Author Topic: Look at this thing I found in Pathfinder! The bad feats/spells/etc thread  (Read 64769 times)

Offline Power

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New feat courtesy of Planar Adventures!
Quote
PEACE OF MIND (CONDUIT)
Source Planar Adventures pg. 31
The blissful peace of Nirvana is never more than a thought away from your mind.

Prerequisites: Knowledge (planes) 3 ranks.

Benefit: As an immediate action when you fail a saving throw against an emotion, fear, or pain effect, you can ignore the effect and instead become dazed for an amount of time equal to twice the duration of the original effect. Any nonlethal damage you would have taken from the original effect is reduced to its minimum value (as though a 1 had been rolled on all dice). You cannot activate this ability if you are currently dazed.

You can use this feat’s benefit once per day, plus an additional time per day for every 5 ranks you have in Knowledge (planes).

I think the only good use of this is against spells with instantaneous durations or if you somehow develop daze immunity. There might be a few cases where the regular condition is worse than daze (confusion?), but even then the doubled duration makes it a dubious proposition. For the most part this feat's effect is much worse than what that spell was going to do to you.

Offline ketaro

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I'd rather be panicked and escaping danger than dazed and being murdered uncontested  :lol

Offline Raineh Daze

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Wow, that's impressively stupid.
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Offline linklord231

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Oh, and there's a limited number of uses per day.  Not that you'd survive the first use anyway  :lmao
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Offline SorO_Lost

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Oh, and there's a limited number of uses per day.
Well you wouldn't want it to be overpowered right?

Offline Keldar

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At least it actually does something.  That thing is incredibly stupid, but it does do it!

Offline Power

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There's an open argument to be had whether it would've been better if it didn't do anything at all though. Using it seems much worse than not using it.

Offline Maelphaxerazz

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There is at least a couple of cases where it might be useful: Phantasmal Killer and Weird are Fear effects, and being dazed is better than dying instantly.

Still an awful feat, of course.

Offline Power

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Those were the exact spells I was referring to when I spoke of spells with instantaneous duration, but it's an open question as technically speaking effects with a duration of instantaneous are interpreted to be permanent effects.

Offline Nanshork

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Those were the exact spells I was referring to when I spoke of spells with instantaneous duration, but it's an open question as technically speaking effects with a duration of instantaneous are interpreted to be permanent effects.

Eh, even then a 6th level paladin could remove it and since the feat isn't a curse, disease, or poison the removal is permanent.

Offline Power

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Maybe so, but failing saves vs Phantasmal Killer is pretty hard, unless they really cheesed DCs and added a Persistent Spell metamagic on top, not to mention Pathfinder GMs tend to never use that kind of ability on players. This isn't the old D&D where you throw around save-or-die, permanent level drain, and others kinds of serious hazards at players. Today's Pathfinder GMs will fudge dice if they're worried their monster has been critting too often.

Offline Nanshork

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I didn't say that it made the feat good, I just said that being permanently dazed isn't something to worry about.   :p

Also we have different kinds of Pathfinder GMs.

Offline SorO_Lost

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Also we have different kinds of Pathfinder GMs.
It's probably a generational gap.

Remember Gygax's love of murderous dungeons that killed players for arbitrary reasons?
By 3rd, the Red Hand of Doom simply penalized players for not keeping up with everything.
And by 5th, players hands are held. They can completely skip fights or even trivialize campaign bosses (Tiamat takes like five rounds to use her stat block, most of ToEE's guys auto die vs disarm), heck one of the best weapons in 5th is obtained by not killing someone. >.>

Offline Raineh Daze

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heck one of the best weapons in 5th is obtained by not killing someone. >.>

I see nothing wrong with that one, particularly thrown against the unexpected. Player murder isn't always the cruellest option. :p
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Offline Power

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Re: Look at this thing I found in Pathfinder! The bad feats/spells/etc thread
« Reply #174 on: September 28, 2018, 06:01:52 AM »
Found another feat in Villain Codex
Quote
POSITION OF STRENGTH
Source Villain Codex pg. 188
You know how to press your advantage when negotiating with noncombatants.

Prerequisites: Intimidate 5 ranks.

Benefit: As long as you are wielding one or more weapons with which you are proficient, you gain a +4 bonus on Intimidate checks against unarmed creatures, which doesn’t stack with Intimidating Prowess. Additionally, if you successfully use Intimidate to demoralize an unarmed creature, that creature becomes shaken for as long as you continue to be armed and they continue not to be, to a maximum of 1 minute. Creatures with natural attacks, or whose unarmed strikes deal lethal damage, are considered to be armed for the purposes of this feat.

Another one of those "here's a feat to allow you to do what the GM would've let you do without the feat before it existed" additions that only serves as a nerf to make things worse.

Offline zook1shoe

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Re: Look at this thing I found in Pathfinder! The bad feats/spells/etc thread
« Reply #175 on: October 01, 2018, 08:15:05 PM »
75% of the things you face aren't even affected by the feat, not including the stuff immune to mind affecting
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Offline Nanshork

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Re: Look at this thing I found in Pathfinder! The bad feats/spells/etc thread
« Reply #176 on: October 01, 2018, 10:24:47 PM »
Found another feat in Villain Codex
Quote
POSITION OF STRENGTH
Source Villain Codex pg. 188
You know how to press your advantage when negotiating with noncombatants.

Prerequisites: Intimidate 5 ranks.

Benefit: As long as you are wielding one or more weapons with which you are proficient, you gain a +4 bonus on Intimidate checks against unarmed creatures, which doesn’t stack with Intimidating Prowess. Additionally, if you successfully use Intimidate to demoralize an unarmed creature, that creature becomes shaken for as long as you continue to be armed and they continue not to be, to a maximum of 1 minute. Creatures with natural attacks, or whose unarmed strikes deal lethal damage, are considered to be armed for the purposes of this feat.

Another one of those "here's a feat to allow you to do what the GM would've let you do without the feat before it existed" additions that only serves as a nerf to make things worse.

To be fair, I wouldn't grant ad-hoc bonuses for trying to intimidate someone just because they're unarmed unless against someone with only NPC classes.  Adventurer's shouldn't be easily intimidated automatically just because they don't happen to be armed.

Offline zook1shoe

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Re: Look at this thing I found in Pathfinder! The bad feats/spells/etc thread
« Reply #177 on: October 01, 2018, 10:35:07 PM »
Agreed
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Offline Nanashi

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Re: Look at this thing I found in Pathfinder! The bad feats/spells/etc thread
« Reply #178 on: November 02, 2018, 09:41:01 PM »
Let's see on Peace of Mind...
It doesn't do anything to (Mind-Affecting) stuff, which would actually be usable (not good, but usable) since "stay there useless" is still better than "kill your friends".

Uh... Magical traps? You can generally afford to wait those out. Too bad Sepia Snake Sigil would be worse (you're inactive twice as long but still need to eat) and for some reason, conjuration (creation) (and Temporal Stasis with the same effect is transmutation.). I recall at least one Phantasmal Killer trap in an AP, but even that causes issues (what's twice instant?).

Edit: Found a real stinker: Vestment of the Champion. Personal only magic vestment at a reduced level for Paladin is a reasonable idea, but it's minutes/level instead of hours (not even 10 mins/level!). When you first get it it's a mere +1 to AC (+2 if you have magical knack) that doesn't stack with existing magic armor (which you should have by level 7). At hours per level it would at least make enemy anti-Paladins slightly more durable (If he has a shield and cast it twice that's +4 AC without giving the party loot), but at minutes it's useless.

Edit: Another one: Witchlight Lantern. It glows if it's within 30 feet of a magic aura... and doesn't exclude the holder's gear... or the party... or any active buffs. As written it's an Everburning Hooded Lantern at over 35 times the cost (worse if you cast it yourself). One use I can see for it is to hang it in a check point staffed by mundanes. Lets them see whenever someone enters that is either a caster or carrying magic items. Use this to enforce permits on magic and it will pay for itself reasonably quick.

Edit: Villain Codex has a group of scamsters with some very inefficent scams. Caravan Master's Wagon is a mundane wagon with hidden compartment dependent upon a 20,000 GP portable hole (because people who can afford that transport goods in wagons...).  The efficiency of a Sucker's Barrel (Barrel that costs 2 extra GP and holds 75% while weighing the full amount) is dubious, especially since the scam is obvious once the container is empty so only travelers can not immediately be lynched.

Fool's Gold just plain old won't work, at least not on coins. We can start with that it's an illusion spell and all real world coins I know of, modern or historical, had different types of coins be different shape and size. I'm sure that would still be standard in a fantasy world where changing colors of things is a basic mages trick. The spell does work on art objects, but half the word count was spent on coins.  It's also much more traceable (throw some "gold" coins in a sack and wondering why there's copper ones in it latter vs. buying a gold candlestick and see it turn to copper an hour latter)
« Last Edit: November 30, 2018, 08:25:59 PM by Nanashi »

Offline Power

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Re: Look at this thing I found in Pathfinder! The bad feats/spells/etc thread
« Reply #179 on: November 10, 2019, 09:37:39 PM »
Wow. It's been a full year since the last time this thread got bumped. I know there has been a lot more trash released in-between then and now. Anyway, time for a discovery from Ultimate Wilderness:
Quote
NATURE'S WEAPONS
Source Ultimate Wilderness pg. 116
You can make a weapon out of nearly anything that can be found in the wild.

Prerequisites: Catch Off-Guard; base attack bonus +2; Knowledge (nature) or Survival 2 ranks.

Benefit: You can turn nearly anything you might find in the wilderness into an improvised melee weapon. This improvised melee weapon is one-handed and deals 1d6 points of damage for Medium creatures and 1d4 for Small creatures. Depending on the weapon, it deals bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing damage (at the GM’s discretion). Grabbing an object to use as a weapon is the same action as drawing a weapon. The weapon must be of a material that is naturally occurring in that terrain.

I'm pretty sure you can already use sticks and stones as terrible improvised weapons with the Catch Off-Guard feat alone. The only thing this does is let you draw naturally occurring objects or materials from terrain with Quick Draw or as part of a charge.

Edit: Found a real stinker: Vestment of the Champion. Personal only magic vestment at a reduced level for Paladin is a reasonable idea, but it's minutes/level instead of hours (not even 10 mins/level!). When you first get it it's a mere +1 to AC (+2 if you have magical knack) that doesn't stack with existing magic armor (which you should have by level 7). At hours per level it would at least make enemy anti-Paladins slightly more durable (If he has a shield and cast it twice that's +4 AC without giving the party loot), but at minutes it's useless.
The Versatile Weapon spell has the same issue. It's Greater Magic Weapon with minutes/lvl duration instead of hours/lvl. The only bright side to this is that it lets you bypass piercing/slashing/bludgeoning/silver/cold iron, that you can cast it on natural weapons and unarmed strikes, and that Bards and Rangers get Versatile Weapon as a 2nd-level spell while they don't get either of the Magic Weapon spells. But the duration is still pretty terrible.

Quote
Edit: Another one: Witchlight Lantern. It glows if it's within 30 feet of a magic aura... and doesn't exclude the holder's gear... or the party... or any active buffs. As written it's an Everburning Hooded Lantern at over 35 times the cost (worse if you cast it yourself). One use I can see for it is to hang it in a check point staffed by mundanes. Lets them see whenever someone enters that is either a caster or carrying magic items. Use this to enforce permits on magic and it will pay for itself reasonably quick.
It seems like even Misdirection and Magic Aura wouldn't work on that. That is one awkward item.

Quote
Edit: Villain Codex has a group of scamsters with some very inefficent scams. Caravan Master's Wagon is a mundane wagon with hidden compartment dependent upon a 20,000 GP portable hole (because people who can afford that transport goods in wagons...).  The efficiency of a Sucker's Barrel (Barrel that costs 2 extra GP and holds 75% while weighing the full amount) is dubious, especially since the scam is obvious once the container is empty so only travelers can not immediately be lynched.
Honestly if you want to scam the Pathfinder economy just play a Negotiator Bard and start scamming people with Fast Talk or glamors. Or even more simply just cast Glibness and let people believe whatever you're selling is whatever you say it is.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2019, 07:39:44 AM by Power »