Author Topic: Look at this thing I found in Pathfinder! The bad feats/spells/etc thread  (Read 70215 times)

Offline Power

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Re: Look at this thing I found in Pathfinder! The bad feats/spells/etc thread
« Reply #180 on: November 10, 2019, 10:04:23 PM »
Accidental doublepost, so I may as well add another fun feat:
Quote
ARCANE BLAST
Source Advanced Player's Guide pg. 150
You can convert any spell into an attack.

Prerequisites: Arcane spellcaster, caster level 10th.

Benefit:  As a standard action, you can sacrifice a prepared spell or unused spell slot of 1st level or higher and transform it into a ray, targeting any foe within 30 feet as a ranged touch attack. This attack deals 2d6 points of damage plus an additional 1d6 points of damage for every level of the spell or spell slot you sacrificed. 0-level spells may not be sacrificed in this manner.
If at any point in time this seems to be a better use of your spells and actions than whatever you had otherwise available, you are really, really bad at the game. For bonus points, you need to be at least caster level 10 to use this feat. Because clearly, it'd be a problem if you had it at low levels.

The sole perk I can see out of this is that it does untyped damage.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2019, 08:01:53 AM by Power »

Offline Nanashi

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Re: Look at this thing I found in Pathfinder! The bad feats/spells/etc thread
« Reply #181 on: November 15, 2019, 06:16:51 PM »
Since it's untyped damage and a ranged touch attack, it works for an Arcane Trickster/Eldritch Scoundrel. Not a great feat, but being able to turn 1st level slots into 3d6 untyped that's SR: No (indeed, RAW this works in anti-magic zones) is worth the feat for that one very specific build, so hardly the worst feat in the system.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2019, 06:25:25 PM by Nanashi »

Offline Keldar

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Re: Look at this thing I found in Pathfinder! The bad feats/spells/etc thread
« Reply #182 on: November 17, 2019, 09:00:39 AM »
Sadly, that 2d6 base makes the feat better than so many of the fool 'sacrifice a spell to do 1d6 damage per spell level' abilities that have circulated since 3.0.    And its still hot trash.

Offline Nanashi

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Re: Look at this thing I found in Pathfinder! The bad feats/spells/etc thread
« Reply #183 on: November 18, 2019, 08:37:51 PM »
Kami Eidolon subtype (Wilderness Origins) is sad. Their unique thing only comes online at level 12 (when magic and magic items can hide it pretty well already) and only lasts an hour. If it got it earlier and it lasted any decent duration of time it would have been interesting for a Summoner that wants to quickly bring out their giant friend in a combat situation, but as is the subtype is pure garbage.

edit:
The Prophets of Kalistrade vanity in PFSFG lets you reroll day job checks for the cost of a PP. The best that can result in, assuming you turned a 1 into a 20, is 75 GP. 1PP is worth 375GP. There's actually a boon that boosts this vanity (I won't name the scenario, but considering only one is set in the country the religion is based in...) and it still not worth the prestige point.

Speaking of Day Jobs: Improved Day Job feat gives a +3 to day job checks. It's explicitly meant to stack on top of Skill Focus so being strictly worse than that feat isn't that much of an issue. What is an issue is that at the absolute best case (which isn't actually possible) it lets you make a DC40 day job check, getting an extra 50 GP each check. If you took the slow path, and somehow needed it to turn a 37 into a 40 at every single level (which is obviously impossible), that's only 3600 GP over 12 levels. There's some boons that uncap day job or, more importantly, give really good rewards for hitting DC40 (like regain 1 spent prestige), which make it OK, but without outside knowledge it's useless.

edit: Underground Business from Pathfinder Society Primer costs 5PP to add +1 to day job check, and because that's so useful it makes natural 1s give you 0GP, regardless of result. There's vanities that explicitly do nothing mechanically (Herald), but this one doesn't even have RP value since you can have Profession (Pimp) without it.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2019, 01:32:23 AM by Nanashi »

Offline Power

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Re: Look at this thing I found in Pathfinder! The bad feats/spells/etc thread
« Reply #184 on: January 09, 2020, 10:05:19 AM »
An old spell, but still amazingly bad:
Quote
DEADLY FINALE
Source Advanced Player's Guide pg. 214
School evocation [sonic]; Level bard 6, skald 6
CASTING
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
EFFECT
Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Targets 1 creature/3 levels no two of which can be more than 30 ft. apart
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw Fortitude partial; Spell Resistance yes
DESCRIPTION
You must have a bardic performance in effect to cast this spell. With a flourish, you immediately end your performance, dealing 2d8 points of sonic damage to each target. In addition, each target takes 3d6 points of bleed damage for 1d6 rounds. A save negates the bleed damage but not the sonic damage.
Out of the box, this spell is complete shit. With a Maximize Spell this does 124 damage over an amazing length of 6 rounds, and that's assuming that your enemies inexplicably do not have Fast Healing or Regeneration or a source of healing or a modifier of +5 or higher to Heal skill so they can just perform First Aid as a standard action and remove the bleed damage. So bleed damage is really easily negated at these levels. I guess if you also use Furious Spell you can raise the bleed damage by another 6 (12 if only targeting a single person). So as the Bard's amazing finisher, this spell is hot garbage. Heroic Finale is a much better finisher than this.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2020, 08:21:40 PM by Power »

Offline zook1shoe

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Re: Look at this thing I found in Pathfinder! The bad feats/spells/etc thread
« Reply #185 on: January 09, 2020, 06:56:34 PM »
Level 6? Wow
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Offline Nanashi

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Re: Look at this thing I found in Pathfinder! The bad feats/spells/etc thread
« Reply #186 on: January 09, 2020, 08:59:52 PM »
It's multiple targets, so it would suck up your opponent's action economy to use cure spells (unless they use the mass version). Still pretty useless since anything you'd want to try wearing down with bleed will likely have a high fortitude.

Offline Power

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Re: Look at this thing I found in Pathfinder! The bad feats/spells/etc thread
« Reply #187 on: January 09, 2020, 10:19:04 PM »
It needs a Maximize Spell rod just to have a possibility of being viable and even then it's a slow kill with many caveats. If you just want to waste a turn of your opponents', you should be casting Irresistible Dance or Greater Song of Discord since even a successful save causes them to be hit for 1 round by those. You can also use Stunning Finale (use Arcane Concordance for Extend Spell) or Archon's Trumpet if we're using Fort saves to screw enemies out of turns. There are so many better options.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2020, 10:20:38 PM by Power »

Offline zook1shoe

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Re: Look at this thing I found in Pathfinder! The bad feats/spells/etc thread
« Reply #188 on: January 10, 2020, 02:35:02 AM »
authoritative magic missile can do almost the same
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Offline Power

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Re: Look at this thing I found in Pathfinder! The bad feats/spells/etc thread
« Reply #189 on: January 10, 2020, 09:52:44 AM »
Here's another incredibly terrible spell:
Quote
PHANTASMAL REMINDER
Source Magic Tactics Toolbox pg. 26
School illusion (phantasm) [mind-affecting]; Level antipaladin 3, arcanist 3, bard 4, mesmerist 3, psychic 3, shaman 4, skald 4, sorcerer 3, witch 3, wizard 3
CASTING
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
EFFECT
Range medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Target one living creature
Duration 1 round (see text)
Saving Throw Will disbelief, then Fortitude partial; see text; Spell Resistance yes
DESCRIPTION
You create a memory loop of a successful attack made against the target, forcing its conscious mind to recall the details of the attack in such excruciating detail that its physical body is racked by the recollection. This spell can affect only a creature that has taken damage since the end of your last turn. The target first can attempt a Will save to recognize the attack as unreal. If it fails that saving throw, the target must succeed at a Fortitude save or take an amount of damage equal to 1d6 × your caster level (maximum 10d6). Because the damage is a quasi-real memory of existing wounds, this damage can’t be reduced or prevented (such as by the shield other spell).

If the target of a phantasmal reminder attack succeeds at the Will save to disbelieve the memory loop and either has natural telepathy or is wearing a helm of telepathy, the memory of damage automatically rebounds to affect you. You must immediately attempt a Will save to disbelieve; if you fail, you take half the spell’s damage yourself.
Note that the Bard gets it at a +1 spell level penalty. After all, this spell might be too good otherwise. I guess if you use Extend Spell and Maximize Spell you can get it to hit twice for decent damage (especially with Intensify Spell for a higher damage cap) assuming you fixed the shitty double save with Resilient Illusions discovery or some other stunt, but holy shit is this one lousy spell.

Offline Keldar

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Re: Look at this thing I found in Pathfinder! The bad feats/spells/etc thread
« Reply #190 on: January 10, 2020, 11:08:17 PM »
So the damage of Fireball at the same spell level, but with a plethora of drawbacks and one trivial, situational benefit.  Who wrote that obvious trash?

Offline Nanashi

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Re: Look at this thing I found in Pathfinder! The bad feats/spells/etc thread
« Reply #191 on: January 11, 2020, 12:10:28 AM »
Not only is it a bad spell mechanically, thematically it tries to steal the Mesmerist's main class feature. Painful Stare is actually pretty decent.

Who wrote that obvious trash?

Alexander Augunas, Steven T. Helt, Thurston Hillman, or Ron Lundeen
« Last Edit: January 11, 2020, 12:13:45 AM by Nanashi »

Offline Power

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Re: Look at this thing I found in Pathfinder! The bad feats/spells/etc thread
« Reply #192 on: January 11, 2020, 06:39:19 PM »
I wouldn't rush to fault the writers. It could easily be the fault of a zealous editor who did one of paizo's infamous "balancing" passes and fixed something that wasn't broken, turning an okay spell into hot garbage. That happens a lot.

Offline Nanashi

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Re: Look at this thing I found in Pathfinder! The bad feats/spells/etc thread
« Reply #193 on: January 11, 2020, 09:58:39 PM »
True.

Offline Keldar

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Re: Look at this thing I found in Pathfinder! The bad feats/spells/etc thread
« Reply #194 on: January 12, 2020, 08:18:37 PM »
I wouldn't rush to fault the writers. It could easily be the fault of a zealous editor who did one of paizo's infamous "balancing" passes and fixed something that wasn't broken, turning an okay spell into hot garbage. That happens a lot.
Ah c'mon, guy.  WotC did it all the time too!  Invisible Blade with its ranged Feat prerequisites while having not one ability related to ranged combat being the most blatant example of editorial dipshittery.  Its a grand D20 sacred cow!

But it would have been less pithy to ask who wrote or edited that trash.

Offline Nanashi

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Re: Look at this thing I found in Pathfinder! The bad feats/spells/etc thread
« Reply #195 on: February 02, 2020, 03:39:11 AM »
Feint Defender raises the DC to feint your by your shield's AC bonus. If that wasn't bad enough, it has meaningful prerequisites. Surprisingly this came from a book that's actually considered pretty OK crunch wise (Armor Master's Handbook). As a full BAB class, Fighter (which it requires) is already hard to feint. Magus is the only thing I can recall offhand that even count as fighter without full BAB, and they're even frequently dex based so being feinted hurts them... but they don't use shields.

Offline Power

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Another awful spell:
Quote
DAMNATION
Source Horror Adventures pg. 115
School evocation [good]; Level cleric 3, inquisitor 3, oracle 3, paladin 3, warpriest 3
CASTING
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M/DF (a drop of holy water)
EFFECT
Area 30-ft.-radius burst centered on you
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw Will half; Spell Resistance yes
DESCRIPTION
You pass judgment on your enemies’ intentions and punish them with holy power. Each creature in the spell’s area takes 1d8 points of damage per spell level, determined by the most powerful effect with the evil descriptor either affecting that creature or in its spell repertoire. A caster who prepares spells takes this damage based on the highest-level evil spell he prepared that day, even if he already cast that spell. A spontaneous spellcaster takes this damage based on the highest-level evil spell she knows, even if she has no remaining spell slots available to cast that spell. A creature with evil spell-like abilities takes this damage based on the highest-level evil spell-like ability it can use. A creature who doesn’t cast spells but is the willing beneficiary of evil spells takes this damage based on the highest-level evil spell currently affecting it, including spells that affect an area such as desecrate. A creature subject to the harmful effects of an evil spell are unaffected unless it voluntarily accepted the spell’s effects.
Note that it's probably only usable on spell casters and yet is a will save for half damage (the universal strong save of spellcasters). The only interesting bit here is that it's a non mind-affecting will save. Just another one of those spells no one will ever prepare or add to their Spells Known.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2020, 11:12:03 AM by Power »

Offline Nanashi

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There's some outsiders with [evil] SLAs... but outsiders are also high Will. Even if the outsider did have an [evil] SLA, you'd be better off with a level 2 Spear of Purity
« Last Edit: March 13, 2020, 05:24:19 PM by Nanashi »

Offline zook1shoe

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it only cares about Evil spells/SLA, and thats a pretty tiny set of spells compared to most of the elemental descriptors (looks like there's ~130 from my Nethys search), basically half are Necromancy and a bunch are lesser/greater/improved/superior versions.

yes, super terrible
« Last Edit: March 13, 2020, 04:47:11 PM by zook1shoe »
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Offline Nanashi

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Does it even work on variable alignment subtype stuff like Summon Monsters and the Summon (the special SLA evil outsiders often have)? That's the only [evil] spell that's reasonably common till all the high level demons and devils start packing Blasphemy SLAs.