Author Topic: PBMC Thread & Build Compendium  (Read 17916 times)

Offline PlzBreakMyCampaign

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1962
  • Immune to Critical Hits as a Fairness Elemental
    • View Profile
PBMC Thread & Build Compendium
« on: February 04, 2013, 09:42:50 PM »
I've been hesitant about this for a while. Don't expect it done or useful for a while yet. The purpose of this are two fold.

A) I share my work out of the kindness of my heart. Feel free to pilfer these builds for other purposes. If you want to increase the builds original purpose, feel free to help me in the discussion thread.

B) To organize all of my threads, specifically to remind me of what needs to be done. Eventually it will all get done and I'll leave this up as an easy index for people to peruse. The topics that don't deserve importing and I think others wouldn't be interested in, I will spoiler.

The purpose is not for other to comment on ... well anything else. That's why I'm sticking this in handbooks without a discussion page. I don't care if you don't like the format or the fluff or how the mechanics are interpreted or how your day was. If for some reason you think I still would, PM me.

Offline PlzBreakMyCampaign

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1962
  • Immune to Critical Hits as a Fairness Elemental
    • View Profile
Re: PBMC Thread & Build Compendium
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2013, 01:47:10 AM »
Threads to Convert/Pilfer that aren't on old BG:
Base Class Reference & Tier Information
with generalist vs specialist ratings too. Compare Class Boosters for amount of material. For the Base Class Shrinking:
(click to show/hide)
Make sure RoC Handbooks are here & copied With Ideas Here
Compilation of Low Level builds
reroll on 1
Power Attack
Rerolls / actually condensed IP proofing suggestions
Indespensible Items
Summoning Handbook
Optimization By The Numbers
Add to an Artificer Handbook
Melee Combos Specifically the links at the end.
Peerless Fencer is decent Homebrew

Threads of Mine:

Threads to Make Here:
Campaign Difficulty Compendium
Try to feel generous and create a Graft Weapon Handbook.
Ability Source Index
Artificer Infusions Minihandbook
(click to show/hide)

Builds to Import:
Maximum Favored Enemies
Dex-based Swift Hunter
Crit-based. Check through:
(click to show/hide)

Other Well Known Kick-arse Builds:

Offline PlzBreakMyCampaign

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1962
  • Immune to Critical Hits as a Fairness Elemental
    • View Profile
Re: PBMC Thread & Build Compendium
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2013, 01:47:36 AM »
PBMC Balanced ECL Variant

ECL = Class levels + Racial & Template LA + if positive[RHD - 2*Racial LA]
Rather than:
RAW ECL = Class levels + Racial & Template LA + RHD

(with common sense restrictions):
0) This variant is done on a character by character basis. Some in the party might use this but, not all must. This is why its a 'variant' and is actually useful.

1) If a race has racial spellcasting related to its racial HD, remove that abilities racial power source up to it's RHD. For instance a psychic Illithid would have no psuedo psion levels but a Spellweaver would still have 2 psuedo sorcerer levels. Remember that this variant is done in a character by character basis allowing a psionic illithid to not use this variant while a spellweaver in the party may chose it.

2) BAB may not exceed ECL and RHD's BAB may not be used for prereqs. This makes the RHD's BAB feel like a "practiced BAB" feat since it adds for future, non-BAB-progressing class levels. This obviously stops BAB from exceeding 20 pre-epic. It turns out this doesn't really matter much even if the 21 and 26th BAB gave more iterations. Astute DM's will notice that the ability to hit things a few more times, or even enter non-caster classes early (as casters already do with reckless abandon) is actually a boon to their game's balance. Even if initially counter-intuitive DMs are encouraged to waive this restriction.

3) Skill points from racial HD do not allow a character to exceed the normal 3+ECL max since the HD no longer count towards the ECL. For most cases, this is surprisingly not that needed of a restriction considering the other RAW ways to exceed this cap. Therefore, DMs are encouraged to waive this restriction

4) Skill points for the first level are not added twice. A character with aberration/construct/elemental/giant/humanoid/magic beast/monstrous humanoid/ooze/plant racial HD and one class level may must use the crappy 4x(2+int) for their starting skill point allotment rather than chose their lovely 4x(8+int) rogue class levels as the starting skill points. DMs are encouraged to waive this restriction

5) The racial HD does not get con bonus to HP as class levels do. DMs are encouraged to waive this restriction if they want PCs with above average amounts of HP since HP is way too low compared to the damage both PCs and Monsters can receive anyways.

6) Natural healing rate is based off of ECL and so is not affected by the free racial HD, though this might seem a bit counter intuitive. If you want the RHD to help, it shouldn't make much of a difference, so DMs are encouraged to waive this restriction for any players not abusing natural healing rates. Heck, even if they are they will still be screwed by SoDs.

7) Per level option of LA or RHD counting towards the required level for buyoff. This makes buyoffs happen a bit earlier, which in turn helps the 99% of monsters with over-inflated LAs become playable. It goes without saying that players who use restoration cheese need a single iteration cap on each buyoff tier's level per LA row in the chart.

Q: Why do this in the first place?
A: Because half there is a large enough body of evidence to suggest that almost half the designers didn't realize that RHD do count towards ECL, RAW. Just like 90% of new players, some of them thought that the ECL was free. This is an adjustment factor for not only some of WotC's failings, but also for the caster divide.

Q: Why are all but two of the common sense restrictions encourged to be ignored? Why write them then?
A: Because these highlight changes a DM would notice upon instituting this variant

Q: Why are DMs actually encouraged to ignore the above restrictions? Wouldn't that make all monsters overpowered?
A: Because by ignoring the restrictions players can play their favorite monsters better. For instance with higher than 20 BaB. Yes it increases their power. But so does a haste spell. No one complains about that even though mechanically haste is superior (and RAW). People are aversed to change. I merely highlighted the fact that healing a bit more (wait, your group has to sleep for heals!?) or having some more HP (what do you mean your character doesn't use vigor+shared pain for +400% hp!?) or a few more skill points won't unbalance anything. Unless you are playing a tier 6 only game. In that case, yes having a +1 to spot from an extra rank might threaten your DM's painfully weak campaign.

Offline PlzBreakMyCampaign

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1962
  • Immune to Critical Hits as a Fairness Elemental
    • View Profile
Re: PBMC Thread & Build Compendium
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2013, 01:47:47 AM »

C8 is my attempt to exaggerate noncasting classes. Basically all casting progressions stay as is. All other class features progress at 2.5x normal speed: effectively squishing 20 levels of (often dead levels) into 8 levels of mundanity.

PrC levels that do not advance casting follow the 2.5 rule. Those that do progress casting follow a x1 progression. If this makes certain class features unaccessible, you have to use legacy champion (which is itself now not squished) to get up to those levels

Example 1: Carn the mundane decides to take Exotic Weapon Master. He takes the first level which gives all class features of the non-squished progression at once.
Example 2: Brie the wizard takes Initiate of the 7 fold veil. Its full casting progression does not squeeze down any and therefore the class feature progression is unchanged.
Example 3: Candy the sorcerer takes Acolyte of the Skin its 50% casting progression squeezes down until it bumps into other caster-progressing levels. This makes the PrC 5 levels deep.
Example 4: Bob the bard goes into sublime chord. But since it grants a casting progression, it is full length.
Example 5: Cully the cleric vampire takes the Lifedrinker PrC. Since it doesn't advance his casting, it is only a 4 level PrC.

Metagame: This encourages casters to lose out on caster levels for the more flavorful PrCs. Now those wizards don't just shrug and say, take Master Specialist because its there and full casting.
Non-progressioned base class abilities for casters do get squished, though. This again encourages casters to single class more.
Mundane's progressions can be gained all at once at its initial level if it isn't correctly divisible and it isn't the class's main progression. See Rogue as an example.

I've "done" the SRD to provide examples, along with a few other popular classes. Once you see enough examples, its not that hard to do on your own and there is so little room for "guesswork" that I don't feel the need to do the rest. Basically, its left as an exercise for the reader too to the obvious nature of how to do the above. Make it look pretty, dawg.

Offline PlzBreakMyCampaign

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1962
  • Immune to Critical Hits as a Fairness Elemental
    • View Profile
Re: PBMC Thread & Build Compendium
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2013, 01:48:17 AM »
Complete Iconoclasm


The D&D cosmological history is inconsistent, so we throw it out the window and replace it with a catgirl-killing evolution designed uncannily like our own before usual DnD race creation starts (a wizard did it). This isn't really anything special. Considering you are pulling in realism, it isn't that special of a fix for cross-setting play.

In addition to the dirty handbook fixes, no epic material, no artifacts, wish conglomeration, a sensical reading of the rules, etc, assume there were are 9th level spells for casters below ECL21. Basically each of these things is necessary for a campaign to hit ECL 20 without breaking down.

Creatures with divine ranks are basically just ECL 21 characters that gave into their pride so they could gain divine ranks (knowing full well that they would be worshipped as an idol). We of course assume that if it has stats, it can die.


First we might want to track down a group of genetically related individuals (probably elves which makes this easier) so we can stay on task for later. At the very least we will want to make sure that we don't have any unfavorable relations. A few divinations allow family tree research to get to each individual and offer a painless death [GW] potion with gentle repose (res them later if you want to be nice). Although there should be none, individuals who are rarely powerful enough to stop you and dumb enough to chose being removed from existence rather than resurrected, don't need to be killed by you at all. So no assumptions need to be made, and its optional if you don't mind some slowness.

We also have to make sure that we can open (and shut!) a portal to the Far Realms even while pressure is applied to make sure nothing comes in. No worries, though, we don't have to supply the pressure or the portal, only the location. We don't even have to plan this part until the real job is done. We will also have to get an agreement from what we send back to wait and block or help close the portal on the other side due to the time difference. "Other methods of reaching the Far Realm include ... finding the true Dreamheart past the Portal of Sleep. Luckily for the Material Plane, entities from the Far Realm have just as difficult a time finding passage out of their plane, though rare spells allow them to be summoned." [MotP212] Due to the fact that we will be escorting something with the ability to already planar travel regardless of conditions (which we can do too), all we need is a point where the travel can work. Normally for travel within the great wheel, this isn't a problem but we are taking extra precautions. All it takes to get to the Dreamheart is an 8th level wizard touch spell and a DC25 wisdom check with a minimal investment in a cross-class skill.

All we need to be is a LN knowledge domain cleric 5 (or 3 with earth spell) / Entropomancer 10 [CDiv37] and Void Disciple 1 [CDiv] + Hathran 1. This gives us the ability to contact a Sphere of Annihilation safely and to find anything viewable within 1000 miles once a day. We will be a female Sparrow Hengeyokai with Human Heritage. We will be born in Rasheman but move to (and therefore be home to) the land over an obliterated kingdom. We persist Draconic Polymorph [Drac79] so we can be an outsider and take Infernal Bargainer. That allows us to bind Essence of Shothrogat because it's fun making idols go crazy and attack their allies. We'll eventually put some oddly-shapped armor on it with the +5 enchancement Proof against Transmutation [CA142]. There are other necessary spellcasting services or items that will be mentioned as we go along. None are very expensive or difficult to procure.

The Main Course

Now let's look at Elder Evils page 80. By making a few Know(arcana) checks DC28-42, we know that the "god-slaying weapon" Pandorym plans to rip all idols from existence. Considering it and anyone mildly associated near it was wiped off the map by those same idols, it definitely seems able to do the job. We even have ToM (Tenebreous) references for what happens to something like that, even though it can't pridefully call itself a god anymore. A lowball on Pandorym's CR follows: 50% body, 50% mind with a CR25 mind shard taking 10% of the prison holding the mind means the full mind is atleast CR250, and combined Pandorym would be atleast CR500. Yeah, it can fulfill its mission.

Pandorym is a Far Realms creature "parallel to the great wheel" and that fits with being an immortal hyper-dimensional being "as powerful as deities." [MotP212] Theres also the fact that "Ancient elves once pierced the boundary of eons with a vast portal to the Far Realms but their civilization imploded in bloody terror and the portal's location is long-forgotten," so Pandorym might be a singular example of something big making it to the prime.

To keep Pandorym on-track we can try to have already taken care of all or nearly every descendant it cares about before its multi pantheon killing spree. This depends on how many millenia it has been in its prison. We can give it names for the remaining ones and it can hypercognition to make sure we didn't miss any very powerful, living ones.


Since this is CO, we aren't assuming any ridiculous interpretations. Portfolios only trigger on generally big things, otherwise the Change or Time or Knowledge, etc domains would be self-referential and end the multiverse. Keep in mind that messing with the areas around Pandoyrm often qualifies as important. Therefore we have been very careful with what we do and do not do:

We are not adventuring (direct goal without a party or XP rewards) and can't ever be an adventurer but there are other ways to gain XP. We won't be needing any emotions or arcane casting.  We can't be an artisan, archer, or engineer. We have no plans/strategy/tactics, just on-the-fly rash reactions thrown together sloppily and without pay. We haven't been studying any goals but we aren't stupid either. Think of it as using more charisma-based thinking. No luck factor is involved thanks to Aura of Perfect Order stance via items. There will be no cave traversing: it's straight to the complex. We won't be answering questions deceitfully or honestly until after all idols are removed. We don't mention idol's foresight so instead of communication, Pandorym just passively reads our mind.

Portfolio Crunching

Out of the 727 unique portfolios, here are a list the ones that come close to triggering and why they don't until we have Pandorym at our back:
*Dungeons/air if made not a dungeon* (vaccum seal outside wall of force in hallway out via body of pandorym pushing),
*Freedom* (only happens once we destroy prison from the inside. We can make the DC 45 will save every turn via atleast 12base will save+11 stance of perfect order+2iron will+6cumbrous will+6resistance+14wis easily with owl's insight),
*Future/Change* (for 20 weeks everything is normal, ie. nothing big changes before we break prison), *isolation* (We aren't isolated, so its not an "event"),
*Journeys* (we only go within line of sight after teleportation),
*Gems* (the crystal isn't actually one, and only a chunk is worth anything after its separation),
*Knowledge* (due to the way the knowledge skill works, we already knew about pandorym well before we decided to do anything crazy),
*magic/psionics/spells* (teleportation via amulet of the planes isn't direct magic itself or magic item artistry. Even if it does count under the portfolio, its unlike that binary knowledge of an amulet use would warrant the limited scrutiny among the twenty idos that might check, considering that portfolio competes with others and includes, well real every spell cast in the multiverse)
*Movement* (nothing big that "exists" moves until we are ready. Pandorym's body is specifically nonexistance),
*Protection* we should be using the below buffing routine for longer a long time so it is not unusual enough to warrant investigation besides maybe the first time when it is still boring,
*Righteous Action* (we are neutral and can simply will the action to not be considered all that 'good' even though wiping out idols does prevent idol worship),
*Running* (pretend we are at the pool),
*Secrets* (implies we are keeping this from others, but above, we instead making ad-hoc decisions. It's not anymore a secret than the fact that you farted while reading this),
*Sight* (don't look at pandorym's body or at anything in or around the mind's prison),
*Speed* (don't go fast),
*Spellcasters in General* (Don't cast new spells after the day's persist buffs. This hurts but is doable. As a cleric that doesn't only worship an idol, we can violate our own code of conduct. We can't prepare new spells around Pandorym anyway.)
*Intellect* (we'll have a +4 to the amulet of the planes roll so we don't have to use our intellect to make the check),
*Isolation* (we aren't isolated when we are with someone and can leave at any time),
*travelers* (we are only travelers if we move and aren't at home, so while initially teleporting around to find Pandorym's body, we don't move around).
*Time* (we aren't in the timestream for an 'event' until we want to be)

The Heist:

Get immunity to shaken(shriver)+ring of sustenance, the same Proof of Transmutation armor, mind blank, and magic circle against evil. We pull/push the body of Pandorym to the prison. When near we can drag it in with us. Since we are immune to disintegrate, we are alive in the prison. We need for 12.096 million (plus a few rounds worth of) seconds for a full telepathy reading to pass before we continue. Unfortunately we need to be outside the timestream as we aren't practically invulnerable like Pandorym. Thus we place ourselves in 78+3inches worth of quintessence (regurgitate it if necessary), pulling it into a seal with the last chunk. Since quintessence is outside the timestream, it shouldn't be destroyed by the prison. As long as the quintessence isn't rubbed away from us, it won't cease to exist at any point in time. After that Pandorym presumably ingulfs us (he can manage a hole, if necessary) to keep us safe and finishes the countdown for us.

Even "a tiny fragment" of his mind has a total of over 100 in mental stats. As a mind-crushing challenge to the world, it can figure out that we are waiting 20 weeks for portfolio reasons, before splitting us out to uncover us. Once we are uncovered, we immediately release a 11k Rod of Cancellation that pokes the wall at the place we appeared so it touches the inside of the prismatic wall. This negates the prison and frees pandorym's reunited mind and body. If you are worried about the prison disolving the Rod, consider a readied an action to immediate dismiss some persisted incoporeality with the magically resized magic item already out. There is no time between us being spit out and Pandorym being free. It is unlikely we would die immediately after that thanks to our Elder Evil buddies.

Also remember that we have Shothragot in there too. He might initially have Bracers of Spellsharing for persisted incorporeality, if you're really worried about blocking in the prison. Pandorym will figure out our intent (he can't initially hurt us easily before he's reunited, and he won't since we are helping). So idols themselves can't actually come battle Pandorym unless they are undead or severly nerfing themselves with draconic polymorph or incorporeality (Shift Form retains the outsider type). There are too few undead idols to worry about. That leaves only weaker minions (they require bracelets of spellsharing and with the armor enhancement for disintegration unless originally incorporeal) and they have to be (re)built to make the will save continuously but that's par with having lots of buffs.

Pandorym would probably crush them continuously even if they have magic circle against evil, mindblank, and were incorporeal, mainly because they would have to be entropomancers just to not get curb-stomped by the body. Real entropomancer aren't the correct type to go on a suicide mission. Training every suicidable creature with an LA (so it could become a PC and customize itself with levels in a PC class) to become an entropomancer is another bad option for the idols considering the time and XP needed. When said creatures fail, no one would likely res them. Since they are playing for a draw, said suicide minions know no one would ressurect if they succeeded. Therefore only the dumbest/most faithful servants would go up against something the gods fear aren't willing to fight themselves.

The Battle:

Or would they? They didn't last time, but that might be because the previous spellcasters had betrayed pandorym for them. So we are looking at an all-out fight to the death as their best chance. Then a minion or quasi-deity could wait the 20 weeks and break the crystal, assuming spells were still granted. Quasi-deity's aren't immune to disintegration so they would have to be buffed like the minions during the gank. Even assuming something managed to kill Shathragot:

There are 487 statted idols, assumably the nine alignments have equal pieces. Neutral and evil idols wouldn't self-sacrifice. Lawful Good ones would allow a fair fight and not continue the circumstances of betrayal. Chaotic Good ones won't line up for a cooperative fight and can't be trusted to not Leeroy Jenkins it. Only the Neutral Good ones would be useful, on average. If the top third have an average rank of 10 and their average HD is 40 then the CR Estimate indicates [D&D] 54 CR 50's or an ("Easy") EL of 170 for a CR 500 creature (0 XP when he wins). A 100% participation, coordinated gank raises the EL to "very difficult." For reference, I consider that the minimum difficulty optimizers should bother with (as a break from the usual "overpowering" kind).


I'm thinking team elder evil's got this. Even the wrap-up is nice.  Once we come back and free Pandorym might have to go take revenge on a bunch of innocent humanoids, but hey, we can't stop him. We can rebind Shathragot to follow him while he cleans up the stragglers. Tharizdun may have to be whiped out from the Astral last, causing Shathragot to possibly not exist anymore. Once Pandorym's rampage is over, we pay to send him home via Dream Travel [MotP202] from a nice wizard who doesn't want the multiverse to end (but might not ever exist anymore). A DC25 check and the dreamheart is a place where he can poke through to the Far Realm.

Once you see off your world-crushing friend, you will probably be epic. Its a good thing, because there are some very powerful creatures that are quite angry with you. Now you've got the same choice to make and can help assure no prideful idolators rise up again. Good luck.

Offline PlzBreakMyCampaign

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1962
  • Immune to Critical Hits as a Fairness Elemental
    • View Profile
Re: PBMC Thread & Build Compendium
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2013, 01:48:37 AM »
And here's where I put the Links to all of my uploads (link 1 link 2a 2b 2c) and its thread. Yes I realize it will be slightly self-referential.

Offline PlzBreakMyCampaign

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1962
  • Immune to Critical Hits as a Fairness Elemental
    • View Profile
Re: PBMC Thread & Build Compendium
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2013, 01:49:02 AM »
Build 1 World Record [Supermount by HD]

Interpretation Warnings:
   This build uses the interpretation that the Special Mount ability and a paladin's mount are interchangeable. The rationale is that because no other class in core has a special mount besides the paladin class, any abilities/feats/items,etc mentioning special mounts are in fact referencing all paladin-like Special Mount abilities.

   It also uses the interpretation that non-LG paladin-like special mount classes (including Paladin of Freedom, Tyranny, etc) should select appropriately aligned dragon mounts, instead of "only a lawful good dragon should be allowed to serve as a paladin's special mount" (Drac 139).

   It is clear from Table 3-13 that mounts may gain age categories in lieu of HD and from the advanced dragons rules that age categories depend on HD whilst time is the usual corollary.  I am also going with the conservative estimates on an advanced dragon mounts stats, since I would think the statistics for a great wyrm however are not bonuses.

   I also do not play semantics about abilities as class features versus abilities as well I don't know what. Basically abilities that are only available as class features in core are refered to as "the class feature X" or "X class feature" for prerequisites in order to help the player know where to find these abilities. This is basically the same logical as the Special Mount part above.

   These are more than reasonable interpretations, I trust. If you disagree, please do not post your reasons as I do not want to derail the thread. I will be more than happy to respond to these by PM and update the opening post if necessary.

Cheese Warning:
   This build makes heavy use of my Prestige Class Prerequisite Handbook and assumes a 'helping' character to make this build possible with no base classes. The character should be a CG warforged x / Warchanter 10 / Heartfire Fanner 1 / x with Words of Creation who follows the character around until just after level 5. After this point the build is self-sufficient. For extra cheese this character could know psychic reformation and save you some money, but my build has assumed this isn't the case. Note that this slipping, Belkar-like character shouldn't do anything very evil in the presence of his helper.

   I also assume we don't lose benefits from Animal lord by changing alignment on 1 axis. I don't put this under interpretations because we all know penalizing character evolution is not cool, but abusing it is cheesy. I just would think keeping the PrC's benefits is acceptable cheese.

The Build:
CN->CE LA bought off Amphibious Draconic Spiritfolk (bamboo) with a custom Major Bloodline similar to demon or titan (Skin of the Celestial for 6k [MiC169] is preferable to the celestial template)

Animal Lord (Bear) 1 / Waverider 1 / Demonomicon of Iggwilv: Baphomet 1 / Beast Master 1 / Arcane Heirophant 10 / Legacy Champion 6

First 5 levels extremely cramped feats (assumes WBL):
1) Magical Training, Endurance (flaw), Skill Knowledge[Handle Animal&Intimidate->Knowledge(Arcana)*] (flaw)
1) Enter 2 Pacts Insidious for Precocious Apprentice & Mounted Combat
1) Serving an Elder Evil gives a vile feat -> Mounted Archery {@ level 2}

1-3, but HD3 feat) Skill Focus (Handle Animal) from Inspire Greatness HD

2) Power Attack Bloodline Feat
{2} Become Necropolitan right before 3 then Psychic Reformation a moderate taint feat 1 into Great Fortitude by paying a Psion 14 for a manifesting and some PP
{2} Psychic Reformation a severe taint feat 2 into Improved Bullrush

3) Thrall to Demon
{3} The Frog God's Fane location Skill Focus feat -> Skill Focus (Handle Animal) [removed for possible TO]

4) Eschew Materials Bloodline Feat
{4} Ritual of Prophecy's Dragon Prophecier feat -> Santuary Spell

{5} Otyugh's Hole's locations' Ironwill feat -> Practiced Caster
{5}  Elder Evil vile feat -> Obtain Familiar

{}= use one of three ML1 Psychic Reformations from one of two ML1 Soul Crystals from a twice-paid Psion 14 (70+40*4gp each)

*Just before taking the level of Arcane Hierophant this character will Psychic Reformation the skill knowledge feat to work with Knowledge Arcana instead of Intimidate.

Note that Bamboo Spiritfolk cast speak with animals as a divine spell (the default is druid in this case) which is bumped by santuary spell. Unfortunately the divine casting for Arcane Hierophant advances nothing and the arcane casting only adds for familiar levels via the obtain familiar feat.

The rest of the feats in no particular order:
6 Theurgic Mount
9 Theurgic Bond
{10} Natural Bond (buy a Psychic Reformation even without Soul Crystal)
12 Dragon Steed
15 Holy Mount
{15} Devoted Tracker
18 Winter's Mount (the +2con is already added to the stats below)
{20} any

Note: When the helper character ditches, bump each feat up so Winter's Mount is the level 20 reformatted feat and take Skill Focus (Handle Animal) as your current feat.

Why each class level is optimal:
0-1 The animal lord buffs Effect Druid Level if you have an animal companion (later) and can be entered at ECL1 (this is very, very hard!)

1-2 Waverider advances an aqautic( = must have swim speed and breathe water) Special Mount by ECL not by class level

2-3 Demonomicon of Iggwilv: Baphomet gives a unique, fiendish animal companion with effective druid level doubled
   Note: animal lord and natural bond don't advance the animal companion-giving class, they seperately advance effective druid level - great for rangers, not as good for us.

3-4 Beast Master gives a unique, hefty animal companion buff to our animal companion giving class

4 -14 Arcane Heirophant gives divine and arcane bumps to our Special mount thanks to Holy Mount and Theurgic Mount, gives familiar bonuses which we double dip on our animal companion thanks to the wording of Obtain Familiar combined with Theurgic Bond, and full advances our animal companion-granting class which is doubled because of Demonomicon of Iggwilv: Baphomet. Whoa

14 - 20 Legacy Champion continues 5 more shadow levels of Arcane Hierophant

Critter tracking, or you got a 99HD dragon how?:
First the silly animal lord animal thing is opted out of / goes away upon gaining our animal companion

Second our normal-ish aquatic animal companion can die / get rechosen into a dragonel thanks to the Dragon Steed feat. Then once we have enough mount boosts use the Special Mount rules to gain a Young then Juvenile Black dragon as per DracoNOMicon's Table 3-17 (since we are CE, not LG)

We gain a familiar via the Obtain Familiar feat. Since we count as a Wizard 1 from Magical Training we then advance the caster level necessary for the feat through Practiced caster. Our familiar level bumps are based on the sum of our arcane caster level, which gets adding into our animal companion bumps thanks to Theurgic Bond.

   Note: I assume that this feat stack twice by first taking the feat for a Familiar/Animal Companion by dumping all the bonuses from the Animal Companion/Familiar into the Familiar/Animal Companion and then get them back again on the Animal Companion/Familiar upon retaking the feat with the Animal Companion/Familiar in mind. It cries unnamed bonus foul. See? I really do take the reasonable interpretation...

Upon taking Arcane Heirophant levels we ditch our Familiar to give its bump gains apply to our Animal Companion. Pretty standard.

Then upon taking the devoted tracker feat we ditch our Animal Companion to give its bump gains apply to our Special Mount. "The mount gains all the benefits of being both your special mount and your animal companion." Since being my animal companion also gave it those lovely familiar bonuses, those carry over too. Pretty standard. Except remember that special mount is a dragon :smallbiggrin:

Total stats of the still aquatic black dragon Special Mount counting as Animal Companion with heavy Familiar bonuses:
Arcane Hierophant Gains including Legacy Weapon bumps
15*2+(4+1)*2 AC via familiar from casting
15*2 AC via straight familiar
15*2+3*1 straight AC
15+15mount via feats

Animal Lord = 1*1 AC
demoNOMicon of Iggwilv: Baphomet = 1*2 AC
Waverider = 20 mount (calculated by ECL)
Beast Master = 4*2 AC
3*2 AC from major bloodline

AC = 40+30+33+11 = 120 -> +70HD, +70nat, +35str, +35dex, 36bonus tricks

mount = -17+30 = +13 -> +6HD, +6nat, +3str, above ECL20WR (-17 for black juvenile dragon as mount)

Waverider = +10HD, +8Nat, +7Str

45th level familiar gains = +22nat, 15+12int, 50SR, familiar spell feat
+86HD, +119nat, +45Str, +35Dex, 36bonus tricks

What does this make our beefed up dragon look like?:
Black dragon juvenile:13HD requires 24hd to be great wyrm (62/3->20 age categories)

20 x Advanced Colossal++ Great wyrm Black dragon 99d12+(643+*99hp) with 15/epic DR and 11 bonus improved spell capacity's

120Str, 45dex, 69con, 47int, 41wis, 40cha, +99BAB/+170Grapple, +154Attack, +80Fort, +68Refl, +66Will, 64d4BW (DC88), 74Fightful Presence

70'land, fly 300'(clumsy), swim 60' +17initiative, 223 201AC (-8 size, +217 195 natural, +17dex), touch 19, flat-footed 206 184, CL 55th, 90SR

   Note: I did remember the familiar 50SR, and 27int and +10'. The up to great wyrm additions don't stack for me because I am (again) taking the conservative position, but the advanced bonuses after that do add to this from the familiar gains.

Animal Companion special qualities:Link (unneeded), share spells, Evasion, Devotion, Multiattack, Improved evasion.

Special Mount: Improved Evasion, Share Spells, Empathic Link, share saving throws (uneeded), speak with animals of its kind (uneeded), Fast Movement, Spell Resistance (not as good as familiar's).

Familiar special qualities: Alertness, improved evasion (already has), share spells (already has), empathic link (already has), Deliver touch spells, speak with master & animals of its kind (already has), Spell resistance (stackage mentioned), Scry on familiar.

Adding the Wyrm of War sovereign archetype (DoE32) gives twenty-four bonus fighter or draconic-ability-related feats

Final "You missed one!" note:
   Sadly in order to maximize HD, I did not include either the mildly questionable but totally awesome fleshgrafter PrC to perhaps gain Colossal++ size

   I also know that I did not make the dragon my Cohort so it counts as a "Cohort Aquatic Special Mount Familiar Companion 1337 Rofl Rofl" build through use of the Dragonrider PrC (Dragonlance campaign Setting). Sorry.

   Finally I have now 4 versions of this build. The one I haven't mentioned anything about so far was a slightly less HD version which tried Windrider, Dragonrider, Ranger Knight, and Uncanny Tricksterx3 instead of Legacy Champion. Neither that nor Prestigious Paladin were optimal.

Finally if this offends your sense of decency (whilst it should - it has nearly sold its soul and serves an elder evil!) be nice. I revised this a few times and I might have missed something that I did not mention. The parts I did mention (mechanically, the numbers might be off) I trust are correct.

Non-build note:
Worshiping Azor'alq with the mounted feat allows the Sacred Steed feat (Dun Mag 104 108) for +1 Special Mount level, but it doesn't make a difference in the above build.

Please note that the absurdly overpowered zhentanim skymage is not used for this class. With a cohort for heavy DMM-swapped buffs, its possible to get a slightly higher base HD mount but requires some prereq shenanigans (see my handbook on that) and feels wrong. I like the whole "I have one big pet" feel. Finally the real strength of this build is that ZS's can only have set number of 'replacement' mounts if theirs dies. Yes you can cheese out 10 but its still a yucky limitation true animal companions don't have.

An Older, weaker, perhaps more 'acceptable' version I don't keep up anymore:
Code: [Select]
NG Strongheart Halfling with Aquatic template

[b]The Advancement[/b]
[Spoiler]UA Ranger 1 / Druid 3 / UA Wizard 1 / Windrider 1 / Waverider 1 / Halfling Outrider 1-6 / Dragon Rider 1 / Halfling Outrider 7-10 / Arcane Heirophant 1 / Fleshwarper 1

[Note Bloodlines help absolutely no aspect of this build because none of it has no true calculations, only continued epic advancements and charts. And yes I know there is no Beast Master; at this point a size increase is way cooler than 2 more HD, swap it in if you want]

[color=red]Warning:[/color] the build unfortunately requires some swapped divine power around 6th level. This is not to hard to overcome and is only a temporary hurdle.[/Spoiler]

[Spoiler]These slightly out of order (this build has flaws and a legacy weapon): Mounted Combat, Mounted Archery (as the variant wizard's fighter feat), Eschew Materials, Natural Bond, Bonded Familiar, Theurgic Bond, Flesh Grafter (Silthilar), Holy Mount, Winter's Mount, Sanctum Spell [for the arcane heirophant prereq], Devoted Tracker, Theurgic Mount, Dragon Steed

Have your dragon take the Dutiful Guardian & Constant Guardian feats :)[/Spoiler]

[b]The HD boosts[/b]
[Spoiler]Animal Companion Boosts
Base Classes = 3
Halfling Outrider=15
natural bond = 3
Hierophant = 1
Theurgic Bond = 3
Mount Class Boosts:
Wave Runner = 20
-20 Full Dragon Mount (check out the draconomicon if you don't believe me)
Halfling Outrider = 10
Holy Mount = 6
Theurgic Mount = 3

The Dragon Rider allows a dragon cohort my ECL+3. So the HD boosts are on top of a creature of 23 base Hit Dice.[/Spoiler]

[b]Total Class Advancements to the Mount[/b]
[Spoiler]Wave Runner (19) +8HD, +6Nat, +6Str
Windrider +2HD, +4Nat, +2Str
Dragon Rider +2HD, +2Nat, +1Str
Animal Comp (24) +18HD, +18Nat, +9Str, +3Dex, 10 Tricks
+30HD, +30Nat, +18Str, +3Dex, 10 Tricks
for a total of 53HD, a dozen more than a non-advanced Gold Dragon

or if epic dragons are okay: HD23 Wrymling Prismatic Dragon with enough HD to be a Colossal Mature Adult[/spoiler]

[center][u]The Heading into Interpretation Territory[/u][/center]

[b]Step by step how we get our dragon mount-cohort-familiar companion[/b]
[Spoiler]Lost? Okay, we started with a random familiar (lets say a classic rat) and animal companion (classic dog). Then we [b]may[/b] ride a whatever (preferably flying) thing [a griffin is fine temporarily] for windrider, but really don't have to since we will swap it out later. Next we get an aquatic special mount, a normal hippocampus. This brings us to 4 special critter categories.

The Dragon feat would replace our hippocampus with a dragonnel, which is not aquatic. This would be a problem so before you take the feat go ahead and let the hippocamus die since the swapping of mounts might activate the year and a day wait anyways. By a mean DM it means we simply won't have a mount for a while (dragonnel or otherwise). That is fine since our goal is to use that gold dragon again after he's grown up a bit and we have a high enough effective special mount level to use a gold dragon as our waverider mount.

But can we do that? Yes because 1) our mount is a dragon and 2) it has to be aquatic. When we look up the subtype in the SRD it says an aquatic creature is one that breathes water and has a swim speed (Yup that sounds aquatic to me!). So when we look on the Draconomicon's chart the only dragon like for a LG paladin-ish character (as opposed to a evil blackgaurd-ish one) is a gold dragon.

So [i]eventually[/i] we will have a gold dragon as our windrider and waverider special mount, which brings us down to 3 critters since we won't get that hippocamus back. Then we take the devoted tracker feat which makes the special mount count as the animal companion. Though we are still waiting on our a aquatic dragon mount we can ditch our animal companion bringing us to 2 critters.

In between the halflingling outrider level we take a level of Dragon Rider we can have a dragon cohort that is older (this puts the max strain on a paladin's mount level). We ride it and replace the griffon or whatever with the older gold dragon. We also choose that as our aquatic mount+animal companion when the wait time is up.

After the arcane heirophant level we ditch the familiar and make aquatic 'wind ridden' dragon cohort mount that is a companion to be our companion familiar. After a level of fleshwarper the HD stackage is complete and the massive HD boosts use the advancing dragons rules to put our gold dragon cohort mount to colossal size. Since it has 53HD, by the advanced dragon rules that means it becomes Colossal+. Fleshwarper then uses its class ability to bump this up permanently to larger than the largest possible size: Colossal++?[/Spoiler]

[b]What do we end up with?[/b]
[Spoiler][url=]The SRD[/url] gives us a:
Great, Great Super-Duper Uber Wrym Gold Dragon (+28 Base Saves)
nat 53
32d10 Fire cone (reflex) or 16 Str Drain (fort) 51DC
SR41 (~19)
300' fly
Str53, con41, int&cha40, Wis41 (-4 it appears), still dex=10
Caster level 41
DR now epic (not down 5 to get that though, right?)
Frightful presence 49 like other advances? Maybe not  :(

**Also be sure to have your dragon take the Wyrm of War option (DoE31). It loses access to Cleric Domains but gains a fighter or draconic bonus feat for every 4 Hit Die he possesses! It also gains proficiency with all simple and martial weapons and all armor.[/spoiler]

Note: some people do not consider the familiar companion to gain this ability due to a technicality of trying to decide want counts as a "familiar"... I say a 'familiar' 'companion' is a type of familiar which allows the fleshwarper targeting but I understand if your DM says "eh" to that. In that case bust out a larger monstrosity on him by reworking the fleshwarper level and going beastmaster for a [drum roll] 55 HD Colossal sized mount. Unfortunately this path has no Colossal+ size so I think of it as subpar.[/spoiler]

A final cheese warning if you haven't had enough. Although Arcane Hierophant probably doesn't count by RAW, there is a paladin sub that will let the mount count as a familiar. That allows covering the one weakness of the supermount without the usual, ALWAYS BANNED shenanigans like mind jar, astral seed, and fusion etc. See Dragon Magazine 280p63.

Offline PlzBreakMyCampaign

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1962
  • Immune to Critical Hits as a Fairness Elemental
    • View Profile
Re: PBMC Thread & Build Compendium
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2013, 01:49:10 AM »
Build 2 The World Record by Default [Triple 9's (9th level Wizard+Cleric+Psion casting/manifesting)]

(Edit: Even years later, I've not found anyone able to make a regular CO triple nines build that had full psion manifesting. Adent simply doesn't.) After much deliberation I finally built a non-rebuilding 999s build. But this isn't just any triple nines. This is a cleric-wizard-psion list one - aka the big kahuna. Yeah, the only one everyone cares about. There are much weaker "ardent-language abuse" 999's that don't require cheese. Also keep in mind that depending on your position on requirements checking, it might be possible to do this much, much easier. However I think I speak for most players when they would (for whatever reason) more or less follow the Stump the Sage ruling of 'rebuilding can't be used to get something not otherwise possible.'

Build Details
Psion 1, Beholder Mage 1, Cerebremancer 9, Ur-Priest, Psychic Theurge 8

You will want to be a quinamentin. You will not want that pesky 2HD. So before you take your first class level simply grab a negative level (fail the save so that the HD loss is permanent). Then take the psion 1 level (you may swap your 1 humanoid HD for this level). Then continue to buyoff the LA. Or you could just be any humanoid and be reincarnated into one (improbable, but possible).

Psychic Theurge can be found here and Cerebremancer can be found here

Cheesiness Warning (aka requires some good circumstances)
Legend: Most Cheesy/Most CO, Least Cheesy/Hurts the most
I'll even say the least cheesy is the one I think of, and what I could see actually being used

0. Everyone knows evil does it better but with a bit of cheese you can be of any alignment. Rather than devote yourself to an Elder Evil you could just borrow an Aquamarine of Spell Extending and then soak up a metamagic storm. While the auqamarine requires forbids an interpretational move (the 'benefit' language is unclear, and sometimes I go against the RAW in games to make only 'benefit' items not be allowed for pre-reqs), the metamagic storm could seem a bit TO.
1. It uses either a slightly unkosher purposely gained permanent negative level (available by many methods) or if your DM wants you to actually pay for it you could just be in debt for a reincarnate.
2. Uses the RAW but unnerving Divine Minion template for the Wild Shape ability or if you could just burrow (read have access earlier than can be bought) a Wildshape Amulet, Skin of Kaletor, Mantle of the beast, and ring of the beast and though its a bit steep we can easily later pay it back many, many times [Note the WS route uses the Bloodline level after an arbitrary class level which is sucked away by a permanent level].
3. This build needs one of three options. A) a party member who is four levels up B) a friendly enough NPC to manifest chirurgery with payment later or C) A buy non-standard power stone with psychic chirurgery at manifestor level 1 or 2 (again possible, but strange). Keep in mind this is only for a temporary prereq and in no way effects the end of the build. If the chirurgery were to be undone after level 4, it wouldn't make a difference

All in all these specific circumstances are not unreasonable.

The Full Feat Breakdown
1 aberrant blood, flaw=aberrant wild shape, flaw=Proportionate Wild Shape

2[Absolutely any major bloodline -> Psychic Reformation] assume supernatural ability (Antimagic Cone)
 *   Borrow Aquamarine of Spell Extending (3.7k) to get a metamagic feat
 *   Soak up a metamagic storm for Sanctum spell
 *   Borrow a Torc of Power Preservation to manifest (with overchannel) 2nd level powers at level 2
OR:   Serve an elder evil and Psychic Reformation in Practiced manifester rather than burrowing the Torc
   Become Necropolitan (possible late in the second level)
   Grab Moderate and then severe taint, both of which give a reformable feats that you can pay for at the next level
3 assume supernatural ability (eye rays)
6 iron will
9 malign spell focus
12 x [practiced manifestor seems unneeded]
15 x [can practiced spellcaster even apply? I'm lazy by now]
18 x [practiced spellcaster again?]

Level Summary
   Negative level absorbtion or Reincarnate (druid 4 spell with cost of 1280)
Psion 1
   Borrow a Wildshape Amulet or take the 1 LA from the Divine Minion Template  :hide
Beholder Mage 1

Then mix and match a few of the following:
   Borrow a Torc of Power Preservation or take the practiced manifestor feat
   Take the versatile spellcaster feat or if going the sanctum spell route Borrow an aquamarine of spell extending or take the feat then soak up a metamagic storm
   Take the Skill Knowledge feat (UA81) or be much smarter than me so you can find a way get the educated feat (requires level 1) in this build (note that if you start a different race, an 'other' reinc removes bonus feats)

   That last one atleast, requires one of these. I will listed in order of cheese):
   Be non-evil and summon a Demon (450gp for an NPC casting) and offer to do enough evil (cast 4 evil spells is enough) to get a feat. This can be done twice
or:    Be CE + devoted to an Elder evil for a feat that will need reformating.
or:    Become necropolitan, gain moderate and servere taint, and get Psychic Reformations (they cost 485gp +25xp)

   psychic chirurgery twice (13060gp, 2000xp) for 2nd level powers
   Bloodline level here to allow skill pre-reqs thanks to Skill Knowledge

Cerebremancer 9
Ur-Priest 1
Psychic Theurge 8

Adding any Martial Maneuvers, any Incarnum Chakras, up to 4th Level Bindings, and 2nd level True-Naming!
What? You are greedy for more? Okay, you little munchkin, hold on to your butt. First, take out that extraneous Ceremancer level. It's not like an extra 8th and two extra 9th slots will help all that much.

Maneuvers: You could simply add a level of swordsage for 5th level maneuvers off of the largest list of the three initiator classes. But since you are reading about getting even more than a full tripple nines, that's probably not going to satisfy. Instead, or perhaps in addition buy the Crown of the White Raven (and its variants) for any level maneuver at a cost of only up to 22.5k (and 1.8k xp) a pop to craft. If for some reason you need a bunch of low level maneuvers, you can always get a legacy weapon and armor for some feats and then martial stance / study up to 5th level ones.

Incarnum: Incarnum is like binding. Pick something you really want and work around it. Grab shape soulmeld and the applicable Open least/lesser/greater Chakra and have fun. Remember that you can always Split Chakra a space you need a magic item for. also having lots of incarnum won't make much of a difference unless you find several chakras that all highly benefit from essentia. In this case, Expanded Soulmeld Capacity (5 essentia per chakra now) and Bonus Essentia are a must. It gives 2 and the rest give 1: midnight augmentation, healing soul, incarnum spellshaping, cobalt critical, cobalt charge, cerulean fortitude, cerulean relfexes, cerulean will, azure toughness, azure talent, midnight dodge, midnight metamagic, sapphire springt, soulsight, soultouched spellcasting are all applicable for a caster. Keep in mind most of these simply suck on their own. Aside from essentia needs you can get any of the nifty abilities you want for 2 feats (+1 if u want that magic item slot open and +1 if you want two chakras that are in the same place), then add shape soulmeld for every extra chakra (+5 feats per maxed essenita's chakra). Or you could risk the dispel, the spell or psionic versions will replace the first two feats.

You could try the sub-par Bind vestige and perhaps with practiced binder. But the list really doesn't have anything a munchkin of your level could (ab)use. This is where a level of binder could actually help, since the feat doesn't allow you to advance your EBL (effective binder level). But thanks to your bloodlines and the improved binder feat just you can bind up to fourth level vestiges. Which is not too shabby. Again let me reiterate that binder abilities are simply not as useful as maneuvers when compared level per level and overall.

True-Naming: Wait I think you are in the wrong section... we should all know how much this magic source blows. First of all don't even think of taking a level in this class. There are ways to boost your feats so you actually have the extra left over to do this. Grab Truenaming Training, Minor Utterance of the Evolving Mind x2 and Utterance of the Evolving Mind. There now you have 2nd level utterances. Also the crafted tool and Perfect map can be used, but there is no second level utterance version. Because the Recitation feats are useless, that's all. See? Didn't that suck? I warned you.

On the manifesting side you end up with 3 1st level powers and 30 powers of any level (I think). Another 22 and a half percent more doesn't really matter when you already have 280pp, especially when you have nine times your int mod in bonus pp (10x after practiced manifestor if you really want). Full BM casting is yummy: 5 9th levels and 6 of all lower level spells. The last level of ur-priest is almost dead so its really not worth it, since your 9th level divine casting will mainly come from bonus spells (6/5/4/4/4/4/3/2/1/0 rather than 6/5/5/4/4/4/4/3/2/1). Bonus Ninth level spells come with a wisdom score of 28,36,44, etc. It shouldn't be too hard to pick up a few.

Offline PlzBreakMyCampaign

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1962
  • Immune to Critical Hits as a Fairness Elemental
    • View Profile
Re: PBMC Thread & Build Compendium
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2013, 01:49:31 AM »
Build 3 World Record [Rebuke and Command undead by HD]

Thread Summary:
Quote from: First Post
I prefer to stay on the edge of the optimization here - doing strange attempts at records few care about. Apparently though this one is interesting (for other people said so ( This is without UMD abuse. Various parts were added at different times. First was doomdreamer, last was how the Necrothane's rebuke undead is SURE to stack, which led to Atropal Scion. I also just before posting redid the PrC structure. Usually it is not hard to grab lots of high HD undead an evil character. But its a lot harder to maintain full rebuking and (mostly) full casting as a neutral cleric. Here we go:

The Build:
*TN, *LN, or *LE Halruuan Human eventually worshiping Wee Jas with the Magical Training and Versatile & Practiced Spellcaster feats. Grab a major bloodline if necessary.

Cloistered cleric 4 (domains: knowledge, spell and animal or scalykind) [Improved Turning]
Paragnostic Apostle 5 (See Through the Veil x3, Mortal Coil x2) [Spell Focus(Necromancy)]
Doomdreamer 1 [RttToEE162] (rage, mage armor and magic missile from anyspell) choose Kiss of undead (Su) so we will need an int of 20, which is no problem at this level.
Bone Knight 10 [Divine Energy Focus, Assume Supernatural Ability, Weapon Focus, Stitched-Flesh familiar. You might as well spell-stitch your familiar and yourself if you are undead. If you are you can get 2 Psychic Reformat-able taint feats to throw on DMM persist goodies... allowing Persistent buffs on others]

Starting Rebuking and Command Undead Calculations
What we need to boost is our Effective Cleric Level, here-after called the EclerL. Keep in mind it is the Doomdreamer PrC that makes this number twice as high. That makes our Commandable undead HD equal to our EclerL rather than half it.

Classes: 5+(*4+2)+0+9+3=21

The Check:
a charisma check of 10 will assure EClerL
We get this automatically by:+2 from Knowledge(Religion) with 5 ranks
+3 cloak of chasima +6
+4 venerable age & Tome of Leadership and Influence
a roll of 1 will still achieve the DC

Magic Items and Enhancements: 4+1+3+4+2*4+4+4=28
*+4 icon of ravenloft (ECR214, 18,000gp)
*+1 Flametouched Iron material for Holy Symbol (Eberron Campaign Setting, +750 gp)
*+3 Scepter of the Netherworld (Libris Mortis, 9,000gp)
*+4 Phylactery of Undead Turning (Dungeon Master's Guide, 11,000 gp)
*+8 Sacred Armour/Shield Special Ability (BoED 112) on a Chain Shirt, a Chahar-aina (from OA), Dastanas (also from OA) and a Shield for 4+4+4+8=20k
+4 Ruby Blade (CD 100 46,902gp, worship Wee Jas and costs 6th level spell slot)
*+4 Legacy level 2nd category 1 space "Pelor's Baneful Eye" [WoL76] (obviously optimal in custom Legacy Weapon form)
*+4 Legacy holy symbol "Turning Grace +4" [WoL73] takes up several slots. The ability does not disclude rebuke
Other Form Stackage: 20 via draconic polymorph or 25 via shapechange :embarrass
Neither Moonfriend or Inspire Turning (bard ACF): +2 (replaces inspire competence, requires bardic music use) help due to the proc'ing language.

At level 12: If you are not being cheesy prepare greater anyspell (from spell domain) in your domain spot and use your pretty much empty spellbook to prepare draconic polymorph. With some prayer beads you will need another +3CL to become Necrothane.
At level 20: if you are into that sort of thing you can shapechange into a 25HD Atropal Scion. It gets you only +5 more than the other two forms. Most DMs however will ban this spell with a justifiable knee-jerk reaction so this is not a big focus.

Other: 1+1+3+{8+[2]} -> 5+{10} = {15}
+1 Bloodtouched Rite (PGtE 23)
*+1 Improved Turning feat
*+3 Major Bloodline [This does not count against Effective Character Level]
*+8 Light of Wisdom spell (CC p124) [Cleric 3 w/ 22 CL after reserves of strength] (prayer beads and an ioun stone help if your DM is a stickley and your are persisting this) {without persist this might not help for the HD total among multiple undead}
[edit:]*+2 Inspiring Turning Bard Alternate Class Feature {A construct/undead cohort or something you could keep this up 24/7 if you need the extra total HD commanded in total} (note it does work with rebukes also since it mentions the destroy undead ACF, which though a separate DMM-able pool, is not counted in CoDzilla or his cohort with the max pool build due to a lack of a another separate cleric base class to use it with)

See the double cheesy dipping section for the *

Things that Help Commanding high HD undead, but do not help controlling lots of HD's worth:
*+2 Divine Energy Focus (it helps get half of that 4 higher than EClerL turned/rebuked but not commandable)
-4 Turning Resistance Rod of Defiance (MIC, 7,312gp) (not included for total commandable undead HD)
-4 Turning Resistance Lyre of the Restful Soul [DC15 perform] (Libris Mortis, 3,000gp) (not included for total commandable undead HD)

Things that help controlling lots of HD's worth but do not help commanding high HD undead: just 4
+4 Stitched-Flesh Familiar feat (This rather worthless bonus is not in the extra cheese build)

The Totals:
21+32+(20 or 25)+{15}+10 = a 98 or 103 HD undead commanded at one time
[21+32+(20 or 25)+{15}+4]*2 = 184 or 194 HD worth of undead controlled in sum

Quote from: MASSIVE EDIT
Abusing the Good Lich Template (using the savage progression, of course)
It might seem a bit cheezy, but by starting LN and going LG we could take the Good Lich template (MoO'F90) at level 12. It has the possibility for 3 very yummy abilities, one neat one and one silly one. The newer LM156 entry agrees on the turning aspect we want to take but from the Baelnorn entry in MoO'F it clearly can't completely override the earlier entry. So it could seemingly grant turning and (extra) rebuke EclerL equal to our "level" which is in case would be our ECL, a retributive turning (but not rebuking as turning/destroying) immunity, permanent water walking, and the 3/day hour long, mile away 20AC 20' perfect flying projection that sees into the ethereal and give 50% of its damage but can't be turned dispelled (it can only push or move small things).

The key ability is the additional turn AND additional rebuke that scales with level. We then buyoff that LA. This is where things seem a bit TO. Why? Its a fact that characters willing to can get temporarily negative levels can temporarily reduce their ECL only to get those levels restored at a later time by repeated castings of the restoration spell. So for a character who has access to this spell, he can fully reduce more than an LA3 pre-epic. Indeed even an LA of 6 can be fully bought off (the XP penalty is huge though) with this rather obvious trick.

But wait undead are not subject to level drain. So this doesn't work for them. Also consider that all other means of becoming undead do not allow you to become good. However you became undead, you can't simply character evolve one step into a different alignment, just like a Prestige class would not let you. The The Good Lich template is the exception. Note that things like helm of opposite alignment or mindrape are mind-affects with undead are immune to. We then qualify for the Risen Martyr (BoED 68) prestige class, unlike any other undead. You can then gain negative levels and slowly restore them yourself at each buyoff level.

Our extra cheese build now looks like this:
LN -> LG (anytime before level 7) Major titan bloodline Dwarf eventually worshiping Wee Jas with the Versatile Spellcaster (if your DM doesn't think spontaneously casting cure spells, just be a fully spontaneous cleric), Extend Spell(flaw), and Sanctum Spell(flaw) feats

Cloistered cleric 2 (domains: knowledge, spell and animal or scalykind)
*Paragnostic Apostle 5 (See Through the Veilx3, Mortal Coilx2) [Spell Focus(Necromancy), Persistent Spell]
   This gives a nice +3CL to our polymorph and shapechange so that we only need prayer beads and a consumable
   Also at ECL5 we get a bonus feat from our Legacy weapon. Lets take [Divine Metamagic (persistent spell)]
Doomdreamer 1 (I can cast rage, mage armor and magic missile from anyspell) choose Kiss of undead (Su) so we will need an int of 20, which is no problem at this level.

Now we psychic reformation the useless Titan bloodline feat improved sunder and versatile spellcaster and sanctum spell feats into Weapon Focus (warhammer), Great Fortitude and Armor Proficiency (heavy). Now we can have divine power on all day and we qualify for the The Faith Scion PrC even if we never find that silly weapon.

*Faith Scion 10 [Craft Wonderous Item, Nymph's Kiss, Assume Supernatural Ability, and Combat Casting]
   At ECL 9 becomes a Good Lich (Beads of Karma can make up the needed caster level)
   At ECL 11 we take [Nimbus of Light] from our Weapon of Legacy ritual
   At ECL 12 buyoff
Risen Martyr 0 (temporarily) in order to take 3 negative levels and buyoff the start of the 3 LA left.
   Restoration ourselves back to ECL 12 for another buyoff
   Psychic Reformation that useless Nimbus of Light feat into [Divine Energy Focus]
   At ECL 17 we take [Improved Turning] from our Weapon of Legacy ritual
*Warpriest 1 (if you want you can psychic reformate the spell focus(enchantment) from our domination domain). Since this is ECL18, we have space for the Reserves of Strength feat.
*Bone Knight 1

      Note: The Warpriest class is unnecessary but it fit the flavor so damn well and BK2 gives nothing but an unneeded casting level, an unneeded skeletal mount, and a nifty but only-for-animated undead ability which doesn't fit well with this build's idea. Without its combat casting or the Nymph's Kiss feat this build has 3 feats to spare.

Double Cheesy Dipping, or why Bone Knight rocks:
Its understandable to bend over backwards for the 9th level spells. But is an extra 20HD from the Good Lich-granted rebuke really worth it? Probably not. But giving the turn undead is  :smirk. Take a look at how the first level of Bone Knight stacks with your turn undead: "If you already had the ability to turn or rebuke undead, you add your effective cleric level to your bone knight level to determine your effective level for rebuking undead now." The downside is "you can never again turn undead once you gain this ability." It's very explicit. Not only do you double dip that first level for rebuke and turn but then your whole turn-only EclerL gets dumped into your rebuke EclerL!  :love

This means that all the little bonuses that can add to both turning undead and rebuke now add twice to the rebuke side. Whoa. All the listed parts in the 'Rebuking and Command Undead Calculations' section with a * are added twice. So the extra 20 levels of rebuke from Good Lich + the level's double-dipping (PA5, FS10, Wp1, BK1, and the 20 the Good Lich template's turning) plus the items that double-dipped (4+1+3+4+2*4+4) plus the rest that is double dipped (1+2+3+5+2) adds a whopping 92 more HD!

Additions: the shroudcrown (PGtF 124) makes turning as a 10th level cleric. If we get this after good lich, it should stack without our existing cleric turning. We probably should get this before boneknight to be safe
Ephod of Authority adds +1 EClerL turn only for 800gp (MIC215)
Mace of Undead Prowess adds +2 EClerL both while in possession (7,812gp) LM66
Mace of the Dark Children adds +2 EClerL for rebuke only (8012gp) MIC53
Kin Mastery feat with necromantic bloodline, alternate source spell and reformated magical training adds +9 EClerL for rebuke only
Devastation of Nerull (CC134) doesn't help RAW since it only boosts CL not EClerL :(
On second thought, since the total commanded undead value is based off the HD of a commandable undead, Divine Energy focus does help for total HD.
Talisman of Undead Mastery: 3kgp 1/day +4 ECL for turn or rebuke. I assume that if its been used for turn once before and it is available during BK1, it's a double-dip as well.(MIC188)
Rod of Authority [DotF25] = +4EClerL for turn or rebuke, command 3/day. 20,576gp
Rod of the dead [Und71] = +4EClerL for ebuke. Animates 20HD undead/day. 75k gp

The New Total:
21+32+(20 or 25)+{15}+10+20+37+28+13+(10+1+2*2+2+9+4*2)+4*2+4 = a 242 or 247 HD undead commanded at one time
[21+32+(20 or 25)+{15}+6+20+37+28+13+(10+1+2*2+2+9+4*2)+4*2+4]*2 = 476 or 486 HD worth of undead controlled in sum

Offline PlzBreakMyCampaign

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1962
  • Immune to Critical Hits as a Fairness Elemental
    • View Profile
Re: PBMC Thread & Build Compendium
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2013, 01:49:39 AM »
Build 4 Word Record [Maximum SA possible (per hit), brute force method]

NE Otherworldly Elf or any lesser planetouched or fully LA bought-off outsiders

The Classes: (not necessarily in this order)
Binder 1 / Rogue 1 / Spell Thief 1 / Psionic Rogue 1 / Wilderness Rogue 1 / SA Variant Fighter  1 / Master of Masks 1 / Justiciar of Taiia 1 / Nightsong Enforcer 1 / Guild Thief 1 / Assassin 1 / Ninja of the Crescent Moon 1 / Fang of Sseth 1 / Unseen Seer 1 / Swift Scion 2 / Bayushi Deceiver 1 / Shadow Thief of Amn 1 / Ronin 1 / Cancer Mage 1

An intermediate or major bloodlines allows Binder 1 to bind Andromalius with the improved binding feat

Get the Pre-req feats, a few combat feats and Martial Study (Cloak of Deception maneuver for swift->greater invis until end of your turn) & Martial Stance (Assassin's Stance = +2d6 SA as swift action)

You didn't forget Bracers of Murder from DotU right? +2 on attack/damage rolls on flat-footed targets, meh. +2 on the save DC of a death attack, meh. You may reroll any 1's on your Sneak Attack dice as much as you want. Bingo!

Total Sneak Attack
8d6 racial after you draconic polymorph into a Kelvasu Demon (MM2 59)
19d6 from every level after 1
3d6 Binder 1 binding Andromalius with major bloodline & improved binding feat
2d6+24 via martial stance, & craven feats with healer's vision
1d6 via Bracers of the Hunter [SoX145]
1d6 Mantle of the Predator (on melee only but +5 hide&move is good too)
1d6 via Rogue Vest [MiC130] 18k
1d6 Foe Specialist feat [MH26] to favored enemy type
3d6 Umbral Awn [ToB141] or Custom Legacy
2d6SA via Enhancements of Assassination (+1) & Deadly Precision enhancement (+1) [MiC32]
1d6 Critical Strike Spell (assassin 1 from unseen seer help) swift -> keen & power critical
1d6 from finger blade if 1st round of combat and able to be flat-footed (technically unnamed SA)
1d6 Mutineer's Eye Pirate graft Drag Mag 318 p54 (-2 Spot, SA only if you already have, 4k gp)
Channel the Mishtai = +1d6 for 1 minute
Nightstalker's Transformation = +3d6SA, ~spells for the 10 rounds but can still UMD
Hunter's Eye = +7d6 SA as swift for 1 round (CL 19)
= 55d6+24 for each iteration (8 attacks per round I would consider the minimum, giving 573-2570 SA damage on a full attack)

Note: You can also abuse Sublime chord and ur-priest to up CL to ungodly levels and abuse Hunter's Eye. But this if CL abuse spelling is used then why not just consumptive field to ni-infinite amounts? Also remember that anything a non-caster can do, a factotum can do better (by maxing feats and taking all fonts of inspiration)... Barring those 3 loopholes, this is the max. But I'm not sure if a DM will let you do those while the brute force method above hopefully seems acceptable.

Offline PlzBreakMyCampaign

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1962
  • Immune to Critical Hits as a Fairness Elemental
    • View Profile
Re: PBMC Thread & Build Compendium
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2013, 01:49:46 AM »
Build 5 World Record [Maximum Eldritch Blast Damage per hit], or Abusing Bloodlines for Long Range Artillery

Strongheart Halfling with Darkstalker, Hidden Talent feats

Feats by Level
3=item familiar, 6=least legacy, 9=empower SLA, 12=quicken SLA, 15=maximize SLA, 18=Mortalbane

Hidden Talent + torc of power preservation + Bloodline Levels = half an hour long compression

Level Breakdown
Binder 1
Warlock 6 = 3d6 eldritch blast, Eldritch Spear and Darkness then Fell Flight and Hellrime Blast invocations, detect magic, DR/1 cold iron

Hellfire Warlock 3 = +2d6 per class level -> 6d6+6d6(bloodlines), another +2d6 from warlock, Eldritch chain [first level of this is taken after first level in Legacy Champion unless your DM is a pain]

Legacy Champion 10 = 8 hellfire warlock levels ->16d6 and 3d6 from warlock along with 4 greater invocations (vitriolic blast, enervating shadow, devour magic and eltritch cone) and 3 dark invocations (dark discorporation, retributive invisibility and utterdark blast)

Damage Additions Outside of Levels
The Mortalbane feat gives 2d6 more on the attack (due to the modifying language it seems to change the base damage like Hellfire Blast) five times per day. The Warlock's scepter allows you to blow 5 charges once a day to gain 4d6 Eldritch blast damage (MIC 63). Chasuble of Fell Power (greater) adds another 2d6 and Gloves of eldritch mixture can add 4d6 once a day. Lets add Plunging shot for 2d6 and if really want either psionic weapon->great psionic weapon or precise shot -> Psionic shot -> Greater psionic shot for 4d6. Hell, for shits and giggles you can even throw in Aberration Banemagic for another 2d6 if you hurt an aberration and Eldritch Dragonbane for +1d6 if that aberration has the dragonblood subtype.

After grabbing a source of polymorph to be a Soul demon (DungMag139 86) for another 7d6, you are an almost fully maxed out warlock with a 47d6+14d6 hellfire Eldritch blast (1d6 less on nonliving targets, 2d6 less if not an aberration) from 250' away while hidden with full concealment... If you had 5 non-aberration live enemies in sight you could Enlarge, Quicken, and Maximize Eldritch Chain to do ~400-500 to the 1(twice or 2) primary target(s) and ~200-250 to the 4 secondary targets for a total of ~1600-2000 damage which can bypass any non-acid immune creature's SR thanks to vitriolic blast. Or you could always swap in Eldritch Glave and give go a Eldritch version of "The Masochist" allowing you to (with a wand of tensor's transformation) do more with haste every time they try to get a melee iteration on you (Reflex for half at DC33+cha mod). If you go that route do NOT forget to power attack (shock trooper is up to you)

If Your Greedy for More
You can also add two feats (via flaws), two items and two spells (via umd) to net 14d6 SA if you have a party to help with the flanking: Check the maximum SA build if you actually have a nice enough party to let you flank.

Interpretational Note
If your DM reads the class progression of Legacy Champion differently than me (I would say non-first and non-seventh levels allow you to at that time choose any of your other classes to progress) and says that upon entering it must be the same class, this build can STILL manage the prereqs for hellfire warlock by taking Favored and Primary contact in an explorer guild to get that extra skill rank. This combined with the extra skill levels (at double cost for being cross-class) still allows 3 levels of hellfire warlock and all 10 levels of Legacy Champion after the warlock and binder base classes.

Furthermore, if you are going by RAW I'll weigh in and say that grabbing the Open Greater chakra feat to meld the Strongheart Vest to your waist instead of taking a Binder 1 dip will allow you to avoid that pesky con damage from your Hellfire blasts. However ability damage DR is just too close to "somehow immune to Con damage" for comfort for me to ever allow it as a DM. It certainly violates every fiber of anyone's RAI which would make it read "somehow not actually get hurt by the Con damage." So if you want a DM-unfriendly absolute Max remove that binder level, grab the aforementioned feat and take a Eldritch Blast enhancing dip. Use the Favored+Primary contact trick if need be on hellfire warlock if you need to make prereqs for a late class. Since this is much more sketchy (and makes the build almost unplayable from level 8 until level 18 I didn't make it the main path. It only gives an extra 1d6 anyways

Offline PlzBreakMyCampaign

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1962
  • Immune to Critical Hits as a Fairness Elemental
    • View Profile
Re: PBMC Thread & Build Compendium
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2013, 01:50:33 AM »
Build 6 World Record [The Maximum Hit Point Tank], or another example of evil doing it better

any evil, any race with one or two flaws (or any bloodline that grants a feat or can serve can elder evil)

Feats and Swappage
1-3: The first four feats can be any as long as skill knowledge (spellcraft) is one. The three undecided feats become open lesser chakra
6: necrocarnum acolyte
9, 12, 15: may be any, but the 15th will be reformated into the heart of incarnum feat at level 16
18: any

Level Breakdown: X 3 / Totemist 2 / Necrocarnate 13 / X 2 with any major bloodline (for the skill ranks)

In truth the totemist isn't even needed, I just like the totem chakra so that this character has access to every chakra in DnD save 5 worthless soulborn only ones. Human with Incarnate 4 means no flaws or psychic reformats are needed. Pushing back the Necrocarnate start two levels means no need for a bloodline or the skill knowledge feat as long as you take full classes with it in-class.

If Your Greedy for More you can add all the usual tactics. Be a faire-initiate dried lich with insane charisma. Add necrotic tumors, improved toughness, a few more incarnum, etc. I didn't do that here, because they only add a few hundred, maybe a thousand or two if I try really hard. That is not enough on scale with the total to make much of a difference.

I am aware that even rougher early-entry tricks (see my supermount) will allow legacy champion to add to the necrocarnate levels for even more HP. If it matters, just give me a holler and I'll post it.

HP calculations; aka how this works
This can be easy or this can be hard. The easy interpretation is that animals are corpses too, and even the fluff of incarnum suggests everything is made of it. Find or be a chicken-infested commoner. Be a warforged or undead or become immune to exhaustion. Note that you do not need the usual meldshaping sleep for this combo. Use the Havest Soul ability on those chickens nonstop for a day, hopefully right until you go to battle. The problem is that even thought the ability never required sentient creatures, animals don't have souls so the RAI screams cheese.

The hard way is going TO with a 'fed' soul-sucker. Perhaps you run an evil kingdom and have slaves lined up like the Aztecs. Or perhaps you just got lucky one day and got to 'clean up' from a major battle. I don't care either way.

Before Necrocarnate 10 the calculations look like this assuming all you do is grab incarnum with no extra sources:
1 or 2 -> 60 min x 24 hours x 1 = 1,440 bonus hp
3 or 4 -> 60 min x 24 hours x 2 = 2,880 bonus hp
5 or 6 -> 60 min x 24 hours x 3 = 4,320 bonus hp
7 or 8 -> 60 min x 24 hours x 4 = 5,760 bonus hp
9       -> 60 min x 24 hours x 5 = 7,200 bonus hp
After Necrocarnate 9 the calculations look like this assuming all you do is grab incarnum with no extra sources:
11 or 12      -> 10 rounds x 60 min x 24 hours x 6 = 86,400 bonus hp
13 or (14)    -> 10 rounds x 60 min x 24 hours x 7 = 100,800 bonus hp
(15) or (16) -> 10 rounds x 60 min x 24 hours x 8 = (115,200 bonus hp)
(17) or (18) -> 10 rounds x 60 min x 24 hours x 9 = (129,600 bonus hp)

In all of the above cases, for each round that the character stops, it loses 6hp. These are NOT temporary HP, so they don't come off the top 'damaged' section of your HP. These are really, however bonus, HP. So you can die in a fight or after because you don't get healed and stop sucking up incarnum.

For giggles, put pain mastery on this build as a Hulk-style BBEG

Offline PlzBreakMyCampaign

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1962
  • Immune to Critical Hits as a Fairness Elemental
    • View Profile
Re: PBMC Thread & Build Compendium
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2015, 11:07:33 AM »
Build 7 [Maximum Skirmish - Available in Nonracist, Halfling RAW, and swarmfighting flavors]

The Builds: (Favored Enemy and skirmish amounts assume feats)
*Maximum Skirmish Halfling Version (13BAB, 14d6Skirmish, 6FE, 2nd level spells) - Scout 3 / Ranger 1 / Halfling Hunter Monk 1 / Unseen Seer 1-2 / Hands of the Winged Masters 2 / Dragon Devotee 4 / Highland Stalker 2 / Unseen Seer 3-7.
    Strongheart Halfling with Magical Artisan, Precocious Apprentice, Extra Slot, and Extra Spell at first level.

*Nonracist (15BAB, 13d6Skirmish, 3FE, 4th level spells) - Scout 3 / Ranger 2 / Hands of the Winged Masters 2 / Dragon Devotee 4 / Highland Stalker 2 / Unseen Seer 7

16BAB (12d6Skirmish, 5FE, 4th level spells) - Scout 3 / Ranger 2 / UA variant, Spirit Lion Totem, Dashing Step Barbarian 1 / Dragon Devotee 4 / Highland Stalker 2 / Unseen Seer 7 / Shadow Scout 1

*non-RAW Halfling Swarm-Skirmishing Version (12BAB, 12d6Skirmish, 8FE, 2nd level spells) - Scout 3 / Ranger 2 / Halfling Hunter Monk 1 / UA variant, Spirit Lion Totem, Dashing Step Barbarian 1 / UA Druid 1 / Dragon Devotee 4 / Highland Stalker 2 / Unseen Seer 4 / Abolisher 1 / Shadow Scout 1

*Missing 16BAB can be fixed by DMM-swapped divine power if you really care

Favored Enemies Totals:
Ranger 1 -> Arcanists +2 (for the nonracist flavor) or Deathless if you are nonRAW and evil
Pseduo-Ranger 5 via Swift Hunter) -> Arcanists +4, Undead +2
Extra Favored Enemy -> Constructs +2
Halfling Hunter Monk 1 -> Plants +2
UA variant, Spirit Lion Totem, Dashing Step Barbarian 1 -> Oozes +2
UA Druid -> Elementals +2
Abolisher 1 -> Aberrations +2
Shadow Scout -> Swarms +1

Total: Arcanists/Deathless +4 & Undead, Constructs, Plants, Oozes, Elementals, Aberrations +2 & Swarms +1

Swarms? You're thinking WTF right? Well I'd like to point out two things. 1) every whole type is allowed as favored enemies (except for humanoids or outsiders which are too 'normal'), so if a character wanted an even more specific and limited subtype that that would also be okay. After all the table does say "Type (Subtype)", so lets add the rare 'swarm' subtype. 2) The swift-hunter handbook on this very forum came to the same conclusion as me. Independently. I'm not barking at the moon. It might not RAW but is more than sensible and still very balanced. In fact I was kind of disappointed with RAW, after all swarm is a core subtype... Obviously if your DM likes to go by RAW bust out the candles of invocation and don't use this alternate swift hunter alternate build.

Or to put it another way: How many players have you ever known to choose Favored Enemy: Humanoid (Gnoll) or Outsider (Water)? How many characters do you think have ever been played (and not pregenerated) who took those options? A dozen? I wouldn't bet on it. What about character who took both? If that didn't illustrate the point consider this: Most non-PHB humanoids are immune to Favored Enemy damage. It's simply not possible to chose a Hellbred as your favored enemy, RAW. Hell even the core, best known subtype in the world: (Shapechanger) isn't applicable. Now go look up the Lupid entry [DMC 18]. See that Favored Enemy: Humanoid (Shapechanger)? If it weren't for specific trumping general, that would be illegal. So in order to actually hunt those lycanthropes as your vampiric Underworld D&D clone you have to be a freaking wolf-woman thing. Ironic huh? I don't fix what aint broke (allowing players to chose subtypes in leui of types) but this is clearly broke.

What does this complete? This allows every single creature to be vulnerable to the build's precision damage via swift hunter. Throw in the Hinder feat and you can (eventually) reduce any creature's base land speed down to 5 feet! Have your party caster throw down a dimensional anchor type spell to bar any plane shifting or teleporting, also he should be ready dispel any gaseous forming or other craziness.

Magical Artisan (for max skirmish)
Precocious Apprentice (for max skirmish)
Extra Slot (for max skirmish)
Extra Spell (for max skirmish)
Swift Avenger [DragMag357] (for max skirmish]
Dragontouched (for dragon devotee)
Swift Hunter
Improved Skirmish
Acrobatic Skirmisher [DragMag346 86]
Improved Acrobatic Skirmisher [DragMag346 86]

For shits and giggles (See my prereq handbook for plenty of ways to get more DCFS-able bonus feats):
Extra Favored Enemy
Hinder [DragMag344 103]
TWF (max skirmish build)
Greater TWF
Power Attack
Favored Power Attack
Get your DM to look at Unorthodox Flurry if you want to skirmish with something better than a quarterstaff

Skirmish Damage:
Skirmish:   1d6/1AC Scout
   +1d6 Swift Hunter & Swift Avenger for Pseudo Scout 5
Move 20'   +2d6 Improved Skirmish
Proc AoO   +1d6 Acrobatic Skirmisher [DragMag346 86] (Tumble5)
   +1d6 Improved Acrobatic Skirmisher [DragMag346 86] (Tumble10)
   +1d6 Halfling Monk 1
   +1d6 Hands of the Winged Master
   +2d6 Dragon Devotee
   +1d6 Highland Stalker
   +3d6 Unseen Seer
   +10d6 from DMM-swapped enhanced wildshape (we wildshape thanks to buying a Wildshape Amulet) as a Hound of the Hunt MMV 202 via tainted druid feat thanks to being necropolitan
=   24d6

Offline PlzBreakMyCampaign

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1962
  • Immune to Critical Hits as a Fairness Elemental
    • View Profile
Re: PBMC Thread & Build Compendium
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2015, 11:07:40 AM »
Build 8 [The Way-More-Than-Uber Centaur Charger]

What this build is:
This is the most regular damage I have ever seen in conventional melee combat. No infinite damage loops, extra actions or marilith mind switching, no throwing planetoids. Just you and your weapon dealing enough damage to make your DM wince... The king of smack? Please. Tome of Battle craziness? Whatever. Frenzied Berserker eat your heart out.

General build ideas to check on first:
Better when played with my ECL variation (not necessary, just take off the last four levels and adjust the damage or burn off 3 HD by negative levels). Please no complaints about RAW requirements for the riding skill and mounted combat feats because that's playing a freaking centaur (339 had an off topic debate on this and agreed with my position). If it really bugs you, and your aren't playing with Faerun material, there are feats to spare.

LN Dragonborn(wings aspect for the diving charge) Centaur with Plucky & Aggressive traits and a ritual of association to gain the orc subtype (+0LA, 2240xp, 56,000gold)
"Orc subtype," you say, "why bother?" This makes the centaur count as an orc [the SS entry merely used items as an example]. Since Every humanoid creature also has a subtype it is the subtype which distinguishes humanoids and makes them considered a separate race (which are usually pretty similar to humans). This ritual, though expensive, doesn't grant any orc abilities or that lovely strength stat improvement. Also the dragonborn template RAW makes even a monstrous humanoid also a humanoid ("dragonborn are humanoids with the dragonblood subtype" RotD 8 and "you retain your original type and subtypes" RotD 10), and since an orc is defined as a correctly sub-typed humanoid...

For TML, everything is better with a couple of bought-off levels in the savage progression ghost template, which allows the Deathsong ghost power (Monsters of Faerun 88) and Ring of Manifestation (Ghostwalk, 10k) to solve the incorporeal problem. Grab empower and extend supernatural ability from ToM73 if you want to have enough time to sneak up mind blanked thanks to legacy items while ethereal. Sing, then manifest into position during the surprise round and then charge normally after winning init.

Build Possibilities
NG->LG Spirit Lion Totem, Dashing Step Whirling Frenzy Ex-Barbarian (who later gains the rage use back) 1 / Horseman Fighter 1 / Totemist 2 / Centaur Paladin 5 [RoA223] / Warshaper 1 [via one level of the werebear savage progression (applicable even aside from its specific exception via half-ogre template) without taking the explicitly optional animal HD] / Cavalier 10 (for deadly and unstoppable charge)
              If the warshaper PrC is gained before the paladin levels via a warchanter and some level-drained temporary levels so it doesn't mess up the LA buyback, this character could theoretically continue as a paladin in epic, showing that it has stayed true to the paladin ideals.

Feats + Nimble Charger Skill Trick
7 by HD, 2 flaws, a custom Major Bloodline gives 10 and a weapon and armor of legacy gives 6

[Mounted Combat for FREE] (explicitly RAW in Races of Faerun as well)
Expeditious Dodge
Hidden Talent(expansion)
Battle Jump
Skewer Foe
Leap Attack (only 11 ranks needed to fulfill the jump check)
Greater 2 Weapon Fighting
Power Lunge
Brand of the Nine Hells
Mark of Minauros (this feat is gravy so it assumes dropping the devil requirement is openly suggested to DMs. See the beyond RAW section for how to reverse engineer it without DM fiat)
Power Attack
Cleave (also possible via reverse-engineering Rankbreaker Glaive [A&E114])
Great Cleave
Spirited Charge (a reverse-engineeredGriffonlance of Goring grants this for 23k)
Headlong Rush [after the ritual allowing us to qualify as 'orc,' check out CS152 for an example]
Monkey Grip [FAQ51 only rules out powerful build with this]
Open Lesser Chakra (shoulder), remembering Split Chakra (shoulder) if needed
2 Weapon Fighting (free via ranger in alternate build)
Practiced Manifester
Mounted Prowess
Death From Above
Mounted Fighting
*Evil Brand [via ritual of alignment SS148]
Thrall to Demon
Abyss-Bound Soul (Baphomet) [FCI83] ... centaurs and minotaurs are close right? :)
Run [Via werebear level]
Mourning Mutate (DragMag359 109) = +3spot xor listen [If going for them tentacles]

*For anyone with alignment fluff considerations, get your DM to allow the Centaur Paladin ACF to apply to DragMag310 53's enforcer variant since its obviously a special mount swap.

Furthermore the following feats are gained through items: Improved Initiative, Ride-by-Attack, Mobility, Improved Two Weapon fighting, Endurance, Diehard, Deflect Arrows, and Improved Natural Attack for the graft weapon'd (yay psychic chirgery) lances through the manifester enhancement.

It is the mark of minorous feat that insures the to-hit glaring weakness in the build. Otherwise... stack on The quite sub-optimal Mounted Prowess, Death from above, Furious Charge, Oversized 2 Weapon Fighting,
Reckless offense, & Mounted Fighting feats

Here is how to qualify as a 'devil': use the SS ritual of association for the evil and lawful subtype via SS148. Now you have all the subtypes that defines a fiend and you count as a devil if you are an outsider native to Hell. That last part is covered by being an outsider native to the 9 Hells. How to be "native" to there? Very tough because their is only one way in all of D&D I am aware of to do this mechanically without a sketchy back story or well messing up our racial choice. Thankfully it is easy and fits nicely in the build. Just take a feat to shape the Planar Chasuble soulmend [MoI83]. It even specifies the correct plane!"

"Devils are fiends from lawful evil-aligned planes." "Evil outsiders are also called fiends."

1) Be an [evil] outsider
2a) Be 'from', ie. native to a lawful evil plane. But which ones? Clearly the 9 hells counts. Others are not specifically kosher.
2b) This gives you the [extraplanar] subtype. Grabbing the [lawful] subtype also seems to been assumed, unless you can find a specifically named devil without one. Technically this might not be necessary, but we are going for "undeniably a devil" here!

But how to be an outsider without running over LA? First of all we use the Savage progression for a centaur so that the LA can be bought off with the RHD also counting as class levels (they do in this case). Now use a savage progression-ified custom half fiend combination (centaur garisto) based off the half fiend template. Everything is 100% sure here because we know what was replaced and what each ability should be at each level, so there is no room for 'homebrew' brokennes or imbalance. Some regular levels follow which allows the rest of the centaur/garisto combination to be finished, if desired although this would force some restoration cheese to fully buy off both LA from the two levels of ghost. Note that this is the cheesiest legal use of bloodlines as well, so unless your DM is forgiving it is best to not finish the half fiend progression.

His HP should be through the roof, as could easily his AC, but that is really not necessary considering he will almost always go first. By conventional means (no island in time or celerity BS) an initiative of 12+dex mod+d20 (rerolled every time) is quite decent. Swap in Lunatic insight, Gifted General, Fire Heritage, and Guerrilla Scout or look into casting boosts if you REALLY want to go first.

Once this character should go first, we should make sure it can hit whatever it can gets close to. The mark of minauros gives +2 to hit for ever 10' charged. The centaur moves at 50base+10celerity+(10+10)if going the favored enemy route. Charges are quadruple movement speed since the cavalier allows a burst of speed (always mounted) and the save won't fail. This build can easily get to over 300' with up to dex mod turns (thanks to that horseman fighter level) is enough to get to about anything. Rough terrain? I'm floating thanks to some nifty horseshoes so running over water, or pebbles or lava, etc will not be a problem. That gives BaB+str+MSx(4/5) as my to hit. Even if only going 240 before attacking that's still +48 to hit from the feat alone. If you really want to pump up the total hit, hitting 150 touch AC wouldn't take too much modifying for the build. And thanks to one of the lances it can cleave all along that path during ride-by-attack (though with varying to hit amounts).

Pre Calculation Info
Okay... so finally here is the damage (15' reach after expansion, lance as a reach weapon makes this 30')
Keep in mind this uses multiple arms and graft weapon abuse to significantly up the weapons' base damage.

Handedness: 2weapon lance -> 1 handed due to mounted, 2 Weapon fighting at a decently high attack penalty, extra hands for 2-handing the now 1-handedly grafted lances (thanks to some chirurgery)

BASE: Knights lance 1d10-> 2d8large, 3d8huge (balanced A&E 96 enhancement via necklace of natural weapons if it looks expensive), 4d8gargantuan (strongarm bracers), 6d8collosal (expansion @Huge size), 8d8collosal+(expansion augmented @Gargantuan size), 12d8 platinum material [MoF 180], 16d8 Improved Natural Attack (grafted weapon) via Fanged Ring, 24d8 Warshaper 1, 32d8 Girallon arms chakra bind, 48d8 Totem Avatar chakra bind, 64d8 Monkey Grip, 96d8 Arms of the Naga [SS55] & swapped preferably DMM'd: 128d8 Arms of Plenty [LoM209] (with 42k Gloves of Man), 192d8 Sharptooth [SC187], and Earth Hammer [RoS162] via wand (temporarily negates the platinum material for its own boost but allows) + Mighty Wallop [RotD114] 256d8, Girallon's Blessing [SpC106] 384d8, Battlearms [DragMag356 48] 512d8, 768d8, Touchstone(Sunken City of Pazar) 1024d8, 1536d8 Enlarge Weapon (prior to expansion via RAW).

[edit for if you feel like blowing some 420k more for gloves of man and getting all tentacley]Getting 1 tale from the Dragon Tail feat after draconic template (this would still be buy-off able via level draining)
Gaining tentacles:
4 chirurgery in a form of doom (getting 11pp is a bit expensive)
4 Illithid Grapplex4 (Illithid Heritage)
2 Deepspawn(Mourning mutate counts for aberration blood)
2 evard's menacing tentacles (wiz3), persistable
4 fearsome grapple (cl=9, wiz2, persistable)
4 flaying tendrils (wiz5, persistable)
Gives us 10 glove of man'd appendages for each lance and an extra one for the dominant hand. This would make use look very ugly (so ugly you should just go invisible) and be more vulnerable to dispelling but would increase the base lance possible size by quite a lot. 1536d8 ->  2048d8 -> 3072d8 -> 4096d8 -> 6144d8 -> 8192d8 -> 12288d8 -> 16384d8 -> 24576d8 -> 32768d8 (left) -> 49152d8 (right)
Now before you go too much further remember that only things already able to wield weapons (like the prehensile tail feat) don't need the gloves or things able to hold things (arms, tails, tentacles) can use them. Legs, hooves, etc can't use the gloves. So there is still a semi-reasonable limit.

EDIT: If fighting one aligment consistently Zealot Pact [CD191] gives another boost. Pay for it if need be. Its permanent until triggered.

Multiplicable Damage: str mod x1 or x3 (off-hand at one or main hand at three thanks to power Lunge), BABx3or4 (1 regular, 2 power attack, 3 leap attack, 4 if favored enemy), +4or2or1 (if favored enemy), +5 enhancement, +1competance (cavilier) + 1glory (lance banner)

MULTIPLIERS: x1 regularly, x2 mounted lance, x4 Righteous Charge (paladin sub), x5 spirited charge, x6 valorous enhancement, x7 battle jump, x8 Headlong Rush (see the next section on weapon shenanigans), x9 deadly charge, x10 unstoppable charge, x11 dive attack, x13 deathsong, x15 Zealot Pact (keep a while in a bag of holding), x16 Abyss-Bound Soul (Baphomet), reverse-engineered halberd of vaulting x17, reverse-engineered Knight's Sword x18, reverse engineered Runestaff of Power x19, reverse-engineered many-fanged dagger x22

CRITICALS: 20 regular, 19/20 Threat from keen scabbards at x3 -> x4 (thanks to riding boots)

MAXIMUMS: Buying a Domain Draught [MIC156] for 3.3k allows access to a domain's granted power for a day. The domain we care about is the Retribution domain [Fr65] which, if you've been hurt by a target, allows a melee weapon attack on your next attack action (Charging is an attack action!) to deal maximum damage. Technically it only procs off the first attack, but hey, it increases the average first hit by over a hundred thousand damage so its worth the 3.3k.

Additional damage: cumulative +1d6 for each successful hit after the first, +5 from feats, +2d6 from rhino hide.

The non-hinder build's Bab maxes at 20 and has a strength of 56 (18base+8racial+6enhance+5inherent+5leveling+14templates+4warshaper for variant). The templates (which can be fully bought off after the racial LA) are dustform, incarnate construct, half-giant, lycanthrope, and mineral warrior. With this last bit of information, and remembering the skewer foe amount changes with each iteration (atleast this is what is intended, otherwise the feat makes no sense).

Cheddary reverse engineered weapon multiplier increases
By reverse engineering the halberd of vaulting, the Knight's Sword, and the many-fanged dagger, you could get crafted two +1 lances that deal, unmounted, x4 damage normally x5 mount, or x6 on jumping mounted charge. Only 1 lance would need the most expensive lance of unending charge's ability and one of the vaulting jump bonuses should be nerfed to a (stacking) competence bonus.
    Alternate source spell allows the paladin spells to count as arcane spells for a reverse engineered Runestaff of Power (MIC181). The psuedo-smite x2 multiplier ability costs anywhere from 1-7.6k (look at the rod of evocation for comparison). Not included in the damage calculations due to the sketchiness of (even post errata) runestaves.
    I include the vaulting but not the many-fanged dagger for two reasons. Firstly the vaulting only works on chargers. Secondly the many-fanged dagger works for everyone, even ghost telekenesis-abusing casters. Yuck. I'll stick to the charger-only stuff and simply wallow in the wonderful wording of the halberd of vaulting rather than trying the reverse-engineered cheese.
    I also didn't use restoration + LA buyoff cheese to grab the obah-blessed template (Dungeon Magazine136 p61). It would add four arms for x2 base weapon damage. Yeah.
    Lastly the barbarian dip can be excised for Claws of the Leopard's pounce for 18.2k
    The Quarterstaff of battle [magic of faerun] is not used for similar reason to the manyfanged dagger and its only 1 hit once a day.

Damage Calculations
Without things like SA or Girallon Windmill Flesh Rip's 20d6 (not worth the swift action) or other petty additions not flavorful, these calculations are per full round action. Feel free to action economy abuse via greater celerity, belt of battle, white raven tactics, etc all you want. It's a shame Time Stands Still doesn't help as much as you might think.

[(Multiplicable damage) x multiplier + additional damage ] * number of main-handed iterations +
[(Multiplicable damage) x multiplier + additional damage ] * number of off-handed iterations +
(the skewer foe totals for both hands)
[(32768d8 +3x23+20*3+5+3+5)x15 + 4d6+2d6] *9 = 4,442,904-35,408,124 (this includes whirling frenzy, raging mongoose maneuver*, flashing sun maneuver, and haste/speed weapon/bracers*)
[(49152d8 +1x23+20*3+5+3+5)x15 + 4d6+2d6] *6 = 4,432,356-35,398,296 (this includes raging mongoose*, and bracers*)
(0d6+2d6+4d6+6d6+4d6+5d6+6d6+7d6+8d6) =      42-252,

A normal MINIMUM of over 22.5k damage is no small achievement... but take a look at the best possible scenario with all crits and on a favored enemy arcane caster:

[(32768d8 +3x23+20*3+5+1+1)x11 + 4d6+2d6] *9 = ,-, (this includes Whirling Frenzy, flashing sun, *raging mongoose, and *bracers*)
[(49152d8 +1x23+20*3+5+1+1)x11 + 4d6+2d6] *6 =    ,-, (this includes Whirling Frenzy, *raging mongoose, and *bracers*)
(0d6+2d6+4d6+6d6+8d6+10d6+12d6+7d6+8d6) =      - ,

So the absolute minimum to the absolute maximum is this: _______
*Note on bracers this assumes the bracers of blinding strike ability as base and strongarm bracer ability tacked on for a hefty price. Though legal, its cheesy. It would also be nice if the bracers stacked with haste, but RAI is clear that it shouldn't.
*Note* Raging Mongoose can be gotten by a master tiger claw bracers for 45k after martial studying sudden leap, wolf fang strike, & blood in the water. Doing magical locations can offer the needed feats depending on what suites your flavor.

Final note: This is no where near fully optimized. Technically by blowing you WBL on using multiple lances for the extra arms you will end up with more damage because of the precision damage, etc. Also strength can still be pumped sky high by buffs, grafts, etc. I didn't do that here (mainly) and I have actually played a very similar build to this in a campaign and its not game-breaking... at level 9. However after reaching level 12 you should not be trusted against anything that cannot fly or swim VERY far away because your WBL allows you to include enough of the build to turn one simply hit and kill in anything in normal circumstances. The flying part can be solved by replacing a swordsage dip at the end and grabbing the Searing Charge maneuver.

That said there are ways to stop this build through rather strange circumstances. Boots of the Battle Charger's abilities can be tacked on to charge through allies. But what about Water or Underdark campaigns? Tiny Tunnels that you can only move half or less speed through mean no charging :) There are ways to overcome each of these obstacles but it devolves into your level of paranoia.

Offline PlzBreakMyCampaign

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1962
  • Immune to Critical Hits as a Fairness Elemental
    • View Profile
Re: PBMC Thread & Build Compendium
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2015, 11:07:48 AM »
Build 9 [A Full CoDzilla including a maximum turning pools option]

Why I created this monstrosity:
Everyone says that a CoDzilla is by core the most powerful combination of base classes. Well, I noticed how powerful the idea was and  I snooped around for a solid CoDzilla build... and I found... NONE. That's right. Not one. I'm talking a fully fleshed out build not someone spamming "Cleric 1/Druid 19." As best I can tell, this is the only fully-built CoDzilla on the internet (or atleast was when initially posted around the time 4e was out).

So then I decided to make my own... It soon got out of hand and became more an exercise in what could happen if a DM made a character that could contain a whole party.... 1v10 anyone? CoDzilla would love to! :twitch

Keep in mind that most any sane DM would not allow this character, atleast not to these theoretical limits. Remember that a DM decides what magic items exist in his campaign world, world artifacts are available and how easily, when rolls occur, what item creation rules fly, what prestiges, templates, and books are okay to take. That being said, this is perfectly acceptable as the DM's secret weapon to a over-optimized party just ripe for a smack-down.

The Build:
TN Azurin with an attitude and an ego as large as he can WS

City Brawler Lion Totem Whirling Frenzy Barbarian 1 / Binder 2 / Azurin Cleric 1 / Death Delver 1 / Dread Necromancer 1 /  Death Master 1 / Holy, Raging Monk 1 / Mystic 1 / Cloistered Cleric 1 / Halruaan Elder 1 / Wildshaping Ranger 1 / Nature's Warrior 1 / Master of Many Forms 1 / Druidic Avenger 1 / Shadow Adept 1 / Rebuke Dragons Spontaneous Cleric 1 / x2. Hierophant is no longer needed thanks to the Communal Channel spell (Holy Order of the Stars 66).

Its a good thing the azurin cleric and cloistered cleric now have different mechanical abilities, otherwise these specifically would stack (UA p.48).

The feats:
Halruaan Adept
*Defiance [Divine]
*Countermagic [Divine]
Hidden Talent
Item Familiar
Wild Cohort
Residual Metamagic
Proportionate Wild Shape
Retrieve Spell
Shadow Weave Magic
Imprint Stone [Item Creation]
Practiced Manifestor
Frozen Wild Shape
Dragon Wild Shape
Large and in Charge
Assume Supernatural Ability
Practical metamagic
Easy Metamagic (persist) [Drag Mag 325 p62]
Improved Binding
Spell Thematics
Extra Turning x10 (including undeath domains)
Combat reflexes, alertness, and endurance via items

Reach or Occular spell (+2) to persist anything? [I am not sure if I would even allow this... mentioned for completeness]

Wildshape items for prereqs:
wildshape amulet from Magic of Faerun costs 40,000gp to allow you to Wild Shape as a 5th level druid
Skin of Kaletor gives +4 levels of WS
Mantle of the beast(18k)+ring of the beast(8k)=+1WS LEVEL ABILITIES which for this build happens to be MoMF, since none of the other classes are at a point where they have WS to be advanced :)

After levels and items: 16 WS Uses @ 14HD&hours [19 by RAW if you don't mind abusing the intent... I do so I put 14HD]

(Ab)Use of the variant deck of many things:
It allows a character to rebuild levels (not a problem due to the 'buffer' level of barbarian at level 1), gain templates (which do not apply since class abilities rely on staying neutral - the neutral one can be temporarily gained by borrowing an item) and changing skill points and feats. Basically by drawing enough this character can set these things to exactly what he wants (except the few that are one way only and no longer apply).

Forcibly Retrainable feats
1) Barb 3 feats-> Persist, DMM(Persist), DMM(Extend)
5) Death domain -> undeath domain
8) Knowledge domain -> undeath domain
14) Abberant Blood, Inhuman Reach, Abberant Wild Shape LoM178
18) Imp Unarmed Strike -> Extra Turning

If the DM is going by the DMG, not the completes, prereq can be retrained:
Shadow Weave Magic, track, Halruaan Adept, Spell Thematics, Imprint Stone
-> possibly 5 more extra turnings = 180 or 160 more turns depending on the rules for Tenebrous

What do you do with more DMM and turns than you can shake a stick at? Well since your the DM, allow a custom magic item that only works for CoDzilla and allows the user to cast a Caster Level 1 Miracle once per day. Caster level 1 I say? Yes indeed. Am I worried about dispel or a disjunction? Hell no. First of all we can circle magic like a bitch. But that's not good enough right? Exactly, which is where those extraneous [Divine] feats come in.

Normally pre-emptive counter-spellings are unreasonable; after all you have to ready an action, have either a countering spell ready (which is messy) or a dispel prepared and beat the opposed check. We'll save some turns (we can spare 50 easy). Thanks to Divine Defiance a turn allows us to NOT need to ready the dispelling action. Great, this way we can lay the smackdown during CoDzilla's turn without worrying about dispellings. But we don't have spell knowledge of dispel or greater dispel. Now look at Divine Countermagic which allows CoDzilla to not have to have any prepared as long was we spend turns = 1+level of the spell being countered. So this means that all CoDzilla has to do is make the spellcraft check to tell that a spell is being cast AT ALL which is easily within his Spellcraft check range. The only danger is a DMM cleric disjunctioning (silently and without somatic components) or an arcane caster who similiarly circle-magic'ed his greater dispel (also silent and without somatic components). If you are really worried about this strange possibility then just go with Twice-Betrayer of Shar and stop trying to CoDzilla.

Turn Use Calculations:
Atleast 10 Extra turning feats over 9 or 8 DMM'able pools gives 4*10*(9 or 8)+3(9 or 8)+(9 or 8)*(6 charisma modifier) -> 392 [plus 1 more every 5 rounds after buffing or counterspelling] or 441 turns. This is without any money for piddly extra turns like (capped) nightsticks or a reliquary symbol or any of the random weapons and wonderous items that grant turns. Also I don't use the Druid domains on UA 68 because they are essentially homebrew. Also Codzilla doesn't have druid2 spells on his own (for Bone Talisman) and obviosuly can't make a positive gain off of miracle-ing it or he would go infinite which would be bad  :banghead.

Quote from: If Tenebrous' uses are is usable once per 5 rounds
DMM Persistant    6
      - 1 (pracal metamagic)
      - 1 (easy metamaic)
      - 1 (Halruaan Elder)
      - 1 (every 5 rounds infinite Tenebrous turns)
      + 1 extend the persistant
      + 2 (retrieve spell)
      + 9 (miracle is 9th level)

The first casting DMMs costs 3turns
the next can residual metamagic the persist but from now on we add the retrieve spell cost -> 12
all the rest we residual metamagic (every other time) the retrieve for 3 then 14 then 3 then 14 then...

3+12+20*3+20*14+3=358 allows for 43 persisted spells if all are emulated from miracle
but since they are all extended they are in effect the next day. We do the same thing the next day so every 2 days we repeat the same regiment allowing 86 persistent spells on all the time.
This is the way most people play because it is probably the intent. But unfortunately its not RAW. Check out the simple question thread (um #1 I think) for the community agreeing with my realization that Tenebrous is only another regular turning pool.
Quote from: The slightly less cool calculations but RAW
DMM Persistant    6
      - 1 (pracal metamagic)
      - 1 (easy metamaic)
      - 1 (Halruaan Elder)
      + 1 extend the persistant
      + 2 (retrieve spell)
      + 9 (miracle is 9th level)

4+12+20*4+20*15+4=400 allows for 43 persisted spells, also with about 50 to spare for some massive counterspelling. See? Not that different huh?

This is still not the max number of DMMable turns:
In the above build, there is no xp penalty because Shaman 3 is the last level. Those druid-ish levels in the middle are for WS craziness on top of the ridiculously large amounts of buffs. The max pools are 14 (12 pre-epic): Cloistered Cleric (Master of Spiders alternate class feature aka drow cleric) 1,  Dread Necromancer 1, Death Master 1, Death Delver 1, Horned Harbinger 1, Ur-Priest 2, Azurin Cleric 1, Blackgaurd 3, Hierophant 1 (to give those yummy turns to CoDzilla), Mystic 1, Nomad Shaman 2, Shaman 3 and Shadow Adept 1 for the feats. If epic if your kind of thing you can Divine Mind 4 (Stygian path), Paladin of Tyranny 4, Holy Raging Monk 4, Nightstalker 4 (Races of Ansalon 153), although going evil means no Kender Nightstalker PrC via racial emultation Changeling, Wild Reaper Druid 12 if you want. For those who disagree with the drow cleric, please see the board's consensus about it here. Note that the prereqs are possible but are a pain I won't bore you with. This build works as a great cohort (with improved cohort of course). Charisma tinkering goes a long with for extra turns. Technically by dropping the hierophant level and abusing restoration and LA buyoff, the t'liz template (Drag 315 37) can score you another rebuke pool off your HD.

edit: Clerist Knight of the Sword 4 PrC 2nd sub level [KOoA68] might make going good about even in terms of pools, but I think it would be slower but you'd have to be LG...

We can keep all these buffs up while Wildshaped into any small, medium, large, huge, or gargantuan (thanks to proportionate wild shape) humanoid, giant, aberration, dragon, or animal with less than 16HD. Oh and by the way that ability can be to any number of willing allies (as long as each one uses their given 15 hour Wildshape before the next). In order to get varying sizes for differently wildshaped allies you could throw up null psionics field and step in and out of it. Remove some turns and add Wizard 1 (for a familiar) and leadership for absolute craziness. Hell, you could slow down the turns even more and go extra wildshape to get enough uses make your followers Wildshaped. An army of dragons gargantuan dragons anyone?

And for the icing on the cake: Stack templates like no tomorrow and then buy them off at every opportunity to rack up feats and states. Continue to use the Alternate Deck of Many Things to dump most all your stats into con while leveling up for HPs that approach the 1000 mark... then swap it to cha for turns when you want to battle your PCs :)

Offline PlzBreakMyCampaign

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1962
  • Immune to Critical Hits as a Fairness Elemental
    • View Profile
Re: PBMC Thread & Build Compendium
« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2015, 11:07:54 AM »
Build 10 [The MAXED +1sorc casting non-ascended, Non-epic Demilich kobold]

This requires Bestiary of Kyrnn (an official WotC book):

Venerable Desert Dragonwraught Kobold [small, -4Str +2Dex +1Wis +3int +3cha, Fav Rogue, +4fort for heat, +2Surv,craft(trap),&search, auto drac, bon com&und] with the Variant Kobold Racial Traits for the slight (tiny) build. He's fully bought off before going lich and demilich

How to Cast Ninth Level Spells at ECL8 without Metamagic:
   Start with the Dragonspawn(white) acquired template giving +1sorcerer casting, +7nat, +2con, +2dex, 60'fly average, a bite, 2 claws, a 2d6 cone of cold breath weapon, and a temporary monstrous humanoid type (this is below dragon on the type pyramid).

   At level 1 take Sorcerer 1, the Dragonwrought feat (RotD 100) giving the dragon type from monstrous humanoid, lowlight vision, and 60'darkvision, and then the Loredrake Sovereign Archetype which lowers his non-existent racial HD to d10s and he loses his non-existent cleric casting in exchange for +2sorcerer casting, 1d6cold death throes.

   Don't forget the cost of his familiar (100gp), the Draconic Rite of Passage (RotD 43) (100gp), and the greater Draconic Rite of Passage (1000) and the total of 4 hp the rituals subtracts.

   At level 3 he takes the Draconic Reservoir feat and uses the LA Buyoff to have a normal ECL.

   Sometime after that but before 6 he will take the acquired Abomination Dragonspawn template for 1 LA, giving (since the kobold base creature is not listed it gains an additional table roll in lieu of the Race Specific Mutation) +0 to +6sorcerer casting. The three rolls could all land 96-100 which then double into 6 rolls that could all manage an 86-90. Yes I understand that the upper limit is a 1/3600 chance.

   At level 6 he completes the Greater Draconic Rite of Passage for +1sorcerer casting and if another LA1 template is taken before this level the Abomination dragonspawn LA can be bought off now. For an optimal template, check the next spoiler.

This means that at ECL8 after the buyoff but before getting all the way to level 9 we could have 8 regular levels of sorcerer + up to 10 effective increases for any 9th level spells from the sorcerer list.

This build could be interesting in the ECL8 variant of E6 if you had a DM who was forgiving on the LA buyoff

How to be a non-epic Demilich:
Cross reference the EHL's page 155 with MM1 to get +8LA in addition to your lich template. Now we have enough ECL to simply go straight lich (too bad the level 21 sorcerer thing isn't 'casts as' a level 21 sorc; it would allow dry lich thanks to alterate source spell + precocious apprentice + flaws = entry at ECL2).

This build is obviously not for the ECL8 variant of E6. The above build with additions looks like this in summary:
1 Dragonspawn then dragonwraught
2 Sorc 1
3 Sorc 2
     LA Buyoff of the Dragonspawn template
  3 Sorc 3 then Draconic Reservoir
  4 Sorc 4
  5 Abomination Dragonspawn
  6 Lich 1 (See below)
       LA Buyoff of the Abomination Dragonspawn template
    6 Sorc 5
    7 X
    8 X
         LA Buyoff of the Lich 1 Template Class
         Level Drain of 2 levels
      6 Lich 2
      7 Lich 3
      8 Lich 4
         LA Buyoff of the Lich 2 Template Class
          8 Sorc 5
          9 Sorc 6
        10 Sorc 7
        11 Sorc 8
        12 Sorc 9
        13 Sorc 10
        14 Sorc 11
            LA Buyoff of the Lich 3 Template Class
            14 X
            15 X
            16 X
            17 X
                LA Buyoff of the Lich 4 Template Class
                Level Drain of 4
                12 Demilich Template

The Lich Template Class requires having a CL of 11 and the Craft Wondrous Item feat prior to its first level. After taking the Abomination Dragonspawn template at ECL5 our sorcerer level is already up to 1+4+6 which means we don't need to persist CL boosters or anything. Those with a careful eye will notice that I have the Lich 1 template class counting in the LA buyoff levels. It does :). Also note that even with the level draining, at no point was this character epic.

The above kobold has takes 11 levels in sorcerer, has +10 levels in sorcerer total. The LA+4 lich is an acquired template without steep prereqs. If we take the LA+8 demilich template we would stand at ECL20. Phew. We meet the 21st level sorcerer requirement and with only medium crafting reductions, have more than enough WBL to craft our soul gems assuming the template simply requires the soulstones after the template is taken (and your WBL goes up). If you don't have that assumption simply craft the stones and take the template immediately following the level drain. There is only a completely internal and non-TO WBL imbalance for a few seconds, like tossing a bag of gold in there air. More severe cost reduction would of course be required.

Keep in mind the demi-lich version of magic immunity also applies to "supernatural effects" so anything magical doesn't effect you. I understand that the rules compendium page 131 says "A creature that has this characterisic is immune to any spell or SLA that allows spell resistance," but this does not contradict the fact that you are still immune to spells and supernatural abilities that do NOT allow spell resistance. Although you can't alter self, the 3.5 errata/update keeps this magic immunity and gives you a 180 perfect (Ex) fly speed :)

Offline PlzBreakMyCampaign

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1962
  • Immune to Critical Hits as a Fairness Elemental
    • View Profile
Re: PBMC Thread & Build Compendium
« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2015, 11:08:23 AM »
Build 11 [Making a Vampire PC that Doesn't Suck - figuratively, of course.]

Note: This build assumes that PC class-level requiring templates that advance by character class have no LA. There is plenty of evidence for this, but it will not be discussed here. If your DM likes throwing Kobold sorcerers equal to your level and take on frenzied berserker to every monster you fight, he won't agree with this deduction. The build is still playable but hardly as powerful or entertaining as a vampire PC is supposed to be.

You will need:
0. Optional Dragonwraught Kobold is more optimal than a Dragonspawn (white) [RBoK44]
1. Savage Progression Vampire template class (superior to the non-savage progression template)
2. The Savage Vampire variant [LM170] because your DM won't like you basically being a diplomancer to everyone you can merely talk to
3. Kasian Vampire variant [DragMag348 p29] because the nerfs don't apply and help us avoid some TO claims
4. The Vampire Lord template (notice that although its +CR3, for PCs its listed as by character class -> +LA0)
5. The Swarmform Vampire variant (LM170)
6. A long-arched campaign (will require you age 100 years. Best if between your level 18 and 19
7. Optional Vampiric Dragon Template [Drac195] to compare its capabilities to the above templates

The Vampire Template:
(click to show/hide)

The Half-Vampire template (which helps for later Vampire Lord abilities)
(click to show/hide)

The Savage Vampire Breakdown is:
(click to show/hide)

Vampiric Dragon compared to the standard Vampire template
adult or older dragon   vs   (monstrous) humanoid
LA+5   vs   LA+8
+4HP/HD   vs   +0HP/HD
Lose subtypes   vs   keep subtypes
Str +4, Dex +6, Int+2, Wis+2, Cha+4, nat+2   vs   Str +6, Dex +4, Int+2, Wis+2, Cha+4, nat+6
cold&elec res 20   vs   cold&elec res 10
none      vs   Spider Climb (Ex)
none      vs   DR10/silver&magic
none      vs   natural weapons as magic weapons for DR

1 negative level upon claws (no limit)   vs   2 negative levels upon slam once per round
Create dragon RAW includes dragons   vs   Create spawn RAW doesn't include dragons
unlimited spawn, zombie dragons if not adult or vampiric dragons if adult   vs   spawn totaling 2xHD but those spawn can have spawn
Blood drain 1 size smaller than the dragon or any equal or larger   vs   Blood drain any
charm monster 30'/Age Category upon full round speaking (no sight needed)   vs   Nothing
auto 40' (18mi at max 2hr to horde) Gaseous form   vs   Auto 20' (9mi at max 2hr to coffin) Gaseous form @0HP
No purposeful Gaseous form (Su)      vs   At will Gaseous form
standard action 30+10'/Age Category gaze as dominate monster CL18   vs   standard action 30' gaze as dominate person CL12
none      vs   bat, dire bat, wolf, or dire wolf form until sunrise but no natural slam attack and dominate ability
none      vs   (Su) 1/day 1hour 1d6+1rat or 1d4+1bat swarms, 3d6wolves in 2d6rounds

cross, mirror, staking, sunlight slow & direct Age Category rounds   vs   staking, garlic, cross, mirror, water immersion, sunlight slow & direct = 1 rounded
No reflexion or shadow, invitation   vs   No reflexion or shadow, cross running water, invitation

The Vampiric Dragon Savage Progression would then look like:
1, Str +2, Con -2, spawn slavery, blood drain (moderate, w/ size restrictions), res cold&electric 10, +2 Bluff,Hide,Listen,Move,Search,Sense,Spot, fortification (light), vampire bonus feats (Alertness, Dodge)

2, Cha +2, Dex +2, res cold&electric 20, Horde Sanctuary (lesser), +4 Bluff,Hide,Listen,Move,Search,Sense,Spot, dominate (lesser), vampire bonus feats (Improved Initiative, Lightning Reflexes)

3, Str +2, Wis +2, fortification (moderate), blood drain (greater w/ size restrictions), Horde Sanctuary (greater), +6 Bluff,Hide,Listen,Move,Search,Sense,Spot, Charm&Dominate 1/day 10', Vampire Aversions (mirror, crosses & private areas) & sunlight vulnerability (lesser)

4, Int +2, Dex +2, natural armor +2, undeath (4+d12's),  create spawn (lesser), fast healing 1, Charm&Dominate 3/day 10', turn resistance +4, Slowed sunlight but 3xAge Category rounds to die

5, Dex +2, Cha +2, Create Spawn (vampire or spawn or vampiric dragon or zombie dragon of any HD), fast healing 5, 1 energy drain upon claw (no limit), Charm&Dominate at will 30'+10'/Age Category, vampire bonus feat (Combat Reflexes), Direct sunlight now gives Age Category rounds to die, +8 Bluff,Hide,Listen,Move,Search,Sense,Spot

The idea is to fully buy off the templates through a savage progression:
Buy off your first LA at Half-Vampire 1 / Sorc 3 . Now your are a Sorc 2 short 3k xp with a bought off template. Note the decreased cost compared to a normal template, since you're also losing a class level.

Buy off half an LA+2 at Sorc 4 / Vampiric Dragon Savage Progression 1st & 2nd. Now down 8k xp, you are Sorc4 / DVSP 3rd with 2 free LA.

Buy off the last of that LA+2 at Sorc 8 / DVSP 2nd. Now down by 14k xp, you are Sorc8 with 3 free LA.
Get touched by a vampire once and level drained by 2. It shouldn't be that hard since you have to be bit to become a vampire anyway. Use Fell drain if you must.
Within a caster's CL number of weeks buy off a third of your LA at Sorc 6 / DVSP 3rd,4th,5th. Now down by 22kxp, you are Sorc6 / V 4th,5th
Pay for a Greater Restoration for your previous levels. You are now Sorc 8 / DVSP 4th, 5th

(click to show/hide)

Buy off an LA at Sorc 10 / DVSP 4th, 5th. Now down by 33k xp, you are a Sorc 10 / DVSP 5th

Finish off you LA at Sorc 14 / DVSP 5th. Now down by 47k xp, you are a Sorc 14. You'll be at level 17 when your party hits ECL20 and at 18HD before your party heads into epic.

Note that Create Spawn is campaign-breaking if used correctly, so we'll keep an eye out for how to nerf it. If your DM sees that you're trying not to break his game and you play a t4 or below class, he could take pit on you and use the Savage Species rule to remove an LA. This would put you at 19HD with a pre-epic party. That's about as good as you can hope when xp totals & allocation has been balanced to not be a river.

Template Stackage & concerns:
You'll be spawned (by choice) from a Kasian Vampire. Assuming you can be savage vampire by choice (you did almost become a lycanthrope which is mentioned in the fluff), your sire may not even need to be one. RAI, you won't need to slay your sire in order to become a Vampire Lord.

You'll still need to be a vampire for 100 years, have 10HD, created at least 10 vampires, and survived an assassination attempt by one of your subjects. Note that the last prereq is almost impossible RAW, without a being Kasian Vampire. RAW, the Vampire Lord template will overwrite/upgrade the weaker Kasian control over your spawn. DMs are continued to, RAI, ignore the sentence "The new vampire is enslaved to the vampire lord until its master's death, and the willpower of the vampire lord is too strong to allow it to break free of its enslavement" in order to help maintain balance.

The lack of private spaces (invitation requirements) immunity/"fix" in the vampire lord template is noticable. Since garlic immunity was already had, we suggest that you should atleast be able to 'trade' one aversion fix for another, especially considering this was likely an oversight. If your DM is feeling really nice he can give you a swim speed for redundant the water immunity.

The -4stats,saves,skill&attacks on the Vampire Lord Template should instead be what takes the Age Category-1 delay before sunlight has an effect.

We are also assuming that the subtype dropping happens with the type change in the Savage Progression verison of the Draconic version of the Vampire template. That's why we can wait to pay for a Mantle of the Fiery Spirit [NPC cost + 5->10k gp + 2->1kxp cost] casting.

Speaking of paying for a casting, a single DCFS will help with the redundant Improved Initiative feat.

Why is Children of the night worth the Half-Vampire template? It's a really cool ability and the other bonuses are comparable for their one LA. Its one of the few in all of DnD that allow you to sense through multiple creatures at the same time. Yeah. "The vampire lord can sense through the senses of any such commanded creatures." There is no action or restriction on your normal senses. Hello 10 mile perimeter of continuous scouting. Now if only there was some way to permanently give those summons magical detection....

Note that the (Su) Children of the Night from the half-vampire template is a nerfed version. Since the nerf should carry over RAI rather than possibly overwrite, we can expect after the Vampire Lord template to only have 4 rat swarms, 3 bat swarms and 6 wolves, see-through-their-senses-able and 10 mile empathically communicating permanent summons. You miss out on 3 rat swarms, 2 bat swarms, and 12 wolves, buts diminishing returns means these last few summons don't help as much. Also this is me assuming that the 'serve until released' clause doesn't simply allow you infinite summons -- similar to how the vampire spawn pyramid actually works RAW. And I'm assuming you can't split the swarms and see with hundreds of lone bats and rats....

The total costs are killing a subordinate vampire, a restoration, probably a mantle of the Fiery spirit casting and a DCFS,  12 days or a limited wish, 47k xp (maybe + 7k xp from the party cleric)

Other Templates Variations:
Savage Vampire Variant template:
2 d4 claws or slams (small sized) if you cut off your hands. Claws automatically deal 1 negative level per hit
No dominate (Su) ability
+10Str, +4dex, -2int, +2wis
+8 to the racial Hide, Jump, Listen, Move Silently and Spot boni

Kasian Vampire Variant:
+2 Str
30 elec res
weapons that deal negative levels also give temp HP
Spawn are geased rather than enslaved
Dominate ability would be Suggestion instead
Fast Heal 10 if holding a Sword of Kas which at full power is a 5,041,500gp epic item/artifact (+10enh [1,000k] str intelligent item with total of 44 mental stats [9k] +6 keen (+1) unholy (+2) vorpal (+5) longsword [3,920k] with 1/day CL10 lightning [60k as per intelligent items], blasphemy [33.6k], & unhallow [16.6k] + 1/7days slay living [2.3k] which adds to an ego of 34). The weakest, Ego 7 version would be 9.3k (+2enh str intelligent item with 34 total mental stats [1k], +1 longsword [2k] with 1/7days slay living [2.3k])

Vampire Lord Template:
a further Str +6, Dex +4, Int +2, Wis +2, Cha +4, +6nat
50' fly (perfect)
+5 more DR/silver and magic (in 3.5 terms rather than 3.0 lingo). RAW, sets the DR to 15/magic and silver
+3 more fast healing
+4 more turn resistance
+cha to saves as paladin
+4 Sense Motive checks, and a +8 racial bonus to Diplomacy and Intimidate checks.
Iron Will and Leadership feats
Telepathy 100' & 1 mile for controlled vampires

Domination off of gaze or voice at normal level without LoS
Children of the Night has 10mile see through them and communicate empathically
Control Weather at will, CL12
Fog Cloud at will, CL12
Telekenesis at will, CL12
at will, move action Alternate Form (Su) into any animal, as per druid 12 Wild Shape without having to reverting into original form. One would think this can be expanded with Wildshaping feats since it works like Wild Shape. Hello Aberrant Wildshape!

Immune to garlic, crosses, mirrors (w/ reflections), running water & its immersion, wooden stakes, sunlight & similar magical effects except can't use (Su)s, -4stats, hit, saves, and skills
Dominated aren't free during daylight hours.
If killed in direct sunlight gaseous form hits at sunset.
True death requires decapitation+separate bodily immolation+scatter body ashes over running water + immerse head ashes in holy water, and bury it in consecrated ground. Can still be recovered, dried, unhallowed, and placed inside place of rest for a week before regeneration.

Swarmform Vampire Variant:
Assume form means swarm version of applicable form instead of nonswarm version
By applying the swarmform variant last, it is arguable that this will allow WSing into any applicable swarm. There doesn't exist any other way to do this that I know of.

Nontemplate Build Considerations:
Attribute priorities are: Cha, Con, str, int, dex, wis or if using my Metacompendium's caster nerf's: wis, cha, con, int, str, dex
Rolled stats of 18,17,16,16,8,4 are assumed unless using the Metacompendium (previously) T2 caster point buy of 22 for 18,15,14,8,6,3

Assuming we are a Earth+Desert (xor Jungle Kobold if using my Metacompendium's caster nerfs): -2str, -2Wis or int
That gives us 14str, 8dex, 17con, 16int, 2wis, 18cha xor a 3e fixed value of 6str, 3dex, 14con, 8int, 18wis, 15cha

Apply the standard charisma and constitution buffing templates & spells. Unfortunately dragonborn is out unless you are going straight vanilla vampire. Worship an elder evil for Willing Deformity and temporarily, Deformity (Obesse) -> (gaunt) for +2 con. If you aren't playing with 3e-balanced SAD casters, to can use Magic-Blooded (Drag Mag 306 p64) for +2cha & -2wis.

By Level 14, our stats would be nice and high. It wouldn't be too hard to afford +6 enh items to both con and cha.
The inherent bonii are worth the XP penalty if you are using my Wish Conglomeration thread (of course its in the Metacompendium). The party will probably expect one of its casters to pay for the XP costs for everyone, so hopefully that won't be you. Maybe the cleric will pity you and spend the .3*5*6=9k xp on you so you don't have to pay an NPC or use sanctum spell.
Prior to undeath: Bloodtouched Rite [PGtE p23] for HP=cha*(Con score-1)*.5. That's means 8*7=56hp or 8*8=64hp (remember that in fixed 3e casters are MAD too)

At undeath, apply the usual tricks. We'll start with the most unlikely.
Your creator is a Dread Necromancer 8: +2hp/HD, +4enh str&dex
Your Creator is a Necromancer specialist Wizard 1 who creates Enhanced Undead: same as the above for another +2hp/HD
Corpsecrafter (LM)- +4 Enhancement bonus to Str, +2hp/hd
Deadly Chill (LM)- +1d6 cold dmg with natural weapons
Nimble Bones (LM)- +4 Initiative, +10ft to base land speed
Boost Resistance (LM)- +4 Turn Resistance
Desecrate: +1hp/HD

Thanks to the fact that we'll basically be getting Unholy Toughness and +1HP/HD from the Vampire Lord, these tally to (56 or 64) bloodtouched rite + 1d12*HD + [12 each HD]*HD + (8cha*HD), or an average of 488 or 496 @18HD without any additional HP or template charisma buffs.

The Tally
This (all reverse engineered savage progression) Half-Vampire, Savage, Swarm-form, Vampire Lord, Kasian, Vampiric Dragon is fully bought off and can fit into an ECL20 build, given enough xp.

Undead (w/ all d12's) [the above linked savage progression gives cha to anything that used con]
+5HP/HD [from templates, but 12total]
50' fly (perfect) [40'ms]
after 120 years: Str +22, Dex +16, Int +5, Wis +9, Cha+11, nat+8 [w/ items it's base +31str, +27dex, +16int, +20wis, +22cha & +4from HD to 1 stat]
Immune to Fire
DR 10/silver and magic. RAW, set to DR 15/magic and silver
Magic Natural weapons for DR
Fast Healing 13 if holding a 9.3k sword of Kas replica (+2enh str intelligent item with 34 total mental stats [1k], +1 longsword [2k] with 1/7days slay living [2.3k])
Res cold 20 & elec res 30
auto 40' (18mi at max 24hr to any piece of property [RAW still homeland]) Gaseous form. If killed in direct sunlight gaseous form hits at sunset.
+8 Turn Res
+8 racial Bluff, Diplomacy, Hide, Intimidate, Jump, Listen, Move Silently, Search, Sense Motive, and Spot, +4 Sense Motive
Alertness, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Improved Initiative, (twice so get a DCFS) [w/ another +4], Lightning Reflexes, Iron Will and Leadership (must meet prereqs)
Any familiar should be a Rat Familiar (+2fort)
+cha to saves (similar to paladin) presumably (Ex) & stacks with divine grace
(Su) Telepathy 100' & 1 mile for controlled vampires

3 d4 slams (small-sized) [+1d6 cold]
1d4con Blood Drain (Ex) after pin of foe not less than a size smaller -> +5 temp hp
Children of the Night (Su) = standard action 1/day 1d4 rat swarms, 1d3 bat swarms, or 1d6 wolves after 2d6rounds which serve for an hour. Can see through them and communicate empathically 10 miles away. It also requires a command word, RAI.
~Dominate (Su) = standard action 30+10'/Age Category gaze or voice w/o LoS as suggestion CL18
Create Spawn (Su) = energy drain or 100% con drain on >5HD (monstrous) humanoids -> vampire spawn 1d4 days after burial or 4HD + 100% con drain -> spawn geas'd until its master’s destruction (or RAW until 12hours) w/ HD totaling 2*HD. Explicitly allows pyramid schemes. Adult or older dragons become Vampiric Dragons, younger become zombie dragons. Those dominated aren't free during daylight hours.
Energy Drain (Su) = 2 negative level with 2 d4 claws [+1d6 cold]. Anything that gives negative levels grants +5 temp HP. Take the [Monstrous] feat Wightblade [DragMag348p64] for energy drain through manifactured weapons.
charm monster 30'/Age Category upon full round speaking (no sight needed)
Control Weather (SLA) at will, CL12
Fog Cloud (SLA) at will, CL12
Telekenesis (Su) at will, CL12
at will, move action Alternate Form (Su) into any animal, as per druid 12 Wild Shape without having to reverting into original form. Includes swarm versions of applicable forms.

Weaknesses: sunlight & similar magical effects except can't use (Su)s, -4stats, hit, saves, and skills if spent the last 13 rounds or more in sunlight. RAW invitations are still oddly needed.

True death requires decapitation+separate bodily immolation+scatter body ashes over running water + immerse head ashes in holy water, and bury it in consecrated ground. Can still be recovered, dried, unhallowed, and placed inside place of rest for a week before regeneration.

Offline PlzBreakMyCampaign

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1962
  • Immune to Critical Hits as a Fairness Elemental
    • View Profile
Re: PBMC Thread & Build Compendium
« Reply #17 on: January 15, 2015, 11:08:48 AM »
Build 12 The Ultimate Bear Build [More Beariness than you can shake a stick at it (efficiently) due to 50% damage reduction]

I forebear this no more. Warning, this load-bearing build is going to get grizzly. I bearily finished it. I'd say its unbearable but I still can't help bearing a grin. Prepare for pandamonium!

aka:Yo dawg bear, I heard you like bears with your bears so we transformed some bears on top of your bears.

I present Teddy Bearington, the bipolar leader of the bear calvary.

Non-class Bearings:
Anthropomorphic black bear (SS217) level-drained once with both LA bought off
   +8str, +2dex, +4con, nat=2 bearbarian is favored class

immediately after first LA2 buyoff:
level-drained afflicted (brown bear) + bear quasilycanthrope
   +16str, +2dex, +8con, +2wis, nat+2 or =7, lowlight, scent, DR10/silver

Lastly get dire reincarnated into a dire bear as specifically allowed for humanoids in Drag Mag 100 4th page of web supplement.

Knowledge Focus(Handle Animal & Craft)
Skill Focus (Handle Animal) [flaw 1]
Mounted Combat [flaw 2]

Worship a bear idol to suit flavor.

Mantle of Rage is more optimal than bear totem (CC46) Barbearian 1 (improved grab instead of fast movement)

The Bear Build:

Soneblessed 3 (RoS123) which gives +2con. Entered via PMBC Prereq Handbook RAW early entry shenanigans
        Shape soulmeld (Broodkeeper's Heart) [DragMag350 86] feat

Beastmaster 1 ? Black bear

Druid 1 UA domain variant (madness domain [ECS107] via THE FURY!)

Ironsoul Forgemaster 10: [non-evil craft 8, know arc 2] +9 meldshaper levels
        Natural Bond for Black bear from Druid level
        Power Attack
        Share Soulmeld feat (MoI41) for spell-sharing mount and AC within 5'

Bear Warrior 5 [CW16] which gives +16str, +2dex, +8con instead of the +4str&con from rage
   Frantic rage (FoE 147) for that +16 as dex not str

A few other feats easily gotten via the PBMC Prereq Handbook's Free Feat Diet:
Shared Fury (RotW152) so that rage benefits Animal Companions
Wild Cohort
Mounted Fury
Improved Unarmed strike (if you want to fight with your bear hands)
Leadership: All cohorts and followers must be anthro-bears to ride in the bear calvary.

The Beary Total for the PC:
Anthropomorphic Black bear
Dire Reincarnated [DungMag100suppliment4]into a Dire bear
Brown bear Lycanthrope
Dire bear Quasilycanthrope
Wild Shape into Brown bear (via Wildshape Amulet and if needed Skin of Kaletor.)
If you really want Vow of Poverty to carry only the bear essentials), grab the Divine Minion template and another LA+2 template for level draining cheese.
Rage into Brown bear
Grizzly Claws feat
bear Fang feat (mutually exclusive with unarmed strike to fight with your bear hands) if you want, but not that owlbear feat – not cool enough.
Use your druid spellcasting to talk with all the bears.
Bite of the Were-bear Spell (via custom item with enough charges per day for your bear crew)
also via item Summon Nature's Ally IV To summon 1d4+1 black bears
Swarm subtype via Broodkeeper's Heart for a bear Swarm
Total Stats: +24str, +24dex, +22con, while raging, +2wis, nat=9

The total for the four minions starting first with the bear that is ridden:
Warbeast dire/Brown bear with Bite of the Were-bear meshed into the bear Swarm and turned into a Brown bear gaining its physical stats again thanks to Mounted Fury.

Wild cohort Dire/Polar bear with Bite of the Were-bear meshed into the bear Swarm. Note that if you do not want the swarming action, Silverwood Arcanist would benefit from Mounted Fury as well.

Beastmaster Brown bear Animal Companion with Bite of the Were-bear turning into a Brown bear and then gaining the swarm subtype to join the bear Swarm.

Druid Brown bear Animal Companion with Bite of the Were-bear turning into a Brown bear and then gaining the Swarm subtype to join the bear Swarm.

Remember that the PC and the bear minions are all in the triple swarm (easy by the squeeze rules). How's that for a kodiak moment?

Gulag Check (for gitp):
"From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent bear it away." Matthew 11:12

Not to polarize the discussion, but did I miss anything? :)

TL;DR = bearman direbear werebear dire-werebear bear beary bear swarm on bears.
No really you are a bear-man who becomes a bear and get's bit by a bear so he can tranform into a werebear. But he's already almost a dire werebear but he can transform into a bear again with a spell to make him more like a werebear (which he is) all while in a swarm of pet bears. And of course, you can be riding a bear or two if you want.

Offline PlzBreakMyCampaign

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1962
  • Immune to Critical Hits as a Fairness Elemental
    • View Profile
Re: PBMC Thread & Build Compendium
« Reply #18 on: January 15, 2015, 11:09:04 AM »
Build 13: Awakened Llamas. (Because you've always wanted to play The Emperor's New Groove in DnD). Bard class is optional, "Llama face" is not."

Add llama lama flavor to suit:

Brixashulty don't look like lamas after the head. Horns? I hate to say that the camel stats might be a closer fit.

So who would awaken a llama? Forrest-dwelling, tree-hugging druids are cliche. So looking up at the camel stats I found the war camel. Now there is an ally a druid might actually keep around but that isn't an animal companion (awakening that would invalidate it). It isn't too far-flung to say that out in the waste/high altitude there could be a druid with a party lama (druids hang with other T1 characters who dump str).

But its a pain to have someone lead around the Llama. Preparing speak with animals gets old. So at some point the druid maximize awakens it. Now we have the awakened war lama which becomes our PC (we assume the HD's stat boost went into wis):

50 speed, 2 1d6hooves, 1d4bite, lowlight vision, scent
+8str, +6dex, +8con, +8int, +2wis, -2cha, +4nat

Like most awakened normal domesticated creatures I assume an LA of 1. Remember you don't have any hands so either being a caster or a weapon-wielder will be difficult. Once sentient, some level drain is the best thing to cure the ECL woes. Going all the way down to 1 is needed to swap out for a class level if not using my balanced ECL variant.

Non-restoration would be tempting for an LA+2 dire version of a war camel llama. That one comic is almost enough motivation for me to make a dire version. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be much consistency on 'dire' changes. The whole point would be for a small 1RHD boost (as in dire ape) so all the RHD are good saves and the size bump because you know you want to play a giant war llama. The closest thing I could find is reverse engineered from the dire horse as follows:

+10 ms, +6str (+14 after size change), (-2dex), +6con (+10), +2wis (1 stat boost in wis, 1 in cha from the hd), +4cha, +3nat (+6). Throw in the dire bear's natural weapon bump if you want.

With my balance ECL variant makes the LA+2 dire war Llama:
60 speed, huge size, 2 2d6hooves, 1d8bite, lowlight vision, scent
+22str, +4dex, +18con, +8int, +4wis, +2cha, +10nat
7 'free' animal hit dice granting +5BAB, +5base saves, 7 levels of int+2 skill points with climb, listen, hide, move silent, spot, and survival as class skills.

Offline PlzBreakMyCampaign

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1962
  • Immune to Critical Hits as a Fairness Elemental
    • View Profile
Re: PBMC Thread & Build Compendium
« Reply #19 on: January 15, 2015, 11:09:26 AM »
Build 15: Do you want to have all the powerz+arcane spells but your DM rightly banned StP Erudite? Then step right up and plug in the "Easy Bake Psionics" onto your arcane caster. Enjoy the ride!

(click to show/hide)

Discipline Powers to look out for
(click to show/hide)

The Build
(click to show/hide)

101 SRD Powers Known
(click to show/hide)

Costing 7140xp
(click to show/hide)

I have the above split into downtime vs adventuring powers, as all psions should have their powers listed. But since we don't have pp problems (even without recharge infinite loops!), I don't feel the need to list them.

All the other powers you could know if your DM isn't smart enough to split main caster lists:
(click to show/hide)

The only powers you are missing almost always going to miss are
(click to show/hide)

And the following are Psywar-only, one of which we can snag with our psithief level (arcane bard -> psionic psy war progression):
(click to show/hide)

If you wanted to go 2 psy war, 2 lurk, 2 psy rogue for the 1st level powers, all that would be missing are:
(click to show/hide)

Do you want to pushing the build further? Taking Practiced Caster (yeah, the feat no one takes) or having a more than a minor bloodline allows you to, with early entry mystic theurge, get decent a divine caster side too! This would make your ML(1+1)+(1+10+4) or ML(1+1+2)+(1+10+2) Something like our above 3ECL+1wizard+1cleric+10MT+5Legacy Champion would grant 8ths from the major lists, still without any fast casting. For a DM who bans 9ths, you've got it all!