Author Topic: Chaos  (Read 13833 times)

Offline RegalKain

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Re: Chaos
« Reply #80 on: March 11, 2018, 12:58:49 AM »
MHAAAHHAHAHAHA!
TREMBLE AND DESPAIR MORTALS!

Demon Princess finally done! Well, still a bit rough around the edges but all the crunchy bits should be there. Need sleep now.

But now there are only 18 levels of Chaos classes!  18!  That isn't 20!

Is this deliberate so as to drive people insane and fuel more chaos?   :P

It's perfect actually. Because Fiendish Creature is 2 levels for a total of 20, and tons upon tons of stuff in Chaos synergizes super well with Fiendish Creature. :D

Offline oslecamo

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Re: Chaos
« Reply #81 on: March 11, 2018, 05:13:33 AM »
Correct, the plan always was drive people insane and fuel more chaos for six 3-level long classes and then Fiendish Creature on top for a full 20 progression.

Offline Versatility_Nut

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Re: Chaos
« Reply #82 on: March 11, 2018, 09:00:53 PM »
Correct, the plan always was drive people insane and fuel more chaos for six 3-level long classes and then Fiendish Creature on top for a full 20 progression.
And now I want to see a half-Fey or Anarchic template-class that has the same synergy properties, but from a different angle. Focus on the Chaos, not the Evil, basically.

Offline Nanshork

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Re: Chaos
« Reply #83 on: March 11, 2018, 09:07:33 PM »
Correct, the plan always was drive people insane and fuel more chaos for six 3-level long classes and then Fiendish Creature on top for a full 20 progression.
And now I want to see a half-Fey or Anarchic template-class that has the same synergy properties, but from a different angle. Focus on the Chaos, not the Evil, basically.

This Chaos class is more Warhammer Chaos than being chaotic.

Offline Versatility_Nut

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Re: Chaos
« Reply #84 on: March 11, 2018, 09:18:03 PM »
This Chaos class is more Warhammer Chaos than being chaotic.
I know this perfectly fine, but the Chaos Undivided lot are a little more Chaos than Evil and don't have much in the way of worshipping dark beings. Because they worship the raw stuff behind those powers, the literal force of nature behind the Dark Gods, they should be associated with primordial, fundamentally amoral, chaos. Like Anarchic forces, which do far worse than what 40k has in store in a few edge cases (and the merger of the two leads to abject insanity like being turned into formless jelly not producing any harmful effects, one possible outcome of Warp Touch + Cancer Mage).

Offline oslecamo

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Re: Chaos
« Reply #85 on: March 11, 2018, 10:14:07 PM »
Eeerr, Word Bearers are literally "worship all the chaos gods!" and Black Legion's basically "Each chaos god has its uses, let's curry favor with all of them.". Night Lords closer to the "we did it for the chaoluz".

Anyway there's a lot of synergies in the Chaos classes, so even if I made an anarchic or half-fey template, making it work with this would be quite a lot of extra work.

Like Anarchic forces, which do far worse than what 40k has in store in a few edge cases (and the merger of the two leads to abject insanity like being turned into formless jelly not producing any harmful effects, one possible outcome of Warp Touch + Cancer Mage).
Don't forget the red slaadi that go around implanting eggs that will burst out alien-style from inside you or the blue slaadi that bite you so hard you metamorphosis in one of them while still alive (undead at least have the decency of killing you first before turning you into their spawn).

Offline Nanshork

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Re: Chaos
« Reply #86 on: March 11, 2018, 10:31:54 PM »
Pretty much all of Chaos Cultist's class features are in the Minor Gift spoiler.

Offline oslecamo

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Re: Chaos
« Reply #87 on: March 12, 2018, 08:56:52 AM »
Thanks, fixed!

Offline VindAlowd

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Re: Chaos
« Reply #88 on: March 12, 2018, 03:46:08 PM »
Word Legion mutations for the Demon Princess are incomplete.

VA

Offline oslecamo

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Re: Chaos
« Reply #89 on: March 15, 2018, 09:04:18 AM »
Knew I was forgetting something, added.

Offline DavidWL

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Re: Chaos
« Reply #90 on: March 20, 2018, 02:45:32 AM »
Ah, at last, at last, Ultimate Power!!!  Mwahahaha  :)

Quote
Skills:6+int modifier per level, quadruple at 1st level, class skills are Apraise(Int), Balance(Dex), Climb(Str),

I just noticed it says "quadruple at 1st level", which is probably not relevant.  Similarly for the other classes except for Chaos Cultist.

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When gaining Legion mutations, you must pick one of the following selections and can only pick from that one, even if you're a Renegade.

Never asked ... if you have 1 kind of Legion pick at an earlier class (Let's say Dark Legion as part of Chaos Lady), can you pick a different one from Demon Princess?

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Mutation - Dark Legion: Supreme Shadow

Great flavor, but I think it could be a bit stronger

Quote
Death of False Emperors- You gain a +6 profane bonus to 1d20 rolls, DCs, and damage rolls and ignore all hardness, DR, regeneration and effects that would reduce/redirect/prevent damage against any target that has any ongoing effect that affects allies and/or cohorts/companions/followers/minions/similar.  In addition such creatures you harm have their effects that benefit allies supressed and any cohorts/companions/followers/minions/similar be unable to attack or hinder you nor help their master for 1d12 rounds. Each extra time you pick this the profane bonus increases by 2 and the supression lasts 1 extra round.

Cool ability.  bonus to all d20 rolls is pretty awesome (includes initiative, skills, most attacks, etc.).  The de-buff is very flavorful and interesting.


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Iron Legion - Sheathed in Steel

Just to be clear, the HP of the armor is 1 5' section?

Quote
Iron Legion - Ironfire

I think this should be stronger ... it's an ok attack, but HD*1D12 to 1 target as a standard action, if they have a metal object, isn't that great for an ability at this level.  Also, gets a save ...  There are some nice options, but not that strong.

Quote
Iron Legion - Blind Judge

Cool ability - not a lot of great sensing abilities, and this is very cool.  The huge bonus to sense motive was a nice and creative touch.

I'd suggest the range increase with extra picks should be *much* more.  If anything, the increase should grow with extra picks vs. shrink.  At this level, you could even double range with every extra pick

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Alpha Army - Control Coils

The permanent domination effect is very interesting!

Quote
Alpha Army - Lernaean  Legacy

Yes, another very interesting ability ... 'I'm assuming this can split indefinitely ... if you have 27 HP, and take 1 HP damage, you can split into 2 with 13 HP.  And if each of them take 1 HP damage, then you have 4 you's with each having 6HP damage?

Also, I think additional picks should be *much more valuable ... HP restored on a 2nd pick might be per 10 Min, and then 3rd pick might be per min for example.

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Word Legion - Utterblight
... I'd make this grow more ... "Each extra time you take this increase the Cha and Str bonus by 3" ... maybe by +5 for extra picks?  The Stength boost growing faster is no big deal, but teh Cha needs some care.  However I think it's the right choice.

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Word Legion - Undivided
Another very interesting ability!  The "use it, can't use it for a long time, but huge access" is interesting.  Really a very powerful ability since you could cast 9 spells from each of 20 domains all in 1 day (albiet burning through domains like crazy).

If you have extra picks, this is almost a double-edged sword, since if you want to move to a new domain you have to burn through the spells of 1 domain 3 times rather than just one ... while it might be a bit powerful, I'm inclined to say you have to burn through all spells of a domain once before moving on, but you can pick the same domain again ... maybe each domain get's restored at the rate of 1 use of a domain in 1D12 days.


More later.  Thank you again!

Best
David

Offline oslecamo

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Re: Chaos
« Reply #91 on: March 20, 2018, 11:28:52 PM »
Ah, at last, at last, Ultimate Power!!!  Mwahahaha  :)

Quote
Skills:6+int modifier per level, quadruple at 1st level, class skills are Apraise(Int), Balance(Dex), Climb(Str),

I just noticed it says "quadruple at 1st level", which is probably not relevant.  Similarly for the other classes except for Chaos Cultist.
Fixed. Only took what, 5 years for people to notice it? :p

Quote
When gaining Legion mutations, you must pick one of the following selections and can only pick from that one, even if you're a Renegade.

Never asked ... if you have 1 kind of Legion pick at an earlier class (Let's say Dark Legion as part of Chaos Lady), can you pick a different one from Demon Princess?
Yes, you can swap legions between each of the classes.

Quote
Mutation - Dark Legion: Supreme Shadow

Great flavor, but I think it could be a bit stronger
Added option to decrease/increase the Silence radius and Improved Invisibility to affect other stuff inside said radius and you're not hindered by them either.

Quote
Death of False Emperors- You gain a +6 profane bonus to 1d20 rolls, DCs, and damage rolls and ignore all hardness, DR, regeneration and effects that would reduce/redirect/prevent damage against any target that has any ongoing effect that affects allies and/or cohorts/companions/followers/minions/similar.  In addition such creatures you harm have their effects that benefit allies supressed and any cohorts/companions/followers/minions/similar be unable to attack or hinder you nor help their master for 1d12 rounds. Each extra time you pick this the profane bonus increases by 2 and the supression lasts 1 extra round.

Cool ability.  bonus to all d20 rolls is pretty awesome (includes initiative, skills, most attacks, etc.).  The de-buff is very flavorful and interesting.
Thanks! DEATH TO THE FALSE EMPRAH AND ALL HIS SLAVES! :D

Quote
Iron Legion - Sheathed in Steel

Just to be clear, the HP of the armor is 1 5' section?
Yes.

Quote
Iron Legion - Ironfire

I think this should be stronger ... it's an ok attack, but HD*1D12 to 1 target as a standard action, if they have a metal object, isn't that great for an ability at this level.  Also, gets a save ...  There are some nice options, but not that strong.
Added half damage and disableitem for 1 round if save made.

Quote
Iron Legion - Blind Judge

Cool ability - not a lot of great sensing abilities, and this is very cool.  The huge bonus to sense motive was a nice and creative touch.

I'd suggest the range increase with extra picks should be *much* more.  If anything, the increase should grow with extra picks vs. shrink.  At this level, you could even double range with every extra pick
Doubling it is!

Quote
Alpha Army - Control Coils

The permanent domination effect is very interesting!
Great to hear that! Hydra dominatus!

Quote
Alpha Army - Lernaean  Legacy

Yes, another very interesting ability ... 'I'm assuming this can split indefinitely ... if you have 27 HP, and take 1 HP damage, you can split into 2 with 13 HP.  And if each of them take 1 HP damage, then you have 4 you's with each having 6HP damage?
Correct.

Also, I think additional picks should be *much more valuable ... HP restored on a 2nd pick might be per 10 Min, and then 3rd pick might be per min for example.
Done.

Quote
Word Legion - Utterblight
... I'd make this grow more ... "Each extra time you take this increase the Cha and Str bonus by 3" ... maybe by +5 for extra picks?  The Stength boost growing faster is no big deal, but teh Cha needs some care.  However I think it's the right choice.
Heh, may as well.

Quote
Word Legion - Undivided
Another very interesting ability!  The "use it, can't use it for a long time, but huge access" is interesting.  Really a very powerful ability since you could cast 9 spells from each of 20 domains all in 1 day (albiet burning through domains like crazy).

If you have extra picks, this is almost a double-edged sword, since if you want to move to a new domain you have to burn through the spells of 1 domain 3 times rather than just one ... while it might be a bit powerful, I'm inclined to say you have to burn through all spells of a domain once before moving on, but you can pick the same domain again ... maybe each domain get's restored at the rate of 1 use of a domain in 1D12 days.
Hmmm, instead added option to dismiss older domains as long as you used at least each spell level once each, so there's no penalty for taking it multiple times.

More later.  Thank you again!

Best
David
You're welcome. :)

Offline VindAlowd

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Re: Chaos
« Reply #92 on: March 28, 2018, 11:51:58 AM »
Chaos Warrior and Chaos Lady have the same choke grenade wargear.

VA.

Offline oslecamo

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Re: Chaos
« Reply #93 on: March 29, 2018, 01:01:13 AM »
Fixed, thanks.

Offline DavidWL

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Re: Chaos
« Reply #94 on: May 06, 2018, 04:17:12 AM »
I'm obviously very slow!

Working through the list ...

Mutations: Berzerker: Thirster for blood --> I'd add more on additional picks ...

Mutations: Noise: Secret Keeper --> Very cool!  The social skill is very interesting ... let's say you are in a big city, and .5 miles away, a man says to his wife, "you look very nice in that dress" (lying) then what do you know ... that someone said a lie .5 miles away?  Would you know this person if you met them?  Would you know anything about the nature of the lie?  I'd also say this ability should get better with additional picks

Mutations: Plague: The Unclean One --> Cool ... I like the 1 mile range ... makes it feel really amazing ... your coming is like the coming of the 4 horseman of the apocalypse ...

Mutation: Plague: Change Lord --> I would make some of the benefits more broad ... most creatures won't have changed their shape, making most of the benefits (other than shapechange) not that relevant ..

Mutation: Rubric: Form of Sorcery --> These builds would really make an interesting alternate caster ...

Wargear -> Weapons -> Pistol -> Channeling Pistol:   Super cool!  I have this image of combining this with some ability that allows you to attack all in range, and unleshing the gates of hell ...

Wargear -> Weapons -> Other ... a lot of these are quite cool

Wargear -> Weapons -> Other -> The Blade of Laer: The description doesn't quite make sense ... "that would force you take orderd against your normal will on you "

Wargear -> Weapons -> Other -> Silence:  "even if they save they are permanently silenced" ... a no save silence is a bit strong given that this shuts down many casters ... still, very cool ability

Wargear -> Weapons -> Other -> Worldbreaker:  Very cool!  Does "destroy terrain" mean "make featureless" or mean "leave a big hole"?  I'd propose that you can choose.  If you can "leave a big hole", and then if you just spend time attacking the terrain below you, can you tunnel through the world / the ocean?  (I'd vote for yes).





Offline DavidWL

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Re: Chaos
« Reply #95 on: May 06, 2018, 04:48:17 AM »
Chaos Style -> Legion -> Dark Legion -> Death Dealer: Wonderful Imagery.  Fighting someone like this would be a wonderful epic task

Chaos Style -> Legion -> Iron Legion -> Warsmith: The ability to stock your troops is cool.  Maybe extra picks allow you to stock 1 level up (For example, 2 picks means you can give 2000 glorious weapons)

Chaos Style -> Legion -> Alpha Army -> The Reward of Treason:  If it is a class trait (familiar, cohort, etc.) I'm inclined to allow a save, because losing your cohort without a save isn't cool

Chaos Style -> Legion -> Alpha Army -> True Believed:  Very cool, but probably a bit strong.  I'd reduce the cap from 2x to 1.5x or even lower.

Chaos Style -> Legion -> Alpha Army -> Serrated Sun:  After you create them, how are they inclined?  Do they change how they would behave?

Chaos Style -> Berzerker-> Unstoppable Wave:  Once again, fabulous imagery.

Chaos Style -> Noise -> Flawless Execution:  "When you attack a creature below 20% their max HP or with under half your HD you may slay them outright" ... I assume this is only if you hit ..

Chaos Style -> Noise -> Sublime Sereness:  Should have a bit more functionality ...

Chaos Style -> Plague-> Forbidden Arsenal:  I'd increase on extra picks by more than 2. 

Chaos Style -> Plague-> Creeping Death:  Extra picks should be a lot more valuable.

Chaos Style -> Rubric -> The Alembic of Adamant-Diamond is unbreakable:  When you attack people in your personal time stop, can they attack back?  Are they in the timestop with you?  Does attacking "wake them up"?  If not, are they considered helpless?

Chaos Style -> Rubric -> Astral Warfare:  Can you use this defensively (Immediate action?)

Demon Deity (Capstone) -> the ability to get some free shadow "God" levels is cool.  I'd also give all the benefits of the 1st level of god (example:  A portfolio & a god realm).  I'd also suggest that fiendish creature levels stack for the purposes of god levels, so that you can end up as an intermediate deity.

best
David


Offline oslecamo

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Re: Chaos
« Reply #96 on: May 08, 2018, 10:46:59 AM »
I'm obviously very slow!

Working through the list ...

Mutations: Berzerker: Thirster for blood --> I'd add more on additional picks ...
Now adds more DC and extra attacks.

Mutations: Noise: Secret Keeper --> Very cool!  The social skill is very interesting ... let's say you are in a big city, and .5 miles away, a man says to his wife, "you look very nice in that dress" (lying) then what do you know ... that someone said a lie .5 miles away?  Would you know this person if you met them?  Would you know anything about the nature of the lie?  I'd also say this ability should get better with additional picks
Buffed too.

Mutations: Plague: The Unclean One --> Cool ... I like the 1 mile range ... makes it feel really amazing ... your coming is like the coming of the 4 horseman of the apocalypse ...
Excellent!

Mutation: Plague: Change Lord --> I would make some of the benefits more broad ... most creatures won't have changed their shape, making most of the benefits (other than shapechange) not that relevant ..
Although most low level creatures indeed can't change their shape, many of the high level ones can.

Plus the real benefit from this pick is that you get perma shapechange even if it has some limitations, the anti-transformation is more of an extra bonus.

Mutation: Rubric: Form of Sorcery --> These builds would really make an interesting alternate caster ...

Wargear -> Weapons -> Pistol -> Channeling Pistol:   Super cool!  I have this image of combining this with some ability that allows you to attack all in range, and unleshing the gates of hell ...

Wargear -> Weapons -> Other ... a lot of these are quite cool

Wargear -> Weapons -> Other -> The Blade of Laer: The description doesn't quite make sense ... "that would force you take orderd against your normal will on you "
Cleaned up text, the idea is that if somebody throws a charm/dominate at you, they're the ones that need to save and if they fail they're now under your control.

Wargear -> Weapons -> Other -> Silence:  "even if they save they are permanently silenced" ... a no save silence is a bit strong given that this shuts down many casters ... still, very cool ability
Reduced silence to 1 round.

Wargear -> Weapons -> Other -> Worldbreaker:  Very cool!  Does "destroy terrain" mean "make featureless" or mean "leave a big hole"?  I'd propose that you can choose.  If you can "leave a big hole", and then if you just spend time attacking the terrain below you, can you tunnel through the world / the ocean?  (I'd vote for yes).
Yes, added great suggestions.


Chaos Style -> Legion -> Dark Legion -> Death Dealer: Wonderful Imagery.  Fighting someone like this would be a wonderful epic task

Chaos Style -> Legion -> Iron Legion -> Warsmith: The ability to stock your troops is cool.  Maybe extra picks allow you to stock 1 level up (For example, 2 picks means you can give 2000 glorious weapons)
Done.

Chaos Style -> Legion -> Alpha Army -> The Reward of Treason:  If it is a class trait (familiar, cohort, etc.) I'm inclined to allow a save, because losing your cohort without a save isn't cool
Done.

Chaos Style -> Legion -> Alpha Army -> True Believed:  Very cool, but probably a bit strong.  I'd reduce the cap from 2x to 1.5x or even lower.
Done too.

Chaos Style -> Legion -> Alpha Army -> Serrated Sun:  After you create them, how are they inclined?  Do they change how they would behave?
Their minds are not changed.

Chaos Style -> Berzerker-> Unstoppable Wave:  Once again, fabulous imagery.
Thanks again, was a nice challenge coming up with those! :D

Chaos Style -> Noise -> Flawless Execution:  "When you attack a creature below 20% their max HP or with under half your HD you may slay them outright" ... I assume this is only if you hit ..
No need to hit so the flawless execution doesn't fumble in a natural 1 or something. I don't feel like it's OP since you first need to reduce the enemy to 20% HP or you're just slaying mooks.

Chaos Style -> Noise -> Sublime Sereness:  Should have a bit more functionality ...
Adds extra swift/immediate action per round now.

Chaos Style -> Plague-> Forbidden Arsenal:  I'd increase on extra picks by more than 2. 
Increased to 4.

Chaos Style -> Plague-> Creeping Death:  Extra picks should be a lot more valuable.
Eeerr, bit dry on ideas now. Something for later.

Chaos Style -> Rubric -> The Alembic of Adamant-Diamond is unbreakable:  When you attack people in your personal time stop, can they attack back?  Are they in the timestop with you?  Does attacking "wake them up"?  If not, are they considered helpless?
Not helpless, but can't counter either.

Chaos Style -> Rubric -> Astral Warfare:  Can you use this defensively (Immediate action?)
No, immediate action movement can get pretty complicated, and I think this one is already plenty strong, in particular since you can bring others along.

Demon Deity (Capstone) -> the ability to get some free shadow "God" levels is cool.  I'd also give all the benefits of the 1st level of god (example:  A portfolio & a god realm).  I'd also suggest that fiendish creature levels stack for the purposes of god levels, so that you can end up as an intermediate deity.

best
David

And done as well.