneous, Dream Points spent on them do not return until the effect ends (they remain "invested"). For instantaneous abilities, they return at the end of the Dreamer's turn.

Quote
Fourth, items.  An incense that makes everyone in the room enter the same dreamscape so the party wouldn't need to spend dream points to all jump into the same dream.  It would probably require Lucid Dreaming checks to see whose dreamscape it was.  Might also give bonuses to checks and dream points, depending on the quality of the incense.  It would probably be an alchemical item to make it cheap enough to be used repeatedly.  That or a magical item that is used by burning a few cheap herbs in it.  Also, might want to include a few magic items to boost the dreaming skill.
Since you get the points back immediately, there really isn't much of a "cost" for just using the skill to bring in partymates, except for the time it takes, which shouldn't matter in most cases, as you're all asleep anyway. So hopefully you're safe... ;) I'll consider it, though. Such an item should be relatively cheap.

Quote
Sounds like I've given you a lot to work on.  Okay, one more quick one.  Fifth, do you get bonuses or penalties to Lucid Dreaming checks while in the Dreamheart?
Nope. It's not your dream, so no bonuses from that, and I hadn't planned on giving any. I don' think WotC did in the original MotP writeup, either.
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Offline Garryl

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Re: Lucid Dreaming [Skill/Subsystem]
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2012, 03:39:55 AM »
I really like this idea but I have a couple points for you to think on.

First, the Locate Dreamer ability does not give a dream point cost.  The table indicates that its supposed to be variable based on the same factors as the DC but the text only lists the DC.
It's in there.
Quote
Locate Dreamer/Dreamwalker: A Dreamwalker may cast their mind across the Plane of Dreams to find the dream of a specific individual. If the individual that they are searching for is within the same Dreamscape as them, then the DC for this check is only 10 plus the number of dream levels separating them.

If they are in separate dreams, then the DC is based on the familiarity the Dreamwalker (the person making the check) has for the Dreamer (the person they're trying to find). If they are intimate friend, then the DC is only 15. For close friends, the DC is 17. For less well known friends and associates, the DC is 20. For someone they've seen only once (including via Scrying), the DC is 25. For someone they've only heard of, the DC is 30.

Alexi's remarking that the dream point cost is missing, not the DC.

Quote
Quote
Fourth, items.  An incense that makes everyone in the room enter the same dreamscape so the party wouldn't need to spend dream points to all jump into the same dream.  It would probably require Lucid Dreaming checks to see whose dreamscape it was.  Might also give bonuses to checks and dream points, depending on the quality of the incense.  It would probably be an alchemical item to make it cheap enough to be used repeatedly.  That or a magical item that is used by burning a few cheap herbs in it.  Also, might want to include a few magic items to boost the dreaming skill.
Since you get the points back immediately, there really isn't much of a "cost" for just using the skill to bring in partymates, except for the time it takes, which shouldn't matter in most cases, as you're all asleep anyway. So hopefully you're safe... ;) I'll consider it, though. Such an item should be relatively cheap.

That's a cool item, period, especially when dealing with a party not consisting entirely of lucid dreamers as it would let them coordinate more easily. It's (usually) not possible to get everyone into the same dreamscape until level 4 at the earliest due to the dream point cost.

On a related note, how much would an item cost that gave you a +5 bonus (or whatever number) on lucid dreaming checks and some number of extra dream points, but only while in your own dreamscape?

Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: Lucid Dreaming [Skill/Subsystem]
« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2018, 08:15:59 PM »
bump to get this to be the upper most sticky :P
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