Author Topic: Extractor [base]  (Read 6949 times)

Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: Extractor [base]
« Reply #20 on: February 01, 2013, 02:02:02 PM »
I dunno... the lore goes both ways.  I was including it to kind of represent the whole "we have to be close to you to hook you up to the machine" thing... but in, for example, Tel'ara'rhiod, you can find someone's dreams from anywhere and pull them into dream shards.  So I'm kinda torn.
For T'A'R,  you need to be physically close or more importantly, spiritually close to find a particular person/dream, unless the dream is particularly strong or noticeable in some other way. So it's twofold, you have to be physically near them unless you have a pre-existing close relationship or some other connection.
Hmm... I guess I could make it a set of modifiers, rather than static DCs based on specific relationships, and incorporate physical distance as well. That's not a bad idea at all... I'll put that into the skill writeup, so it doesn't have to be part of this class (and hence a nerf at how they use the skill :P ).
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Offline ariasderros

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Re: Extractor [base]
« Reply #21 on: February 01, 2013, 03:26:14 PM »
I haven't seen the movie.
Read the description of the class, and started to think of the greek philosophers who laid the groundwork for existential thought. Specifically, Plato's Theory of Forms. Then I read the "designers note".

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Very well-written and interesting class.

Table in the Extraction rules is 'broken'. Row tag isn't closed.
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Offline sirpercival

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Re: Extractor [base]
« Reply #22 on: February 01, 2013, 03:31:52 PM »
I haven't seen the movie.
Read the description of the class, and started to think of the greek philosophers who laid the groundwork for existential thought. Specifically, Plato's Theory of Forms. Then I read the "designers note".

(click to show/hide)

Very well-written and interesting class.

Table in the Extraction rules is 'broken'. Row tag isn't closed.

Oh man, this is one of my favorite movies, you're going to LOVE it.  I'm glad you like the class... we'll find somewhere for you to play it, don't worry.
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Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: Extractor [base]
« Reply #23 on: February 01, 2013, 04:33:45 PM »
Yeah, fantastic movie. :D
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Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: Extractor [base]
« Reply #24 on: February 01, 2013, 06:08:06 PM »
Something else I thought of: this "extraction" should be capable only within the target's mind. That's why building and maintaining the dreamscape is so difficult and taxing (as opposed to normal): you're not making it in your own mind, but rather manipulating someone else's in such a way as to trap them within it, and trick them into revealing their secrets to you.

If all of this was done within your own mind, then your secrets would be the ones revealed in the end (when you crack the safe, etc).

The way its written now, it sounds like you're constructing this within your own mind and drawing them into it, but that's now how it worked in the movie, and I don't think that really makes sense here, either.

So I think you need to change the order of steps around and/or get rid of the part when you draw the target into the dreamscape.
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Offline ariasderros

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Re: Extractor [base]
« Reply #25 on: February 01, 2013, 06:11:57 PM »
So I think you need to change the order of steps around and/or get rid of the part when you draw the target into the dreamscape.

More like re-word it so that you super-impose the dreamscape you design into their dream so that it becomes their dreamscape.
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Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: Extractor [base]
« Reply #26 on: February 01, 2013, 06:23:54 PM »
So I think you need to change the order of steps around and/or get rid of the part when you draw the target into the dreamscape.

More like re-word it so that you super-impose the dreamscape you design into their dream so that it becomes their dreamscape.
That's a good point. After all, a dreamscape could be nearly infinite, for all practical purposes. So you could set your "maze" up outside their current "field of view", but in a way that connects with their current dreamscape, and then lure them into it so that it seems like a natural, seamless transition, and doesn't alert them or their subconscious that something is "afoot".
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Offline sirpercival

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Re: Extractor [base]
« Reply #27 on: February 01, 2013, 06:44:06 PM »
Something else I thought of: this "extraction" should be capable only within the target's mind. That's why building and maintaining the dreamscape is so difficult and taxing (as opposed to normal): you're not making it in your own mind, but rather manipulating someone else's in such a way as to trap them within it, and trick them into revealing their secrets to you.

If all of this was done within your own mind, then your secrets would be the ones revealed in the end (when you crack the safe, etc).

The way its written now, it sounds like you're constructing this within your own mind and drawing them into it, but that's now how it worked in the movie, and I don't think that really makes sense here, either.

So I think you need to change the order of steps around and/or get rid of the part when you draw the target into the dreamscape.
  Actually, in the movie it's the extractor who's the dreamer (or a member of the extractor's team), and the target is pulled in and populates with its own subconscious projections.  I was going to have "populate" be a defending tactic...

Arias's method is damn cool, though.
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Offline ariasderros

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Re: Extractor [base]
« Reply #28 on: February 01, 2013, 07:37:25 PM »
Actually, in the movie it's the extractor who's the dreamer (or a member of the extractor's team), and the target is pulled in and populates with its own subconscious projections.  I was going to have "populate" be a defending tactic...
Just finished it. And this is indeed how it worked there. Thing is, this class already deviates a little. Here, she was right. Though seppuku would still not work as intended.

Still, amazingly fun and versatile class. Like a mental Sublime Rouge, in that it is a skillful class, that has unique methods to solve problems. And the way in which it uses Manouvers (from one school), Soulmelds, and Inspiration, yet manages to blend then in a simple and sensical manner is awesome.

Seriously, each one has its contributions, yet none of them over-power the others, and each one is presented in a way that you can almost pick up and go with it.

Flavour: awesome
Mechanics: awesome

Most of your classes, I regard as interesting, and they're things I'd use as a DM. Warcrafter is something I want to try as a PC. This one I have to play.



Just a personal preference point:

Would a feat that switches Wis for Int of the class features, and for Lucid Dreaming, be reasonable?
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Offline sirpercival

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Re: Extractor [base]
« Reply #29 on: February 02, 2013, 07:36:15 AM »
Actually, in the movie it's the extractor who's the dreamer (or a member of the extractor's team), and the target is pulled in and populates with its own subconscious projections.  I was going to have "populate" be a defending tactic...
Just finished it.
Thoughts? :D

Quote
And this is indeed how it worked there. Thing is, this class already deviates a little. Here, she was right. Though seppuku would still not work as intended.
Yeah, I think I'll have to change it to go with what you & phae suggested.

Quote
Still, amazingly fun and versatile class. Like a mental Sublime Rouge, in that it is a skillful class, that has unique methods to solve problems. And the way in which it uses Manouvers (from one school), Soulmelds, and Inspiration, yet manages to blend then in a simple and sensical manner is awesome.

Seriously, each one has its contributions, yet none of them over-power the others, and each one is presented in a way that you can almost pick up and go with it.

Flavour: awesome
Mechanics: awesome

Most of your classes, I regard as interesting, and they're things I'd use as a DM. Warcrafter is something I want to try as a PC. This one I have to play.
I'm glad you like it!

Quote
Just a personal preference point:

Would a feat that switches Wis for Int of the class features, and for Lucid Dreaming, be reasonable?
I think that would probably be ok.  I need some feats, actually... I'd forgotten.
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Offline ariasderros

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Re: Extractor [base]
« Reply #30 on: February 02, 2013, 02:00:43 PM »
Thoughts? :D
The ending was 'meh', but the rest was really good.

Quote
Quote
Just a personal preference point:

Would a feat that switches Wis for Int of the class features, and for Lucid Dreaming, be reasonable?
I think that would probably be ok.  I need some feats, actually... I'd forgotten.

Glad I could help give you the idea.  :whistle
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Offline Bozwevial

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Re: Extractor [base]
« Reply #31 on: February 06, 2013, 02:41:38 PM »
Minor thing I just noticed, but the weapon proficiencies still include weapons created by Infinite Shore maneuvers, which of course only create weapons with which you're proficient.
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Offline sirpercival

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Re: Extractor [base]
« Reply #32 on: February 06, 2013, 03:45:14 PM »
Minor thing I just noticed, but the weapon proficiencies still include weapons created by Infinite Shore maneuvers, which of course only create weapons with which you're proficient.
Hm... right.  OK, I'll fix that.
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Offline Concerned Ninja Citizen

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Re: Extractor [base]
« Reply #33 on: February 09, 2013, 01:27:51 AM »
Quote from: Soporific Vambraces
Soporific vambraces grant your touch the ability to put people to sleep.  You may make a melee touch attack as a standard action; if it succeeds, your opponent must make a Fortitude save or fall asleep.  On a failed save, or if your opponent is immune to sleep effects, the opponent is fatigued instead, for 1 round.

Should that be "on a successful save..." ?

Offline sirpercival

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Re: Extractor [base]
« Reply #34 on: February 09, 2013, 07:23:39 AM »
Quote from: Soporific Vambraces
Soporific vambraces grant your touch the ability to put people to sleep.  You may make a melee touch attack as a standard action; if it succeeds, your opponent must make a Fortitude save or fall asleep.  On a failed save, or if your opponent is immune to sleep effects, the opponent is fatigued instead, for 1 round.

Should that be "on a successful save..." ?
Yup.  I shall fix.
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Offline Concerned Ninja Citizen

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Re: Extractor [base]
« Reply #35 on: March 16, 2013, 06:09:49 PM »
When a Lucid Projection appears, is it considered to have performed any actions necessary to set up its powers?

That is, would a Wizard Lucid Projection appear with spells already prepared? Would a Ritualist Projection appear with a full complement of charged Rituals, etc?

Offline sirpercival

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Re: Extractor [base]
« Reply #36 on: March 16, 2013, 06:22:59 PM »
When a Lucid Projection appears, is it considered to have performed any actions necessary to set up its powers?

That is, would a Wizard Lucid Projection appear with spells already prepared? Would a Ritualist Projection appear with a full complement of charged Rituals, etc?
Hm.  I meant to say it was an Extractor.  So... I'll fix that.

My suggestion is that you come up with a soulmeld & maneuver loadout when you level up.  Then it comes with those.
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Offline Garryl

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Re: Extractor [base]
« Reply #37 on: April 25, 2013, 06:31:24 PM »
Are you at all concerned that Wandering Shoes essentially let anyone spend a feat (Shape Soulmeld) to gain a floating feat? Two feats (adding Open Least Chakra) removes the movement requirement, so any feat at all will work, rather than just a limited but significant subset.

Offline sirpercival

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Re: Extractor [base]
« Reply #38 on: April 26, 2013, 01:09:43 AM »
Are you at all concerned that Wandering Shoes essentially let anyone spend a feat (Shape Soulmeld) to gain a floating feat? Two feats (adding Open Least Chakra) removes the movement requirement, so any feat at all will work, rather than just a limited but significant subset.
I've thought about it... there are so many characters I've had where a floating feat would be nice.... hopefully it's not broken XD
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Offline Garryl

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Re: Extractor [base]
« Reply #39 on: April 26, 2013, 01:57:57 AM »
Are you at all concerned that Wandering Shoes essentially let anyone spend a feat (Shape Soulmeld) to gain a floating feat? Two feats (adding Open Least Chakra) removes the movement requirement, so any feat at all will work, rather than just a limited but significant subset.
I've thought about it... there are so many characters I've had where a floating feat would be nice.... hopefully it's not broken XD

At the cost of one feat, it's definitely broken. At the cost of two... eh... prossibly, maybes. It's on very shaky ground.

The biggest part is getting rid of the bit where one feat buys you a floating feat. Even if it's not compatible with everything, it's still compatible with way more than enough. For example, 24 hour invocations with Extra Invocation. Plus, you can spend a feat early and float it later on to a feat you didn't qualify for until much later (like turning a level 1 feat into Extra Invocation for a Greater invocation at level 16 once you get Dark invocations).

On a related note, expect a strongly worded letter to the Wyrm of War design committee, which lets you turn one feat into a floating feat, and later on turn it into two feats!