Author Topic: OOOOO OOOOO CCCCCC  (Read 8272 times)

Offline sirpercival

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Re: OOOOO OOOOO CCCCCC
« Reply #80 on: March 10, 2013, 06:00:58 AM »
FitS - what are your difficulties with the scaleshaper?  Feat options?  What bookkeeping is bothering you?  I'm happy to help work things out... though if you want to play something else that's ok too.
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Offline Concerned Ninja Citizen

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Re: OOOOO OOOOO CCCCCC
« Reply #81 on: March 10, 2013, 10:05:45 PM »
I have quite a ways to go with my character and I'm somewhat torn.

On the one hand I'm very happy with my concept and the flavor of my class and build. It inspired me to go background first and that's not something I often do.

On the other hand, I'm getting nervous about my ability to contribute to the party. Both raw power wise (one of the main things I do is give myself bonuses to things and it looks like Chris's DMM/Incantatrix tag team may be able to do that for me better than I can do it for myself) and in that I'm not sure how to make the most of my lots and lots of different abilities.

I've been watching the FoPP game and I've noticed what Head of Vecna is doing with his character. I'm somewhat tempted to do something similar in the "abuse the multiclassing houserule by taking lots of classes" sense only with a martial type character (taking several classes that grant bonus feats would also let me make the most of the tome feat system, which I really like). That would make me feel better about the power level thing but, as I said above, I like my concept and the Extractor class both very much.

Offline FireInTheSky

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Re: OOOOO OOOOO CCCCCC
« Reply #82 on: March 11, 2013, 10:14:10 PM »
FitS - what are your difficulties with the scaleshaper?  Feat options?  What bookkeeping is bothering you?  I'm happy to help work things out... though if you want to play something else that's ok too.
Some Draconic feats?  Maybe Entangling Exhalation. (Question about this one.  If I'm a Dragonwrought Kobold, I no longer have the [Dragonblooded] subtype, which is a pre-req for Entangling Exhalation.  So that means I couldn't take it?  (:huh  that don't make no sense...)  Actually, I'm very confused on the  interaction between being a Kobold, with [dragonblood] subtype, having the Dragonwrought feat which turns you into a dragon and removes the [dragonblood] subtype, how that interacts with the Draconic Heritage feat (you take that to get the [dragonblood] subtype back after already BEING a dragon???)
Dragonwrought (Ex): A kobold scaleshaper gains Dragonwrought as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites. (This feat does not allow him to count as a true dragon.) In addition, any draconic feats he selects function as if his draconic ancestors were of the same type as any Ideal he expresses. For example, a scaleshaper with the Draconic Heritage feat who expressed the Black Dragon Ideal would gain the benefit of Draconic Heritage (Black); if he switched the next day to the Gold Dragon Ideal he would gain the benefit of Draconic Heritage (Gold) instead.
Some general feat questions are in the rest of the quoted post, but one specific confusion is quoted directly.

As for bookkeeping, there's keeping track of:
  Normal stats
  Stats while in dragon form
  Stats for a single dragon projection
  Stats for a single dragon projection using non-expressed Ideal
  Stats for multiple dragon projections
  Stats for multiple dragon projections using non-expressed Ideals
  Which Ideals I'm currently expressing, and how they affect my abilities
 
I feel like I'm forgetting something, too.  I love the idea of the class, but it just seems like a lot, and I'm not sure how to slim down the bookkeeping without trashing the class.

Offline sirpercival

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Re: OOOOO OOOOO CCCCCC
« Reply #83 on: March 11, 2013, 10:26:33 PM »
So, one thing that helps is the rule that having the Dragon type automatically satisfies the prereq of having the Dragonblood subtype.  So, you count as dragonblooded when you're a dragon. Ta-da!

Re: bookkeeping, one thing you can do is ignore the whole "off-ideal" thing.  Stick to the Ideals you have, and then if you need another Ideal, you can adjust things on the fly as necessary (especially easy given that this is a PbP with lots of player downtime).  Alternatively, I can help you set up extra statblocks if you'd rather have them hanging around.

Another thing is: why would you ever want to hang out in normal form?  At least for combat purposes.  The only thing you have to keep track of when in your normal form is AC and Hide checks.

The expressed Ideal is a problem... but many/most of them don't affect your running stats... right?  Or am I understating the problem?

I'm not trying to talk you into playing a character you won't enjoy -- I just want to make sure that my class isn't the problem :)

As for feat suggestions:
~Mystic probably isn't worth it for you.  We'll have enough people who can handle Detect Magic.
~World Traveler's high-level ability is awesome, but the rest is meh.  I wouldn't take it yet.
~Profound Presence is meh.  Not worth it.
~Ghostly Visage is awesome.
~Seeing as how I told you about the Riven Hourglass stuff, I have to recommend them once again :D
~However, really you'll probably want Extra Ideal (or whatever the name of that feat is) which gives you more Ideal uses.
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Offline Concerned Ninja Citizen

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Re: OOOOO OOOOO CCCCCC
« Reply #84 on: March 11, 2013, 10:47:26 PM »
So I want a Combat Reflexes effect but the breaking of hordes (at least the cleavage involved) does not appeal to me. I'd rather do something trippy.

(click to show/hide)

Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: OOOOO OOOOO CCCCCC
« Reply #85 on: March 11, 2013, 11:57:49 PM »
That feat looks fine, I think.
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Offline FireInTheSky

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Re: OOOOO OOOOO CCCCCC
« Reply #86 on: March 12, 2013, 12:26:56 AM »
So, one thing that helps is the rule that having the Dragon type automatically satisfies the prereq of having the Dragonblood subtype.  So, you count as dragonblooded when you're a dragon. Ta-da!

Cool, that's real simple!

Quote
Re: bookkeeping, one thing you can do is ignore the whole "off-ideal" thing.  Stick to the Ideals you have, and then if you need another Ideal, you can adjust things on the fly as necessary (especially easy given that this is a PbP with lots of player downtime).  Alternatively, I can help you set up extra statblocks if you'd rather have them hanging around.

Another thing is: why would you ever want to hang out in normal form?  At least for combat purposes.  The only thing you have to keep track of when in your normal form is AC and Hide checks.

The expressed Ideal is a problem... but many/most of them don't affect your running stats... right?  Or am I understating the problem?

I'm not trying to talk you into playing a character you won't enjoy -- I just want to make sure that my class isn't the problem :)

All are great points, and definitely help.  I do want to play this character, it was just starting to get kind of overwhelming.

Quote
As for feat suggestions:
~Mystic probably isn't worth it for you.  We'll have enough people who can handle Detect Magic.
~World Traveler's high-level ability is awesome, but the rest is meh.  I wouldn't take it yet.
~Profound Presence is meh.  Not worth it.
~Ghostly Visage is awesome.
~Seeing as how I told you about the Riven Hourglass stuff, I have to recommend them once again :D
~However, really you'll probably want Extra Ideal (or whatever the name of that feat is) which gives you more Ideal uses.

I agree about all of the [TOME] feats.  I don't think Extra Ideal is necessary, because of Phae's houserule where Ideal uses reset at the beginning of each encounter.  I think the Too Pretty To Die feat is pretty useful for this character - crunch-wise, if not fluff-wise.  I don't think any of the Draconic feats are very useful for this build.

Do I (or, can I) count as having a breath weapon?  If so, Entangling Exhalation is probably a good idea.

So that would give me:
  Ghostly Visage
  Too Pretty To Die
  Entangling Exhalation

Leaving 1 spot.  Probably for Martial Study: Clockwatcher.

How does that sound?
« Last Edit: March 12, 2013, 12:29:03 AM by FireInTheSky »

Offline sirpercival

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Re: OOOOO OOOOO CCCCCC
« Reply #87 on: March 12, 2013, 08:24:40 AM »
Sounds fantabular.  I forgot about that houserule :D
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Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: OOOOO OOOOO CCCCCC
« Reply #88 on: March 12, 2013, 10:17:53 AM »
If you have a breath weapon temporarily, say from expressing an ideal or whatever, then yes you count as one for prereqs.
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Offline MetroMagic

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Re: OOOOO OOOOO CCCCCC
« Reply #89 on: March 18, 2013, 01:43:32 PM »
I haven’t had time to write up the Wave of Healing for Blisss, and won’t be able to do it until after the 28th but I have some ideas to (a) tone it down a bit more and (b) add some spice in its backstory and in play. More on this later.

Meanwhile, I’ve been bogged down in the infinite codex of magic items. Here are just a few of the too many ideas; they seem a little excessively extensive, and kind of mundane, both at the same time. Suggestions are welcome. I’m posting the big list here, and will check in on your thoughts though my time is very limited till after the 28th.

(click to show/hide)

Question: What would a Ring of Wizardry do for a Blue Mage, who can cast the spells over and over anyway? Add spells known, since the number of spells known = the number of slots? Allow extra casting within a single encounter, with the extras refreshed each encounter? Or only extras once per day?

Offline FireInTheSky

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Re: OOOOO OOOOO CCCCCC
« Reply #90 on: March 20, 2013, 12:09:39 AM »
Phae, how would you feel about a double-lined bag with Quintessence in the middle, and the inner lining being a Bag of Holding?  (Or think of it as a Bag of Holding covered in Quintessence, inside a normal bag).  Would the contents of the Bag of Holding be held in stasis?  The specific reason I'm asking is because of this item, which says it resets every 24 hours.  If I were to have 6 of them that I had to recharge every day, I wouldn't have time for anything else.  However, if I only had to recharge one once it was used, and the rest stayed in stasis, the lack of time would be solved.  Also, are these Attuned items (not the bag obv., but the Treatises)?  Assuming you're okay with the stasised bag, I'll have 6 of them regardless of whether or not they need Attuning, but that could affect my other items.

Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: OOOOO OOOOO CCCCCC
« Reply #91 on: March 20, 2013, 12:17:43 AM »
Phae, how would you feel about a double-lined bag with Quintessence in the middle, and the inner lining being a Bag of Holding?  (Or think of it as a Bag of Holding covered in Quintessence, inside a normal bag).  Would the contents of the Bag of Holding be held in stasis?  The specific reason I'm asking is because of this item, which says it resets every 24 hours.  If I were to have 6 of them that I had to recharge every day, I wouldn't have time for anything else.  However, if I only had to recharge one once it was used, and the rest stayed in stasis, the lack of time would be solved.  Also, are these Attuned items (not the bag obv., but the Treatises)?  Assuming you're okay with the stasised bag, I'll have 6 of them regardless of whether or not they need Attuning, but that could affect my other items.
Hmmm.... interesting. Yes, I'll allow that, although I wonder if I won't regret it when someone else uses this trick for something more abusive. :P

As for whether it needs to be attuned... I'll have to think about that. It's kind of like a Knowstone for a sorcerer, which I think I would require to be attuned. So I'm leaning toward yes... Is having more ideals available so useful that you'd give up almost all of your attuned item slots for them?
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Offline FireInTheSky

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Re: OOOOO OOOOO CCCCCC
« Reply #92 on: March 20, 2013, 12:35:35 AM »
Hmmm.... interesting. Yes, I'll allow that, although I wonder if I won't regret it when someone else uses this trick for something more abusive. :P

Well, I can't promise that I won't think of something more abusive...  :plotting  (...I probably won't...)

Quote
As for whether it needs to be attuned... I'll have to think about that. It's kind of like a Knowstone for a sorcerer, which I think I would require to be attuned. So I'm leaning toward yes... Is having more ideals available so useful that you'd give up almost all of your attuned item slots for them?

I wouldn't have all of them attuned at the same time.  At most, I'd only ever need to have 4 attuned,  since I'd be expressing 2 of them already.  Also, once per day I can change an ideal anyway.  And, I can make Projections of Ideals I'm not expressing.  Honestly, I don't know that I'd walk around with any attuned.  Mostly this would be for an out-of-combat situation where I wanted the versatility of being able to express any of my Ideals, and the 15 minute attunement period wouldn't matter.


EDIT:  In this setting, what would the reaction be if I were to be in Dragon form pretty much all the time?  Very bad, and thus I should only be in DF for combat?  Minimal, so it's cool to have a Dragon openly traveling with the party?  Somewhere in between?  (...I'm assuming it's the first or third one, but the 2nd one would certainly be the easiest to deal with on my end)

MORE EDIT:  With Too Pretty To Die, does my armor now have a Max Cha Bonus instead of a Max Dex Bonus?  I think the answer is no, but I just wanted to double check.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2013, 12:54:38 AM by FireInTheSky »

Offline FireInTheSky

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Re: OOOOO OOOOO CCCCCC
« Reply #93 on: April 23, 2013, 04:05:51 AM »
Am I the person we're waiting on? Admittedly, this has been a bit on the back burner for me, but I can make a push to get my character done in the next couple of days if I need to.

Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: OOOOO OOOOO CCCCCC
« Reply #94 on: April 23, 2013, 10:41:57 PM »
I don't think you're the only one, and I've been absolutely insanely busy IRL, but that should begin to level off considerably, starting tomorrow. :D
I don't pee messages into the snow often , but when I do , it's in Cyrillic with Fake Viagra.  Stay frosty my friends.

Offline FireInTheSky

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Re: OOOOO OOOOO CCCCCC
« Reply #95 on: April 24, 2013, 12:00:14 AM »
Cool. I'll start working on Murp again.

Also, CNC, the link for Art's pic is broken.


EDIT:  Phae, while I'm working on him, can you take a quick look at Murp and see if there's anything you don't like?

EDIT2: I have mindsight. Does my wyrmspirit, which also has telepathy, gain the benefit of mindsight???

EDIT3: What do you think of this item, with the following modifications:
  *Gives the protection of SRD Endure Elements, not just (Cold).
  *Flask has the effects of a Decanter of Endless Water.
  *Always under the effect of Prestidigitation, but only useable to keep the wearer clean and dry.
  *Grants the wearer a +5 Enhancement bonus to Survival and Knowledge: Geography checks.
  *Market Price: 15,000gp
(...okay fine, it's not really the same item anymore, just loosely based on the linked item...)

MOAR EDITT!!: I have ALL skills as class skills. So, as a party, what do we need covered? Obviously, since my CHA is GINORMOUS (+13), some good choices would be Bluff, Diplomacy, and Gather Info. Should I put anything into Handle Animal, Intimidate, or UMD? Here's the list of skills from my Ideals, which, at the very least, I should put a little something into: Bluff (already covered), Survival, Lucid Dreaming, Disable Device, Intimidate, Appraise, Tumble, Autohypnosis, Hide, Any One Knowledge, Spellcraft. On the other hand, the only skill actually required for any of my Ideal Powers is Appraise. So I guess it still comes down to what we need. If it helps, my other good stats are Dex (+4), Con (+4), and Int (+6).
« Last Edit: April 24, 2013, 02:02:59 AM by FireInTheSky »

Offline sirpercival

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Re: OOOOO OOOOO CCCCCC
« Reply #96 on: April 24, 2013, 08:00:10 AM »
Iaijutsu Focus!

(phae, how does IF interact with natural weapons??)
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Offline MetroMagic

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Re: OOOOO OOOOO CCCCCC
« Reply #97 on: April 25, 2013, 12:08:44 AM »
::Grinding noise as character generator turns over, throwing off a shower of rust::

Lots of time spent elsewhere online, and now work for school and other promises for a few days. More time soon. I have too many ideas here, need focus.

SirP has one, maybe I can borrow his  :P