Author Topic: Look at this thing I found in Pathfinder! The bad feats/spells/etc thread  (Read 59596 times)

Offline zook1shoe

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Re: Look at this Pathfinder feat I found!
« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2012, 05:21:39 PM »
some of these feats seem to be even worse than the commoner flaws, like Dead or Peasant Hat :-p
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Offline jetstrike

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Re: Look at this Pathfinder feat I found!
« Reply #21 on: November 07, 2012, 02:48:41 PM »
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/elephant-stomp-combat

(click to show/hide)

I probably shouldn't have bothered bolding anything, the entire paragraph is basically pure fail.


Overrun is an action which can be done as part of a charge. Elephant stomp lets you make an attack with the mount whilst charging. It is mostly used for a charge build character like a paladin.

Offline Empirate

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Re: Look at this Pathfinder feat I found!
« Reply #22 on: November 08, 2012, 04:30:21 AM »
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/elephant-stomp-combat

(click to show/hide)

I probably shouldn't have bothered bolding anything, the entire paragraph is basically pure fail.


Overrun is an action which can be done as part of a charge. Elephant stomp lets you make an attack with the mount whilst charging. It is mostly used for a charge build character like a paladin.

What? Can't you already attack with the mount when charging?

Quote from: Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document
If your mount charges, you also take the AC penalty associated with a charge. If you make an attack at the end of the charge, you receive the bonus gained from the charge. When charging on horseback, you deal double damage with a lance (see Charge).

This pretty clearly implies that your mount can charge, and you have the option of also making an attack at the end of its charge, which then functions as if you had charged yourself. If your mount can charge, it also gains an attack at the end of its charge.

Elephant Stomp just wastes a feat, and that's that.

Offline McBeardly

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Re: Look at this thing I found in Pathfinder! The bad feats thread
« Reply #23 on: November 08, 2012, 05:31:14 AM »
This is not to defend paizo for being incompetent (lord knows there are enough idiots doing that on their boards), but I think the intent of elephant stop is that your overrun knocks them down then you attack instead of moving past them. I say this simply because the flavor text references your opponent being downed. Then it's just a less useful version of tripping that doesn't require combat expertise.

Offline Empirate

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Re: Look at this thing I found in Pathfinder! The bad feats thread
« Reply #24 on: November 08, 2012, 09:49:12 AM »
If that's the intent, then they should try proofreading from time to time: "...instead of moving through your opponent's space and knocking her prone..."
Clear-cut. Unfortunately.

Offline zook1shoe

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Re: Look at this thing I found in Pathfinder! The bad feats thread
« Reply #25 on: November 08, 2012, 10:26:34 AM »
It should have read "in addition to" is what empirate was trying to say
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Offline Libertad

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Re: Look at this thing I found in Pathfinder! The bad feats thread
« Reply #26 on: March 20, 2013, 04:25:41 PM »
Alternate class feature for Barbarian, replaces Fast Movement:

Quote
Raging Drunk (Ex)

While raging, the drunken brute can drink a potion, or a tankard of ale or similar quantity of alcohol, as a move action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity. A potion has its normal effect, while an alcoholic drink allows the barbarian to maintain her rage that round without expending a round of rage for the day (instead of the alcohol’s normal effects). For each alcoholic drink consumed while raging, the barbarian is nauseated for 1 round when her rage expires, in addition the normal fatigue that follows a rage. Tireless rage does not negate this nauseated condition but the internal fortitude rage power does.

Offline rasmuswagner

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Re: Look at this thing I found in Pathfinder! The bad feats thread
« Reply #27 on: March 21, 2013, 02:00:29 AM »
Alternate class feature for Barbarian, replaces Fast Movement:

Raging Drunk (Ex)

That's not terrible, if you don't have multiple attacks anyway. There are other abilities that key off in-combat drinking. Most (but, iirc, not all of them) are terrible.

Offline Yirrare

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Re: Look at this Pathfinder feat I found!
« Reply #28 on: March 21, 2013, 06:46:34 AM »
Yeah, Helpless Prisoner and Death or Glory are also tremendous low points.  People claim 3E is more trap laiden, but it is actuall PF that literally punishes you for making the wrong feat choice.  In 3E, the punishment was only getting 3 measly hp."  In PF, you're actually harmed.

Researching the Blot...
If that was written for a 3E D&D supplement, back when spellcraft didn't let you ID items on its own, I could see that being useful.  But since it uses the PF trait system...I doubt that's the case... Wow...
I seem to miss something. How is helpless prisoner always bad?
It's almost never useful, but you make it sound like it actually makes my character worse (as in, I'd be better off gaining no feat than gaining helpless prisoner).
Could someone clarify/point out what I am missing please?

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Yirrare

Offline Prime32

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Re: Look at this thing I found in Pathfinder! The bad feats thread
« Reply #29 on: March 21, 2013, 01:22:48 PM »
Raging Drunk can be improved by the Fast Drinker feat... at least it could if it wasn't for the monk/barbarian alignment restrictions. The there's Good For What Ails You and the Tankard of the Drunken Hero.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2013, 01:33:28 PM by Prime32 »

Offline Nytemare3701

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Re: Look at this thing I found in Pathfinder! The bad feats thread
« Reply #30 on: March 21, 2013, 01:36:43 PM »
Quote
Raging Drunk (Ex)

While raging, the drunken brute can drink a potion, or a tankard of ale or similar quantity of alcohol, as a move action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity. A potion has its normal effect, while an alcoholic drink allows the barbarian to maintain her rage that round without expending a round of rage for the day (instead of the alcohol’s normal effects). For each alcoholic drink consumed while raging, the barbarian is nauseated for 1 round when her rage expires, in addition the normal fatigue that follows a rage. Tireless rage does not negate this nauseated condition but the internal fortitude rage power does.


Emphasis mine

Quote
fast drinker
Drinking strong alcohol to gain temporary ki, takes a swift action rather than a standard action.

Entirely stupid, but the drunken ki feature is a special action taking a standard action, while the drunken rager ability is a completely different special action (taking a move action). Fast Drinker does not apply to drunken rager, as much as it really should.
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Offline Halinn

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Re: Look at this thing I found in Pathfinder! The bad feats thread
« Reply #31 on: March 22, 2013, 10:21:02 AM »
Raging Drunk is pretty worthless as written, but it's a nice starting point for arguing with your DM to make Quick Draw turn it into a free action, in which case it becomes an okay option (you shouldn't run out of barbarian rages after level 5 or so anyways, but it's nice not having to worry about counting rounds)

Offline Libertad

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Quote
CREATE PIT
School conjuration (creation); Level sorcerer/wizard 2, summoner 2
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, F (miniature shovel costing 10 gp)
Range medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Effect 10-ft.-by-10-ft. hole, 10 ft. deep/2 levels
Duration 1 round + 1 round/level
Saving Throw Reflex negates; Spell Resistance no

You create a 10-foot-by-10-foot extradimensional hole with a depth of 10 feet per two caster levels (maximum 30 feet). You must create the pit on a horizontal surface of sufficient size. Since it extends into another dimension, the pit has no weight and does not otherwise displace the original underlying material. You can create the pit in the deck of a ship as easily as in a dungeon floor or the ground of a forest. Any creature standing in the area where you first conjured the pit must make a Reflex saving throw to jump to safety in the nearest open space. In addition, the edges of the pit are sloped, and any creature ending its turn on a square adjacent to the pit must make a Reflex saving throw with a +2 bonus to avoid falling into it. Creatures subjected to an effect intended to push them into the pit (such as bull rush) do not get a saving throw to avoid falling in if they are affected by the pushing effect.

Creatures who fall into the pit take falling damage as normal. The pit's coarse stone walls have a Climb DC of 25. When the duration of the spell ends, creatures within the hole rise up with the bottom of the pit until they are standing on the surface over the course of a single round.

Still pissed about Glitterdust getting nerfed?  Here, have a new Save or Suck spell to make up for it.

Offline Garryl

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Extradimensional space? Your targets better hope they aren't using Handy Haversacks!

Offline StreamOfTheSky

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I have actually seen Paizils argue that, as an extradimensional space, you can't teleport out of it.  Which may in fact be true, but just makes the spell completely ridiculous.  Becomes a "have flight, or GTFO" ability at that point.

EDIT: I suppose Helpless Prisoner doesn't technically make you worse day-to-day and is just literally useless instead of 3E toughness which is "useless."  When I say a feat is worse than useless, I work with the assumption that someone who takes it actually wants to / tries to use it.  I really don't think anyone intentionally declares, "My character doesn't NEED feats, so I'm going to take this one that does nothing!"  Now, there is the "spell mastery argument" (a DM of someone w/ SM gets the idea to steal the spellbook / thinks its less harsh to do so and is thus encouraged to do so; so for a PC w/ helpless prisoner, the DM is more encouraged subconsciously to put the PC in a prisoner status), but leaving that aside...  If a PC *were* captured, and *did* have this feat, and *did not* realize how bad it is, he would probably try to use it.  And then the feat would become worse than not having it at all.

That was my reasoning.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2013, 10:43:26 AM by StreamOfTheSky »

Offline Yirrare

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I have actually seen Paizils argue that, as an extradimensional space, you can't teleport out of it.  Which may in fact be true, but just makes the spell completely ridiculous.  Becomes a "have flight, or GTFO" ability at that point.

EDIT: I suppose Helpless Prisoner doesn't technically make you worse day-to-day and is just literally useless instead of 3E toughness which is "useless."  When I say a feat is worse than useless, I work with the assumption that someone who takes it actually wants to / tries to use it.  I really don't think anyone intentionally declares, "My character doesn't NEED feats, so I'm going to take this one that does nothing!"  Now, there is the "spell mastery argument" (a DM of someone w/ SM gets the idea to steal the spellbook / thinks its less harsh to do so and is thus encouraged to do so; so for a PC w/ helpless prisoner, the DM is more encouraged subconsciously to put the PC in a prisoner status), but leaving that aside...  If a PC *were* captured, and *did* have this feat, and *did not* realize how bad it is, he would probably try to use it.  And then the feat would become worse than not having it at all.

That was my reasoning.
Ok. Thanks for the clarification.

Best Regards
Yirrare

Offline Snowbluff

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Re: Look at this Pathfinder feat I found!
« Reply #36 on: April 23, 2013, 12:56:32 AM »
Why wouldn't you just... attack them?

Yes, that's why it's so much fail, basically.  You spend all those feats to be an uber juggernaut bitch, use a standard or charge (ie, basically all your offensive action for the round) to over run, win it by 5+, which is HARD to do in PF.... and throw away the normal benefit (moving through space and making them prone) in order to waste your immediate action to make an attack w/ a limited weapon selection.  Instead of attacking / vital striking / charging (pouncing) / full attacking / etc... to begin with.
And keeping your immediate!

God, this is like "explaining the joke".
It gets worse.

Improved Overrun is an awful feat if you just want to get around the guy. Normally when you overrun the guy has an option to just let you run past. This would let you get somewhere you need to be without risking your movement on a roll every time. Sure, it's up to the DM how often this would happen, but it kind of let's you get around a lot more easily. The feat says the person has a make an opposed check every time.

The extra feat you showed us increases the chance you will not get past the person you are trying to overrun even further.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2013, 05:36:10 PM by Snowbluff »
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Offline Libertad

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Re: Look at this thing I found in Pathfinder! The bad feats/spells/etc thread
« Reply #37 on: November 05, 2013, 08:41:53 PM »
Quote
Caustic Slur
Prerequisites: Bluff 1 rank, favored enemy class feature, gnome.

Benefit: As a standard action, you can make a Bluff check against one sort of favored enemy. Any creature of that type within 60 feet of you must make a Will saving throw or become angered. If an affected creature attacks you, it's treated as if it were using Power Attack (taking a penalty on attack rolls but gaining a bonus on damage rolls). If the creature already has the power attack feat, the attack penalty increases by 1 and the damage bonus increases by 2. These modifiers end when combat ends. This ability does not work on creatures that cannot understand you, though sometimes a simple gesture is sufficient for an intelligent opponent to catch your gist regardless of any language barrier.

So you use this feat and grant your enemy the benefit of Power Attack.  I don't know what to say.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2013, 08:45:46 PM by Libertad »

Offline Sinfire Titan

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Re: Look at this thing I found in Pathfinder! The bad feats/spells/etc thread
« Reply #38 on: November 05, 2013, 08:50:54 PM »
Quote
Caustic Slur
Prerequisites: Bluff 1 rank, favored enemy class feature, gnome.

Benefit: As a standard action, you can make a Bluff check against one sort of favored enemy. Any creature of that type within 60 feet of you must make a Will saving throw or become angered. If an affected creature attacks you, it's treated as if it were using Power Attack (taking a penalty on attack rolls but gaining a bonus on damage rolls). If the creature already has the power attack feat, the attack penalty increases by 1 and the damage bonus increases by 2. These modifiers end when combat ends. This ability does not work on creatures that cannot understand you, though sometimes a simple gesture is sufficient for an intelligent opponent to catch your gist regardless of any language barrier.

So you use this feat and grant your enemy the benefit of Power Attack.  I don't know what to say.

Saw the thread on GitP about this one, holy shit this is a stupid feat.

How did Paizo ever compete with 4E again?
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Online Raineh Daze

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Re: Look at this thing I found in Pathfinder! The bad feats/spells/etc thread
« Reply #39 on: November 05, 2013, 09:06:36 PM »
Quote
Caustic Slur
Prerequisites: Bluff 1 rank, favored enemy class feature, gnome.

Benefit: As a standard action, you can make a Bluff check against one sort of favored enemy. Any creature of that type within 60 feet of you must make a Will saving throw or become angered. If an affected creature attacks you, it's treated as if it were using Power Attack (taking a penalty on attack rolls but gaining a bonus on damage rolls). If the creature already has the power attack feat, the attack penalty increases by 1 and the damage bonus increases by 2. These modifiers end when combat ends. This ability does not work on creatures that cannot understand you, though sometimes a simple gesture is sufficient for an intelligent opponent to catch your gist regardless of any language barrier.

So you use this feat and grant your enemy the benefit of Power Attack.  I don't know what to say.

So rangers now exist to free up feat slots for the rest of the world (including party, potentially)? Wonderful. /sarcasm
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